The Hating on Yaoi Fangirls

[Ariel Tsuki]

I dunno but it always annoyed me, but why does people think that most if not all yaoi fangirls are vapid bubbleheads? Granted that there ARE some, but it's not the majority. Just because I think two males characters from an anime that is NOT shounen-ai doesn't mean I think they're canon couple, I just like them together... and not every anime I see that I pair up two guys together.... although in my case, I tend to watch anime with alot of guy. LMAO XD. I mean yaoi fangirls are depicted as brain-dead idiots in the anime fandom for some reason when it's not really true.

So how you feel about this? Agree or disagree. Discuss.

[DazzleKitty]

I frequently visit this other forum that is a haven for yaoi fangirls, and I must say that some of them are quite immature. But a majority of them aren't. It's the few that are indeed morons that make us all look bad.

I don't think watching an anime because it has hot guys makes a fangirl stupid or anything. Look at all the fanboys who watch fanservice stuff or yuri for the pretty girls. They're just as 'shallow' as we are in that case. And, like fangirls, they also like to pair up noncanon couples (for yuri).

I watch tons of anime just for the cute guys. So what? Who really cares? I like them. If the story is bad, just looking at them makes it a little better. I also don't like to pair up guys in every anime, but there are LOTS of them where I do. So what? Why does that make me brain-dead? It's a fandom, and a heck of a lot of girls like it. If you pick a certain anime to watch just for the guys, I don't think that justifies anyone calling you shallow. One thing I do find a little irritating is when a fangirl refuses to try an anime because it has too many female characters. I think that is shallow.

The girls that push noncanon couples in your face as canon do tick me off. I think they are reading between the lines. But, I am not against noncanon couples at all. As a matter of fact, most of my favorite pairings consist of noncanon couples.

I can't wait to see a certain someone's response to this thread. I have a feeling this could be a prelude to another major flame-war....

[YaoiYaoiYeah]

I think we're just normal human being and our hobbie are as normal as playing tennis or listening to rock music. I really don't understand why people label us as bad or weird for liking what we like, I have been called 'disgusting' and 'sick' because of my nick. I got kicked out of some anime chatrooms the moment I got in. They don't even let me talk. =P They just say "Yaoi is sick" and knock me out before I can say anything. O.o Some people even used the f word and the b word to yell at me. >.< I must have received over 100 mails/reviews just because I call my self YaoiYaoiYeah. LoL.

I don't like people to label us just because we have a hobbie or interest that other poeple don't understand/care for.They think we're bad people when they don't even know us. All my Yaoi friends are very kind, nice and supportive. :)

There might be a couple Yaoi fans who is not very nice out there. But There are a lot of non-Yaoi fans out there that is not very nice too! Liking Yaoi doesn't make a person good or bad.


Besides, how can you be nice to someone who think you're dumb or bad when they don't try to get to know you first?

[Animematt55]

Must...resisit...urge....to.....flame... .fangirls....*SNAP*

[Midoriko87]

Hmm, yaoi fangirls...

Let's see, my main thing with yaoi fangirls (err fanboys, too, I guess...) is that they spread the yaoi everywhere. It's like, they've created this headless monster that knows no Limit. They take non-yaoi characters and place them in yaoi situtations. And, usually, it's the completely incompatible characters that they seem to mix. Maybe, I don't like my favourite straight characters being manipulated. The pictures...I don't mind as much, but the fiction...the fiction gets pretty bad, sometimes. Changing two straight (or one straight) heterosexual guy(s) into this yaoi entity will require the talents of a superb writer. Not even an average or good writer could really pull-it-off. And, imo, I just haven't seen a yaoi fangirl/boy on that level.

Or, maybe it's just an annoyance with yaoi, in general. I mean, imagine watching a series and thinking to yourself, "Damn, this storyline makes no sense, at all. Why are there no girls at this school? Is it an all-boy private school? Is every guy at this school gay or what? Hmm, that little one isn't all that cute, why is he being eye-humped by every guy in the general proximity? Oh I see, he's sleeping with his father!"

Or, maybe it's some of those Aarinfantasy reviews. There was this one particular yaoi title that received something like a 9 out of 10. That was like the breaking point for me. Just some horrible, unbelievable writing, and this tripe got a 9 out of 10!!! I think I lost faith in the average yaoi fangirl, on that day.

Or, maybe it's me. Maybe, I've been confusing shounen-ai and yaoi. Well, not confusing. Maybe I can't make the leap from guy/guy romance to guy/guy softcore porn. Maybe, I'm a little too crticial of those persons that enjoy bad storytelling and softcore gay porn. Still, not all yaoi is bad. And, not all yaoi fangirls are idiots. Maybe it's an extreme hatred (err disliking) of the hyper fangirl, in general.

[Leader Desslock]

...They take non-yaoi characters and place them in yaoi situtations. And, usually, it's the completely incompatible characters that they seem to mix.... the fiction...the fiction gets pretty bad, sometimes.
That's my main problem. I hate Out Of Character fanfic authors and artists as a general rule, but the length to which some authors will go to justify the most blatantly silly and useless OOC yaoi situations makes their work particularly loathesome to me.

There's plenty of real yaoi material out there; why **** up perfectly good non-yaoi material by talking about it like something it's not? What possible worth do you bring to a series like Naruto by talking about Naruto and Sasuke's "forbidden desires" or somesuch? It just ain't there. Get over it and go watch Gravitation or something if that's what you like. Geez. :rolleyes:

[DazzleKitty]

I don't really mind straight guys being 'turned' gay in fanfictions. Yes, it's not very realistic, but that's what the fandom is for. That's why it's FANfiction. The one thing I don't like is the atrocious amount of poorly written stories that are out there. There are so many OOC stories, poor spelling/grammar, stupid 'crack' stories, etc. Among all the rubbish, I do find some great stories.

A lot of people get annoyed by it, but I don't mind the slashing of anime like Naruto, YuGiOh, Gundam Wing, etc etc. I don't see how it actually screws up the anime for some people. You aren't being forced to read the fanfics. I can see the annoyance of them shoving it in your face and saying it's FACT that they are gay. But fanfics or wishful thinking....I don't see why that should bother anyone. I saw some guys talking about Kaleido Star on in the general discussion, and the yuri couples that could come from that show. I don't see anyone getting bent out of shape on that. I think the fanboys tend to target fangirls. I am not trying to pick sides,but I like to defend my fandom.

[Leader Desslock]

I don't really mind straight guys being 'turned' gay in fanfictions. Yes, it's not very realistic, but that's what the fandom is for. That's why it's FANfiction.
My point would be that if a person is such a FAN, then why don't they respect the characters that have been defined, rather than stealing the names "Naruto" and "Sasuke", then writing a story with those names that has nothing at all to do with the characters. I don't view those people as "fans"; they're unimaginative writers who couldn't think up the names for the fiction they actually wanted to write, so they dragged the names and situations kicking and screaming out of the last thing they saw, whether it's related or not.

As such, I find their fiction quite puerile and loathesome. It's quite possible that I might be able to respect their fiction it if they just used the names Steve and Bob and wrote the damned story they wanted to write in the first place, rather than mucking it up with characters that don't fit. But they don't, and so I gotta call it how I see it.

[Midoriko87]

I think I see what you mean. But, are you only referring to poorly written fics? If a story is kept in context with the anime, and the characters are very accurately in character, do you find those okay?

Just curious. :P I like discussing this stuff. Fun.

Well, Desslock is still here, so I guess he could answer this, but...Probably Not. Even if Sasuke is still all dark or whatever or Naruto is still all optimistic and junk, they'll still be placed in relationship that isn't plausible. Now, personally, I say that it could be pulled off by a great writer. But honestly, the entire storyline would have to changed to create this chemistry that isn't there. Like, Vegeta and Goku or somethin'. *Thinks* Hmm, I do believe I could make that happen. :lol: You guys know I'm kiddin'...not really. :P

[Animematt55]

I have noticed a HUGE surge in the number of yaoi manga now. I mean on the shelf, they proactically have its own section. It is crazy.....

I am in agreement with Desslock. These 'fans' bastardize the characters, and it is quite annoying.

[DazzleKitty]

I know. It's really awesome. ^_^

[Carmel]

It's like, they've created this headless monster that knows no Limit. They take non-yaoi characters and place them in yaoi situtations. And, usually, it's the completely incompatible characters that they seem to mix. Maybe, I don't like my favourite straight characters being manipulated. What I've always maintained is: don't like, don't read/watch it. Everyone is different and sees things differently. When there's a larger number of people that see something between two guys, or girls, that often means there's something to go on, even if most people will happily dismiss it as not meaning a thing in the big picture.

To have something against taking a favourite 'straight character' because they're being manipulated I find funny, who's to say they're straight? Is there a public announcement from the creator? :P Heck, I'm sure in a lot of cases they make more money keeping their preferences ambiguous. Isn't that what any kind of fan fiction is about; using your imagination to create situations to your liking, whether they have any kind of pairing?

EDIT: And the reason to take non-yaoi material is simple to my mind, most yaoi material involves short stories (lots of one volume manga, with very few manga going to double digits), also that yaoi series focus is the male characters relationships... non-yaoi series have a very substantial plot outside of that, with lots of other things going on besides the possible male/male interactions. It gives the story more life. I actually like a relationship that's more of a maybe then a certainty.

[Animematt55]

nah.....they need more sweet yuri (shoujo-ai), cause we all know Yuri > Yaoi ^_^

[April-san]

I know. It's really awesome. ^_^

I second that.

Yaoi. It's fun, exciting, new. Most fangirls authors will loose interest in a short time. Those that don't sometimes mature into great writers with enough constructive crit.

Non-cannon pairings don't bother me. I've been flamed enough over one of my favorites (Aoshi/Soujirou from Rurouni Kenshin). However, I really like a "good" story, where people are in character. For example, it took me a really long time to read a Heero/Duo Gundam Wing Fic. However, I did find a very talented writer who actually made me like this pairing.

[Chikyuu Senshi]

Yaoi fangirls are depicted as brain-dead idiots, yes. However, that statement is fairly justified. I'm talking about the girls that walk around the conventions with the Yaoi-paddles; I'm talking about the girls who spam the forums with "Zomg! Kurama X Hiei is teh secks!" I'm talking about every fangirl who has ever considered a person who dislikes yaoi to be homophobic. When this type of behavior is shown, a stereotype is made. It's the way the human mind works. Outlandish behavior tends to stand out more in our minds than what is considered normal behavior. I am a yaoi fan, but I consider myself to be very intelligent and a bit conservative in my actions. I do not mind when people think I'm a rabid fangirl because I know that is not true.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I dunno but it always annoyed me, but why does people think that most if not all yaoi fangirls are vapid bubbleheads?

Because it has been proven mathematically

X= any entertainment form

X + fan(boy/girl) = VB

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

Well...its all on how people look at it,yes a few may be foolish.But i can imagine most are just fans of the genre,i dont know too much about it,but i do hear some things.

[VidelCoolGirl]

I dunno but it always annoyed me, but why does people think that most if not all yaoi fangirls are vapid bubbleheads? Granted that there ARE some, but it's not the majority. Just because I think two males characters from an anime that is NOT shounen-ai doesn't mean I think they're canon couple, I just like them together... and not every anime I see that I pair up two guys together.... although in my case, I tend to watch anime with alot of guy. LMAO XD. I mean yaoi fangirls are depicted as brain-dead idiots in the anime fandom for some reason when it's not really true.

So how you feel about this? Agree or disagree. Discuss.

All the yoai fangirls I run into are squeeky girls who mutter "kawaii" even in their sleep. At SakuraCon, they showed Gravatation. Needless to say, when two guys kissed, the whole room went into a sonic boom squeel. And I couldnt even watch it because so many girls were talking all throught saying how hot one guy is and ect. I know not all yaoi fangirls are that way, but the ones I know, are.

[cve]

I had to comment on this thread. Yes, I am a fan of yaoi, but am also a professional *woman* in her field. I shy away from the fangirls who squee! over everything yaoi, and choose my BL friends to be of the same mindset.

That being said, I agree that most fanfiction is not the greatest reading out there. Still, I have found some good writers, and have befriended quite a few. I personally prefer original BL manga/anime, but I have nothing against pairing the boys in shounen manga--even the professional BL mangaka do it.

eg: Ayano Yamane and Yuzuha Ougi both drew BL doujinshi on the Slam Dunk manga before becoming professional BL mangaka. Kazuma Kodaka draws her own series and continues to draws BL doujinshi on Prince of Tennis and FMA charas under her K2 name. Not to mention the literally thousands of doujinshika who draw doujinshi by the ton on all their favourite charas in every single fandom. Are they to be slandered also? Or are only the English-speaking fans unliked?

[VidelCoolGirl]

Dont get me wrong, I went through my "Shounen-ai" phase, but I was nowhere near as crazy as most of them are. I was like "Ok, that was cute...now where's my Sailor Moon doujinshi?" I just read it to get more of a open mind as an anime fan. Most are like "BISHIIIIIEESSSS!!!11!!"

[Midoriko87]

Oh, this is gonna be funny as H-E-Double Hell.

What I've always maintained is: don't like, don't read/watch it. Everyone is different and sees things differently.

Well, excuse me, Ma'am (girl? old?) for giving a hoot...no, two hoots, about art. Hmm, yes, maybe someone should give the Venus de Milo a nice, large penis. Ooh, ooh, or fit the Mona Lisa with a Now-and-Later grill. Gosh and golly gee, maybe I should change The Last Supper to portray my dawg Jesus and the peeps gettin' tore up, smokin' Kryptonite and Chronic. Oh, let's not stop with paintings/scuptures. Oh, no no no, let's move into the Literature Department. Let's make Rodya into a effeminate, male prostitute looking for a good time. Of course, we're gonna have to make Sonya into the Virgin Mary. Hmm, Othello? Yeah, let's make him into a cranky, distrustful ol' white dude. Pygmalion? Hmm, has anyone ever considered that the play would be excellant if Eliza were already a perfect lady before she ever encountered Higgins and Colonel Pickering? Hmm, that's good stuff, ain't it? Blatant idiocy may not directly affect me, but I am deeply bothered by it. "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country." Hmm, what can you or I do? Beat them. Give them Art Appreciation classes.

When there's a larger number of people that see something between two guys, or girls, that often means there's something to go on, even if most people will happily dismiss it as not meaning a thing in the big picture.

Or, usually, a larger number of morons. No, no, that's not fair. Excuse me. You know what that something is? Two attractive guys. Still, it's the will of Him. Yes, every attractive man in the world must indulge in...yeah...I won't finish that train of thought.

To have something against taking a favourite 'straight character' because they're being manipulated I find funny, who's to say they're straight? Is there a public announcement from the creator? Heck, I'm sure in a lot of cases they make more money keeping their preferences ambiguous.

"Keeping their preferences ambiguous?" Hmm, didn't Michael Jackson say something or other along those lines. "I'm straight, but don't tell my gay fans that." Hmm, indeed. Yes, this is the case...sometimes. Other times, I'm assuming the creators believe that a fan will be able to tell the sexual orientation of a character without said character carrying a large neon sign, chanting, "I'm Straighter than a pair of parallel lines!" I mean, hmm, this character is saying that he's madly, utterly in-love with this female character. Hmm, I think what he means to say is: "I have a penchant for bishounen genitalia. Place me in a yaoi fanfic." Yeah... Sorry, maybe it's my nature to believe that a male character married to a woman may actually be straight. Of course, I'm out there...in the Ether.

[DazzleKitty]

Or, usually, a larger number of morons. No, no, that's not fair. Excuse me. You know what that something is? Two attractive guys. Still, it's the will of Him. Yes, every attractive man in the world must indulge in...yeah...I won't finish that train of thought.


I can see where you are coming from in response to Carmel, but sometimes the creators will insert things just to please the fangirls. Of course, that doesn't neccessarily mean anything is going on between them, it's just fanservice.

For some reason, this argument reminds me of those yaoi vs. yuri ones. Anti-noncanon couples vs pro-noncanon couples. I don't think either one of you is gonna convert the other, because they will still enjoy or dislike what they will.

I've one of those few fangirls who has never been to a convention before. I have yet to experience the terror of squealing, rabid fangirls. Sometimes they're bad enough online, so I wonder how bad they are in real life? Hah, one girl I talked to once said "they are just like they are in forums, but you can't scroll down the page to ignore them". Some of them can be quite irrational. I try to be mature, composed, and think logically. I don't want to come off as haughty, but I do think tons of them act immature. The worst ones tend to be the younger ones, around the ages of 13-16. But I've seen some 20+ year olds act just like them.

[Animematt55]

I thin ki agree with Midori for once. I mean come on girls, stop messing with peoples art.
I only like Canon couples (HarukaXMichiru, the FAKE guys (hated the manga though), etc.) Dont pull inuyasha and sesshomaru in to a couple.....

[Carmel]

I'm not quite sure why you're taking everything I said out of context, but whatever, I'll reply to anyway.

About art, art is just that, it is an expression. I don't see any bounds with art, so I don't understand any of your examples, if people are not taking the actual original art piece and changing it, when by all means, I'm not going to hold something against someone for being creative and playing around with a concept, there's plently of class that do just that.

Now you're calling people a large number of morons (no matter if you took it back a second later or not) because their opinion differ from your own? Right.

If the character has a girlfriend or something of similar value I don't think they should be stuck with another guy, never did, that's just shallow. But, for tons of shounen series, they don't have just that... and that's where the all the doujinshi come from.

[earsofdoom]

I've probably mentioned my Yaoi fangirl friends at one time or another on this forum (whom shall remain nameless for obvois reason's) though they can get annoying sometimes they are "positive" fan's, the ones you gotta watch out for are the ones that watch an anime series just so that they can write Yaoi fanfic's about it and stuff like that, and the ones that think EVERY male character is gay. i myself don't like yaoi but i won't hate on fan's of it just becouse i don't like it. (although.... some fangirl's kinda make me want to... plz honest fan's help these peaple) some fan's ive seen are really odd though.... I've always been puzzled by why some fan's love bishie's and REALLY effeminate looking guys, but there was this one manga about these guy's who dressed up like girl's.... and the girl's reading it where BIG yuri basher's. so they'll read about Yoai guys who dress (and look) like girls but they won't watch a yuri like kannaduki or marimite.... so confused.

[DazzleKitty]

I thin ki agree with Midori for once. I mean come on girls, stop messing with peoples art.
I only like Canon couples (HarukaXMichiru, the FAKE guys (hated the manga though), etc.) Dont pull inuyasha and sesshomaru in to a couple.....


Who really even gives a crap, Matt. Is someone holding a gun to your head and telling you to read the fanfiction? It's not like they are making a profit off of this or anything, so why do you care? Is the existance of the noncanon couples affecting your life? Is it killing you?

I don't get what you guys mean by 'messing with the art'. Doujinshi also messes with the art, yet so many people own them. I don't see how fanfiction really destroys anything, really. It's like I said, no one is forcing you to read them. Let those who enjoy reading and writing them do their thing.

[Midoriko87]

For some reason, this argument reminds me of those yaoi vs. yuri ones. Anti-noncanon couples vs pro-noncanon couples. I don't think either one of you is gonna convert the other, because they will still enjoy or dislike what they will.

Convert? Yeah...that's never gonna happen. Believe me, I know that's a very difficult thing to do. I've been trying for over a month to convince people to watch Gravitation. Still, I'll keep on keepin' on. Oneday...oneday.

I'm not quite sure why you're taking everything I said out of context, but whatever, I'll reply to anyway.

Wow, I'm so terribly sorry. Please, forgive me. I didn't realize that you weren't basically implying that if a character isn't openly in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex or if said character's sexual preference wasn't revealed by the OC that automatically leaves his/her orientation open. Hmm, I mean if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, da Hell if it isn't a chicken. Out there...in the Ether. And, bastardization doesn't have to well...bastardize the original. You're basic yaoi-writer is taking a character (which they, in some cases, claim to adore) that she (he) knows darn tootin' isn't gay, and changing him. Of course, it's art... Artistic visi... Can I stop now? All I would ask of the gifted, young prodigy is that he/she takes the "fan" out of "fanfiction" whilst writing his/her magnum opus.


Now you're calling people a large number of morons (no matter if you took it back a second later or not) because their opinion differ from your own? Right.

Oh my, that is a bit of a pickle. Dang, I hate it when people get the wrong impression of me. Listen, I NEVER TOOK IT BACK. That "No, no, I apologize" and "excuse me" needed intonation. See, should've took my own advice, and used exclamation points. And, you know why I called a large number of persons morons to begin with? Well, I was responding to this: "When there's a larger number of people that see something between two guys, or girls, that often means there's something to go on..." Imo, in my mind, that line sounded somethin' like...hmm, I'll use an example, "Well, a lot of people believe that Intelligent Design is a legitmate Science course. Obviously, there's somethin' that honest-to-goodness biologists are missing." So, the morons bit was me saying, "Yeah, they could all be having this *****in' epiphany, or they may just be a couple of idiots." Hmm...Curioser and curioser.

[Animematt55]

Convert? Yeah...that's never gonna happen. Believe me, I know that's a very difficult thing to do. I've been trying for over a month to convince people to watch Gravitation. Still, I'll keep on keepin' on. Oneday...oneday.

EDIT: Holy Deuce, Carmel responded. Oh boy, I'll be right back. :P

I have been meanign to get that and Kyou Kara Mahou. But i havent even watched any anime in a while. Plus anime selection here sucks now that Media Play is gone....

And Dazzlekitty, i mean what Midoriko ment. You might as well go deface a painting or change a great novel. I dont mind some slight OOC stuff, but when you change a whole characters sexuality, that is pretty big there. Fanfics are pretty low on the list, but still on the list none the less.

[DazzleKitty]

I think you guys are overreacting when comparing fanfics to actually defacing a painting or novel. It's not like you actually do it. It doesn't change the anime/manga at all.

Meh, I suck at arguing. I need my NyQuil.

[VidelCoolGirl]

I think what we're all trying to say is that some yaoi fangirls are crazy manga cows, the rest are fine. Nuf said.

[Midoriko87]

I think what we're all trying to say is that some yaoi fangirls are crazy manga cows, the rest are fine. Nuf said.

Hmm, Videl stepping in to stop a potential fight. Don't worry, I use a lot...a whole lot...of sarcasm, but 'tis all in jest. Or, to get my point across. Never out of Hatred or Rage or Anger or Stuff. "With great understanding of literary devices comes great responsiblity." Hmm, is that Personal Philosophies thread, still around? An awesome philosophy, if I do say so myself. Hmm, on the subject of literary devices...D-I-G-R-E-S-S-I-O-N, Digression.

[Schuldich]

I think what we're all trying to say is that some yaoi fangirls are crazy manga cows, the rest are fine. Nuf said.
Yeah - pretty much this sums it up.

And i have to say - Midoriko you're really reaching with your responses here. A 13 year old girl posting a fic about the characters she likes on a small yaoi website that no one will read is not the same as actually defacing the Venus de Milo. She is not affecting the original story, she is not putting a gun to the author's head telling him/her to change the original story, and if you were to pick up a copy of the original story you would not see her work. her writing a fic is definitely not ruining it for others, unless you choose to read the whole thing and then get pissed that you didn't like it. If i see a fic that looks like it's a piece of crap i just don't read it....i don't complain that some 13 girl ruined the whole show for the world.

also - i must add that no one EVER complains about people pairing up characters on TV if they're straight....and like anime no one actually comes out and says they're straight, it's just assumed...much like it's assumed that anime characters aren't gay.

For example....i want Bones and Booth to be together, and i'm sure if i said so i would probably never hear any crap because people would think "well who knows what's going to happen?". i wanted Joey to have a chance with Rachel. same situation. and, in fact, sooo many people wanted to have Spike and Buffy get together that Joss Whedon not only kept him around past the 2nd season but made a portion of the 6th season where they boinked tons of times...and this was based SOLEY on fans reactions to the characters.

so...all in all...fangirls can be annoying, and high-pitched, and irrational, but if your biggest complaint is that they're ruining fandom simply because they write fantasy stories in their spare time then you better think up a better argument.

[VidelCoolGirl]

Hmm, Videl stepping in to stop a potential fight.

Don't I always? I just hate seeing senseless violence.

And with all due respect, fanfiction I usually wont read if it's a couple that is completly absurd. My view of a good fanfiction writer is one that can keep the personalities of teh actual anime characters, as they are in the anime, so you can say, "Yeah, I can see ___ saying that." For example, seeign a fic with Tomo and Chiyo going on a "romantic vacation" together, I can't see it happening when I see the anime, and if it's too far-fetched in the fic, I usually don't read it.

I have read a lot of crazy *** fics that make no sense though, but I'd rather read really good ones.

[Midoriko87]

I'm really reaching? Don't you people have any principles? I blame it on the parents!!! Bastardom is Bastardom. It should affect everyone, even if it doesn't affect everyone. I don't care if the kid is 5, she knows darn well that Roy and Ed shall never have "adult relations." That's another thing, it's usually the characters that don't see eye-to-eye. "God, you the annoy the Hell outta me, but that's why I want you soooo badly!" It's like, so black that you're blue...or so unfunny that it's funny...

also - i must add that no one EVER complains about people pairing up characters on TV if they're straight....and like anime no one actually comes out and says they're straight, it's just assumed...much like it's assumed that anime characters aren't gay.

Yes, I do. I'm complaing 24/7 about incompatible TV characters being paired. Well, I would be if anyone actually paired TV characters in fiction. And, am I only one that thinks it's crazy that everyone just has to openly say they're straight. I mean, why would anyone say such a thing, unless he's a guy staying at the YMCA. Then again, why would a straight guy being staying at the YMCA? Damn that catchy party tune!!! Actions speak louder than words.


For example....i want Bones and Booth to be together, and i'm sure if i said so i would probably never hear any crap because people would think "well who knows what's going to happen?". i wanted Joey to have a chance with Rachel. same situation. and, in fact, sooo many people wanted to have Spike and Buffy get together that Joss Whedon not only kept him around past the 2nd season but made a portion of the 6th season where they boinked tons of times...and this was based SOLEY on fans reactions to the characters.


Totally different. From what I know of these characters, they, AT LEAST, had a chance together. Shoot, from the way things were going, I kinda figured Spike and Buffy would end-up, together. And, there is a good number of yaoi fanfics, in which characters are paired, and the author cannot honestly say, "I saw something. There was chemistry." There's a difference between implied chemistry and something out-of the-blue. Of course, while all my friends were watching Friends in Middle School and high school, I was watching Sex and the City. Pfft...Friends.

[Leader Desslock]

also - i must add that no one EVER complains about people pairing up characters on TV if they're straight...
I find fanfic authors who romantically pair up Kuno and Nabiki (a straight couple) just as loathesome as folks who pair up Akane and Shampoo or Ranma and Ryoga. Straining the narrative structure to accomodate OOC relationships is bad writing, no matter what gender the participants happen to be.

[VidelCoolGirl]

Actually, yeah, It doesnt matter who the people are as long as it will make sense. Crossover fics with Ranma and Ichino from Battle Atheltes? No.

[Milky Mixer]

Thought I'd chime in with my twelve cents, having just returned from Anime Central in Chicago and been witness to the yaoi fangirls prowling about the Windy City.

As a 30 year old gay man, I find the Yaoi Fangirl stuff totally bizarre. At AC, I attended both a yaoi panel as well as the latenight screening of Sensitive Pornograph... and both were full of girls screaming and gushing, so much so that the panel became less of a panel and more of a "let's howl at dirty anime pictures" and all talk at the same time so loudly that there is no discussion. And SensiPorn's subtitles were the only way to know there was an actual story going on because there was so much hysteria and clamor in the audience. Personally, as someone who has endured harassment about being gay and grown up gay in the conservative midwest, who has gone through the fear and hardship of coming out to parents and friends, and who has had gay relationships, it's completely strange to sit in a room full of women getting all wound up and excited and happy over homosexual SEXUAL relationships. Truly. Do I understand it? No. Do I need to? Probably not. Is it cool? Sorta. Am I asking, "What do you know about being gay?" Kinda. And before anyone has to point it out, yes, I know that yaoi is largely created by women for women. I'll also interject that both (original) creator and audience are Japanese women, and there are likely some cultural differences that may influence why Japanese woman like yaoi vs. why American women like yaoi. Maybe that's not what this discussion is about, but I thought I'd point it out nonetheless.

Like I said, a very odd experience. At Sensitive Pornograph, the girl behind me kept getting all excited and saying "Yes, yes, buttsex, buttsex!" over and over, and I lept thinking "OMG, what does this girl know about gay sex? Why does this make her so freakin' happy?" Admittedly, she can have anal sex with the partner of her choice, but not being male, she's certainly never going to know what it's like to have gay male sex. I hope I'm not being too vulgar for this forum, but it does say "adult audiences" or something and I am trying to keep things as tasteful as I can. Still, my point is, why is she so enthusiastic about it? Can someone please explain...

Another thing I don't "get" are the fangirls who tried to explain to their non-yaoifan friends who they pulled along to these events, that they like yaoi because "it's so funny." Is this what the yaoi fandom is really thinking, because I overheard more than one person say this. Should I, as a gay male, be insulted that gay relationships are "so funny" to this massive fanbase of young women, or am I just lumping everyone in with the folks who made these types of comments. Again, maybe there is a "wall" between a gay male yaoi/BL reader/watcher and a straight female (or gay female) yaoi/BL reader/watcher. Maybe we are all "getting" something different out of the material and coming to it for different reasons. For me, it's amazing to be able to walk into your everyday bookstore and find comics about gay men... as a teenager, this was something I never thought would be possible. Now the teenagers of today probably think this is no big deal, but the world has done some changin' in the last 15 years. I would think that if yaoi girls liked yaoi because it was simply "so funny," the joke would eventually get old and they'd move on to liking something else...? But the genre endures, so I'm hoping that there's more to the fandom than the joke of two men kissing, holding each other, loving each other...

And both the panel and screening were 18+ crowds, where folks were carded before being let in. I thought these crowds were a little crazy, especially given that most were not (or shouldn't have been) teenagers (no offense intended to the teens here, but grown ups are supposed to act more "grown up" than teens). But I guess you get a bunch of people together who are fans of the same thing, and fans of what admittedly is not something "mainstream," and they're probably going to cheer and hollar as a way of bonding in their fandom.

Out in the rest of the con, it was commonplace to see tribes of girls carrying their yaoi paddles. What bugged me though were the 13 year olds in the dealer's room rushing about saying "Yaoi yaoi yaoi yaoi!" over and over as they flocked to the doujinshi booths or came across something that was decidedly NOT yaoi (you know, like Loveless, which has its own strange BL-lovin' going on but is nothing like Sensitve Pornograph). As a person who is actually old enough to buy doujinshi (credit must be given to the folks who checked ID), I admit I did want to pick some of these little girls up and set them aside so I could do some shopping.

I don't know, I go back and forth... Are screaming yaoi fangirls who are totally mystified by gay male relationships and obsessively crush over them a tad on the annoying side? You bet. Is it cool to have a younger generation so open to gay romance? Sure is. I have to wonder, though, how many yaoi fangirls would have the same reaction to real life gay men and gay couples. At what point does the yaoi fandom stop - is it simply in 2D fictitious universes? Or are yaoi fangirls a step towards acceptance of gay male romance in other genres (live action moves, novels, tv) and real life?

Oh, and about slash/fanfic: I have to agree with DazzleKitty and Carmel, I really don't get what the big deal is... If you don't like it, no one's making you read it. It shouldn't at all affect your enjoyment of the canon pairings and storylines. Let fans have their fun, let them be expressive... let them post their stuff all over the internet if it keeps them out of the way at the doujinshi booth! Personally, I've been wanting to do a BL fanfic about Batou from Ghost in the Shell... I know, I know, he's not exactly your average bishonen, but there's just something about him. And in a world where people can trade genders as easily as they trade braincases, where new identities can be created in cyberspace, and where macho Batou's romantic feelings for the Major are countered by him making comments to her about her "getting a male body," this yaoi fanboy can go to town with the fanfic all he wants...

[VidelCoolGirl]

.......................Honestly, best damn argument here. Maybe becasue most girls wonder "Just how do guys do it and all?" Or to satisfy their wonders about gay sex, they find their paradise in yaoi. But I still dont get the squeels.

[Carmel]

I think you guys are overreacting when comparing fanfics to actually defacing a painting or novel. It's not like you actually do it. It doesn't change the anime/manga at all.
I can see where you are coming from in response to Carmel, but sometimes the creators will insert things just to please the fangirls. Of course, that doesn't neccessarily mean anything is going on between them, it's just fanservice.
That's was what I was getting at, with both of your points. :)

Midoriko87, I'm not going to bother arguing with you. Where I don't care if people can be creative and have some fun with doujinshi or art or fan fiction; whether it be construing a character to be in a yaoi, yuri or hetro situation (I'm not being forced to look at the stuff, so why should I?), you seem to go to great lengths proclaiming how wrong it is while using exaggerated examples of what I'm saying.

[Midoriko87]

Midoriko87, I'm not going to bother arguing with you. Where I don't care if people can be creative and have some fun with doujinshi or art or fan fiction; whether it be construing a character to be in a yaoi, yuri or hetro situation (I'm not being forced to look at the stuff, so why should I?), you seem to go to great lengths proclaiming how wrong it is while using exaggerated examples of what I'm saying.

Arguing with me? M'kay... But, you do realize that I finished-up our conversation a good 8 or so posts back, right? In any case, Light Speed!

Like I said, a very odd experience. At Sensitive Pornograph, the girl behind me kept getting all excited and saying "Yes, yes, buttsex, buttsex!" over and over, and I lept thinking "OMG, what does this girl know about gay sex? Why does this make her so freakin' happy?" Admittedly, she can have anal sex with the partner of her choice, but not being male, she's certainly never going to know what it's like to have gay male sex. I hope I'm not being too vulgar for this forum, but it does say "adult audiences" or something and I am trying to keep things as tasteful as I can. Still, my point is, why is she so enthusiastic about it? Can someone please explain...

First, the contents of this paragraph are friggin' awesome. Now, the question. Maybe it's the whimsicality. Or, playing with fire. American Pie...the kid trying to watch the blocked Pay-Per-View porn channel...there's somethin' happening there and a few noises...Yup, playing with fire. Human Curiosity. Or the lack of females. I'm telling you people, women unconsciously hate all other women. Okay, a little far-fetched, but seemingly logical.

[ShanceChance]

I do not mind yaoi. It's a genre. It has fans. It's not harming anyone. Heck, some of it is hot stuff.


However, I find most of the fandom to be complete morons. That's the main reason I've shyed more away from the yaoi fandom and more into the hentai fandom. Now, I'm not going to say that all yaoi fangirls are idiots. I've met many who are mature and sensible. However, I am sorry for these nice ladies/women because there fandom is so full of morons.

I can name 6 reasons off the top of my head.


1) They are needlessly loud. I have hearing problems. Hearing screaming is not pleasant to me. One girl just told me to not go to cons if noise bothers me. Buzz. Wrong. The only areas at cons where I've had to put up with such high-pitched screaming are areas where yaoi fangirls roam. There's also a lot of loud noises at the J-Pop dances, but the music is the entire point there, so that doesn't count.

2) Their nature to squirm when someone says something against their beloved hobby. Someone dislikes yaoi? Big deal. Get over it. Disliking yaoi does not necessarily make someone a homo'phobe or a sexist pig. If you want people to respect the fact that you like yaoi, why not try respecting the fact that they don't?

3) The "pride" crap. Liking yaoi is liking to watch or read about anime/manga males snuggling and having sex. Period. If you think liking yaoi means you support gay pride and helps you understand what life is as a real homosexual, you're sadly mistaken. Yaoi is fantasy, and it's written/drawn to appeal to heterosexual women. Saying your liking yaoi means you support gay pride is no different than a heterosexual male saying his live-action lesbian porn does the same, or that the cheap smutty romance novels they sell at the local pharmacy give advice on healthy sexual lifestyles.

4) The denial of male/male sex being porn. I've had yaoi fangirls who I know masturbate while reading stories of Guy A slipping the burning hotdog into Guy B's bun tell me that the fact I like hentai and yuri is disgusting, but their hobby is just a-okay because if it's two males it's art and not pr0n.

5) The misogynism. I am so sick of seeing female characters bashed for stupid reasons. Don't tell me that the hatred is justified because the characters are whiney, can't survive without a man, and don't mind being abused if it comes to their man. That is a lame reason, especially when so many "uke" characters act the same way, often worse.

6) The complete lack of decency some of them have. I am so sick of these girls at cons who want absolutely everything to be "yaoi" and slipping little perverted remarks in all the comments they shout out when there are children in the room. I am sick of how this behavior is tolerated, while a man acting similarly about his hobbies (such as yuri or hentai) would be considered a perverted jerk. You can be a pervert of any trade, but letting the rest of the world know of your fantasies has its time and place. That time and place is not somewhere where there are 7-year olds.

[Samurai Drifter]

^I pretty much agree with that.

But there are a lot of perverted/annoying anime fans in general, too.

[Soluzar]

I find fanfic authors who romantically pair up Kuno and Nabiki (a straight couple) just as loathesome as folks who pair up Akane and Shampoo or Ranma and Ryoga. Straining the narrative structure to accomodate OOC relationships is bad writing, no matter what gender the participants happen to be.

I couldn't agree more. It's just not conceivable that Nabiki would ever regard Kuno with anything more than a mixture of indifference, pity, and contempt. In the same way, it's usually hard to imagine most straight characters having a homosexual relationship all of a sudden. Despite the fact that he gets boobies when he gets wet, Saotome Ranma has a fairly strong straight male identity. I'd even say he's probably a trace homophobic, due to his special circumstances.

[Schuldich]

I totally agree with everything ShanceChance has said....especially #4. I know girls like to keep their pure white image, but if you're watching people have sex, and you're getting turned on, you're watching porn. end of story.

i wanted to add something to that list if i may:
7) The idea that it's their personal goal to convert people to watch yaoi...and not just BL, but yaoi. i get it - you watch gay porn, and it turns you on...why do you have to tell everybody? and why do you have to convert your 8 year old cousins!?!? every time that i read about some fangirl "converting her 8 year old cousin this weekend into watch yaoi - it was so cute!11!" it makes me want to scream. yes, that's great for society...getting children to watch porn. they might watch porn eventually, but you don't have to encourage them and start them off so young.
i also hate why they have to share it likes it's something to be proud of. not that it's something to be ashamed of, but it's not something everyone should know about you. i just had this argument over at aarin's page because someone posted a topic "why do you hide it from your parents?" well why the hell would i tell them? "guess what mom and dad, your 23 year old youngest daughter spends her time late at night watching getting turned on by gay porn rather than watching the news, or something useful." yeah...that'd go over great. just because you think it's the best thing ever doesn't mean it's appropriate to share with the world.

and apparently i have to throw this in so there's no confusion - i have no problem with fans talking to fans about it. that's what forums and friends with common interests are for.

[Animematt55]

Brilliant SHance! Especially number 4. I mean, like half the guys i know are gay, I don't care that they have sex with other guys. But i dont want to hear or see it (they sure aint the pretty yaoi boys, lol). I dont even want to see too real females go at it. Thats why i like anime/art pictures, it is art, and people look A LOT better in it.

I should let these yaoi fangirls meet soem of my gay friends. Hehe, big hairy guys, that like leather. Put THAT into your yaoi fantasy.

[Milky Mixer]

I should let these yaoi fangirls meet soem of my gay friends. Hehe, big hairy guys, that like leather. Put THAT into your yaoi fantasy.

Um, can I put that in MY yaoi fantasy? Not the leather though...

[VidelCoolGirl]

It seems like being "gay" is being pushed into everyones face. Like right now, I'm at the library, and theres a gay and lesbian magazine called the Advocate. The cover says "How gay is Superman?"

[Milky Mixer]

It seems like being "gay" is being pushed into everyones face. Like right now, I'm at the library, and theres a gay and lesbian magazine called the Advocate. The cover says "How gay is Superman?"

The Advocate is a gay/lesbian news magazine that has been around for years and years and years. I would hardly call having a copy at the library (of all places) being "pushed into everyone's face." I mean, when I am at the supermarket and there's Cosmo and GQ and whatever else in the checkout line, I don't say "Gee, the straight people sure are pushing their straightness into everyone's face" or Essence magazine on the news stand pushing "blackness into everyone's face." When I watch tv, odds are every commercial break I'm going to have "straight relationships pushed into my face." I don't see why having gay magazines or gay tv shows is so off-putting to some people... you don't like it, you don't have to read or to watch. I'd hardly say putting out a gay news magazine for gay readers is hurting you or shoving anything in your face though.

[VidelCoolGirl]

I read your post and I realize how bad it sounded. So sorry for any offence, they way you took it is not the way I meant it.

Actually, I work at the library, so I have to see the magazine. I dont mind it at all. They did a article on anime, completly wrong, but cool nonetheless. Also, I didnt mean in the way you said. I really dont care about a persons sexual prefence, if so, I wouldnt post in this topic. I MEAN it seems like a lot of people shove it in yoyr face to accept them, when truly most people have. I was just saying, most of the yaoi fangirls I meet, are like "you have to read this, and you have to see this." When I say I rather not like yaoi, they freak out and wont stop bothering me until I tell them why. In that manner, I feel like its being forced into me, and that Advocate magazine, I just kinda dislike how everything can have some gay tint to it. It's superman, he's a superhero, why try to bring in How gay he is? It's a movie! With nothing to do with gay people or anything!

To be honest though, I can see where this thread is going and it's not good, I think it needs to be closed before it gets out of hand.

[Animematt55]

The media always portrays anime wrong. They either go too extreme, or get words wrong, characters wrong....it is insane.

and NO they come with the leather or not at all!!!

[Milky Mixer]

I read your post and I realize how bad it sounded. So sorry for any offence, they way you took it is not the way I meant it.

Actually, I work at the library, so I have to see the magazine. I dont mind it at all. They did a article on anime, completly wrong, but cool nonetheless. Also, I didnt mean in the way you said. I really dont care about a persons sexual prefence, if so, I wouldnt post in this topic. I MEAN it seems like a lot of people shove it in yoyr face to accept them, when truly most people have. I was just saying, most of the yaoi fangirls I meet, are like "you have to read this, and you have to see this." When I say I rather not like yaoi, they freak out and wont stop bothering me until I tell them why. In that manner, I feel like its being forced into me, and that Advocate magazine, I just kinda dislike how everything can have some gay tint to it. It's superman, he's a superhero, why try to bring in How gay he is? It's a movie! With nothing to do with gay people or anything!

Maybe he's taken a liking to Jimmy Olsen?

I agree, to an extent, that the gay media likes to "gay things up" that aren't necessarily gay. Of course, I don't read the Advocate (or any gay mags, really... I like to think I'm more complicated than some of the one-sided, shallow gayness of those mags... come to think of it, I don't really read any straight mags either). I haven't seen that issue. But perhaps they have an interview with the actor playing Superman and, as a gay publication, asked him some gayish questions... thus the headline, How Gay Is Superman? After all, they are marketing to a gay audience who may have a thing for guys in spandex and capes... Just putting it out there for consideration.

No one should be forced to like/read anything they have no interest in. Just as no one should be denied access to like/read anything they do have an interest in. How's that? And now we can get off of the Advocate and back to yaoi.

FYI, though, as a gay man I notice that yaoi has become a blanket term for things like Queer as Folk. Um, QaF is not yaoi. Brokeback Mountain is not yaoi. Anne Rice books are not yaoi.

[Milky Mixer]

The media always portrays anime wrong. They either go too extreme, or get words wrong, characters wrong....it is insane.

and NO they come with the leather or not at all!!!

The media pretty much portrays EVERYTHING wrong.

[VidelCoolGirl]

FYI, though, as a gay man I notice that yaoi has become a blanket term for things like Queer as Folk. Um, QaF is not yaoi. Brokeback Mountain is not yaoi. Anne Rice books are not yaoi.

Trus tme on that, I know what you're talking about. Naruto x Sasuke = Yaoi Two dudes in Brokeback Mountain = Not Yaoi

[cve]

OK, how about this? The House of Morecock: animated gay porn, NOT Japanese animated. (I honestly don't know who distributes it, a friend gave me the disc)

Main chara Jonas Morecock getting screwed by every **** he meets....and loving every minute of it...I guess he's your typical animated boy-hoe. :huh: Interesting to watch, but definitely NOT anime..it's like your average Saturday morning cartoons turned into explicit gay porn. ;) Funny to watch, but not really to my yaoi-fanwoman tastes.

Yaoi or no? Only Japanese based material can be considered BL/yaoi?

[VidelCoolGirl]

That just goes into can there be american anime and such. I don't consider it porn since it's animated, but that while american thing comes in. Lets just say that it's porn, but american porn. And therefore, not yaoi.

[Milky Mixer]

Well, if the definition of yaoi is comics and anime created by Japanese women for a female Japanese audience, then no, it's not anime.

I believe House of Morecock is based on a comic or creation of an American male. Just like QaF.

[ZoharContact]

I mean, when I am at the supermarket and there's Cosmo and GQ and whatever else in the checkout line, I don't say "Gee, the straight people sure are pushing their straightness into everyone's face" or Essence magazine on the news stand pushing "blackness into everyone's face." When I watch tv, odds are every commercial break I'm going to have "straight relationships pushed into my face."
EDIT: By the time I posted, I realized that the topic had long since passed. Feel free to ignore whatever I have to say. -_-;

Very, very good point. Present company accepted (not really talking about fellow members of the forum in the following), but straight/white people often feel that every minority is constantly pushing its agenda on them, all the while remaining ignorant of the overwhelming presence of their race/orientation in most media (http://www.infinitematrix.net/faq/essays/noles.html). Also, when a homosexual person comes out to a group of straight friends, or when a black person is in the company of white people, they are automatically (even with no malicious intent whatsoever) branded with some sort of label. Also... caucasians often don't see the irony of crayons made in their skin tone being labeled "flesh" color. It's a phenomenon that some people like to call "color blindness."

The "family protection" initiatives, similarly, are sustained by the idea that gay people are pushing their orientation on everyone else... not the other way around.

I'm also of the opinion that people should be able to write what they want. I live in America, after all. I'd like to maintain the fleeting, happy vision that I live in a free country. Also, I'm not sure that people who download anime should be telling fanfic writers how disrespectful they're being to the art form.

I've also been to yaoi screenings at anime cons that were so loud, I could not concentrate enough to read the subtitles. Yes... some yaoi fangirls are annoying.

[Merryl]

I'm sure someone will give me the exact definition of yaoi before i can find it<_<...
I do happen to own some books that are japanese manga and do say they are yaoi ... so far I don't see anything yaoi about them.
The characters barely hug more than a couple times each novel.
Does that mean hugging is gay now too??
The next thing you know people will sue each other for intermingling "air bubble space" :lol:
Anywho....

I've go a cat fight breaker to share with you that's quimsical :naughty:
http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/column/smith/index.php?ntid=83461&ntpid=2

[same_animefan]

My point would be that if a person is such a FAN, then why don't they respect the characters that have been defined, rather than stealing the names "Naruto" and "Sasuke", then writing a story with those names that has nothing at all to do with the characters. I don't view those people as "fans"; they're unimaginative writers who couldn't think up the names for the fiction they actually wanted to write, so they dragged the names and situations kicking and screaming out of the last thing they saw, whether it's related or not.

As such, I find their fiction quite puerile and loathesome. It's quite possible that I might be able to respect their fiction it if they just used the names Steve and Bob and wrote the damned story they wanted to write in the first place, rather than mucking it up with characters that don't fit. But they don't, and so I gotta call it how I see it.

Alright here, I don't want to start a fight so that's clear, but I am insulted with your comment on fanfiction writers being unimaginitive and basterdsizing a series. That is untrue. If you don't like fanfiction then don't read it and don't bash it, back on the same level of bashing Yuri/Yaoi because you don't like it. fanfiction is there for the fans who, having an idea for a story of their own WITH the charactors, to write and have fun.

When I write and i'm watching a series or I see something cute and I start thinking "what if..." and there is the story idea. It isn't that fanfiction writers can't write their own stories,plot lines, and charactors, (I can and do) But it's that they have an Idea in their head for the characters of the show.

I have to ask, do you also think stories with canon couples are "loathsome"? Or even a het story with a non-cannon couple?

I admit there is some really bad fanfiction out there, but there are also some really good stories with great plots of their own who keep the characters acting like themselves and develop relationships nicely.

Also, if the writer wasn't a "fan" of the series they wouldn't be inspired to write anything with those characters in the first place, thus throwing your "They aren't fans" theory out the window.

[Soluzar]

I have to ask, do you also think stories with canon couples are "loathsome"? Or even a het story with a non-cannon couple?
The important part is that it should be believable. Take Ranma 1/2 for example. Pairing male Ranma off with anyone female is believable. He has about a million girls anyway. Even a Mary-Sue story would be believable to a certain extent. Having Ramna be sensible and mature about their relationship would be out of character. Having the relationship work out, or lead to sex would be out of character. Having Ranma be involved in a homosexual relationship would be way out of character.

That's how it works for me. If you were to write a yaoi fanfic involving (for example) Shinji from Evangelion, that would be somewhat believable, since the character has shown some small leanings toward same-sex attraction. If you were to write a yaoi fanfic involving a character who has shown none of those inclinations, then it's out of character for them.

If you're having to make the characters do things they wouldn't normally do, then you're not giving any respect to those characters. Your "what if" should spring naturally from the characters and the setting, rather than from your own personal fantasies.

[Leader Desslock]

Let's separate out the two issues:

1) OOC fanfic authors
2) the subgroup of OOC fanfic authors who write Yaoi/Yuri fanfics

With point #1:

I am insulted with your comment on fanfiction writers being unimaginitive and basterdsizing a series. That is untrue.
No, what is untrue is your representation of my comment out of context. I didn't say that fanfiction writers were unimaginative. I happen to enjoy some fanfiction, and some of it's written quite well. What I said was OOC fanfic authors who bend characters and situations out of shape to fit a story, rather than simply writing an original work that makes more sense are unimaginative. What I mean by that is that they lack the imagination to place or express their creative ideas into any context other than the pop entertainment they've enjoyed - even when those ideas don't fit. They lack the imagination to do so.

...on the same level of bashing Yuri/Yaoi because you don't like it.
It so happpens I don't read Yuri/Yaoi, but at what point have I bashed it? My only point is that a fanfic author who wants to write a Yaoi/Yuri fanfic should base it on ... oh, I dunno - a Yaoi/Yuri title.

If I want to write a fanfic about a super-advanced combat mecha and the plight of humanity in wartime, then Haibane Renmei probably isn't my best starting point, is it? I'd have to be one heck of a writer to make that work, and let's face it - if I was a sufficiently talented writer to make it work, I wouldn't be writing fanfiction, would I? I'd be better off writing a Gundam fanfic, because clearly that's the sort of story I want to write, no matter how big a fan of Haibane Renmei I might be.

But say that I go ahead and make Rakka the queen of the newtypes - isn't it natural to expect that the Haibane Renmei fans who read my work are going to tell me that I clearly didn't understand the first thing about the series, Rakka's character, or how important characters are to writing? How can I reasonably expect any other reaction? If I write about how Rakka chuckles with sadistic glee as she crushes the head of her opponent's mech under her heel, what right do I have to expect the fans of Haibane Renmei to respect my string of words as 'art'?

My answer: None. A story is more than a string of words, and the craft of writing is a lot more than just making sentences. If I want people to respect my work and my identity as an artist, then I'd better start respecting and using the techniques of that craft, don't you think? Otherwise I'm just an ape in pants banging on a keyboard. And I'm deserving of exactly that much artistic respect.

...an idea for a story of their own WITH the charactors...that they have an Idea in their head for the characters...if the writer wasn't a "fan" of the series they wouldn't be inspired to write anything with those characters in the first place, thus throwing your "They aren't fans" theory out the window.
You keep harping on this "with the characters" idea, but you've missed my point. A character is more than a name. My reason for saying "they're not fans" is simply that an OOC fanfic author doesn't appear to have a connection with the character that a fan of the series would have. A connection and understanding of a character involves knowing who that character is, what they'd be likely to do, and a plausuble explanation of their motives for doing it. The humor in a series like Ranma 1/2 (a popular OOC fanfic target) entirely depends on an understanding of the characters, in fact.

So - I can say I'm a fan when write a steamy romantic scene between Akane and Shampoo, and you might think I'm a fan of Ranma 1/2 for doing so - but really, all I've done is demonstrate my ignorance of the foundation of the show's humor. I've made a story that has nothing to do with "the characters" of whom I am supposedly such a big fan except for their names. And merely having a connection with the names of the characters does not a fan make, in my opinion. Nor a writer, as I was pointing out.

I have to ask, do you also think stories with canon couples are "loathsome"? Or even a het story with a non-cannon couple?
No. You're missing the point. I don't care about couples, nor is the het/yaoi/yuri aspect even relevant to my use of the word "loathsome". The pairings don't matter; I care about characters.

I've read good fanfics featuring non-canon pairings. Such works can be entertaining - IF the author takes the time to walk the reader sensibly from the characters as they are known to the characters as they are depicted in the fanfic. You wanna make Rakka a Gundam pilot? Fine - but you can't just have her wake up in the Charcoal Feathers' house and walk down to the launch bay. You have to establish (in a reasonable fashion) why the latest advances in Mobile Suit Technology happen to be located in Glie, as well as how she went from being a shy hatchling to elite pilot. Once that's established, you can go on from there, letting the characters be who they are in their newly skewed scenario. Such a story can be fun.

If an author doesn't take the time to do this, then you end up with... oh, I dunno - the difference between the dystopian socio-political work that is the Appleseed manga, versus the cheesy eye-candy action flick that is the Appleseed 2004 movie. Sure, they both feature Deunan Knute, but folks who've read the manga will only recognize the movie characters by name and shape - nothing more.


OKAY... so bringing it back to point #2: the subgroup of OOC fanfic authors (specifically fangirls for this thread) writing yaoi/yuri.

Why should I consider them to be "loathesome" and the worst of the worst offenders in terms of fanfiction? Well, as someone pointed out, they're the ones writing the furthest out of their element. It's natural to expect their work to be the worst, if they're: a) blatantly disregarding the most important elements of the craft of writing, and b) writing that far out of their collective knowledge and experience.

This is perhaps a bit of an obvious point, but perhaps giggly manga cows (to borrow the term) should stick to writing about the sorts of things that giggly manga cows know about. There's a good reason that any textbook on writing typically hammers home the point of "write what you know".
;)

[same_animefan]

The important part is that it should be believable. Take Ranma 1/2 for example. Pairing male Ranma off with anyone female is believable. He has about a million girls anyway. Even a Mary-Sue story would be believable to a certain extent. Having Ramna be sensible and mature about their relationship would be out of character. Having the relationship work out, or lead to sex would be out of character. Having Ranma be involved in a homosexual relationship would be way out of character.

That's how it works for me. If you were to write a yaoi fanfic involving (for example) Shinji from Evangelion, that would be somewhat believable, since the character has shown some small leanings toward same-sex attraction. If you were to write a yaoi fanfic involving a character who has shown none of those inclinations, then it's out of character for them.

If you're having to make the characters do things they wouldn't normally do, then you're not giving any respect to those characters. Your "what if" should spring naturally from the characters and the setting, rather than from your own personal fantasies.

I see what you mean, and I don't think I personally do that myself. My fandoms are usually YuYu Hakusho, Saint seiya, Weiss Kreuz, things with a natural slight hint at things as it is. Of course, I don't care for Ranma 1/2 much to begin with xD though that's besides the point ^_^.

Still, that is the point of writing fanfiction. To put the characters in a situation that interests you or wonder how it might play out. And even ones with a straight character turning gay can be good if it's written nicely and it's not just "Ok....I'm gay now," lol. If the story is developed properly anything can be made believable. A story of how some extremly touchy/grouchy/Bastard starts to soften up and become sweet can be good if written nicely as well.

If you really want everything so stuck in concrete with fanfiction then there really is no fanfiction. If you can't devolpe the character to suit the story then there is no story to write. Some people are dead-set with Canon ideas and that's fine but I don't like when they bash on non-canons and say that fanfiction writers are uncreative; that got me more in his post than anything else. I found that highly offensive as a writer of both fanfiction and orginal stories.

^Desslock, I agree with you that a fanfiction needs to be written correctly and developed properly to make it believable. I was never saying it wasn't and I'm sorry if I misenterprited the things you said. I still have to say that I'm offended on your take on yaoi/Yuri fanfic authors though. It's the same concept with this...Rakka character you went on with (I have no idea what this anime is about in any way, shape or form). To drastically change something from the outline in the show there needs to be a good explenation and retelling and writing it in a sense that it DOES make sense and the same can be applied to yaoi/Yuri fanfic authors.

If I'm still taking your words and not understanding them I'm sorry. Again, it's not like I'm trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to get my point across like you are.

[Milky Mixer]

I agree with what most of what Desslock is saying in regard to fanfic... but I really think it's up to the capability of the writer, and again, if you don't like what they are doing, don't read it. Me, I've never written fanfic before. But I still want to do a GitS fanfic with Batou and a guy... maybe even the Major's brain in a guy's body... heh! I could totally pull it off. I think Texhnolyze and Gravion are also ripe for some yaoi slash.

[ShanceChance]

I have no problem with yaoi/yuri fanfiction with non-cannon pairings as a concept. The same goes for non-cannon het. If I dislike the pairing, I don't read, regardless of whether it it yaoi, yuri, or het.

The problem is that far too much fanfiction is either bad or average. One of the worst fanfics I ever read, period, was a wedding night lemon for Sakura and Syaoran of CCS. The two characters just acted like any man and woman, not the two characters I knew from watching the anime. The setting was not established. I have no idea how things had happened from the end of the anime up until this point, so it just came out of nowhere. Spelling and grammtical errors were everywhere. The person clearly didn't know how either male or female anatomy functioned (Syaoran didn't even unroll the condom correctly!). It was just terrible. That's solid proof that you can use a cannon het couple and still manage to fudge up royally.

My main problem is that so much yaoi (which isn't even labeled "OOC") just has two guys that could be any characters. The author does no work in developing the relationship and working on the established characters. I want it to be believable that these two male characters, who I've known from reading the manga or watching the anime, get together. In my mind, I want to be able to picture this actually happening. You can do this with non-cannon pairings, but, the less the two characters interacted in the source material, the harder it is to make the fic work. Many authors absolutely fail at doing this.

[Leader Desslock]

...I still have to say that I'm offended on your take on yaoi/Yuri fanfic authors though.
Perhaps it might help to remember that I'm not saying "ALL Yaoi/Yuri fanfic authors are bad". I'm specifically talking about the subset of Y/Y fanfic authors who write OOC fanfics of non Y/Y series as "the worst of the worst".

As for Y/Y fanfics of Y/Y shows and the authors who write them - I'm indifferent. Not my genre. They can write what they want and be as good or as bad as they want; I'll never care one way or the other. ^_^

[Soluzar]

And even ones with a straight character turning gay can be good if it's written nicely and it's not just "Ok....I'm gay now," lol. If the story is developed properly anything can be made believable.
I disagree. I think that a lot of things can be made believable, but that there is a concrete line beyond which you can say "This character wouldn't do that". There's a lot of lattitude between the canon portrayal of the character and their limits, but not infinite.

If you really want everything so stuck in concrete with fanfiction then there really is no fanfiction. If you can't devolpe the character to suit the story then there is no story to write. Some people are dead-set with Canon ideas and that's fine but I don't like when they bash on non-canons and say that fanfiction writers are uncreative; that got me more in his post than anything else. I found that highly offensive as a writer of both fanfiction and orginal stories.

The thing is that there are characters who would just never even contemplate a homosexual relationship. You can develop the characters as much as you want, but there remains a basic set of qualities about all of them that it's pointless to change. Like you said, in some anime, there's room to develop the ambiguous characters that way. However, I don't think there's room to develop Naruto and Sasuke in that direction, for example, or Inuyasha and Sesshomaru, who I understand are a favoured yaoi paring.

If you ask me, part of the skill would be in selecting viable couples.

[ShanceChance]

I totally agree with everything ShanceChance has said....especially #4. I know girls like to keep their pure white image, but if you're watching people have sex, and you're getting turned on, you're watching porn. end of story.

i wanted to add something to that list if i may:
7) The idea that it's their personal goal to convert people to watch yaoi...and not just BL, but yaoi. i get it - you watch gay porn, and it turns you on...why do you have to tell everybody? and why do you have to convert your 8 year old cousins!?!? every time that i read about some fangirl "converting her 8 year old cousin this weekend into watch yaoi - it was so cute!11!" it makes me want to scream. yes, that's great for society...getting children to watch porn. they might watch porn eventually, but you don't have to encourage them and start them off so young.
i also hate why they have to share it likes it's something to be proud of. not that it's something to be ashamed of, but it's not something everyone should know about you. i just had this argument over at aarin's page because someone posted a topic "why do you hide it from your parents?" well why the hell would i tell them? "guess what mom and dad, your 23 year old youngest daughter spends her time late at night watching getting turned on by gay porn rather than watching the news, or something useful." yeah...that'd go over great. just because you think it's the best thing ever doesn't mean it's appropriate to share with the world.


This falls into the "lack of decency" catagory. Showing an 8-year-old porn is wrong, regardless of whether it's gay, lesbian, straight, or whatever else. If it's okay to show an 8-year-old yaoi, can I show my cousin who is about that age a Playboy magazine or Jenna Jameson video and say "omg its so cute!!!111"? I mean, how is that different?

My dad knows of my hentai/yuri (and, to a lesser extent, yaoi) hobby and he doesn't exactly approve of it, but his final stance is "it's not hurting anyone, and there is much worse you can do". Now, this is a very liberal-minded father's opinion. The average late-teen/early-adult's father is not so open-minded, and I don't think that many parents would be all skippy-happy towards and proud of their 13-year-old if they found out what this "yaoi" she speaks of so often is.

[same_animefan]

I disagree. I think that a lot of things can be made believable, but that there is a concrete line beyond which you can say "This character wouldn't do that". There's a lot of lattitude between the canon portrayal of the character and their limits, but not infinite.

The thing is that there are characters who would just never even contemplate a homosexual relationship. You can develop the characters as much as you want, but there remains a basic set of qualities about all of them that it's pointless to change. Like you said, in some anime, there's room to develop the ambiguous characters that way. However, I don't think there's room to develop Naruto and Sasuke in that direction, for example, or Inuyasha and Sesshomaru, who I understand are a favoured yaoi paring.

If you ask me, part of the skill would be in selecting viable couples.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Maybe I was exageratting slightly with the "Anything" remark, but there is still a lot. Also, some people might seriously take a characters, well, personality, in a different light. I'm not saying I like OOC fics, those are annoying. I'm saying that Writers can, even if in the show it isn't something the character would do, make you believe and think after some devolpoment, "Yes, ok, I can see that now" where it might or might not have made sense before.

Hehe, I like the Sasuke/Naruto pairing ^^ there are some hints if you look, at least in the beginning and what I've seen. Especially in the...arg, don't know the name, episode with Zabuza and such where Sasuke was hurt and Naruto kinda lost it. Moments like those are usually where the ideas for non-canon pairings come up :P Doesn't have to be anything big to plant the NC seed in a yaoi/yuri/het lovers head ^_~

Perhaps it might help to remember that I'm not saying "ALL Yaoi/Yuri fanfic authors are bad". I'm specifically talking about the subset of Y/Y fanfic authors who write OOC fanfics of non Y/Y series as "the worst of the worst".

As for Y/Y fanfics of Y/Y shows and the authors who write them - I'm indifferent. Not my genre. They can write what they want and be as good or as bad as they want; I'll never care one way or the other. ^_^

Lol, ok. Yes, some are bad. I have a bad habit of taking a lot of things personally -_-;; I'm stubborn like that. I'll fight what I'm saying till the end. haha :P As good as it is bad, least no one can influence me in anyway xD, lol.

[Soluzar]

Hehe, I like the Sasuke/Naruto pairing ^^ there are some hints if you look, at least in the beginning and what I've seen. Especially in the...arg, don't know the name, episode with Zabuza and such where Sasuke was hurt and Naruto kinda lost it. Moments like those are usually where the ideas for non-canon pairings come up :P Doesn't have to be anything big to plant the NC seed in a yaoi/yuri/het lovers head ^_~

I'll admit that there are some elements which might be taken as a hint by a Yaoi fan, but that leaves aside several important facts. 1) Sasuke isn't interested in sex or romance. Period. He's interested only in his quest, to kill a certain man, and restore the Uchiha clan. 2) Naruto's heartsick for the wide-foreheaded Sakura. He's not interested in anyone else, male or female.

It's not believable even for a second, to me. Not even for 1/100th of a second. It goes against the basic and most fundamental things we know about Uchiha Sasuke. He's not going to allow himself to be distracted from his goal. However, for the sake of curiosity, who do you see as being likely to make the first move?

[same_animefan]

I'll admit that there are some elements which might be taken as a hint by a Yaoi fan, but that leaves aside several important facts. 1) Sasuke isn't interested in sex or romance. Period. He's interested only in his quest, to kill a certain man, and restore the Uchiha clan. 2) Naruto's heartsick for the wide-foreheaded Sakura. He's not interested in anyone else, male or female.

It's not believable even for a second, to me. Not even for 1/100th of a second. It goes against the basic and most fundamental things we know about Uchiha Sasuke. He's not going to allow himself to be distracted from his goal. However, for the sake of curiosity, who do you see as being likely to make the first move?

lol. Naruto. Sasuke would never say anything like "I like you" xD Never. Especially not first. And Naruto would most likely have to grow on Sasuke first before he got anything but a cold glare and an insult. Naruto would have to wiggle his way into that cold little heart of Sasuke's ^_~ You can make a non-canon couple while still keeping the charactors in charactor ^_^ Least that's how I see it.

Also, and I haven't seen past the Chuunin exams, but I'd make it so Naruto gave up on Sakura first and have some decent explaination. Something happened or another, not thinking up fic ideas at the moment :P But yeah, it can be made to work rather nicely if done right ^_^. If I want a straight sex or "i love you" off the bat I'll go find myself a nice little PWP to read :P

I also see things like that as a challenge, like how Sasuke only has his one life mission; how would Naruto break into that? How would Sasuke react to it? Would he accept the feelings? Would it take time? that's what makes fanfiction fun for me in any case <3

[Leader Desslock]

Hehe, I like the Sasuke/Naruto pairing ^^ there are some hints if you look
No. There are not. None. Not At All. Period. Any suggestion to the contrary is the projection of what a viewer wants to see, not what's actually there.

...Sasuke was hurt and Naruto kinda lost it.
That is more simply explained by looking at the characters. Naruto seeks the recognition and approval of his village. He views Sasuke as a rival, and earliers scenes bear this out. They're competing with one another, and after some competition, they start to respect one another on a begrudging level.

In the fight where Sasuke & Naruto are fighting Haku, Sasuke intentionally takes a hit intended for Naruto. Naruto sees this as a concrete act of acceptance from his rival (Sasuke) that he would willingly take a hit, so Naruto's anger boils over. The rest of that part of the fight is Naruto avenging his fallen comrade, as honor (and his perceived position as future Hokage) demands. That's it. Sometimes a kyuubi is just a kyuubi, you know?

Earlier you said "If the story is developed properly anything can be made believable." I disagree, on the sames terms as Soluzar. I would replace that with the far more plausible sentence that "if a person wants to see something in a given work, they will, whether it's there or not."

The earlier example of Naruto is a good example. It Simply Isn't There, by any rational interpretation. And to bring this sentiment back to the main thread, perhaps it's the willingness for Yaoi fangirls to see what they want, rather than what's there in a non-Yaoi series is one of the things that makes them so annoying* to the rest of anime fandom.

*Mind you, they don't exactly have a corner on that market. Gods know there are people who devote hours of research to find meanings in Evangelion that simply aren't there, for example. It's annoying in any part subculture, I think...

[same_animefan]

No. There are not. None. Not At All. Period. Any suggestion to the contrary is the projection of what a viewer wants to see, not what's actually there.


That is more simply explained by looking at the characters. Naruto seeks the recognition and approval of his village. He views Sasuke as a rival, and earliers scenes bear this out. They're competing with one another, and after some competition, they start to respect one another on a begrudging level.

In the fight where Sasuke & Naruto are fighting Haku, Sasuke intentionally takes a hit intended for Naruto. Naruto sees this as a concrete act of acceptance from his rival (Sasuke) that he would willingly take a hit, so Naruto's anger boils over. The rest of that part of the fight is Naruto avenging his fallen comrade, as honor (and his perceived position as future Hokage) demands. That's it. Sometimes a kyuubi is just a kyuubi, you know?

Earlier you said "If the story is developed properly anything can be made believable." I disagree, on the sames terms as Soluzar. I would replace that with the far more plausible sentence that "if a person wants to see something in a given work, they will, whether it's there or not."

The earlier example of Naruto is a good example. It Simply Isn't There, by any rational interpretation. And to bring this sentiment back to the main thread, perhaps it's the willingness for Yaoi fangirls to see what they want, rather than what's there in a non-Yaoi series is one of the things that makes them so annoying* to the rest of anime fandom.

*Mind you, they don't exactly have a corner on that market. Gods know there are people who devote hours of research to find meanings in Evangelion that simply aren't there, for example. It's annoying in any part subculture, I think...

It doesn't HAVE to be yaoi or yuri! People do it with HET pairings just as often! Yes, it IS what a viewer wants to see, they can read more into it if they feel like it which is WHERE the story comes from. What makes a pairing popular is that there are MORE people who see the hints/suggestions/ideas/possiblities of that said pairing. It doesn't have to be rational or logical by any means. If you don't like Yuri you aren't looking for yuir/Shoujo-ai undertones. If you don't like yaoi you aren't looking for Yaoi/Shounen-Ai undertones so obviously you aren't going to see them because you don't want to. Just as easily as we WANT to see something you don't WANT to see it and therefore it doesn't exist for you.

Here's an example that I'm sure there is a pairing for, Shinji/Katsuragi from Neon Genessis. They are obviously not a couple, Asuka/Shinji, they are obviously not a couple. And Rei/Shinji is pretty damn obvious that Shinji likes Rei or at least thinks she's hot. It's the same Idea. There is a hint, people take it, and run with it.

Good god, We can argue this all day long and not get anywhere with each other. We are both right, you on a more logical level and me on what people WANT to see. If you've even looked through some fanfiction sites a good majority of those written is by yaoi/Yuri writers because they obviously like it. And, also, I am willing to bet a good majority are non-canon het as well. It isn't just the yaoi/yuri fans who go off with pairing whoever they think has a connection. The point of fanfiction is to have fun, if you want to be pickey you don't have to read it.

That's all there is to it. End of discussion. I'm done. There is no point in us going back and forth anymore because neither of us are going to be swayed and personally i'm not trying to sway you like I don't think you are me, but we're at an obvious standstill here.

[Soluzar]

I also see things like that as a challenge, like how Sasuke only has his one life mission; how would Naruto break into that? How would Sasuke react to it? Would he accept the feelings? Would it take time? that's what makes fanfiction fun for me in any case <3

If you can do it right, then yes. The further you want to take a character towards his or her limits, then the more development you have to do. I'd say you'd have to do approximately a year's worth of character-time, in order to just lay the groundwork for a halfway believable Naruto X Sasuke fic. Even then, I'm not convinced it was worth your time.

The reason for a lot of the hate directed towards OOC lemons, whether Yaoi, Yuri or straight, is that the writer doesn't put in that kind of work. You can make it slightly less unbelievable with an extended period of character development, but most fanfic authors seem to follow the "page 3, time for some buttsecks" school of thought.

Here's an example that I'm sure there is a pairing for, Shinji/Katsuragi from Neon Genessis. They are obviously not a couple, Asuka/Shinji, they are obviously not a couple. And Rei/Shinji is pretty damn obvious that Shinji likes Rei or at least thinks she's hot. It's the same Idea. There is a hint, people take it, and run with it.

Do you even realise how many slash fanfics exist that don't even have a hint which is as substantial as those you just described? Neither of those relationships is likely, without extremely substantial development, and both of them will always suffer credibility problems, but they are infinitely more credible than Inuyasha X Seshomaru, or Ed X Al in my opinion. In the case of Rei, let us not forget that Shinji has seen Rei naked, and grabbed her boob. In the case of Misato, it's credible mainly because she practically offered it to him on a plate.

[same_animefan]

Do you even realise how many slash fanfics exist that don't even have a hint which is as substantial as those you just described? Neither of those relationships is likely, without extremely substantial development, and both of them will always suffer credibility problems, but they are infinitely more credible than Inuyasha X Seshomaru, or Ed X Al in my opinion. In the case of Rei, let us not forget that Shinji has seen Rei naked, and grabbed her boob. In the case of Misato, it's credible mainly because she practically offered it to him on a plate.

That whole series was fanservice, but when exactly did Misato offer Shinji anything? She was flirty but that was her charactor, that didn't mean she had any feelings towards Shinji.*pokes* it's what you saw because you wanted to. Unless it was towards the end I didn't see anything in it but harmless, empty flirts. Shinji was a teen who felt up Rei's boobs once or twice and yeah, he's a prude in ways, and he was a guy who was horney. So, if he saw...let's say, Kaji (or whatever his name is) naked then that means there is more hints at the pairing? Because he accidently saw a naked body?

EdxAl is incest which is another level to slash, and personally I don't like the EdxAl pairing. InuxSess...well, I don't much like the series anymore, honestly. But again, Incest, the whole Love/Hate relationship that is common for so many pairings gay or straight. Everything is double sided and I see both sides as far as I'm concerned. Non-canon pairings in fanfics come from all catagories and it is based on what the viewer/writer sees in that charactor. They don't have to be logical and yes, if you must be a strictler for detail then sure, the charactor can be twisted slightly but it usually makes the story good. As long as the story is good and I like the pairing, if any, I'll read it. That's all that I'm concerned about. If I'm reading fanfiction I obviously want something outside of the original story line.

[Soluzar]

That whole series was fanservice, but when exactly did Misato offer Shinji anything? She was flirty but that was her charactor, that didn't mean she had any feelings towards Shinji.*pokes* it's what you saw because you wanted to.
Ahhh, but I don't make the mistake of leaving traps like that for myself to fall into. I wouldn't have mentioned it if I couldn't back it up. In the movie, End of Evangelion, after a long and rather emotional scene, Misato kisses Shinji, and tells him "That was an adult kiss. We'll do the rest when you get back."

That's not a bad hint. I rarely sit with my back towards a door these days. :P

So, if he saw...let's say, Kaji (or whatever his name is) naked then that means there is more hints at the pairing? Because he accidently saw a naked body?
In the case of Rei, it's a very credible hint because Shinji is clearly interested when he sees Rei naked. I'm guilty of assuming that you'd follow my thought process without me explaining it for which I apologise. Shinji's eyes can clearly be seen to follow her around, and to check her out. It's not just that he got a peek, it's that he liked it. He's also affectionate to her in his words and deeds.
Even if Rei is not attracted to Shinji, or if there is no proof that she is, there's at least a one-way attraction going on. It's not as credible as Shinji X Asuka, but it's at least as credible as Shinji X Kaworu, which I deem to be a highly credible pair for fanfiction.

Shinji X Kaji is a different kind of thing. They had a senpai/kohai type of relationship, and those always seem very close, but they aren't usually sexual. There would be an ick factor to bringing sex into a senpai/kohai relationship. Not without an deliciously ironic edge (for the viewer) does Hikaru in KOR refer to Kyosuke as "Senpai".

[soulreaper]

It doesn't HAVE to be yaoi or yuri! People do it with HET pairings just as often! Yes, it IS what a viewer wants to see, they can read more into it if they feel like it which is WHERE the story comes from. What makes a pairing popular is that there are MORE people who see the hints/suggestions/ideas/possiblities of that said pairing. It doesn't have to be rational or logical by any means. If you don't like Yuri you aren't looking for yuir/Shoujo-ai undertones. If you don't like yaoi you aren't looking for Yaoi/Shounen-Ai undertones so obviously you aren't going to see them because you don't want to. Just as easily as we WANT to see something you don't WANT to see it and therefore it doesn't exist for you.

Nope. What you are saying is that people who want to see such pairings in a series that obviously doesn't have them are basically finding mirages in a desert. If any kind of a hint of yaoi, yuri, or hetero-pairing was present in a series, then anyone would be able to find it.

You can analyze NarutoxSasuke to death, but you won't find anything other than what you make up yourself. The kiss at the beginning of the series? Comedy. Naruto getting mad at Sasuke after he jumped in the way of Haku's attack? Well, anybody in that situation would be mad. Naruto going all out to bring Sasuke back after he leaves? Well, as Naruto himself explains, Sasuke's rivalry evolved into the first brotherly relationship Naruto ever had. Plus, Naruto only wants Sakura, which is the equivalent of sticking a sign on his chest that says "straight," even if it isn't proclaimed or in neon lights. Sasuke, too, is not gay, at all. In fact, who is to say that he has any feelings for anybody at all?

OOC fanfics annoy me when I use the amazing human gift of empathy to place myself in the original creators' shoes. If I was Kishimoto, I would HATE the people who took my beloved and established characters and turned them into something they're not. If a fanfic writer wants to make an actual, believable, well-written fanfic, such as one chronicling Naruto's training with Jiraya, then fine. Naruto having buttsex with Sasuke? No. Inuyasha getting it on with his hated brother Shesshomaru? No. Edward Elric, in some strange and hard to imagine way, making love to Al? NO. And this isn't a bash on yaoi only. I also dislike yuri pairings and straight pairings when they aren't in-line with what the creator had in mind. Of course, based on personal experience, yaoi pairings are 100x easier to find than yuri ones. There is a literal plethora of real yaoi titles to choose from. Some people should try one of those instead of disrespecting something in another category.

[ShanceChance]

Here's an example that I'm sure there is a pairing for, Shinji/Katsuragi from Neon Genessis. They are obviously not a couple, Asuka/Shinji, they are obviously not a couple.
Actually, Asuka/Shinji is considered cannon by most hardcore EVA fans.

And Rei/Shinji is pretty damn obvious that Shinji likes Rei or at least thinks she's hot. It's the same Idea. There is a hint, people take it, and run with it.
And the people who write Rei/Shinji are either ignorant of the facts or aren't grossed out by incest. If I remember correctly, Rei was partially cloned from Shinji's mom, and Shinji is attracted to her for this reason. I wouldn't exactly consider this an ideal situation, but if a writer can pull it off, who knows?

[Soluzar]

And the people who write Rei/Shinji are either ignorant of the facts or aren't grossed out by incest. If I remember correctly, Rei was partially cloned from Shinji's mom, and Shinji is attracted to her for this reason. I wouldn't exactly consider this an ideal situation, but if a writer can pull it off, who knows?

Dude, it never stopped the Al x Ed writers. >_<

Homosexual incest. Because regular incest just wasn't kinky enough.

[DazzleKitty]

I'm not gonna delve into the fanfiction thing again, because I am too lazy to think right now.

Those of you mentioned fangirls showing yaoi to little kids is gross. I also agree. I suppose a very light BL story is okay, but not porn. I don't get how they think it's cute. Let the kid discover things on their own. It's wrong to shove porn in a kids face. It just disturbs me. Does it make me bad that I let my 14-year old cousin look at some risque stuff? She's already seen other things anyways...

The fangirls that feel they have to shove their love for yaoi in everyone's face. I don't go parading around and telling everyone. If I do tell, it's someone that I have known for a while and it somehow gets brought up. I don't actually like telling people anyways. I'm not 'proud' of it. It's just another hobby. No one really cares about other people's hobbies anyways.

[same_animefan]

Alright, seeing as I'm tired of arguing over the fanfiction yay or nah and "is it basterdizing a series" This will be my last post on the topic.

I agree that the underlying pairings that are not canon are hints that the individual viewer sees. Writing fanfiction is something meant to be enjoyable and creative and is in no way taken as trying to change the story line of a show. Also, creators are welcome to fanfiction (most, anyway) Like JK Rowling finds it flattering to have so many of her fans thinking up new pairings or ideas she herself might never have thought of. She enjoys that, where she says herself she'd rather not have NC-17 material written about them, but she has no problem with fanfiction in general.

Again, evenif the hint isn't INTENTIONALLY there in the orginal story line it doesn't mean that the viewer can't read further into it. Offically? No, those characters aren't gay, but it's the cute little hints and brotherly/sisterly/kind gestures that spark the ideas to begin with. Again, if you are a strictler for canon pairings have it your way, not trying to sway anyone, just trying to get my point across that fanfictionis more of a compliment than it is "basterdizing" or "not being a true fan' of a series.

*bows* thank you and see ya later ^_^

[GokuMew2]

There are fans, and then there are those who take it a little too far. I don't like the yaoi fans (or any fan for that matter) whose lives revolve around the fandom and push their opinions on others. Or those who constantly make perverted remarks. I mean, come on. Grow up.

In certain situations, a fan should be reserved. I only make remarks and jokes with my friends who I know are fans. I don't talk about it my friends who don't like it.

It's unfortunate that the immature fans are the ones who sort of "represent" the fandom, which is why so many people are all, "You like yaoi? EWWW! You must have no life."

But what's stupid is when guys say it's gross yet they are into yuri and hentai. Heh. .-_-

[Ariel Tsuki]

OAO Liek wow. I didn't know that this subject would get such feedback. But I'm glad it did because it gives me insight on what some people think of the yaoi fangirls.

Truth to be hold, there are always annoying fans in each fandom, and yaoi fandom is no different; even though I sometimes make a squeal from time to time (and I'm 22, sad, I know), but I think it's harmless fun as long it doesn't offend anyone or it's around an unsuitable audience (i.e. around kids). We must keep in mind that the fan extremists are a small minority of each fandom.

To the people that say making a character gay would be out of character, well I must disagree with you. Your sexuality is not a character trait like being arrogant/kind/submissive or related stuff. True, there are fanfictions that do that, but keep in mind that there are some that DO keep the characters in character while dealing such an issue as homosexuality. And I think OOC fics, shounen-ai/yaoi or het, are the absolutely annoying... but just because the character is gay in a fanfiction doesn't neccesarily means it's out-of-character. I really think is comes from a person's discomfort of seeing their favorite characters depicted in a way which makes them uncomfortable. In my opinion, if the creator doesn't have a problem with it, then the fan shouldn't either, end of story. And yes, they do know about the BL/yaoi audience or they even wouldn't bother dropping fanservice in the first place. It's all about marketing, people.

However, some general fans do treat yaoi fangirls like their freaks just because of their hobby, which I think it's not right. And yaoi fangirls retaiate by pushing their likes on someone who is clearly uncomfortable, which is not also right either. I hope this post would somewhat help with this issue.

And the one who was in an yaoi showing with all the screaming fangirls. That happens everywhere in a hentai showing. All the hooting-and-hollering is like part of the deal and half the fun. When I was working at a con and manning the hentai rooms, I never, ever encountered a showing where it was quiet. It's a bit creepy if it was quiet if you ask me.

[Soluzar]

I really think is comes from a person's discomfort of seeing their favorite characters depicted in a way which makes them uncomfortable. In my opinion, if the creator doesn't have a problem with it, then the fan shouldn't either, end of story. And yes, they do know about the BL/yaoi audience or they even wouldn't bother dropping fanservice in the first place. It's all about marketing, people.

Oh come on! You can't even pretend that you know whether the creator has a problem with it! What you write is your own business, but you can't expect anyone to like it. If I think that it sucks, or that it's out of character, then that's as much my right as yours to create it.

If I don't have that right, then you're getting into the territory of saying that your rights are more important than mine. Good job.

[Animematt55]

i have a question to some of the fangirls.....
How can you NOT consider YAOI, hentai? i mean it is hardcore sex, and you think it is cute? It IS hentai.


You go Soluzar!

[Soluzar]

For what it's worth, I like implied shoujo-ai, or even explicit shoujo-ai as long as it's soft core. I also don't have a problem with watching shounen-ai. I wouldn't watch shounen-ai with sexually explicit content, though, and I wouldn't watch hardcore yuri or yaoi. Just to set the record straight in case anyone thinks I don't like homosexual relationships.

I watch anime where those sort of things are part of of an otherwise interesting story. I wouldn't watch something that featured shoujo-ai just as a standalone element without interesting characters or events.

[Animematt55]

i am the same way Soluzar. I dont like hardcore Yaoi though. (i have watched 1 or 2 hentai though).
I mean i have started to read/watch Loveless, and it isnt too bad. Soubi is REALLY creepy though

[Milky Mixer]

i have a question to some of the fangirls.....
How can you NOT consider YAOI, hentai? i mean it is hardcore sex, and you think it is cute? It IS hentai.


You go Soluzar!

Well, I am a yaoi fanboy... well, I wouldn't even call myself a fanboy. I'm more like a guy who likes shonen-ai and the occasional yaoi. And yes, I would consider it hentai or adult. And no, I've never thought it was "cute." But then "cute" to me is the DearS when Peach-Pit draws them all super-deformed with stubby arms and legs. THAT'S cute. Gay sex... that can be hot, but not cute!

And yes, Loveless is great. I don't think Soubi is all that creepy... mysterious, but not creepy. But for some reason when I watch anime or read manga, the age thing isn't a big issue and isn't really all that noticeable. If they hadn't mentioned he was in 6th grade, I could have easily seen Ritsuka as a high schooler. In real life, yeah, it would be creepy. In manga it's just fantasy... It's not like people have catears in real life, either. That might be a bit creepy if it was real.

[DazzleKitty]

i have a question to some of the fangirls.....
How can you NOT consider YAOI, hentai? i mean it is hardcore sex, and you think it is cute? It IS hentai.


You go Soluzar!

I have nothing against hentai and I am a fangirl. I even like some of it. Why do you look at lolicon or shotacon then? I know you do. You told me. You must find some appealing or cuteness factor in it, or something. It seems like you enjoy blasting anyone who watches yaoi or hentai.

Yes, yaoi is hentai, I'll admit. But, when the girls refer to cute, I don't think they actually mean the sex scenes. They are probably talking about the actual romance. Shounen-ai and yaoi are both lumped under the whole yaoi category, so sometimes it's unclear what they referring to. They'll call something yaoi that isn't hentai but is shounen-ai(like Sukisho).

Some people do find sex cute, I suppose. You said yourself you don't like anime characters getting it on, so maybe you can't understand...

[Milky Mixer]

You go, DazzleKitty! :P

[Leader Desslock]

To the people that say making a character gay would be out of character, well I must disagree with you. Your sexuality is not a character trait like being arrogant/kind/submissive or related stuff.
<reads>
<reads again>
...
<reads several more times>

What you talkin' 'bout, Willis? I... don't see... how sexual orientation is anything but a character trait - or perhaps for the sake of clarity, I should say personality trait. Some people are nice, some people are aloof and standoffish, some people are overconfident, some people are straight and some people are gay. Some people are a combination of these things. Once all of these attributes are combined to form a character in the fictional sense, that fictional character is defined, and deviating from the defined character is OOC. Making Vegeta a humble person is OOC. Making Sasuke a happy-go-lucky clown is OOC. And writing about Ryoga and Kuno-sempai mad, passionate night of yaoi debauchery in a chinese opium den is OOC. They're not gay, and Ryoga would never be able to find China intentionally.

True, there are fanfictions that do that, but keep in mind that there are some that DO keep the characters in character while dealing such an issue as homosexuality...just because the character is gay in a fanfiction doesn't neccesarily means it's out-of-character.
Sure! As I said, if you wanna write a yaoi fanfiction, start with a yaoi title. A Gravitation fanfic will work. Naruto & Sasuke? Nope. Goku & Vegeta? No way. Sorry. It's just not in the original work. You can write a yaoi fanfic featuring a tryst between Naruto and Sasuke, but it's not going to have anything to do with the characters in that series.

I really think is comes from a person's discomfort of seeing their favorite characters depicted in a way which makes them uncomfortable.
That's a convenient ad hominem approach, but for some people (not me), I'll agree that's part of it. That doesn't mean it's true in all cases, nor that even those who DO experience discomfort aren't making a perfectly legitimate literary point, however. I guess the only real way to decide would be to look at the original author's intent when he/she created the character.

In my opinion, if the creator doesn't have a problem with it, then the fan shouldn't either, end of story.
Great! So we can dismiss the entire subgenre of Ranma 1/2 fanfics in which Ranma gets pregnant (a decent percentage), because that's a topic that Takahashi has indicated she finds quite distasteful. Actually, I think she finds sexual depictions of any of her main characters in Ranma 1/2 distasteful, regardless of what gender or species they happen to be at the time. So we can totally trash on these fics now. Awesome!

I've actually read some pretty good Ranma fanfics where Ranma has to work through some gender issues. But the good ones, without exception, were the ones that kept within the boundaries of the characters to which Takahashi introduced us.

[Soluzar]

Sure! As I said, if you wanna write a yaoi fanfiction, start with a yaoi title. A Gravitation fanfic will work. Naruto & Sasuke? Nope. Goku & Vegeta? No way. Sorry. It's just not in the original work. You can write a yaoi fanfic featuring a tryst between Naruto and Sasuke, but it's not going to have anything to do with the characters in that series.
You know what? I'd have to disagree about Naruto and Sasuke. The characters are not about to be deloped as gay, but I think that in this series, Kishi is putting more than enough hints in to keep the yaoi fans happy. It is something that he is doing deliberately to increase his fanbase, I think. It only started in "part 2" of the manga, really.

[Leader Desslock]

It only started in "part 2" of the manga, really.
I haven't read through the Naruto manga, but I understand there's a time break between the early events of Naruto and the continuation. Is that what you mean by "part 2"? And if so, that's a change in the tone of the original storyline & characters, right? The initial arcs, from what I've seen, have no trace of this.

Not that it really matters. I mean, in terms of someone writing a yaoi fanfic based on the portion of the series that's been released on R1 TV/DVD - they're making it up. There's nothing in that material to even suggest a yaoi relationship between those two characters. But I suppose if the author wants to work it in based on his own character evolutions, it'll either work or it won't. ^_^

[Soluzar]

I haven't read through the Naruto manga, but I understand there's a time break between the early events of Naruto and the continuation. Is that what you mean by "part 2"? And if so, that's a change in the tone of the original storyline & characters, right? The initial arcs, from what I've seen, have no trace of this.

That is indeed what I mean by "part 2". It's a very definite change, in my opinion, from the first several arcs. Almost no trace whatsoever, although the groundwork has been laid in a non-suggestive manner.

Not that it really matters. I mean, in terms of someone writing a yaoi fanfic based on the portion of the series that's been released on R1 TV/DVD - they're making it up. There's nothing in that material to even suggest a yaoi relationship between those two characters.

Not a thing, agreed.

But I suppose if the author wants to work it in based on his own character evolutions, it'll either work or it won't. ^_^
That's just the thing, though. It won't work, and it won't not work. It just won't go anywhere. All it amounts to is just enough suggestive remarks and double-entendre that you could wring homoeroticism from the story without it being a gross distortion. I regard it as simply a cynical marketing ploy.

[ShanceChance]

And the one who was in an yaoi showing with all the screaming fangirls. That happens everywhere in a hentai showing. All the hooting-and-hollering is like part of the deal and half the fun. When I was working at a con and manning the hentai rooms, I never, ever encountered a showing where it was quiet. It's a bit creepy if it was quiet if you ask me.

In the hentai room, it's mostly people laughing and MSTing whatever is showing. The worst complaint I have is that their humor isn't funny.
In the yaoi room, I can hear them screaming at the other end of the long hallway, as well as screaming things which not everyone wants to hear (such as the size of some guy's penis, or how "tight" some guy must be). There's a pretty big difference.

When I watch anime, I want to actually watch it, not simply sit there and listen to other people's opinions. That is why I generally don't go in showing rooms.

[Yukito Kunisaki]

The way how I feel, If it was ment to be, let it be. See, I see Yaoi pics of characters who were not supposed to be gay. Albel Nox from Star Ocean is one. I like him alot, I think of him as a cool guy, one like me, but when I see Yaoi of those kind of characters, I just can't stand it. It is like me taking a well loved Yaoi character from a REAL Yaoi, and sticking him in love with a girl, which, IMO, isnt as bad, but still.

Let me just say it this way. If i see Yaoi Fangirl running around screaming "So and So are so hot together!!!!!" and they were two I thought were cool, i wouldn't like it. Sorry Yaoi fangirls, thats how it is in my eyes. =\

I admit, not all yaoi fangirls are bad, but too many get way out of hand. **Those yaoi paddles scare me xD**

[Lockheart]

I admit, not all yaoi fangirls are bad, but too many get way out of hand.

Fans of yaoi =/= Yaoi fangirls.

At least that's how I see it. To me, the term 'fan' refers to either gender who has a healthy (relative, true) enthusiasm for a certain hobby. In this case, people who are able to appreciate and enjoy the genre, and yet, are able to draw out comprehensible posts, which proves they are capable of criticism to distinguish what's good and bad in the yaoi they're reading, and not blinded by the hawt sex. They understand that subtext remains subtext, and that nothing is ever conclusive, as is the case of Getbackers, Naruto, CCS, and countless others. (They form their own story in doujinshis, but that's another case.) In short, you are able to carry a decent conversation with people who just happen to enjoy the yaoi genre.

As for 'fangirls', to me, they're utterly obsessive to the point where they'd TyP3 LiEk ThIz!!!!!!11! when they lay eyes on two hot males. As long as the story is non-existent or crude, it doesn't matter if the two males r Hawt togetha. If there are females apparently in the way of hot boy sex, they'll curse and *****slap her till kingdom comes. It doesn't matter if it's not her fault their man likes her, it's still her fault because she exists. Such is the case of Kairi of Kingdom Hearts and Sakura of Naruto. If fangirls ship boy love in shounen series, they'd scream through hell and back that it's "canon", even when they're repeatedly slapped with contradictory facts. If there're two of them together, you can bet posts would go something like "Omg He's Sooo Hawt!!1" "Liek, really!? I no3, I wAnt hiz BAB1es" "No, Me" "M3" "STFU AND HANDS OFF" There's nothing new about fangirlspeak, really. :\ And they seem to be fourteen. Not that you're dumb when you're fourteen, but they sure represent themselves well.

In short, yes, I was amused with the yaoi fangirls; they're unlike my pet hamster who's whiny and *****y too, but it's getting old. So yes, I do dislike the yaoi fangirls now. And what does this do to the topic? Nothing, so carry on...

[LostCause]

once upon a time, wondering cyberspace i stumbled upon a website where fangirls of various bishounen were deviding said bishounen amongst themselves and marrying them!
or at least claiming to do so, i didn't investigate the details. i'm probably being naive here, but i just don't see how infamous rabid yaoi fangirls can top that. (unless it's a fanboy..........but lets not go there).

sanity .......................is fragile

[FateDancer]

*holds hands up cautiously* This is what I think. If you disagree, I'm very sorry for offending you.

What I believe about fanfiction is that it is just that: fanfiction. It is fiction, as in, fiction written by fans. While it is true that too often I click open a story to see the characters ruthlessly butchered and OOC to the point of extreme terror, so what? That person has a right to write down any stories they come up with in their minds.

This is where the fanfiction part comes in: It is written by fans. Fans of a coupling, a series, a whatever, but these people are fans. So long as they do not go along slamming what you like, how is it anyone else's buisness what they like? Regardless of being slash or not, it does not give you a right to make bad comments on their writing based on their fandom. Constructive critisim, yeah, but don't make it too biased.

Second, it's fiction. That means that it is not true. It is not in the original anime or manga and it was made by some writer somewhere on this earth. If a person writes about their favorite slash coupling but the original plot has them in heterosexual relationships, so what? It's just imagination, and people have a right to express what they think or imagine.

I can understand how OOC characters can irritate you, but who says the writer is good? Just because they write something doesn't mean they're good authors. Most of the OCCness is in AU, and then they have different experinces and memories. A Sasuke in the normal Naruto world and one from a dying planet of Chocolate Chips would have different personalties, wouldn't they?

As for the yaoi fangirls themselves...well, at least most of them don't scream at each other, "SASUKE IS MINE YOU @#%$*!" It scares me when I see that. And I do. Quite often. *shudder*

[Yukito Kunisaki]

As for the yaoi fangirls themselves...well, at least most of them don't scream at each other, "SASUKE IS MINE YOU @#%$*!" It scares me when I see that. And I do. Quite often. *shudder*

I honestly would LOVE to have them fighting over my favorite male characters rather than slashing them with another guy. It has happened to Albel (One of my favorite VG characters), The Saiyuki cast, Sesshomaru, annd many others. SAME goes for the guys and the girl slashing. The way I like it, If they are not ment to be together and they are not gay/lesbian, then I hate it. IF they are together in the anime (IE Yuki/Shuichi, Himeko/Chikane, Haruka/Michiru, Ritsuka/Other guy*Souba..was it?*) I am completely fine with it, I just REALLY hate slashing. >.> GREAT way to get on my bad side...well...as I said, atleast if it is a guy or girl I am a great fan to :).

[DazzleKitty]

I talked about the fanfiction thing with my brother to see his opinion. I am not trying to beat a dead horse, but I thought his example was amusing.

Okay, so some claim that fanfiction is ruining the series and messing with a piece of art. They feel people should make their own characters and not use someone else's. My brother used a musical instrument for his example. Someone creates an instrument and writes a song for it. Say the inventor of the first guitar (I know nothing of music, so forgive this stupidity, it's just an example) writes a song for his invention. Someone else listens to it, and decides they love the intrument and writes their own song for it. They just ruined the creator's intent for it by making their own song for it. Shouldn't they make their own instrument to write songs for?

This was my brother's input. Don't call me stupid if you don't like it. Make fun of him.

[Carmel]

Maybe that would've been their intent, but hey, was TVs intent to show porn? Well lots of channels would like you to think so! Things change over time and if you don't like what you're hearing/watching, you do not have to have anything to do with it period. For the people that do enjoy what it has become, good for them!

Any fan fiction is going to be changing the authors intent, so unless someone arbours all fan fiction, that argument doesn't hold up in my books, no matter the subject matter. It's only ruining the series if you don't like the content, for others it could be the whole reason they're watching the series, everything is based on interpretation so to say one thing is definitely wrong and shouldn't exist - unless it's incredibly inconceivable - isn't being fair. I don't see a problem with someone writing or drawing what they want, I don't complain about Cardcaptor Sasuka yuri fan fiction, or anything else of the sort, I just don't read it.

[Kirika]

I think the reason why yaoi fan girls are so hated or people make fun of them is because like some people mentioned before some of them behave really intolerant, inmature and very annoying, so is obvious that most people think of all yaoi fan girls like that when not all of them are like that.

I know some yaoi fangirls that are very mature, they dont try to bash you or kill you just for saying that you like yuri, and they respect if you like both genres, they also dont think that yaoi is all mighty and supreme and they just see it like their favorite genre in anime and which they enjoy so much so they dont try to force everyone they meet to love yaoi. Meanwhile the ones who behave the opposite to what i just mentioned are the ones who really give yaoi fangirls a bad reputation with the fandom community.

[Alice Catherine]

*stares*
*re-reads last 7 pages*


Damn. If you think ff.net is bad, you should check out this (http://www.gaionline.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3) little forum.


I belong to Gaia Online as Alice Catherine as well. I am a frequent poster in the AMC (Anime/Manga/Comics) forum, and just recently versus threads got banned? For those of you who are REALLY REALLY stupid, a versus thread is when you pit a character from one anime with a character from another anime against one another in a battle. Sounds fun, right? Not when you have THIS as the first post:
ZOMG SASUKE WOULD WIN!!!!! HE'S SO HOTTT!!!111 *insert emoticon rape here*
And when you DO get an intelligent, follows-the-guidelines versus, and GOD FORBID it's something like Itachi vs Sesshomaru or something of that nature with HIGHLY popular characters, all you get is THIS post from DUN DUN DUN, a fangirl. This is the post you would get:
ZOMG SASUKE IS SEXY!!!111 HE TOTALLY RAPES NARUTO AND NARUTO LIKES IT BUT SEESSHHYY'S HOTT, 2, SO I DUNNO!*more smiley rape*
Seriously. Is your freakin' Caps Lock key stuck?
Another thing. These fangirls who have claimed to have watched Yaoi and name series like Gravitation, FAKE, and so on...
Dude. It ain't Yaoi. Plain and simple. Also, it's not really shounen-ai, either, because shounen-ai is basically "boy love" and does, in fact, mean a pedophile relationship with an underage boy. Or so I'm told.


So yeah. Gaia is WAY MORE LENIENT than animenation, simply because you're only banned if you hack and steal gold, or if you do something WAY out of proportion. Just try and spam here. I've told the fangirls that several times.

[Animematt55]

Gravitation and fake are yaoi (shonen-ai). ANything with an underage boy is called "shota"

[LostCause]

@ alice catherine
read the sticky for the definitions of yaoi and shonen-ai
also u might notice, that this particular forum is, supposedly, for people over 18

[ShanceChance]

Gravitation and fake are yaoi (shonen-ai). ANything with an underage boy is called "shota"

Not anymore.

Yaoi = pr0n

BL = boy-on-boy romance

shounen-ai = pedophilia

[Magami No ER]

Shounen-ai is just the older term for non-sexual BL, which is said more often today (they do mean the same thing afterall)
Yaoi is more PWP, but seems to now also include "more then just implied sexual content"
Shota is...shota. >.>;

[Animematt55]

Not anymore.

Yaoi = pr0n

BL = boy-on-boy romance

shounen-ai = pedophilia
umm...no, just no,
shonen-ai is NOT pedophilia (did this come from Loveless??)
Shota is underage boys....
Yaoi is male-male relationships, whether totally in the open, or subtly implied.
Shonen-ai is used to refer specifically for non-sexual yaoi.

[ShanceChance]

umm...no, just no,
shonen-ai is NOT pedophilia (did this come from Loveless??)
Shota is underage boys....
Yaoi is male-male relationships, whether totally in the open, or subtly implied.
Shonen-ai is used to refer specifically for non-sexual yaoi.

I'm talking about what these words actually mean in Japan at this current time.

Say "shounen-ai" in Japan. They'll think you're thinking of "loving" boys.
Say "yaoi" in Japan. They'll think you're thinking of pr0n.

[kittynboi]

Well, I don't find the current use of the words in Japan particularly important unless I want to misuse the terms on purpose just to cause trouble.

[Haruka-kun]

Quite a heated discussion here. LOL

It is interesting to see a lot of people expressing their hate for fanfictions written by fangirls. I am a fan of shounen-ai/BL/yaoi genre for more than a year already. And I have never read a single fanfiction. ^_^

It amazed me that some of the people here who is not a fan of the genre read fanfiction (even though they don't like it, they spend their precious time to search for it and read it). :P

So, my advice is this: If you don't like it, don't search for it, don't read it, don't look at it. IGNORE IT COMPLETELY. It is really not hard to to ignore it. Like I said, I am a fangirl. And I have join several forum dedicated to yaoi, but i never read one fanfictions. The reason I don't read it not because I hate it. It because it not my taste (like yuri, shouta, hentai, etc).

I also read a few complains about the way fangirls write and talks. If you don't like the way people write, skip that post. :rolleyes: It just a way of people expression their emotion. Some people curse non-stop, some write run on sentence, etc...People write differently. The way they write does not make them an idiot, bubblehead, jerk, or whatever.

Anyways, i think that it is a good thing that some people enjoy writing fanfiction. I have a hard time writing this post.
Love and peace :heart:

[kittynboi]

Ever seen the film JFK?

[Lunk]

But Haruka-kun, the way you speek/write gives people certain impression of you. If you use l33t talk, you may be considered an idioit, if your posts are full of grammar mistakes and wrong spelling, then, well, even more so. It doesn't MAKE you an idiot, but it certainly makes you appear as one.

fanfictions : never liked them, not even non-yaoi ones, not good-wrtitten ones. Because I have a feeling that using someone elses characters is wrong. I always think "would he/she react like this?" or "what do I know?". It seems to me, that only the original artists are the ones who should work with their chars...

[ZoharContact]

fanfictions : never liked them, not even non-yaoi ones, not good-wrtitten ones. Because I have a feeling that using someone elses characters is wrong. I always think "would he/she react like this?" or "what do I know?". It seems to me, that only the original artists are the ones who should work with their chars...I haven't really read much fanfiction, but I've read some doujinshi and I think it's a miracle that fans are able to make works like that without (significant?) fear of legal repurcussions.

For example, there's a yuri renai game called Akai Ito that I liked a lot, but while there was romance, there wasn't much intimacy in the game. Some well-written doujinshi gave me good ideas to help finalize the story in my mind. Certainly, I can fill in gaps with my own imagination, but limiting fans to that alone, when the original creators clearly don't mind the publicity, would probably take the spark out of many original works. Like they say, any publicity is good publicity.

Plus, I think it's fun sometimes to see differing interpretations of a character, when they're written well. You might come to a realization you wouldn't have thought of before.

[earsofdoom]

I haven't really read much fanfiction, but I've read some doujinshi and I think it's a miracle that fans are able to make works like that without (significant?) fear of legal repurcussions.


In Japan fan-made work's are encouraged and quite legal, if they did the same in the west they would be sued before you had the time to read my post lol.

[earsofdoom]

I haven't really read much fanfiction, but I've read some doujinshi and I think it's a miracle that fans are able to make works like that without (significant?) fear of legal repurcussions.


In Japan fan-made work's are encouraged and quite legal, if they did the same in the west they would be sued before you had the time to read my post lol.

EDIT: sry pc locked up and it printed twice

[Yakura Shima]

yaoi is my life.
but im not a bubble head.
and i like shoujo-ai,
just not yuri.

[Leader Desslock]

In Japan fan-made work's are encouraged and quite legal, if they did the same in the west they would be sued before you had the time to read my post lol.
To my knowledge, doujinshi are just as illegal in Japan as they are in the US, but there's no drive to prosecute. Japan's laws for copyright and protection of intellectual property certainly allow licensors to prosecute, if they chose to do so. They choose not to, since the activity is viewed as an extension of fandom.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=347620

Not that this has anything to do with the topic, but it's just as easy to get this right as not...

And from my own perspective, the illegality of fanworks is irrelevant. They could be as legal as breathing air, and I'd still hate OOC fanworks. And I'd probably still consider OOC Yuri/Yaoi fanworks that mangle a premise just to pair up otherwise straight characters in couples as the bottom of the OOC barrel.

[Yakura Shima]

when i make my manga and anime and video game,
im going to demand for there to not be any hentai doujinshi.
it would piss me off because my characters are too cute and gay.

[Leader Desslock]

The fact that you stamp "Copyright = Me" on something is the demand. That doesn't mean anyone's going to heed that demand. The only think a copyright holder can do is sue those folks for using his/her property without license to do so.

I just wanted to point that out so that we're all clear that the onus for policing copyright enforcement is on the licensor whose rights have been violated. It's not that "everything is free unless prohibited". It's that "nothing is free unless license is given, but that doesn't mean anything unless the licensor stands up for himself."

[Yakura Shima]

so ya-ya-chan can sue???

[Leader Desslock]

Whoever or whatever Ya-ya-chan is, presumably it can sue if its intellectual property is being used by someone without license to do so, yes.

[Ninja337]

1. Yaoi fangirls are idiots 50% of the time. They seem to know millions of useless facts about yaoi, but when I ask them who the emperor of Japan is, they dont know.
2. Yaoi is pedophelia, and I treat all pedophiles equally. By equal, I mean with extreme hatred. Yaoi fangirls/boys don't realize most of the characters in their manga and their own little fantasies about Naruto or Bleach include young men under the age of 18. Lolicon fans get shunned and driven into the ground, for good reason too, and so should female pedophiles as well.
3. They are too populous and complain about everyone hating them all the time.
4. Gay men have rights, and they don't need to feel uncomfortable being around women that persue them because they want to see some "BL". BL is sick ****, gay guys aren't around for women's entertainment.

Really I know it is unfair for me to hate yaoi fangirls, but for me it symbolizes the collective degredadtion of the term anime fan. I used to be proud of being an anime fan, but with these girls with their mouthes watering over men have become too numerous over the last two years and give long time fans a bad name. Maybe when the anime fad dies down all the BL and yaoi **** will disapear with all the other untrue female fans, and the remainder of anime fans will be the men and women who kept their composition and did not sucumb to being fools.

[Jiyuu]

I don't care if u hate us lol man :D
And if u think we're all stupid, u just the same .I don't think u know all yaoi fangirls in da world, and stupiditiy istn't up to fangirlism .Oh and Japan's emperor has nothing to do with yaoi , AND if u hate us, and yaoi be sure u know what yaoi means...It doesn't mean pedophilia. So thx for showing off ur knowledge and how openminded u r. U know what? i really don't give a sh*t if a person like u hate me, it's rather ok.
Gay mans have rites...I dunno what r u trying to say. Yaoi fangirls like yaoi manga, fanfictions, drama cds. In Japan, it's pretty normal, that's why they make those drama cds, that's why musicians perform fanservice. How the hell would we crash those rites man? Think a little pls... Yaoi fangirlism isn't about crashing gay ppls rites... What u wrote is totally out of picture ;)

[typhonblue]

1. Yaoi fangirls are idiots 50% of the time. They seem to know millions of useless facts about yaoi, but when I ask them who the emperor of Japan is, they dont know.

Why don't I ask you an easy math question, Ninja?

What is the sumation of 3x from x=0 to x=3?

2. Yaoi is pedophelia, and I treat all pedophiles equally. By equal, I mean with extreme hatred. Yaoi fangirls/boys don't realize most of the characters in their manga and their own little fantasies about Naruto or Bleach include young men under the age of 18. Lolicon fans get shunned and driven into the ground, for good reason too, and so should female pedophiles as well.

I read yaoi. I am not interested in children sexually. Most of the stories I read involve men around my age, 25-35.

3. They are too populous and complain about everyone hating them all the time.

I wonder why.

4. Gay men have rights, and they don't need to feel uncomfortable being around women that persue them because they want to see some "BL". BL is sick ****, gay guys aren't around for women's entertainment.

What about lesbians and the larger number of straight men who perv on them?

Really I know it is unfair for me to hate yaoi fangirls, but for me it symbolizes the collective degredadtion of the term anime fan. I used to be proud of being an anime fan, but with these girls with their mouthes watering over men have become too numerous over the last two years and give long time fans a bad name. Maybe when the anime fad dies down all the BL and yaoi **** will disapear with all the other untrue female fans, and the remainder of anime fans will be the men and women who kept their composition and did not sucumb to being fools.

Why would you be proud of being an anime fan? Does it somehow make you better then everyone else?

I've never been proud of liking something because I don't base my identity on the things I like. (Rather the things I *do*.)

BTW, what is so bad about "girls with their mouths watering over men" it's not like men are innocent of the same behavior.

[earsofdoom]

One thing that does annoy me a bit is how hostile some of them are, i mean you crack one joke and they are on your *** about how your a homophobe or that you can't appreciate romance becouse your a neo-nazi etc. some of them will even degrade there own gender saying that men are much better then woman and then start listing thing's wrong with female's. seriously do not argue with the fanatical fan's becouse they will not leave you alone... i made one joke and a fangirl would not STFU (and it was one of the loud squeaky one's)

[typhonblue]

One thing that does annoy me a bit is how hostile some of them are, i mean you crack one joke and they are on your *** about how your a homophobe or that you can't appreciate romance becouse your a neo-nazi etc. some of them will even degrade there own gender saying that men are much better then woman and then start listing thing's wrong with female's. seriously do not argue with the fanatical fan's becouse they will not leave you alone... i made one joke and a fangirl would not STFU (and it was one of the loud squeaky one's)

It gets grating how often you have to hear men degrade themselves during the average day. I can understand some women react in the opposite way.

[Jiyuu]

Well i can say that myself isn't the type of fangirl who can't take that kind of jokes, and if someone *****ing about yaoi or homosexuality i just let it slip...Joking is ok, *****ing... well those ppl r just retarded and closeminded. If u don't like something don't bother urself with it. Don't think about it, don't talk about it. Just pretend it doesn't even exist. I do it myself with things os ppl i hate. *****ing about yaoi and fangirls just primitive :)

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

I can perhaps think of a reason why Yaoi Girls are hated.Think of it like this...from an anime,which most fans are male,a the minority female fan group likes to see the males from the anime together.This insults the male fans,and thus making the entire female group hated.

[Ninja337]

I don't care if u hate us lol man :D
And if u think we're all stupid, u just the same .I don't think u know all yaoi fangirls in da world, and stupiditiy istn't up to fangirlism .Oh and Japan's emperor has nothing to do with yaoi , AND if u hate us, and yaoi be sure u know what yaoi means...It doesn't mean pedophilia. So thx for showing off ur knowledge and how openminded u r. U know what? i really don't give a sh*t if a person like u hate me, it's rather ok.
Gay mans have rites...I dunno what r u trying to say. Yaoi fangirls like yaoi manga, fanfictions, drama cds. In Japan, it's pretty normal, that's why they make those drama cds, that's why musicians perform fanservice. How the hell would we crash those rites man? Think a little pls... Yaoi fangirlism isn't about crashing gay ppls rites... What u wrote is totally out of picture ;)
Thank you for defending the intelligence of yaoi fans with the intelligence of your post. Maybe yaoi fans can't spell eaither?

What about lesbians and the larger number of straight men who perv on them?

What about them?

Why would you be proud of being an American (or any other race, nationality, religion, group of people)? Does it somehow make you better then everyone else?

Fixed.

BTW, what is so bad about "girls with their mouths watering over men" it's not like men are innocent of the same behavior.
That doesn't make eaither of them right. Male anime fans that I have met in my ventures have the ability to act appropriately to the situation. Some of the biggest anime fans I know like hentai and fanservice titles, but they don't say, "Lyke omfg Mikuru is t3h hawtness!!11" in a serious Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya discussion. They do it on /e/ or /c/ on 4chan or wherever else this type of dialogue is appropriate. On the other hand, can you people please shut up about how much you like Sasuke, bring your fetish for undeveloped men to not4chan, not every anime message boards around.

[Jiyuu]

Again, spelling is totally off, and maybe i was hurry in typing :] Congrats :]
And no im not defending, just trying to tell u that u dont even want to see other ppls point...
U said every yaoi fangirl stupid.. Wow... Again, im wondering if u know every each of us...
And again, u dont even know what yaoi is, or what is about being a yaoi fangirl:]
Ur really childish :) Thats all i can say. ;)
And man wtf? If ur irritated by those omfg hawtness and all, don't care about them. I don't like it either, but i'm not *****ing about it. And let me tell ya that many girls in the world(who don't even know what yaoi is)is the same, using this stupidity to express themselfs...Not about yaoi, just something else. Let them be like this, u can't do anything with them.

[Ninja337]

I saw other people's points, they are atleast as ugly as mine. I didn't say all yaoi fans are idiots. I said Yaoi fangirls are idiots 50% of the time. Learn how to read. I know what yaoi is, it's a manga or anime series that focus on sexual relationships between two men aimed at women. I think you don't want to see other people's point, and I also think you don't want to see an English class, seeing as you type like a fourfth grader. You really are childish, as my little sister makes better arguments than you.

The only girls I know who act like idiots when it comes to the sexual appeal of someone are anime fans. Most girls talk about it in appropriate places like the girl's lockeroom or on the phone, not on a Naruto thread.

[typhonblue]

I saw other people's points, they are atleast as ugly as mine. I didn't say all yaoi fans are idiots. I said Yaoi fangirls are idiots 50% of the time. Learn how to read. I know what yaoi is, it's a manga or anime series that focus on sexual relationships between two men aimed at women. I think you don't want to see other people's point, and I also think you don't want to see an English class, seeing as you type like a fourfth grader. You really are childish, as my little sister makes better arguments than you.

The only girls I know who act like idiots when it comes to the sexual appeal of someone are anime fans. Most girls talk about it in appropriate places like the girl's lockeroom or on the phone, not on a Naruto thread.

Er... and how many threads are there on the sexual appeal of someone of the female persuasion?

BTW, how do you know that the girls who are talking about Naruto aren't about the age of the character? (I don't know what age Naruto is because I don't watch the anime, but I'm assuming... early teens? That seems typical for most anime. It's one of the things I hate about anime, the obsession with ultra-young protagonists. Could it kill these mangaka's to write about someone in their thirties or, god ****ing forbid, their forties?

[typhonblue]

Fixed.

I actually don't understand why people have pride in random acts of God (namely their race, nationality, ethnicity) either.

Am I proud about being female? No. Canadian? Not particularly. White? Um... negatory.

Am I proud because I'm teh elite coolness cuz I like teh anime? No.

Am I proud because I'm a damn good at math, write like a pro and have suffered my way to first degree white belt in juijutsu? You bet!

That doesn't make eaither of them right. Male anime fans that I have met in my ventures have the ability to act appropriately to the situation.

Right. Like you're acting now.

You're saying most yaoi fans are pedophiles who act like jackasses. And that those that *aren't* should answer for those who *are*.

The guy who was head of the anime club at college lives with his parents and has no friends. He and his male cohort used to perv out on all the boobies, *loudly* while watching anime. So I guess you should answer for their failings too.

Go ahead. Explain why all male anime fans live with their parents, have no friends and perv out on boobies.

[Yakura Shima]

Whoever or whatever Ya-ya-chan is, presumably it can sue if its intellectual property is being used by someone without license to do so, yes.
ya-ya is me, silly! ^.^

[Jiyuu]

Ninja...Basically this topic isn't about my typing, u can open a thread for lessons if u want, i'd be thankful :P Let me mention, english isn't my first language :)
And before u ask why i'm still trying to post here if my english isn't good enough, well ur the first who complaining about it... Maybe u'r just stubborn i dunno...
About being childish, u know it has nothing to do with typing, it starting to get a lil boring...
And i haven't seen any Naruto thread with girls who talking about ppls sexual appeals.. U mean when they starting to make up those fanfics and talk about which pairing is the best?O.o Or they talkin about exactly about gays, homosexuality and all?If they do, then ur rite, those girls r stupid :)
Acting stupid when it comes to homosexuality... Well it's up to what means stupid.. For me it's strange, and i think that stupid is when someone hear the word gay and starts to say REALLY rude things...
We're not the same. If u have even a little tolerance, u can bear with them, like others.

[Animematt55]

wow i sure did miss a lot in my absence....
his yaoi craze is getting totally out of control. I got to the comic store and the shelves have tons of yaoi smut. NOT ON YURI TITLE!

[Yukito Kunisaki]

I know how you feel....I don't even see Kurumi books there, theres Gravitation, LoveLess, and all the others...bah >_<. The Manga companies in America are very cruel >_>.

They get their money, because of Yaoi crazes, yet they don't get the hype with yuri...why? Because they don't SELL them >_<... I hate looking at rightstuf mags now...they made Gravitation their title anime, and I swear, my last mag i looked for Shoujo Ai...nothing...but sure, it still had Sukisho, Gravitation, LoveLess, Kyo Kara Maoh, Target, Yami No Matsuei, and all those other titles.... can't try just TRY to please the shoujo-ai fans...just once if need be?

[typhonblue]

wow i sure did miss a lot in my absence....
his yaoi craze is getting totally out of control. I got to the comic store and the shelves have tons of yaoi smut. NOT ON YURI TITLE!

Here's an idea... why don't you *ask* the publishers to bring over some yuri smut? Instead of incessantly complaining about yaoi?

If you put half the effort into writing letters and getting other yuri-fans to follow suit I'd bet you'd have a few more titles by now.

[Jiyuu]

Totally agree...

[ZoharContact]

...Wow, what brought this about?1. Yaoi fangirls are idiots 50% of the time. They seem to know millions of useless facts about yaoi, but when I ask them who the emperor of Japan is, they dont know.That's not a trait limited to yaoi fans. So many fans of anime watch it with no intention of learning about Japanese or japanese culture. In all honesty, it is the people who so avidly support dubbing and editing that they refuse to watch subtitled anime. They would be the ones who harm the fandom the most, if you ask me.2. Yaoi is pedophelia, and I treat all pedophiles equally.Yaoi involving grade school kids doesn't seem to comprise the majority to me, at a glance. Even if they did, the seiyuu are typically over 18, and it's animated, not really hurting anyone.4. Gay men have rights, and they don't need to feel uncomfortable being around women that persue them because they want to see some "BL". BL is sick ****, gay guys aren't around for women's entertainment.There are a lot of gay men on this forum who seem to enjoy their sexuality being represented in anime, and I like Yuri (non-hentai) for the same reasons. I'm admittedly somewhat bothered that yuri which made it to anime (Kannadzuki no Miko) were mostly made for and catered to men, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy them... although I find Strawberry Panic to be very... strange.

Anyway, as far as "harming the respect of the fandom" goes, what does a layperson think of when you say the word "anime"? The answer would probably be "big robots, big eyes, and big breasted girls in sexually explicit animation." I don't think Yaoi factors very largely into that picture.

[Jiyuu]

Ummm. Can i ask something? Why should all anime/yaoi-fan know facts about japanese culture? There r those kind of fans who just want to enjoy anime. I don't think that's a problem O.o
On the other hand, many anime includes japanese history, and that could give the inspiration to some fans to learn about the culture too :)
*me too me too i started to learn about the meiji and edo era because of kenshin and gohatto :P
About yuri... I didn't think about watching a yuri series until now but now i'm really curious. *Starts dl Kannadzuki no Miko ^^
Hmmm... And not all yaoi story/manga/drama/anime is about underaged kids...
Most of them r about 16-18 yrs old boys, or adults, and there is the thing u call shota, that includes sexual relationship with boys under 14. That's another category, and as far as i know, there r many yaoifans who don't really like shota :)

[Leader Desslock]

...In all honesty, it is the people who so avidly support dubbing and editing that they refuse to watch subtitled anime. They would be the ones who harm the fandom the most, if you ask me.
That's just ignorant. Dub folks are half the fanbase. If you want to know why you have such a large selection of titles at such affordable prices, thank that half of the fanbase for turning anime from a tiny niche audience to a slightly less tiny niche audience that's profitable enough to invest in.

As far as the folks who support the edited dubs: they're the bridge to the mainstream. That's how most mainstream folks get here. Most move on to less edited content, but that doesn't mean they're stupid to start there. They certainly aren't harming the fanbase - they're FEEDING it.

If it matters, I mainly watch subs. ^_^

...anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread...

[DazzleKitty]

1. Yaoi fangirls are idiots 50% of the time. They seem to know millions of useless facts about yaoi, but when I ask them who the emperor of Japan is, they dont know.

Most of the fangirls I have seen are like Japanophiles in their own way. They will only watch subs and like only seiyuu and love J-pop boy bands. They also know quite a bit about Japanese culture.
And, even if you have run into fangirls like that, I don't think it's just exclusive to them. Lots of anime fans don't know much about Japan. I don't really see that as something horribly bad....some people watch it for entertainment, not to learn about another country. But I know some do like to learn about Japan when they see anime.

2. Yaoi is pedophelia, and I treat all pedophiles equally. By equal, I mean with extreme hatred. Yaoi fangirls/boys don't realize most of the characters in their manga and their own little fantasies about Naruto or Bleach include young men under the age of 18. Lolicon fans get shunned and driven into the ground, for good reason too, and so should female pedophiles as well.
Not all yaoi is pedophilia. And I think there is a difference between fantasy and reality. I don't think any fanboys or fangirls are gonna go out and want to have sex with a kid.

3. They are too populous and complain about everyone hating them all the time.
Kind of like what you are doing right now, eh? Showering them with your hatred. I think fangirls take a lot of crap. And I don't like it.

4. Gay men have rights, and they don't need to feel uncomfortable being around women that persue them because they want to see some "BL". BL is sick ****, gay guys aren't around for women's entertainment.
If you feel that way, then it should go for all things. They shouldn't show women naked on late night tv, because they aren't around for men's 'sick' entertainment. They shouldn't show sex at all anywhere, because it will always be offending someone.



Really I know it is unfair for me to hate yaoi fangirls, but for me it symbolizes the collective degredadtion of the term anime fan. I used to be proud of being an anime fan, but with these girls with their mouthes watering over men have become too numerous over the last two years and give long time fans a bad name. Maybe when the anime fad dies down all the BL and yaoi **** will disapear with all the other untrue female fans, and the remainder of anime fans will be the men and women who kept their composition and did not sucumb to being fools.

I don't think there is a definiton of a true anime fan. That's just bull****. Why can't you just stick to what you like, and ignore them? I don't see how they degrade anime fans, because they don't make up a majority of the anime fandom. And I don't think they will be going away anytime soon. I think yaoi is a good thing for girls. Men throughout all times have always had some form of sexual entertainment and women got barely anything. So I hope yaoi is here to stay.
I am not asking you to like fangirls. I wish you would just ignore or tolerate them. I am sick of seeing them bashed by everyone.

[Ninja337]

Yaoi fangirls wouldn't be bashed if they weren't so bashable.
they don't make up a majority of the anime fandom.
They don't need to be a majority.
Men throughout all times have always had some form of sexual entertainment and women got barely anything.
Yeah right, yaoi invented female masterbation.

[DazzleKitty]

^ I am not talking about masterbation. There are plenty of things with sexy, scantily clad women around for men to look at, and plenty of lesbian porn. There has never been anything like that with hot guys for women to enjoy. It's all about the hot chicks.

[Animematt55]

^ I am not talking about masterbation. There are plenty of things with sexy, scantily clad women around for men to look at, and plenty of lesbian porn. There has never been anything like that with hot guys for women to enjoy. It's all about the hot chicks.
Thats cause women are supposed to stay in the kitcheN!! *sarcasm*
But all this Yaoi stuff is giving these little girls a distorted view of homosexual males. Also most have a distorted view of Japan. Thinking all gays are accepted, and it is all good there. Typical anime-fan view.

[Jiyuu]

What do u mean by distorted? (lol and not every yaoi fan is a "little girl" :naughty: ) I look at homosexual guys the same way.
Correction: i don't really care about homosexual guys. I only like yaoi mangas/dramas/stories. Those r not real, and if a girl mistakes it to reality, well that's some kind of naivety.
Accepting gays in Japan is really natural you know. If you read back not just japanese, but even in chinese and greek history, homosexuality was part of the daily life. In Japan, mostly in the 15-19th for example. No i'm not making this up, and no i'm not saying it because of some anime/manga or fanfiction, it's simply history.
I even read the book "Man colors". Really interesting one, and gives a clear picture about homosexuality in Japan. I didn't wrote this down cuz i'm oh-so-yaoi addicted but to tell u that this isn't some distorted view...

[Animematt55]

IS this modern? or ancient?
Cause in pratcially ALL ancient cultures, every guy was basically BI. It was a part of life. Men would work, then go out and party wit each other.....havign sex with both men and women, of all ages.

[Jiyuu]

So? what part of it is a distorted or typical anime- view?:)
In Japan, homosexuality is accepted even in these days. Well let's say that it's more accepted than in Europe :P

[Animematt55]

Do you live in Japan? if not, be quiet. You dont know what is accepted in Japan, more than America.
There are people that say that gays are accepted in America. But with this administration, and recent laws show obviously, we have all taken a step BACK in civil rights.
I dont live in Japan, so i dont know how accepted gays are. I know they have a lot more magazines and such for them. So i am only assuming that they are more accepted in Japan.
I have heard some pretty bad hate speech from people in Japan. But of course those were from fanatical religious freaks.

[Jiyuu]

First of all, don't order me to be quiet on a forum :)
Second: Living out of Japan doesn't mean i don't know some facts about this matter.
Third: I wasn't talkin about America either, i mention Europe cuz i'm living here.
Oh and i said that in Japan, ppl's tolerance is bigger than in Europe, if it comes to male homosexuality. And with this i was just reacting to this part of ur post:

Also most have a distorted view of Japan. Thinking all gays are accepted, and it is all good there. Typical anime-fan view.

I dont live in Japan, so i dont know how accepted gays are. I know they have a lot more magazines and such for them. So i am only assuming that they are more accepted in Japan.

And here, ur talkin about the same thing as me...

[DazzleKitty]

Thats cause women are supposed to stay in the kitcheN!! *sarcasm*
But all this Yaoi stuff is giving these little girls a distorted view of homosexual males. Also most have a distorted view of Japan. Thinking all gays are accepted, and it is all good there. Typical anime-fan view.

Um, okay. If you want to use that logic, you better stay away from shoujo-ai and yuri, because it will give you a distorted view on lesbians. You better go warn all your fanboys friends that too since you were kind enough to warn us fangirls!

I don't even know how the whole gay rights thing stands in Japan. I hear they are more accepted, but being gay definently isn't encouraged or viewed in a positive way.

[Animematt55]

Dazzle, your off topic, this is about yaoi fangirls.

[DazzleKitty]

Dazzle, your off topic, this is about yaoi fangirls.

I'm sorry. Forgive me, o' mighty one. :P

Or I could use one of your quotes..."the truth hurts", was it?

[Jiyuu]

Basically the whole gay-accepting thing is off... :)

[typhonblue]

Jiyuu I think you're refering to "Male Colors: The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan." by Gary Leupp.

It's a really great read, particularly for people who think Yaoi is "degrading" anime and Japanese society.

[Jiyuu]

Jiyuu I think you're refering to "Male Colors: The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan." by Gary Leupp.

Correct.
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0520209001.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

It's a really great read, particularly for people who think Yaoi is "degrading" anime and Japanese society.

Exactly.

[Ninja337]

^ I am not talking about masterbation. There are plenty of things with sexy, scantily clad women around for men to look at, and plenty of lesbian porn. There has never been anything like that with hot guys for women to enjoy. It's all about the hot chicks.
That isn't true at all. There are plenty of nude strippers and plenty of pornography that is targeted at a female audience. Just turn on a TV advertisement. They often depict middle aged women being picked up off their feet and being whisked away to I can't believe it's not butter -land. Also reality TV gives alot of fanservice to girls, always picking Russian dancers who take their shirt off or flamboyant men on Fear Factor or Brig Brother.


I don't even know how the whole gay rights thing stands in Japan. I hear they are more accepted, but being gay definently isn't encouraged or viewed in a positive way.

Gay does not work the same way in Japan as it does for Europe and America. For the most part in Japanese terminology, gay guys and crossdressers are closely related, closer than in the west. Japanese Homosexuals that equivalate to Western gays don't get much of their own terms like gays do in America because of this.

Yaoi is not an accurate representation of homosexuals in Japan at all, and unfortunately for them, they are not always the top of the class, elitist, cute and athletic, pretty boys that are in Boy's Love titles. If you think they are accurate, then you suck.

As for homophobia in Japan, there isn't any violent outrage against homosexuals like there is in other Asian and Western countries, like there are in China, Thailand, Iran, US etc... However, gay men are usually laughing stocks on Television and in the biased media.
You don't see any gay PDAs, mostly because you don't see any PDA at all.

[Animematt55]

That isn't true at all. There are plenty of nude strippers and plenty of pornography that is targeted at a female audience. Just turn on a TV advertisement. They often depict middle aged woen being picked up off their feat and being whisked away to I can't believe it's not butter -land. Also reality TV gives alot of fanservice to girls, always picking Russian dancers who take their shirt off or flamboyant men on Fear Factor or Brig Brother.


Very true. All these damn "reality shows" always have hunky, pretty guys with bulging muslces..... Sayign that there is no fanservice for girls is just plain ignorant.
Heck, they even have porno for women....it is called PlayGirl. We all know how you like sausage dazzle.

[Jiyuu]

Yaoi is not an accurate representation of homosexuals in Japan at all, and unfortunately for them, they are not always the top of the class, elitist, cute and athletic, pretty boys that are in Boy's Love titles. If you think they are accurate, then you suck.

I wrote the same thing. Girls who mistakes fantasy for reality are way too naive, and have their own lil' world. Maybe someday they will notice their bluntness.

[DazzleKitty]

That isn't true at all. There are plenty of nude strippers and plenty of pornography that is targeted at a female audience. Just turn on a TV advertisement. They often depict middle aged women being picked up off their feet and being whisked away to I can't believe it's not butter -land. Also reality TV gives alot of fanservice to girls, always picking Russian dancers who take their shirt off or flamboyant men on Fear Factor or Brig Brother.

There is not plenty of pornography targeted at a female audience. Everytime I see it, it's always girl on girl, beastiality with girls, anal with girls, etc etc. There may be some porn for girls, but I sure haven't seen any. Playgirl may be the only thing we have. I haven't seen a PlayGirl magazine in years, but from what I remember, they really don't show much on the guy except the shirts off.
Most of the porn out there has ugly, nasty, hairy guys.
Reality tv gives some fanservice to both genders. For the most part, guys get the most. Just look at billboards even. They never have any cute guys on them...just girls in bikinis and such. Guys get a lot more 'fanservice'.



Yaoi is not an accurate representation of homosexuals in Japan at all, and unfortunately for them, they are not always the top of the class, elitist, cute and athletic, pretty boys that are in Boy's Love titles. If you think they are accurate, then you suck.


I don't think most fangirls care about the accuracy, because we read it for entertainment. We don't go around evaluating how much we know about it and why we like it, like you are doing. It's fiction. It's a fantasy land. We know gays aren't viewed in real life like our yaoi manga portrays them. We read it to avoid reality and get into a fantasy world. That's the point of most manga/anime. It's not all gonna be realistic.

[Animematt55]

Where are you from Dazzle?? It sounds like a smut dry zone to me.

Oh, and the reason you don't see as much porn for girls is...cause most girls don't want to see a man' sausage. I know ZERO girls that actually like to see below the waist.

If you want porn, do a simple google search....I am sure you will find a lot. But you don't like how most of the guys are hairy??? Can't really do much about that...guys are naturally hairy....I know no guy that is naturally hairless.

Why go around complainign about stuff like that? Heck, you got all that yaoi smut....

The point of thsi thread is discussing why all these yaoi fangirls go all crazy over it...

[DazzleKitty]

Why do you need to find a reason why girls go crazy over it? Isn't the fact the girls LIKE seeing two attractive guys together enough? Why do you like yuri?

No, it's not a smut dry zone. I've been into a couple adult stores, and most of the movies and magazines are targeted to guys. Smut is everywhere...just most of it is for guys. Yes, I am aware most guys are hairy, and I think it's a dang shame. Girls can be hairy too. We choose to shave. I think guys should do that too. It would be a great improvement.

Most of the girls I talk to like to see below the waist. Maybe the ones you associate with are like you and don't like smut. I think a lot of women are generalized as not liking smut, so they just don't have any good visual stuff for them, which is a shame.

Have you ever watched late night tv? All it has is pretty girls and girl on girl stuff. That's fine for guys, but what about the women viewers?

I am aware there is a nice amount of yaoi smut (and even more being licensed, yay!). However, out of the whole anime and manga department, there is hardly anything for women when it comes to smut (except maybe some romance novels). I think that's why so many girls flock to yaoi. It's finally something they can enjoy.

[typhonblue]

Where are you from Dazzle?? It sounds like a smut dry zone to me.

Oh, and the reason you don't see as much porn for girls is...cause most girls don't want to see a man' sausage. I know ZERO girls that actually like to see below the waist.

Now you know one. Me. I'm married and I very much love every part of my husband.

If you want porn, do a simple google search....I am sure you will find a lot. But you don't like how most of the guys are hairy??? Can't really do much about that...guys are naturally hairy....I know no guy that is naturally hairless.

No woman is naturally hairless either.

Hairiness *is* a male trait, but carrying more body fat is a female trait. A lot of pornography takes this hairiness male trait to an extreme. It's the equivalent of seeing a 500-lb woman preforming sex acts. Yes extra body fat is a female trait but it ceases to be attractive in any sense when it's carried to an extreme.

Are you suggesting that men who don't like 500-lb women (since they represent a female trait taken to an extreme) don't like women?

Why go around complainign about stuff like that? Heck, you got all that yaoi smut....

Yep. And that's pretty much it. Probably why yaoi eclipses yuri and always will, there is just more female sexual energy flowing through it because it has no where else to go.

The point of thsi thread is discussing why all these yaoi fangirls go all crazy over it...

I think the point of this thread was to discuss the disproportionate amount of anger directed at yaoi fan girls.

[Jiyuu]

If you want porn, do a simple google search....I am sure you will find a lot. But you don't like how most of the guys are hairy??? Can't really do much about that...guys are naturally hairy....I know no guy that is naturally hairless.

If you want to know, there are more less porns for girls than for boys. That's all. And if someone don't want to see two guys together in real, she still can enjoy yaoi. That's why we're happy we have this chance.
The point of thsi thread is discussing why all these yaoi fangirls go all crazy over it...

So what? Other ppl go crazy over something else. Can't this be our business?
Or you, my friend will hate a girl just because she likes yaoi? U know what? Ninja at least named the problem he has with an additional kind of fangirls. The stupidity. You boy just saying various stupid things, orders ppl to be quiet on a forum just for nothing, and just don't have any normal reason. Make up one, than we can continue.

Oh, and the reason you don't see as much porn for girls is...cause most girls don't want to see a man' sausage. I know ZERO girls that actually like to see below the waist.

Wow... How old r u and the girls u know?:D Actually if a girl over 16 don't want to see a man's sausage, there may be some problem. Ok let'say over 18...:)

[typhonblue]

Wow... How old r u and the girls u know?:D Actually if a girl over 16 don't want to see a man's sausage, there may be some problem. Ok let'say over 18...:)

Yes. At the very least there is the curiousity factor. :teehee:

[Animematt55]

i would of posted this sooner, but i went to bed early....
The problem i have with yaoi fangirls is that they are close-minded.....anoying...and stupid...

[Ninja337]

There is not plenty of pornography targeted at a female audience. Everytime I see it, it's always girl on girl, beastiality with girls, anal with girls, etc etc. There may be some porn for girls, but I sure haven't seen any. Playgirl may be the only thing we have. I haven't seen a PlayGirl magazine in years, but from what I remember, they really don't show much on the guy except the shirts off.
Most of the porn out there has ugly, nasty, hairy guys.
Reality tv gives some fanservice to both genders. For the most part, guys get the most. Just look at billboards even. They never have any cute guys on them...just girls in bikinis and such. Guys get a lot more 'fanservice'.


Umm... Maybe you are spending too much time on 4chan and in Strawberries?


I think the point of this thread was to prove or provoke the disproportionate amount of anger directed at yaoi fan girls.
Fixed.

Sofar this thread has proved many yaoi fans are overprovokable and are thus incompetant.

[Jiyuu]

i would of posted this sooner, but i went to bed early....
The problem i have with yaoi fangirls is that they are close-minded.....anoying...and stupid...
1st:Heard about exceptions?
2nd: Not only yaoi fangirls can be closeminded, annoying and stupid. If those r ur reasons, u might hate many many ppl...
3rd: Ur closeminded too and have ZERO tolerance.

[Animematt55]

no...i have tolerance....i actually read/watch soem shonen-ai. But i don't like all the sumt out there right now.
i seriously don't get how a guy rapign another guy is 'cute' or 'sweet'.
I woul dlike to see these yaoigirls watch or read somethign that actually has a good storyline to it.

[earsofdoom]

i seriously don't get how a guy rapign another guy is 'cute' or 'sweet'.


Please don't remind me of that AMV i saw on youtube involving corn....
i can't remember what it was called... boku something-or-other just thought I'd try to save some Yoai fan's from seeing that

[Animematt55]

haha, i thought that was kinda funny. (too bad that would tear the inside) It was boku-no-sexul harasment or something like that.....
BTW....those guys were pretty darn ugly... I heard they also use a wine bottle.....i really hope that doesn't break....

[same_animefan]

Matt, I have to say, there are plenty of gay-man-stories with a good plot. Damn near anything by Poppy Z Bright; has sex but isn't porn and is focused on the story and relationships (especially her series with Rickey and G-man) and Anne Rice has plenty of undertones in her writing.

Just because you don't like the plots in the Yaoi/Shonen-ai/Bl (whatever you must call it) series in manga or anime, doesn't mean that others don't actually like them. Or that they don't read anything outside of manga, or watch anything outside of Anime Yaoi. Though I'm sure there are those who simply watch manga and anime for their pretty boy fix. Of course, same thing goes for people and Yuri/Shojo-ai (again, whatever you must call it)

Of course, I'm curious as to what you consider a good plot. Because, in porn, of course there isn't going to be a plot. People watch porn for sex, (Sensitive pornograph. level-c, legend of blue wolves, Boko no sexual harassment...the list continues) Case and Point.

Personally, I loved the story lines of Gravitation, FAKE, Eerie Queeri (quite cute ^_~). But of course, those were not aimed at to be porn either.

Oh, and just one question on the why girls think it's cute to see guys rape other guys. Now, who said it was cute? In real life, no, no rape is 'cute' or 'sweet'. But in yaoi manga and anime, those are done where the two actually end up falling in love in the end >_> which would then be the cute part; the relationship that then develops.

Of course, simply reading it for porn’s sake...Rough sex=Hot. No one actually gets 'hurt' in manga Yaoi rape scenes...well, maybe in some...though I haven't read any.

[earsofdoom]

Of course, I'm curious as to what you consider a good plot. Because, in porn, of course there isn't going to be a plot. People watch porn for sex, (Sensitive pornograph. level-c, legend of blue wolves, Boko no sexual harassment...the list continues) Case and Point.


im a bit relieved that boku no sexual harassment isn't a shounen-ai title... since it was labeled that on the shoujo-ai/shounen ai AMV, it's kinda hard to tell since Yaoi and shounen-ai are alway's used differently. guess i don't have to warn the fan's about corn then.

[same_animefan]

^Ah yes, Yaoi and Shonen-ai seem to always be at ends on this site, huh? lol. But yeah, I don't believe Sexual haressment was a shonen-ai ^_^ Most likely she didn't know the difference when labling it.

Yes, yes, the corn scene...no comment xD Not so bad the second time around, though I still find myself trying not to laugh sometimes ^^ haha.

[Animematt55]

I have read EErie Queerie (i hate that title....) and it wasnt too bad....that priest got REALLY annoying. FAKE....meh, the main character's didn't sit well with me.
Gravi...i just recently downlaoded it and have yet to watch it (i am behind on A LOT of stuff) I have heard mixed reviews, and rom them it sounds lke i will hate the main couple. (i don't get why someone would become obsessed with some *******)
How about some of you go out and read Yuri with gret plots? Maria-sama ga Miteru, Battle Athletes (one of the best, especially if you liek comedy), Noir has some nice undertones....but was a little slow... Kanazuki no Miko....the list goes on and on. I was quite amazed when a shoujo-ai title became licenced, but it seems more for the mecha side of things.

And i also dont get how yo ucan fall in love with someone who rapes you. I would make it my life goal to kill them.

[Jiyuu]

no...i have tolerance....i actually read/watch soem shonen-ai. But i don't like all the sumt out there right now. seriously don't get how a guy rapign another guy is 'cute' or 'sweet'.I woul dlike to see these yaoigirls watch or read somethign that actually has a good storyline to it.
Yesterday 10:56 PM

If ur openminded and even read shonen-ai stories, i still can't understand why r u talkin about yaoi fangirls like that... U still haven't mention any acceptable reason.

BUT, if you are really that open-minded and has the mood later to read a good one, here:
Loveless [this one is shonen-ai and has a rather dramatic story, but one of the best shonen-ai mangas, and u can find even shoujo-ai in it]
Love mode[yes this is yaoi, and include even rape, yet if u continue in the story, u can find it really entertaining, and this series is one of the most famous ones]
You can read good yaoi mangas from Takashima Kazusa, whoes sex scenes rn't that graphic, and her stories r CUTE ,yes CUTE, but mostly of them r oneshots.
And of course there r plenty of yaoi/shonen-ai manga that worth reading, it's not the fangirls' fault that u didn't find interesting or enjoyable enough what u read already.

And finally,fangirls, why r we arguing really? No way that the guys who r trying to provoke us have any intension to change their opinion about the fangirls, no matter how many times we say our reasons. If they hate us let it be, i think we can still continue our fangirlism, without caring about them. I won't commit suicide because of something like this.
I accept they hate me and other yaoifans, it's the best thing i can do, it got really funny how we trying to defend ourselfs against something like this. Many kind of ppl r hated, for many reasons, they can live together with it.


~END~

[Animematt55]

If ur openminded and even read shonen-ai stories, i still can't understand why r u talkin about yaoi fangirls like that... U still haven't mention any acceptable reason.
I think ou read yaoi, not shonen-ai, cuz shonen-ai doesn't include sex.
BUT, if you are really that open-minded and has the mood later to read a good one, here:
Loveless [this one is shonen-ai and has a rather dramatic story, but one of the best shonen-ai mangas, and u can find even shoujo-ai in it]
Love mode[yes this is yaoi, and include even rape, yet if u continue in the story, u can find it really entertaining, and this series is one of the most famous]
You can read good yaoi mangas from Takashima Kazusa, whoes sex scenes rn't that graphic, and her stories r CUTE ,yes CUTE, but mostly of them r oneshots.
And of course there r plenty of yaoi/shonen-ai manga that worth reading, it's not the fangirls' fault that u didn't find interesting or enjoyable enough what u read already.

And finally,fangirls, why r we arguing really? No way that the guys who r trying to provoke us have any intension to change their opinion about the fangirls, no matter how many times we say our reasons. If they hate us let it be, i think we can still continue our fangirlism, without caring about them. I won't commit suicide because of something like this.
I accept they hate me and other yaoifans, it's the best thing i can do, it got really funny how we trying to defend ourselfs against something like this. Many kind of ppl r hated, for many reasons, they can live together with it.


~END~
Oh yes, i have Loveless....forgot to list it. I am refusing to buy the DVD cause they put the ugliest covers ever on them.

nd yet you didnt even asnwer the other part of my statement. Face it, you dont care about good plot, or story line at all.... If you did you would have a more expanded horizon. Just like most yaoi girls.

[Jiyuu]

U mean i should read or watch them? Well i don't have intension to do so.
The reason is very simple, i'm not interested in yuri. I don't hate it, nor the fans of it, i'm just not interested.

nd yet you didnt even asnwer the other part of my statement. Face it, you dont care about good plot, or story line at all....

Excuse me but, u can't be this retarded. First of all, good storyline doesn't mean the same thing to me and you.
You saw or know about only a smack of shonen-ai/yaoi stories, unlike me, so you shouldn't post this kind of statements. You're extremely tyring.
And if after all this you still saying that there r no yaoi/shonen-ai stories with good storyline, you really are an idiot, thinking you know everything about this topic. Well let me tell you, you're in an extremely big need of enlightenment about what we're talkin about.

[Animematt55]

so your kind of admitting you dont liek yuri just cause it doesnt have two boys kissing....fairly stupid reason i think. You peopel always say "i am not interestted in it" Well what doesnt interest yo uabout it? It is the same thign as yaoi...only *GASP* two girls!!! Oh noes, if you watch that you might become a lesbian!

[Jiyuu]

so your kind of admitting you dont liek yuri just cause it doesnt have two boys kissing....fairly stupid reason i think. You peopel always say "i am not interestted in it" Well what doesnt interest yo uabout it? It is the same thign as yaoi...only *GASP* two girls!!! Oh noes, if you watch that you might become a lesbian!

Again, making up things on ur own. Congrat.
Yes, i'm not interested in two girls, cuz i'm a girl, and i'm interested in two boys. So what? U don't like yaoi and yaoi fangirls, i'm not interested in yuri. I hope u see the difference.
Saying that i would think i'd be lesbian if i see it.. Well grats again, i would think ur a gay now, cuz u've seen some shonen-ai...

[Animematt55]

That is the most close-minded reasoning i have heard. How pathetic, you just watch Yaoi to watch two guys go at it? pathetic.....your no better than those underage boys that are obsessed with hentai.
Ther eis nothign wrong with watching a TV show that has two girls in it...Hell most yuri only hitns at relationships, and never fully reveals them. Silly little fangirl, try beign more open to various forms of enterainment. Watching a quick little kiss scene in an anime wont hurt you... Also lke i said, most Yuri doesnt even have that much.

[Jiyuu]

You are totally pointless you know, and seems you misreading what i'm typing.

That is the most close-minded reasoning i have heard. How pathetic, you just watch Yaoi to watch two guys go at it? pathetic.....your no better than those underage boys that are obsessed with hentai.Ther eis nothign wrong with watching a TV show that has two girls in it...Hell most yuri only hitns at relationships, and never fully reveals them. Silly little fangirl, try beign more open to various forms of enterainment. Watching a quick little kiss scene in an anime wont hurt you... Also lke i said, most Yuri doesnt even have that much.

I have never said i have any problem with yuri,or its wrong to watch it. i wrote 10 minutes ago that im just not interested in it. I thought u knew what that means. And if im not interested in something, that doesnt mean im closeminded or pathetic, *****ing about it while i know about it nothing IS.

Dont put me in the same category as underaged hentai addicted guys, first im not a guy, second, im not underaged, and finally, im not watching only yaoi, i like various kind of animes. And wow, i liked the shoujo-ai part in Loveless too.
Funny u call me silly little fangirl while u cant say one apprehensive thing, yet using the same words (like closeminded) as me, on...me...And on top of that, without knowing what it means, expecially in this arguing.
I'm tired of talkin to you. U just keep saying random shitiness out of the blue.
Nice talkin to ya in the future.

[Animematt55]

yet you said...you dont liek shoujo-ai cause it has two girls in it.....that sounds close minded to me. You claim to like all kinds of anime, yet you avoid a small part of it, simply because two girls might kiss.

[DazzleKitty]

Jesus Matt, nobody ever said they hated shoujo-ai. All you do is parade around the yaoi threads and spout out bullsh*t to try to p*ss us all off.

I think you are closed-minded for not liking or watching yaoi with rape. Because you should be able to sit through a rape scene if the actual plot is good. Heck, you should even be able to watch the most abusive relationship ever. If you expect us to watch shoujo-ai with plot, then those things should surely be accomplished by you.

i would of posted this sooner, but i went to bed early....
The problem i have with yaoi fangirls is that they are close-minded.....anoying...and stupid...

I think YOU are the closed-minded, stupid, and annoying person. Thanks for just insulting us all. We aren't the ones coming to this thead using redundant comments and complete bullsh*t to defend outselves. If someone doesn't like yuri, you go all psycho on them and call them closed-minded. No yaoi fan here has even said they hated yuri, yet you call them all closed-minded. You refuse to watch most of the yaoi out there with any hint of what you call an 'abusive' relationship. If you can be let off with crappy excuses like that, then I deem that ours are acceptable too. God dang it, you are so damn STUPID sometimes. And I'm in a bad mood tonight. Ugh.

I was at aarinfantasy, and about 70% of the girls there are SHOUJO-AI fans. I went to a yuri forum, and they were wall bashing yaoi. I wonder why?

no...i have tolerance....i actually read/watch soem shonen-ai. But i don't like all the sumt out there right now.
i seriously don't get how a guy rapign another guy is 'cute' or 'sweet'.
I woul dlike to see these yaoigirls watch or read somethign that actually has a good storyline to it.

As mentioned by someone previously, some girls like how they fall in love. Some find the rape to be a hot, turn-on factor. You may not see it as cute or hot, but some do. I am sorry, but they just do.

That is the most close-minded reasoning i have heard. How pathetic, you just watch Yaoi to watch two guys go at it? pathetic.....your no better than those underage boys that are obsessed with hentai.
Ther eis nothign wrong with watching a TV show that has two girls in it...Hell most yuri only hitns at relationships, and never fully reveals them. Silly little fangirl, try beign more open to various forms of enterainment. Watching a quick little kiss scene in an anime wont hurt you... Also lke i said, most Yuri doesnt even have that much.

Whoo hoo! Look who is narrow-mindedly spewing insults at everyone once again!

Yes, I think lots of girls watch yaoi to see two guys go at it. Same for lots of yuri boys. Matt, do you watch yuri for plot? Because there are other things with great plots out there, so why exclusively yuri? Perhaps it's for the same reasons we watch yaoi. After all, you could watch het or beastiality with an amazing plot.

Most of the yaoi and yuri I have seen don't have an amazing plot. Loveless and Mirage of Blaze have decent ones. Sukisho and Gravi are just fanservicey fluff for girls, mostly. I wouldn't have enjoyed them nearly as much as I did if they weren't BL. I have seen Kannazuki, and there is nothing amazing about it. Actually, the plot isn't that great except for those who like shoujo-ai, in my opinion. I'm not bashing it, so please don't take it that way. I said the same thing about some of the shounen-ai series so I wouldn't be taken as one-sided.

And, did Jiyuu even say she was afraid to watch yuri because she would be lesbian, or she didn't want to see two girls kiss? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. She just doesn't care for it. God. She didn't even say she hated it or the fans. She just doesn't care for it!! Why must you bring this up everywhere? Why don't you leave them alone? Why must you feel the need to turn every yaoi-fangirl into a rabid yuri fangirl? Why don't you go to some yuri forums and try to convert some of them to yaoi? You're biased!

Matt, I have to say, there are plenty of gay-man-stories with a good plot. Damn near anything by Poppy Z Bright; has sex but isn't porn and is focused on the story and relationships (especially her series with Rickey and G-man) and Anne Rice has plenty of undertones in her writing.


I tried reading one of Brite's books (Exquisite Corpse) and I couldn't finish it. It was too.....macabre, grotesque, and weird. :P

I have read over halfway through Cry to Heaven by Anne Rice (didn't finish for some reason. I got distracted with school work). It had a great plot, but it started to get boring on the last 2/5 of the book. That may have been another factor in me not finishing.

[Animematt55]

Dazzle, you havent even watched any shoujo-ai so your not allowed to speak for it. You have onyl seen a few episodes of KnM. You havent even tried Battle Athletes or Maria-sama ga Miteru. Both with excellent Plots. If you like romance and angsty stuff, Maria-sama is for you. If you like comedy stuff, Batte Atheletes is perfect. I have actually tried quite a few shonen-ai manga/anime. Heck, you could almost sya i have seen more complete shonen-ai series than shoujo-ai ones. ( I am THAT far behind in watching everything)
And Kanazuki no Miko...it is a Mecha aniem first...shoujo second.

and same_ i am well aware of Anne Rice's books. I have read Lestat, Queen of the Damned, and Pandora. Hoenestly, kinda hard to get though, cause of her writign style.

[DazzleKitty]

WTF? I just said I watched Kannazuki, and I have seen Steel Angel Kurumi 2 and seen Madlax and Sailor Moon (which I view as shoujo-ai).

Do you even read what people write?

[Animematt55]

Sailor Moon isnt shoujo-ai...it is Magical Girl, and SHoujo. I havent even heard of Madlax... and SAK2...i have it...havent watched it, but it is ment more for a male audience, and a comedy audience

[DazzleKitty]

Sailor Moon has shoujo-ai, that's enough for me.

Okay, so now what? The shoujo-ai I have watched don't count as shoujo-ai? Isn't Battle Athletes a sports anime? So that can't be shoujo-ai either.

You're just too much. Arguing with you is tiring and pointless. I keep on hoping you can see just how aweful you sound, but you just can't. It's hopeless. Wow!

[Animematt55]

Yes Battle Athletes is a sport anime, but it also has a lot of shojou-ai in it. both subtle, and blatetly obvious....like going on a rampage with a cow after you hear the love of your life has a 'close female friend" Hilarious stuff. If you like fun, comedy anime Battle Athletes is a classic

[DazzleKitty]

Sometimes I feel like you run of out witty comebacks, so you tackle something else. Suddenly, the shoujo-ai I have watched isn't actually shoujo-ai. You know I have seen Kannazuki and SAK2. You said that SAK2 is for fanboys. Well, so is Kannazuki, Strawberry Panic, etc....they all target males. The only one I can see having a really great shoujo storyline is Maria-sama. Now, I haven't actually seen any of the fansubs of the newer shoujo-ai stuff, so I don't know how good it is (I kinda wanna see SP, though. I can't download most fansubs on this comp, so that sucks).


Oh, and I have seen Seraphim Call, which I also consider to be shoujo-ai. And Loveless has it. I even bought a yuri manga today to see what it was like.

You can't say I haven't seen that many, because I have.

[Jiyuu]

AARRRGHHH LOVELESS HAS A REALLY GOOD STORY NOT A DECENT ONE X***
:D And the drawing is extremely beautiful. I cant stop listening to Michiyuki :_] [Loveless opening] the problem is that they stopped the anime at where the story gets more and more exciting >.< No prob i have the manga and its really...WOW i just love it :D They licensed it too thou... -.-

[DazzleKitty]

Ah...Michiyuki is probably one of the prettiest anime songs I have ever heard. I can listen to it over and over.

[Jiyuu]

Yes but i can get depressed by it easily. The lyrics r very sad :_[ But its really beautiful :]

[same_animefan]

I tried reading one of Brite's books (Exquisite Corpse) and I couldn't finish it. It was too.....macabre, grotesque, and weird. :P

I have read over halfway through Cry to Heaven by Anne Rice (didn't finish for some reason. I got distracted with school work). It had a great plot, but it started to get boring on the last 2/5 of the book. That may have been another factor in me not finishing.

Ah, but that's why I love Brite's work ^_~ I love the darkness and gory plots ^_^ I look so innocent in real life, but then start talking to me and people just give me the look of shock : O_O, that I like that stuff xD.

Maybe you should try her Ricky and G-man series though. It isn't dark at all or gory like her other works. They're cooks. It starts with The Value of X, then Liqure, and then Prime, and Soul Kitchen is the latest book though I'm not sure if it's out yet. It's actually really good but a ***** to find in stores around here >_> I wanted to read Equisite Corpse :P.

Yeah, read cry to heaven. That's about where I stopped too. Though, it was only because if I read one more 'dainty little sholders" comment or her skin I was going to scream. It was a nice description the first time aroubd, but she just kept going on and on with it >_> Oi-vey.

and same_ i am well aware of Anne Rice's books. I have read Lestat, Queen of the Damned, and Pandora. Hoenestly, kinda hard to get though, cause of her writign style.

Ha, you've read more than me ^_~ I agree, her style of writing kinda takes me in circles to the point that during her description I forget what I'm even reading about. Of course, she is a well known and skilled writer, and her stories are still good, even if a little hard to get through.

And, actually...KnM...isn't that liscenced now? I think it is; was actually thinking of trying it...though it looks very bubbley. Not that ADV ever gives a good Trailer besides music and screen caps :P What is it about, really? I'm not too sure.

[DazzleKitty]

You mean Kannazuki no Miko, right? It was licensed by Geneon. The first two volumes are out now. Some people already got volume three (due out in the beginning of August).

It's pretty decent from what I have seen.

[same_animefan]

Maybe I'll check out the first volume if I happen to see it during my next trip to best buy ^^ still gotta get the 3rd volume to GSDestiny xD lol.

[earsofdoom]

Maybe I'll check out the first volume if I happen to see it during my next trip to best buy ^^ still gotta get the 3rd volume to GSDestiny xD lol.

Be sure to get the LE edition, it come's with a reversable cover, pencil board, and small artbook. the other 2 come with stuff also (even though volume 2 only come's with a pencil board it's still an extra) not sure if you can still get the first volume special edition with a PRETTY art box and shell necklace.... of course you could just buy all the normal edition's for several dollar's less but all the extra's are very nice (just remember not to use the pencil board's to draw with... they scratch easy) just thought i'd try to be helpful.

[Animematt55]

geez, they are releasing way too much stuff for me to keep up.....
I love the little extras you can get with them....but they get so expensive....
Also, with KnM it seems that it was licenced more for the mecha aspect of it, or so i hear. It kind of mixes shoujo, and shonen.....

[same_animefan]

^ as long as it isn't all...hyper-happy-cute ^^;; I really can't stand any show like that, anime/manga/live-action/het/yuri/yaoi; can't stand it XD.

I may not bother with the extras though :P I'd rather just buy the dvd and see if I like it first xD. I'm not one for box sets anyways, unless it's the whole sereis ^_^. I'll probaly check this series out no matter what now though, I'm curious ^_~ lol.

[earsofdoom]

^ as long as it isn't all...hyper-happy-cute ^^;; I really can't stand any show like that, anime/manga/live-action/het/yuri/yaoi; can't stand it XD.

I may not bother with the extras though :P I'd rather just buy the dvd and see if I like it first xD. I'm not one for box sets anyways, unless it's the whole sereis ^_^. I'll probaly check this series out no matter what now though, I'm curious ^_~ lol.

It's not the happiest show, the main character suffer's quite a bit with her feeling's (not becouse she's in denial or ashamed... just that she is afraid of what the other girl might think) Add unto that the fact that there's a guy constantly trying to get the girl she love's and you have pure emotional hell for poor Chikane. also the other girl Himeko is in denial, it's very obvious she has feeling for Chikane more then a friend but she think's of them as "weird". but it does have a happy ending for them.... just be sure to watch past the credit's.

[same_animefan]

^ haha, yeah, the summery I read warned about there being a 'conclusion' after the credits xD. Ok, so it's not all happy-go-lucky. Maybe I shall like this ^_^.

[Jiyuu]

Finally, the mood in this topic changed... In a good way :]

[Animematt55]

Must....highjack....thread...again.... *SNAP*

I don't see why people dislike happy series. Hell i cant watch too much angsty stuff in one setting, or else i get super depressed.....Should of seen me after Saikano....i cant brign myself to watch the OAV either....

Curiously....I read some opinions on OOran Host Club. I havent seen it myself but i will (I LOVE crossdressign girls) Very mixed. A lot of girls hate that there is a girl in it......

But some like how the main girl isnt "standard shoujo girl" which i don't really understand at all..... Oh, and those twins are not cute. Incest is disgusting......

[same_animefan]

*rolls eyes* You just looove hijacking threads, don't you? :P I don't dislike 'happy series' I liked gravitation, slightly angsty but crack filled and Shuuichi was anything but depressed xD. I just don't like series that are...rot-your-teeth-sweet. Probably the best way to describe it.

Never scene Saikano, I think it's the fact that she looks so young is what keeps me from seeing it (That is the series with the...what is she? A robot girl? Some type of weapon that she turns into). *shrugs* dunno. But you should have scene me after watching the last Samurai X OVA x_X jesus, could they have MADE that any more depressing? No, I don't think they could have. But what they did to him! AH! That just floored me >> I won't say it for people who haven't seen the show, but damn X_X.

[Animematt55]

Saikano. Saishu Heiki Kanjo. She the Ultimate weapon. She is a regular, clumsy girl who gets turned into...well basically a weapon....Most depressing anime i have ever seen. She is supposed to look young and frail looking, it is part of her character.
If you like Gravi, yo umay Like Strawberry Panic. It isnt really 'rot your teeth sweet'. It has some angsty, depression stuff too.

I have watched some of Gravi....i do NOT like the main characters....they just don't...fit to me. Shuichi is a whiny, obsessive little boy, and Yuki is just a plain jerk.... But it has OK music.

[same_animefan]

Yeah, I know she's supposed to look young and frail. Isn't she also older then she looks or something? Not sure, going off of what I've heard.

I don't know if you've read the manga, but Shuuichi isn't as hyper-active in that ^_~ Still on crack, but not so much. I don't know, not many people do, but I love him in that xD All bouncing off the walls. Course, Yuki is a jerk >> *whaps him in the head*

What is Strawberry Panic even about? Is it licensed? Eveyone keeps talking about it. Is it a manga or anime...*curious*.

[Animematt55]

It is both anime and manga.
Umm hard for me to describe, but i have heard good reviews...
Private school....school girls, angst, confusion about one's self....etc
Also..maria-sama ga Miteru....Not many totally Canon relationships, but extremely easily slashable that they could easily be true. It is a classic and very popular. It is rather slow and angsty though

[DazzleKitty]

I like both happy and sad series. I usually like that that's more light and happy, but not with too much fluff. Like with Sugar: A Little Snowfairy, I can only take so much of that sappyness. It's nice once in a while, but not too often.
Sad series make for angsty characters, and I like that with guys because it creates much fun for fanfics.

And Matt, you should watch Ouran. Lots of yaoi fangirls at aarinfantasy actually like the main girl. I do too. She's so blunt and down to earth. I love characters like that. And her interactions with Tamaki are great, haha. They have totally opposite personalities that just clash and make for all kinds of funny stuff.
The twins aren't actually doing the whole incest thing. It's a fanservice act put on to impress the ladies that come into the club. Most of the girls that go into the club are rabid yaoi fans that squeal every time Hikaru and Kaoru put on their little 'act'.

Hmmm.....what characters do you like in Gravi? I have always liked Tohma the best. His fashion sense is so odd, but I like his furry coat.

[Animematt55]

I havent seen much of it...so i am not up on the characters names really. I will have to rewatch it. Liek i said, i am far far behind on watching things....

[DazzleKitty]

Matt, will you please stop flaming the girls who don't like yuri at aarinfantasy? I thought you finally left that forum and I could finally have a Matt-free environment, but it seems I am mistaken.

[Jiyuu]

lol x***

khm khm... Saikano is far from the most depressing anime i think :D
If u really dislike them that much, u shouldn't watch Wolf's rain, X, don't read Angel Sanctuary manga, and don't even think about trying Berserk :***
LOL this topic is totally off xD

[Yakura Shima]

So? what part of it is a distorted or typical anime- view?:)
In Japan, homosexuality is accepted even in these days. Well let's say that it's more accepted than in Europe :P
i know!
and i wanna go there so badly!

i know nothing of europe now...

hey, do you think they have yaoi fangirls in africa? what about mexico?

[Jiyuu]

LOOOOL No idea :D
Maybe a few...O.o

[Defiled one]

I thought this was called "the haunting of yaoi fangirls" my bad, sorry... so whats to hate? I mean they arent soo bad, they just fidget around the usual, I mean if they began to glomp you and drool over you, and start making strange pictures of you.... than post them on the internet, to all your friends watch and be complety humiliated in front the class......"snaps out of the mental trance"
I think they are normal..."like a human being should behave? I guess"

[typhonblue]

i know!
and i wanna go there so badly!

i know nothing of europe now...

hey, do you think they have yaoi fangirls in africa? what about mexico?

Africa? I bet there would be among the Masai!

[ZoharContact]

khm khm... Saikano is far from the most depressing anime i think :DSaikano went way too far. After a while, you just become emotionally numbed and see it for what it is: an anime that simply tried to be the most depressing anime ever by washing you with wave after wave of angst.

If you liked it, though, there's an anime that's very close in theme to it called "Iriya no sora, UFO no natsu".

If you ask me, the most depressing anime ever is Rurouni Kenshin: Seisouhen (Reflections), closely followed by the OVA from before the series timeline... They're also very well done and symbolic. I like them a lot. ^_^

Not that I can't see some plausability of the Saikano scenario. Resource wars have a less than remote chance of enveloping the world, and I can just see Japan saying, "Oh, you like your hydrogen bombs, don't you? We don't have those, but we have the Japanese school girl! Invaders beware!" But then, why would anyone want to invade Japan, anyway?LOL this topic is totally off xDAnd I thank the powers that be that it is off. Just reading the last several pages made me feel like I'd have a heart attack!

[Insertnamehere]

I mean yaoi fangirls are depicted as brain-dead idiots in the anime fandom for some reason when it's not really true.


Yeah, I'm not reading 15 pages of this, so I'm sorry if someone has already brought up
this point, but have you watched anime or read a manga at all? Boys are almost ALWAYS portrayed as drooling horn-dogs at the sight of a female, and this isn't true to life either.

[Defiled one]

I prefer they portray us like this, it creates a sense of ilusion, and advantage to us.. let us keep the charade, until they realize what we are caplable of.. it is preferable to be portrayed like this...:shifty: we have to keep apearences

[Yakura Shima]

boys are drooling horn-dogs.
and almost all of the manga ive read, the men have always not been like that and are always oblivious to love and junk.
....
i can be brain dead.

[aoishonen7]

I've tried to avoid this thread hoping that I could stay above this BS, but I just can't do it anymore and I HAVE to state my opinion. I am a 24 year old YAOI fan girl and I am proud of it. I Squeal at the sight of man flesh. I LOVE non-canon parings (In fact the Japanese started it in doujinshi for crying out loud.). And for the love of all that is human and squrming... NO IT IS NOT PEDOPHILIA!!! You might as well say the same for YURI, Hentai and alot of anime out there. Do you see me bashing YURI and hentai? No. Because everybody likes what they likes. Women do not have alot of fanservice here in the states or on the planet in general since we live in a male dominated socitey. Is YAOI unrealistic? YES OF COURSE IT IS!! It was made BY WOMEN FOR WOMEN.Am I brain dead? I am as brain dead as everyone else and I don't give a flying ****. And trust me if I ever see a tit it would be my own because quite frankly there are too many out there for a lifetime. Thank you Japan for creating YAOI. Thank you America for finaly waking up and realizing that women have sex drives too. And Thank you Animenation for Allowing us to have the privillage of having YAOI, YURI and Hentai forums. I Don't know what I would do with out ya'! Ja matta ne and YAOI bless in a Z-fomation!!:cheers:

[Animematt55]

NO IT IS NOT PEDOPHILIA!!!
Who ever said that was refering to shota.....
and your 24? and still squealing over 'man-flesh'? I think it is tiem to mature a little bit.
Also, the Japanese did nto invent non-canon pairings. There have been LOTR and Harry Potter pairings for YEARS.

[typhonblue]

...and your 24? and still squealing over 'man-flesh'? I think it is tiem to mature a little bit.

And *you're* still obsessed with a genre intended for young girls? Perhaps it's time to become a man, dontcha think?

[aoishonen7]

Uh... Yeah. Your point. Isn't cartoons supposed to be for little kids? And yes the japanese did invent non-cannon parings. Do your homework before you go spouting off. I suggest Wikipeda. Once again I repeat. I SQUEAL OVER MAN FLESH! And I love every pitch. :)

P.S. Read the forum. Some dude what-his-face said something about YAOI being similar to pedophlia. I'm not even going to bother to read it again because I don't feel like it. I'm not gonna be ashamed of what kinda anime I like and how I react to it, It's just not me. Now i'm gonna shoo before it turns into a full blown war. I Hate being the harbringer of bad feelings. I leave my opinions in peace.

[aoishonen7]

And, to throw it out there... I wanna see Harry Potter naked. Just to spite you. :lol: HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!! (Sound of rolling thunder)

[Animematt55]

And *you're* still obsessed with a genre intended for young girls? Perhaps it's time to become a man, dontcha think?
what? :blink: :huh:

Oh, and Wikipedia isn't anything. It is jsut a website where no nothing idiots post their opinions on a subject. Why i can go to the Eleohant section, and post that the population of elephants has tripled in the last 6 months.

[DazzleKitty]

and your 24? and still squealing over 'man-flesh'? I think it is tiem to mature a little bit.


I think you are the one who needs to just grow up. All you do is going around criticizing every yaoi fangirl.
You sound like a guy with NO sex drive at all. Heck, how can you even get a girlfriend with your attitude? You sound like you are against the fact that women even like guys.

I think what typhonblue meant is you are watching shows intended for little girls, like Cardcaptor Sakura.

[typhonblue]

**Dramatization of AnimeMatt's wedding night**

MattWife: *squee* Oh, Matt! I'm so excited, I finally get to enjoy you as a woman!

AnimeMatt: GROSS! You like MEN?!?!!!!?1?! You're SQUEALING OVER MEN?! Grow up! That's disgusting! I bet you're a yaoi fan-girl too! I can't believe you hid your desire for men from me! Get OUT! OUT!

[Animematt55]

**Dramatization of AnimeMatt's wedding night**

MattWife: *squee* Oh, Matt! I'm so excited, I finally get to enjoy you as a woman!

AnimeMatt: GROSS! You like MEN?!?!!!!?1?! You're SQUEALING OVER MEN?! Grow up! That's disgusting! I bet you're a yaoi fan-girl too! I can't believe you hid your desire for men from me! Get OUT! OUT!
that made me laugh out loud. There is a difference between liking, and squealing over.

[typhonblue]

that made me laugh out loud. There is a difference between liking, and squealing over.

The only difference is that "squealing" is acting out liking. I doubt aoi literally squeals over every guy she sees. She is just expressing her intense love of men. So what? If you want to like girls you got to accept the fact that girls like guys and that they express it differently. More coyly and more expressively.

There are worse ways to express the fact that you like something. Cutting their head off and pickling it in a jar would be one. Another one would be harrassing them on the street. Even worse is stalking them.

[Animematt55]

Cutting their head off and pickling it in a jar would be one.
You found me out.... :P :rolleyes:

[DazzleKitty]

**Dramatization of AnimeMatt's wedding night**

MattWife: *squee* Oh, Matt! I'm so excited, I finally get to enjoy you as a woman!

AnimeMatt: GROSS! You like MEN?!?!!!!?1?! You're SQUEALING OVER MEN?! Grow up! That's disgusting! I bet you're a yaoi fan-girl too! I can't believe you hid your desire for men from me! Get OUT! OUT!

LMAO!!!! The sad thing is, I can actually see that happening!

Maybe Matt should get a sex change so he can yuri with a girl. ;) You'd like that, wouldn't you, Matt?

[GokuMew2]

You know.... It's sad that you rarely, if ever, see MEN being criticized for liking hentai or yuri.

A guy says he likes hentai or yuri to a girl. The girl generally doesn't care. Other guys explain that it's a "guy thing."

A girl says she likes hentai or yuri. Guys respond with OMG! You're sooooooooo cool! Can I see you make out with a girl!?

A girl says she likes yaoi. Guy freak out and puke, exclaiming that that's totally gross and continue to harass the girl for liking boy action.


They have a word for this; it's called hypocrisy.

[Animematt55]

LMAO!!!! The sad thing is, I can actually see that happening!

Maybe Matt should get a sex change so he can yuri with a girl. ;) You'd like that, wouldn't you, Matt?
oh, of course i would. :P

[Leader Desslock]

You know.... It's sad that you rarely, if ever, see MEN being criticized for liking hentai or yuri.
Yeah, 'cause you just never see any guy in a standard anime getting accused of being a pervert for looking at dirty pictures. Heck, no. Never seen that at all. Yep, whenever a guy in pop entertainment gets caught looking at pornographic material, all of the women around him comment what a mature and well-adjusted individual he is. :rolleyes:

Take the following scene: A guy is sitting on a bus in the middle of a bunch of girls. He pulls out a porn mag and starts leafing through it. He comments on how the girls in the pictures are more attractive than the girls seated around him, then turns the magazine so they can see. The girls react by smacking him upside the head, saying "Gross! You DISGUSTING PIG! What do you need to look at THAT for, anyway?"

Can you get that scene in your head? Does it seem realistic - or at least familiar - to anyone who's seen a harem show? Sure it does.

Now take the same scene and change it slightly. Let's see he's seated among the same group of women, but this time he pulls out a Reader's Digest. He comments on how the writers for the magazine are more erudite than the women around him, then shows around this month's installment of "It Pays To Enrich Your Wordpower". The women look at him horrified and slap him upside the head, saying, "Eww! What do you need to read stuff like THAT for, anyway?"

A little harder to imagine? A little weirder? Would you expect to see this in a normal anime, or in a parody?

The Point: If a guy looking at porn was considered a 'comfortable' topic in polite company, it wouldn't be funny. The jokes wouldn't work.

A girl says she likes hentai or yuri....They have a word for this; it's called hypocrisy.
Well... be fair. This is a topic about Yaoi Fangirls, not Women Who Have A Quiet And Tactful Appreciation Of Erotica. I don't think I hear too much distaste for women who say, "Why yes, I have been known to look at certain forms of erotica from time to time." I think you'd hear quite a lot of snide comments about guys who squealed aloud at the sight of a lesbian love scene.

Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

For the record, I don't like badly-written OOC fiction that contains ANY non-canon sexual pairing. I really don't care who gets paired with whom - if the writer has to mangle the charatcers and situations just to satisfy some nonsensical pairing instead of writing an original fiction to express himself, I consider that bad writing. It's just as bad when Akane ends up with Ryoga as it is when she ends up with Shampoo, IMHO.

[LostCause]

Yeah, 'cause you just never see any guy in a standard anime getting accused of being a pervert for looking at dirty pictures.

For some reason I think GokuMew2 wasn't talking about standard anime, more like RL. At least thats the way I saw it. (correct me if I am wrong)


Well... be fair. This is a topic about Yaoi Fangirls, not Women Who Have A Quiet And Tactful Appreciation Of Erotica.

Thats just it. There is no such topic. We all get thrown together by just one criteria (enjoing yaoi genre), and thats why so many on this thread had expressed their displeasure at the fact.

For the record, I don't like badly-written OOC fiction that contains ANY non-canon sexual pairing. I really don't care who gets paired with whom - if the writer has to mangle the charatcers and situations just to satisfy some nonsensical pairing instead of writing an original fiction to express himself, I consider that bad writing. It's just as bad when Akane ends up with Ryoga as it is when she ends up with Shampoo, IMHO.

Its your right to dislike stuff you dislike. I had sworn off reading fanfics after a few horrible ones. Recently I had some 'bad influence' and read one, cannon pairing btw, omg, the author was so talented! I read it in one breath. So I might give fanfics a second chance.

[Leader Desslock]

For some reason I think GokuMew2 wasn't talking about standard anime, more like RL. At least thats the way I saw it. (correct me if I am wrong)
You're right - but my point was that if "Guys looking at porn" was as universally accepted as GM2's post indicated, the mainstream jokes wouldn't be funny.

Thats just it. There is no such topic. We all get thrown together by just one criteria (enjoing yaoi genre), and thats why so many on this thread had expressed their displeasure at the fact.
Yeah, but most of the people expressing displeasure at "Yaoi Fangirls" aren't talking about the mature connoiseurs of pornography. The ones they're specifically talking about are the annoying, squealy ones, and it's more the immature attitude that turns people off than their choice of reading materials, I think.

Personally, I don't call the mature female porn afficianadoes "fangirls"; I just call them "women". ^_^

[LostCause]

You know, I liked the "women who have a quiet and tactful appreciation of erotica" much more than "mature connoseurs of pornography" :P

But anyway, I will admit to liking many non cannon pairings. We just can thank the heavens I've got 0 talent.

[Leader Desslock]

You know, I liked the "women who have a quiet and tactful appreciation of erotica" much more than "mature connoseurs of pornography" :P
So I guess the expression "dirty old broads" ain't gonna cut it either? Just checking. ^_^

<runs for cover>

But anyway, I will admit to liking many non cannon pairings. We just can thank the heavens I've got 0 talent.
If I had a nickel for every time someone with talent told me they didn't have any talent, I'd have a ****load of nickels. Your posts are clear, you can obviously write. Give it a shot! You might have fun, and other people might enjoy your work. Just because I can't stand non-canon pairings doesn't mean other people don't want to read them.

[LostCause]

<runs for cover>

At least you know whats good for you.

If I had a nickel for every time someone with talent told me they didn't have any talent, I'd have a ****load of nickels. Your posts are clear, you can obviously write. Give it a shot! You might have fun, and other people might enjoy your work. Just because I can't stand non-canon pairings doesn't mean other people don't want to read them.

May I borrow your phrase? If I had a nickel for every time someone told me I've got talent, I wouldn't be able to buy an effin matchbox.
Clear posts=/= talent. But it was nice of you to say. ^_^

p.s. what does OOC stand for?

[Defiled one]

serioulsy.. some people really had bad expericenes with yaoi fangirls.

by the looks of this i cant stop thinking.. why? I mean i saw a "hardcore Yaoi fangirl" and a "hardcore yuri fangirl" get along just fine..I mean, only got in to "Anime"
by a group of fangirls... there is nothing wrong with them...I am sure of it..I mean the worst that they did to me was to be still for a few hours in class, topless with a friend, posing for them..I mean they do the same thing in our class...

I am sure that they arent, at least the majoraty, arent so bad...

[GokuMew2]

Well, it sort of applies to both anime fans and people in general, I think.

I think it's more accepted for men to be into pornography than it is for women to be. It is this belief that then crosses over into the anime fandom where guys think there's nothing wrong with watching hentai or yuri, but it's gross for girls to be watching/reading yaoi.

Of course I don't mean that EVERYONE thinks like this, but a lot do.

But really, I think the real reason why guys don't like girls who are into yaoi or yaoi itself is because they think it makes guys look sissy. I mean, yeah, many yaoi characters look like girls. Guys don't like that portrayal because it goes against their masculinity so they lash at it and hate yaoi and its fans. And guys humping other guys? Again, that idea goes against their masculinity because they think only gays, who are often stereotyped to be girly, are the ones who do that.

I learned in my human sexuality class that a large percentage of men (I forget what the exact statistic is) have had a homosexual encounter. Of course, not everyone enjoys the experience so they say that gays are gross and all that stuff to protect themselves and their masculinity. Kind of a scarred for life experience.

Yes, I am crossing into real life, but that's because I think our beliefs coordinate our actions. If someone doesn't like gays, they'll hate yaoi and people who enjoy it.

I just think it's very hypocritical of people to be into hentai or yuri but say yaoi is gross and "attack" yaoi fans. They deal with different things but they're all in the realm of adult animation (or whatever your favorite medium is), so in the words of Jack Nicholson, Why can't we all just get along?

I will admit some fans go a little too far with their fandoms, and I really don't like that. It's these fans that stereotype all other fans, giving them a negative image, so when a guy learns that a girl likes yaoi, he thinks, "OMG she must squeal at any hint of contact between boys and want to see them humping day and night." Yeah, maybe some girls DO do that, but not all.

Anyway, just what I think.


Oh, and....

p.s. what does OOC stand for?
OOC stands for "out of character."

[isshinu]

Let's see, my main thing with yaoi fangirls (err fanboys, too, I guess...) is that they spread the yaoi everywhere. It's like, they've created this headless monster that knows no Limit. They take non-yaoi characters and place them in yaoi situtations. And, usually, it's the completely incompatible characters that they seem to mix.

Sorry... can't help but quote. xP Well, we yaoi fangirls don't usually "spread" yaoi everywhere. It's just something we like. So what if we take non-yaoi characters and place the in yaoi situations? We like it that way.

My point of view of yaoi fangirls is that we don't spread it, but we're just open to ideas like those. If you don't want to listen or watch them, then don't. Please do say so, because I quite respect people's love for heterosexual pairings. All I ask is that you do the same.

But, I guess I might be exaggerating.

Anyway, good day. :zzz:

[Lockheart]

They take non-yaoi characters and place them in yaoi situtations. And, usually, it's the completely incompatible characters that they seem to mix.

So what if we take non-yaoi characters and place the in yaoi situations? We like it that way.

It depends on what you mean by "non-yaoi characters." If you mean slashing Sagara Sousuke with a random faceless guy for the sole purpose of "yaoi", then I agree in that it's completely senseless and laughable, for the sole reason that the man has not one, but two women at his side. Same goes for Ace x Zoro from One Piece, as well as every made up pairing with barely any interactions whatsoever. However, if you're thinking about the whole latest Kurogane x Fai fiasco, and how the anti-yaoi fandom was babbling about how it's all friendship and everything between them, and how it's impossible to have them turn 'YAOI' for many reasons, then, if you're interested, I could explain myself (not for other people) my reasons for shipping them so. (And to an extent, Itsuki --> Kyon - not ItsukixKyon - as my choice for shipping. :D)

But there are those with truly reasonable reasons for hating Yaoi Fangirls (as opposed to fans who like yaoi), and I wholeheartedly agree with them. I'm generalizing, but bear with me: they're mostly underage, they can't differentiate between canon and subtext, and most of all, they use annoying l33tspeak when they had displayed some evidence of grasping the English language decently, other things that grate my nerves and will sometimes drive me out of a loved fandom. :rolleyes:

[Animematt55]

^ Yes they are underage...How the heck are they getting porn at that age? A 14 y/o shouldn't be obsessed with gay sex. They should be out playing house, and pickign flowers. isn't it ILLEGAL to sell a minor porn?
of course msot of these girls don't consider it pron, cause to them...rape is cute....

[GokuMew2]

But there are those with truly reasonable reasons for hating Yaoi Fangirls (as opposed to fans who like yaoi), and I wholeheartedly agree with them. I'm generalizing, but bear with me: they're mostly underage, they can't differentiate between canon and subtext, and most of all, they use annoying l33tspeak when they had displayed some evidence of grasping the English language decently, other things that grate my nerves and will sometimes drive me out of a loved fandom. :rolleyes:
Ah~ That is a great way to describe it.... The yaoi fangirl vs fan of yaoi part. *thumbs up*

Though I'm a yaoi fan, I agree that crazy yaoi fangirls can be very annoying. I don't like people who push their ideas and opinions onto others. The difficult part is that negatives seem to always stereotype things, so if someone says they're a yaoi fan, many equate that as being a yaoi fangirl. Sad, but true.


^ Yes they are underage...How the heck are they getting porn at that age? A 14 y/o shouldn't be obsessed with gay sex. They should be out playing house, and pickign flowers. isn't it ILLEGAL to sell a minor porn?
of course msot of these girls don't consider it pron, cause to them...rape is cute....
With the internet nowadays, anyone can access anything.

I got into yaoi before I was 18, but I wouldn't say I was "obsessed." Right now, I'm a bigger fan than I was then, and sure, sometimes I feel a little deprived, but I know where to draw the line between life and hobby.

Anyway, I think what you said was very sexist. Who's to say a girl should be doing this, or should be doing that? It's not very fair of you to say such things... It sort of goes back to what I had been saying earlier about how guys think girls should act a certain way and like certain things. But I don't want to get into an argument about this or anything. Just please be careful of what you say.

[Animematt55]

I was half joking....basically sayign that they are too young for yaoi. What did littel girls do when i was growing up? Played house, and picked flowers....

[GokuMew2]

I was half joking....basically sayign that they are too young for yaoi. What did littel girls do when i was growing up? Played house, and picked flowers....
Yeah, I know, but it just kinda proved my point how people have pre-conceived ideas of how girls should act, and how these ideas come out even when people are not serious because they seem "normal." Does that make any sense? .^^;

Anyhoo, not picking on you or anything.

[DazzleKitty]

I discovered yaoi at the age of 12. Heck, a lot of kids are having sex at that age. At 14, they're definently gonna be looking things up they 'shouldn't be'. I think little girls stop playing house and picking flowers way before the age of 12....
I'd also be careful about saying those kinds of things....it sounds kinda like you are saying little girls should be doing that stuff. It did seem a little sexist after all....but maybe it wasn't intended to be. I'm not trying to be a nag or anything.