Re: Is Anime Too Expensive in America?

[sailormech]

Can't help but comment on today's article:

This is America were people look to get the most for the lowest price.


What a patriotic sounding excuse to not pay your bills.

I would argue that people looking for the lowest price has taken away from America's "greatness", as it probably arguably has from every first-world countries that rely on outsourcing to cut costs:
http://www.jibjab.com/JokeBox/JokeBox_JJOrig.aspx?movieid=122

If people forced down prices looking for the cheapest entertainment options available, like they do for clothes and electronics, anime probably wouldn't exist. If TV even still existed, there would be one station showing only the most widely-accepted mainstream poop. American Idol, and reruns of Seinfeld and Friends.

If I was you, there's no way I could have been so nice. The person is clearly a hardened downloader. I would have told him to give up his Bit Torrent addiction, convince his downloader friends to do the same, buy a few DVDs and maybe prices WILL go down. Or something equally as curt and nasty. -.-

[Animematt55]

most for the lowest price......well that means out sourcing, or hiring illegals.
I dont think anime is expensive, it is just that most peopel in america are too cheap.
ALthough i havent bought a n anime DVD in a while. I do buy lots of manga though.

[CrossboneGundam]

Anime is dirt cheap in the US. In Japan, they have to pay $60-$80+ for one or two episodes on DVD.

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

I would have to also say that Anime is fairly resonable for the prices.At times you can buy VHS..now DVD`s for good prices and still get some extras.I would have to say you get your money`s worth.

[soulreaper]

Compared to other dvds, it may be expensive. Such as how you can get 23 episodes of the Simpsons for $40-$50 but have to pay upwards of $100 for a full anime series (of 24+ episodes) if you buy all the dvds at retail price. Luckily, that's not always the case, and if a series is too expensive in individual dvds, well, that's what thinpacks are for.

But yeah, compared to Japan, we have it EXTREMELY easy.

[Brill]

The problem is that most American anime fans have lint in their pockets. Only now am I in a position to buy a whole series and not even flinch-and that took 10 years as an anime fan. Even with the recent "diminished" release cycle there is too much anime for a Gen Y, Gen Z person to afford more than 1 or 2 titles on a regular basis-that is if they don't want to live on Mac&Chesse for the next 3 months :) . Would most anime fans pay $1000+ for all of Inuyasha, Naruto, or One Piece? Hell no. We wait for a year to pass so we can buy the boxed sets of it. Also let's not forget there is a 10 year back-log of anime that people are just discovering and starting to collect. To buy new releases or start collecting the "classics" also stretches the already weak dollar in more ways than it can stretch. So the result is people illegally downloading subs to fill their addiction-and it is an addiction. I'm still waiting for the 12-step self-help program for anime addicts.

[master terrence]

In America (and other countries I suspect) there is always a way to get anime extremely cheap and legally. Either you wait for a year to pass by and buy the whole series in thin pack, rent it, or pre-order it from animenation to get 30% off all new releases - just thought I should throw that in there. Even for being 16 and having no job, I can find ways to get plenty of anime legally...(I mostly fill up my old man's rental queuee, now only if I can get him to switch to rentanime.com - highly unlikely though). Once I get to college, I'll split the rentanime bill with a friend who has good taste in anime and this way I can get a big plan for a smaller price.

[Bishoujo Senshi]

Yes, it's expensive, but since when do American anime fans have the right to watch whatever they want? Not even the Japanese can watch any series they want. How is the hobby of collecting and watching anime any different from other hobbies? If you're a motorcycle enthusiast, are companies supposed to take a loss just so you can buy that Harley you've had your eye on? Get a job, budget your money properly, and you can afford to buy some titles. I make a decent living and even I cannot afford to buy all the DVDs I want to, so I pick the ones I really want and buy those. I get a little tired of people whining about how they can't afford it. Grow up and realize that you can't get everything you want just because it exists.

[Shoujo Love]

I'll just say that it's tough to buy, say, a 30+ episode series when each disc has 4-5 episodes and costs over $20 each.

[Leader Desslock]

Anime is affordable enough in the states that I'm still willing to buy it. Then again, it's not so cheap that I'm willing to waste money on singles or questionable titles, either. As long as anime remains at its current price points, I'll continue to be a very discriminating collector.

[Oburi]

Anime costs me about $30.00 a DVD in my area.. I think it's a little rediculous. Especially for titles that are shown on basic cable like FMA and Samurai Champloo..

[jedisolo]

I think the prices here are pretty good. Just the other day I saw Record of Lodoss War Chronicles of the Heroic Knight Complete Collection at Best Buy for 19.99.

[Samurai Drifter]

Yes, it's expensive, but since when do American anime fans have the right to watch whatever they want? Not even the Japanese can watch any series they want. How is the hobby of collecting and watching anime any different from other hobbies? If you're a motorcycle enthusiast, are companies supposed to take a loss just so you can buy that Harley you've had your eye on? Get a job, budget your money properly, and you can afford to buy some titles. I make a decent living and even I cannot afford to buy all the DVDs I want to, so I pick the ones I really want and buy those. I get a little tired of people whining about how they can't afford it. Grow up and realize that you can't get everything you want just because it exists.
Sounds less like an answer to the question and more a rant against fansubs to me. The first sentence was all that was needed here.

And yes, it is expensive, that's why I watch so many fansubs.

[Shibari]

Whenever I hear someone complain about how expensive anime is, I think to myself, "This is a new fan." It's true that anime isn't a cheap hobby, but things used to be much worse. When I was first getting into this hobby (about ten years ago) it was not at all uncommon to pay $30 for two episodes on VHS, or one movie. There's been a lot of improvement in this area. Seriously, if cost is such a big issue, get an account with Rentanime or what have you. It's a good way to see a lot of anime without paying a lot of money.

[SeannyB]

part of the problem that nobody touched on is that DVDs aren't worth much. Despite my lack of money, I still buy things if I know I can resell them for like 80% what I paid. DVDs, boxsets, mass-produced entertainment media in general... you buy them and a few months later they ain't worth anything. I only buy them to be nice and materialistic (seeing that the alternative is internet piracy for free) -- and that means not very often.

Plus anime comes out in the US on a huge delay which obviously kills appeal, which calls for a newer, more immediate distribution system..... but that's an argument for another day. There's just not a lot of appeal in buying discs of yesteryear's anime at full price.

If I could get into the anime distribution thing right now... I wouldn't, since it seems like such a losing market, with inherent problems in the distribution system.

[Ken-Ohki]

We live in a free market economy, it's ridiculous to assume that people won't want the best for the cheapest. In this instance a good show will still be able to sell even if the price is restrictive because either you put up with buying what you want or you go without.

An example:

Peter is selling a yellow shirt for $20

Susan is selling a yellow shirt for $19

The consumer will purchase the shirt for $19. So long as Susan has made a profit both are satisfied.

The problem goes like this for anime:

Peter sells Naruto for $30

Put up with it or don't buy Naruto.

We can assume that prices are too high for anime but the fact is they charge whatever they can in order to make the most profit if we don't like the price for a series we can either buy another show and do without what we really want or we can buy the show on the terms of the supplier.

[Hunter_Z]

I think that the prices for anime are reasonable right now. It all comes back to budgeting your money and making sure you really want that anime. I'm sure everybody out there has bought something they like and then find out they didn't like it after all. Pisses you off really.

If you really want it, you'll buy it. Even if you got to wait a little longer before you have the funds to get it.

[Chicito]

I say that anime is at a fair price.

I go to Suncoast and anime is $25 - $30.

While at Best Buy it's around $20 (But fewer selections).

Now This is expensive (http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=200139)

[Grizzbob]

I'll just say that it's tough to buy, say, a 30+ episode series when each disc has 4-5 episodes and costs over $20 each.
If you think that's expensive, you should've seen what it cost about 10 years ago to buy the same 30+ episodes on VHS(at a MAXIMUM 1-2 episodes per tape), they cost the same price then($20-30 apiece), so you can do the math for the rest. To give you an idea, I originally bought Neon genesis Evangelion on VHS, & at about $25 per tape(roughly, got some discounts here & there), I paid about $325 for the series(not including sales tax). And when it was rereleased as the Platinum DVD seris, I decided it was time to convert, so I bought that, & at a similar price per package, I only paid about $175(again before sales tax), & in doing so I also got both the sub & dub of it(with VHS you had to choose which one, you NEVER got both in the same package), plus plenty of nice extras on the DVD's. Compared to what we used to pay, I think we have it EASY now, & should be thankful for the savings we enjoy today(as well as support those who bring those DVD's to us, if we don't support them, they'll lose money & eventually won't be able to bring it to us).... :cool:

[Gboz]

Not if you're getting bootlegs.

[Sora N]

I don’t think anime is expensive…besides it’s something I like and I’m willing to pay the price for it. ^_^

[Paul Soth]

If you think that's expensive, you should've seen what it cost about 10 years ago to buy the same 30+ episodes on VHS(at a MAXIMUM 1-2 episodes per tape), they cost the same price then($20-30 apiece), so you can do the math for the rest.

Don't forget that with VHS you were stuck with one audio track, no options, and no real extras. Oh, and the picture and sound quality compared with DVD...

And finding them? If you wanted something that wasn't released by Manga Entertainment or Streamline, catalogs were really the only way. And oh yes, subtitled editions did cost more as well.

[Chousho]

Domestic anime or Import?

Yes and yes. Unfortunately anime companies also aren't as big as, say, Microsoft, and have to pay the dozens of people who work on said titles, along with license fees, and yet produce a product cheaper than their Japanese equivs.

Either get a job to pay for it or go without. It's the lesson I had to learn on dialup.

Anyway, I would say that $20 for 5 episodes is a good deal, actually. I wouldn't mind paying $4 an episode, along with extras, booklets and cover art. $25 I might be more reserved, especially if it was $25 for only 4 eps. Ehhh, then I start to think if I really want it.

There are dozens of series I would love to watch, but time, money and classes don't allow for that. Along with these, I just haven't found myself as drawn to anime as I once was. An occasional few titles, but it's more manga and drama for me.

[getter77]

Just about everything I get is almost always at least 45%~ lower than the retail price. Even though they are legit R1 releases from a trusted e-tailer or 3...I still catch crap from some elitists that think buying something on sale or discount hurts the companies and should be avoided if one is to be a "true" fan.

I've got a random numer of between 0-200$ to allocate towards anime per month. I simply live by good weekly or studio sales. It is as simple as that if ya live in the USA.

If you don't like the price of something...don't get it yet. That's why I still don't own Trigun after all these years, despite having seen it and thought it decent years ago.

[Miduki]

Sometimes it would be nice if they tried to match the price of HK products. Even the thinpacks are an excellent idea - better quality than HKs, for about the same price. But 4 episodes per disc, especially for series as large as Naruto, gets a bit pricey - meaning I am going to download it or buy the HK. The special features are usually silly things like commentary by the English voice actors (who are rarely that amazing). All they need to include are no-credit opening/ending scenes, trailers, and a music video here and there. And some anime don't need to be dubbed, as we have seen with such things as Metropolis.

[Suiko Eiji]

^What you seem not to understand are the embedded licensing and operations costs in producing North American DVDs rather than the production costs of the bootleg product. What you are saying here:

Sometimes it would be nice if they tried to match the price of HK products. Even the thinpacks are an excellent idea - better quality than HKs, for about the same price. But 4 episodes per disc, especially for series as large as Naruto, gets a bit pricey - meaning I am going to download it or buy the HK.

is "Legit companies should take financial losses in order to compete against folks who are breaking the law". Unfortunately, companies who take financial losses too often don't live very long.

Anime is affordable enough in the states that I'm still willing to buy it. Then again, it's not so cheap that I'm willing to waste money on singles or questionable titles, either. As long as anime remains at its current price points, I'll continue to be a very discriminating collector.

While I'm probably more liberal with the amount of money in the anime department, I have agree with Desslock. I think it is affordable that one can afford to build a collection slowly over time and not take too much of a crunch out of the monthly budget but still expensive enough that one really needs to watch what one is spending on it.

Though, I am also 100% in agreeance with Bishoujo Senshi's comments. I think there is only one thing I can add to it that can help get the point across:

You do not have the right to the time, money, or labor of another individual. People only have the rights to those things of themselves. Anime is not something that you are entitled to; it's a privledge. The system is far from perfect (especially concerning SeannyB mentioning the distro system, but I digress) but it's also far from broken.

[Miduki]

^What you seem not to understand are the embedded licensing and operations costs in producing North American DVDs rather than the production costs of the bootleg product. What you are saying here:

""

is "Legit companies should take financial losses in order to compete against folks who are breaking the law". Unfortunately, companies who take financial losses too often don't live very long.


I doubt financial losses would matter - otherwise they wouldn't have created the thinpaks. They lose more money when people buy HKs or download from the internet, than if they put more episodes per DVD. And HK's aren't illegal, China has no copyright laws. Is it wrong - yes, but illegal in China? No.

Oh, Anime ain't no priviledge - it's purchasable.

And please look up the word "sometimes."

kthxbye

[Leader Desslock]

And HK's aren't illegal, China has no copyright laws. Is it wrong - yes, but illegal in China? No.
Wrong. As a signer of the Berne Convention, China must enforce the copyright laws of the other Convention members, inclusing Japan and the US. HK bootlegs are therefore most certainly illegal in China. Unfortunately, given the histories of the two countries, I doubt that the Chinese legal system is very accomodating to the complaints of the Japanese entertainment industry. They don't seem too concerned about enforcing the rights of American entertainment companies either, for that matter.

At any rate, unwillingness to enforce the law does not mean that the law does not exist. It does, and it holds the same force in China as it does in any of the other members of the Berne Convention. If a Chinese company's copyright was being violated in the US, and a Chinese corporation (through a US presence) were to file suit against the violator on US soil, the US legal system would similarly have to respect that copyright suit.

I will agree with you that anime is not a privilege, however. It's not a privilege - it's a simple entertainment commodity. If you want it, you buy it just like any other entertainment commodity.

[Gboz]

HK bootlegs
Wrong? No
Illegal? Hell if I know

[Suiko Eiji]

I doubt financial losses would matter - otherwise they wouldn't have created the thinpaks.

However look at the release schedule of the thinpak releases - they're marginal revenue generators for people who are more fickle (or don't have as much to spend) on release, hence them being cheaper. As far as I know, it's typically the same number of episodes on the same amount of discs - only with cheaper licensing (b/c of the lack of extras) and cheaper packaging.

Oh, Anime ain't no priviledge - it's purchasable.


Fine, my use of 'priviledge' there is incorrect - let's call it a luxury.

[sailormech]

HK bootlegs
Wrong? No

No? Try YES.

Do you know where your money goes when you buy that badly-subtitled 8-disc paper boxset? 1) To a DVD replication company and 2) to some Chinese business man, possiblyh involved in organized crime who is probably using his DVD business to hide large amounts of income he makes from black market prostitution, gambling and smuggling business deals.

Do you know where your money DOESN'T go? Back to the company that made the anime.

So what you're really doing when you buy HK bootlegs is stealing money from decent, legit anime companies like Brocolli (remember they "closed their doors" about a month ago) and funnelling it to Chinese organized crime that puts young girls into slavery, steals the wages of decent working class Chinese, and generally ruins lives.

Think about that before shelling out next time.

At the very least, consider switching to digital fansubs, which cost nothing and finance nothing.

[SeannyB]

that's basically what happens (http://videocheck.entropymedia.com/videocheck/core?p=2410&b=1&t=5&m=wm) when you buy anything made-in-china. But HK bootleg DVDs are just silly in this day and age... money that could otherwise be spent on say, a faster net connection, granting you much larger access to current anime if you're going the illegal route anyway.

[Takumi Fujiwara]

I don't believe anime is expensive (especially when compared to the R2 releases). I can't understand why people would still even consiter purchasing HK discs, given their poor sound/video quality, engrish or just plain nonsence for subtitles, aside from the fact that they support illegal activities pointed out by previous posters. I mean honestly are you so cheap that you would pay a criminal in China 30 bucks to burn a copy of *insert anime series here* instead of buying the US released thinpak for 50-60? I mean come on a copy thats legal, has good subtitles, good quality video, supports the original artists, so they can produce more titles. I think thats a small price to pay when given the list of positives, but I suppose I could talk all day long about the good points of R1 titles, and the downsides to HK bootlegs and people would still run right over to Ebay and buy them right up.

[Dark Jerry]

Imo the US has it pretty easy on anime dvd prices from what I hear about how much they cost in other countries. lol I have a friend in the UK and he says they are like $40 for just 1 dvd or something like that when I usually just see most for like 15.00 to like 25.00 at like best buy and stuff like that.(I live in the US) And I hear they are really expensive in japan to. =x

[Ephyon-x]

The Anime is the US is about $5-8 cheaper / dvd then it is in sweden,
One of the reasons why i mass order from animenation :)

[Mikazuchi]

One dvd(2-4episode) costs 30 dollars - 60 dollars in japan.
But,we japanease can look in TV free.
and I can look for one episode 1 dollar anytime in my ISP's service.
ISP buys a franchise and broadcasts in a net free(only first episode) for own member.
it is official service.

[LelBunny]

I got spoiled when I bought the Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon series. They released them 7 eps to a disc. I thought that was more than fair for $30.
Boy did I get a big shock when I wanted more anime. 3-4 eps per disc at the same price seemed like a rip. But a series like Excel Saga makes 4 eps per disc worth it.
It's not really a matter of something being too expensive. It's more a matter of finding quality that matches a fair price. I mean, if Peter is selling Naruto at $30 and Susie is selling it for $10 I'm going to step back and first look at *why* she's selling it for $10. Y'know, it could be corrupted, bootlegged, poor quality or badly misused. So I'd probably buy from Peter because I'd feel that I'm getting a new copy in excellent condition.
That being said; As much as I'd like to get a series like YuYu Hakusho or InuYasha, I probably won't because 3 eps per disc is not only expensive - it also takes up a *lot* more space. 90 eps for a season means 30 discs on your shelf vs 22-18 with a 4-5 ep release. Some folks might find that a dumb reason not to get a series. But those of us who live in apts do have to consider such things. There's only so much space and everything you buy wants it.

[Suiko Eiji]

Imo the US has it pretty easy on anime dvd prices from what I hear about how much they cost in other countries. lol I have a friend in the UK and he says they are like $40 for just 1 dvd or something like that when I usually just see most for like 15.00 to like 25.00 at like best buy and stuff like that.(I live in the US) And I hear they are really expensive in japan to. =x

Yeah, that was something I was going to point out but neglected to. When I was in the UK on vacation and the (then) girlfriend stopped in Virgin and some other movie places, I checked out the anime sections just to see what they were like, what was there, and how much it was. I saw a lot of stuff varying between £15 (~$30.00 USD) and £20 (~$40.00 USD), some stuff as high as £25 (~$50.00 USD). In comparision to the US, anime there is on par or more expensive (I don't remember checking for box set prices) when you average out an exchange rate.

Some folks might find that a dumb reason not to get a series. But those of us who live in apts do have to consider such things. There's only so much space and everything you buy wants it.

I can understand the problem, I am unfortunately an apartment renter as well, and the problem becomes even more so if you have something like a loft apartment. Though, I try to make sure to find large apartments that are affordable and have plenty of space to put shelves and book cases so I can store everything.

[Gboz]

No? Try YES.

Do you know where your money goes when you buy that badly-subtitled 8-disc paper boxset? 1) To a DVD replication company and 2) to some Chinese business man, possiblyh involved in organized crime who is probably using his DVD business to hide large amounts of income he makes from black market prostitution, gambling and smuggling business deals.

Do you know where your money DOESN'T go? Back to the company that made the anime.

So what you're really doing when you buy HK bootlegs is stealing money from decent, legit anime companies like Brocolli (remember they "closed their doors" about a month ago) and funnelling it to Chinese organized crime that puts young girls into slavery, steals the wages of decent working class Chinese, and generally ruins lives.

Think about that before shelling out next time.

At the very least, consider switching to digital fansubs, which cost nothing and finance nothing.
As long as I'm getting what I want, I don't care.

[Miduki]

Still, they do lose money with the fansubing and HK Industry.

And many HK's (the name is for convenience) are made in Indonesia and the Phillipenes as well as Taiwan - which isn't a member of the Berne convention unless they consider Taiwan part of China. China should enforce copyright, but hey look at the US blowing off the UN - it's universal that countries ignore things they shouldn't.

[goddessofanime]

It's your money....but just know that if you do buy a bootleg, there's always a risk that something could be wrong with it or you'll get subtitles that make no sense.

[Gboz]

It's your money....but just know that if you do buy a bootleg, there's always a risk that something could be wrong with it or you'll get subtitles that make no sense.
But at the same time you didn't pay that much money for it anyway.

[Hexon.Arq]

Anime is inexpensive in the situation to which I subscribe: that of only buying completed collections of shows. Sure, going the route of buying the first disc and then buying all the subsequent discs borders on extortion, but then you're really only paying an impatience fee. I don't even know anyone who does that.

[CyberNinja5]

Imo the US has it pretty easy on anime dvd prices from what I hear about how much they cost in other countries. lol I have a friend in the UK and he says they are like $40 for just 1 dvd or something like that when I usually just see most for like 15.00 to like 25.00 at like best buy and stuff like that.(I live in the US) And I hear they are really expensive in japan to. =x
Yeah its not really that bad. I think it depends on how many episodes you get per DVD. If its like 4 for 20 bucks then thats good. But if there is only 3 and its $25 then thats a little high. And I think some box sets like Trigun could be cheaper.

[Gendo]

But at the same time you didn't pay that much money for it anyway.


You know, you could always GET A JOB. All you are doing is basicly saying you dont mind being a thief. You think you have some entitlement to your anime that does not exist. You can ***** and moan about anime prices all you want regardless of the fact that anime dvd prices have droped a lot in the past few years. Jobless little children like yourself are what will eventually kill the anime industry. In the en, no matter how you try to justify it, you're just a thief. Worse than that, you're so pathetic you have to get someone else to steal it for you then pay them for it.





Imo the US has it pretty easy on anime dvd prices from what I hear about how much they cost in other countries. lol I have a friend in the UK and he says they are like $40 for just 1 dvd or something like that when I usually just see most for like 15.00 to like 25.00 at like best buy and stuff like that.(I live in the US) And I hear they are really expensive in japan to. =x

One of the main reason that DVD's were given region codes was actually to help prevent import of DVDs from the North American market to other countries (also why video games have region codes, we pay a lot less for those too). We pay a lot less than Japan, the UK, or anyone else. With DVD's often having many choices of foreign subtitles, the appeal of just importing from the US is very large. It is also becasue of this that region-free DVD players tend to be pretty popular outside of North America

[djcubez]

I was at best buy the other day and they had the whole Evangelion series there for $60.00. My dad bought it online a couple years ago for about twice the price. I like to watch a couple episodes of a show before I actually buy it.

[Gendo]

I was at best buy the other day and they had the whole Evangelion series there for $60.00. My dad bought it online a couple years ago for about twice the price. I like to watch a couple episodes of a show before I actually buy it.

http://www.rentanime.com

http://www.netflix.com

[Levon]

I was at best buy the other day and they had the whole Evangelion series there for $60.00. My dad bought it online a couple years ago for about twice the price. I like to watch a couple episodes of a show before I actually buy it.

Are you talking about the old DVD release or the new Platinum thinpak?

If its the old release then its a complete waste of money now that Platinum is released.

[Leader Desslock]

^ If it's the only Perfect Collection, then it's hardly a waste of money; it's exactly what I'd want. I won't buy the Platinum collection, thinpack or otherwise. It's got nothing I care about, and I'd rather own the 'original' release.

Now if they'd just drop it down to $35 (the price of Outlaw Star, IIRC) or so, it'd be worth the price. The day I pay $60 for an Evangelion box set is going to be a cold day in Perdition. They've made their money from the title; they can afford to discount it. If not, I can certainly afford not to own it. I've waited this long for a good price; I don't see that I'm going to die by waiting a bit longer.

Is anime expensive in America? Not at all. What's expensive is impatience.

[tenshi_a]

Isn't the Platinum collection the remastered (non-shaky) version with all the director's cut scenes?

If so, why would you specifically avoid the director's cut?

[Psychopuppet]

I find anime prices on DVD in the U.S. to be a decent price .
I think it's kind of strange people complaining considering that how much anime was on VHS years back.

Also what alot people fail to realize is that unlike Regular DVD's anime DVD's do not sell as well and the anime companies can not afford to lower the price's much .
And if you look at Geneon and Bandai most of their latest release's they've been $24.95 msrp while not much it's still something.

And with these cheaper complete collections , stores like Best Buy , and online retailers offering for $5.00 to even $50.00 cheaper than MSRP (in some cases) I see no reason to complain or to go out an buy bootlegs.
If you can't find deals then your not looking hard enough IMO.

[sailornyanko]

Anime is still an extremly cheap hobby if you compare it with drinking alchohol at fancy nightclubs, pimping your car and buying brand name clothing.

I'm not really rich at all, but I get around to get anime legally. I rarely watch anime on dvd. Over 90% of the anime I get is dubbed to spanish on cable tv. And with the huge amount of anime I get thanks to Animax, well... Sometimes I watch too much anime for my sanity.

I do buy dvd's when I visit the US. The trick though is that I don't buy the first dvd I see in the first store (I was this close to buying the first issue of Fruits Basket at a Suncoast for 30 dollars... then two days later found the exact same dvd at a Best Buy for only 12.)

I like buying anime dvd's at used dvd stores. So far I haven't come up with 1 single damaged dvd and I'm saving a heck of a lot of money. I got the entire Outlaw Star series practically mint for about 40 dollars.

I also avoid buying dvd's of series that I know are going to be released in Latin america. I actually feel glad I didn't buy .hack SIGN dvd's 30 at bucks each since they are showing the show in Latin-america on tv.

For now I only want to concentrate buying R1 dvd's of anime I like with spanish dub tracks in them. Though sadly the process is very, very slow since even though I'm saving a lot of money, it's not all that cheap and I don't visit the US for more than 1 month's time. But rest assured that someday I'll have all of the dvd's of Evangelion tv (well, the old dvd version since ADVfilms ditched the spanish dubtrack in the thinpacks ¬¬), Those who hunt elves, Burn Up! Excess and Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040.

Isn't the Platinum collection the remastered (non-shaky) version with all the director's cut scenes?

If so, why would you specifically avoid the director's cut?

No spanish dub track. No Victor Ugarte makes me a sad kid.

[Leader Desslock]

Isn't the Platinum collection the remastered (non-shaky) version with all the director's cut scenes?

If so, why would you specifically avoid the director's cut?
Don't like the way the release was handled. Let's string people out with the standard edition in singles, then give 'em a box set, then - oh! Surprise! We TOTALLY didn't know we were planning to do this, so that's we didn't tell you before you spent all that money on the previous stuff, but we're actually gonna do it all over again with the Platinum edition. Which we'll once again release as singles then as the Platinum Box Set. And only THEN will we release a thinpack, but it won't have the extras. And oh - instead of lowering the price on a title we've already made our money on, we'll actually RAISE it like we're giving you something in return.

Sorry. The whole thing drips with marketing. Playing the consumer like an instrument to get the maximum cash out of him, just because they know the EVA fanbase contains a weird cult-like obsessed element that will pay premium dollar for what's new, regardless of whether it's worth the money or not.

I might've mentioned this in the past, but in case anyone's forgotten, I have a rabid, pathological loathing of marketing tactics and those who use them heavy-handedly. The way the Platinum release was handled smacked of a company taking the fanbase of its title for granted, and I really don't care to support that. I'll download the bloody thing first - and that's me saying that.

So - I'm perfectly happy with the original set, and if I'm going to spend my money on anything, it'll be that. But it needs to drop to a reasonable price. <checks AN> Hahaha - yeah, $153 ain't gonna cut it. I can get a lot more use and enjoyment out of the three box sets I could buy for that price instead. ^_^

[tenshi_a]

Ah... but I guess with this one it doesn't start with ADV... it was Gainax releasing the... I can't remember what version.... RE-IMPACT or RE-BIRTH or RE-something, version... I got the Japanese R2 Test-Type DVD (remastered 1st ep & extended op sequence), and thought "hey this is good" but didn't get the rest of the R2 remastered release. ADV had already released the Perfect DVD collection. Then they got the Platinums to match the R2 remastered version after a while.

So... yeah, Evangelion is the most milked anime title ever. But that's from Gainax, who otherwise have a fairly weak range of anime. They try too hard for another cult audience. The amount of merchandise for Eva... wait, the amount of damn-stupid-how-can-you-say-that's-even-related merchandise around Evangelion is.... ridiculous.

ADV are just milking the series because the original makers made it the ok thing to do.

I don't think taking it out on the Platinum thinpack is the answer. It seems to go a lot cheaper than the Perfect Collection on a certain popular online store ($45.96), but I can't tell you which one here on the AN forums. (I wonder if they ship to the UK... I expect not, they have their own UK version of the store...)

[Leader Desslock]

I don't think taking it out on the Platinum thinpack is the answer.
Every sale with the word Platinum on it sends back one single clear message of "it worked", in my opinion. I won't do it. I. Loathe. Marketing. The only interest I have in owning Evangelion is simply to own yet another one of Megumi Hayashibara's major roles (her least impressive, IMHO).

[Levon]

The Platinum is still much more worth it. Its not like it isn't an improvment & a gimmick, it really is what a re-release should be. Its an amazing release, and I'm not even into Evangelion much. The animation is remastered, removed the shaking of video, 5.1 Japanese(stunning!) & 5.1 English, both director cut episodes & non-director cut episodes, and extras. With the thinpak now released you can get it for around $50 which is a great deal.

[tenshi_a]

It's kind of awful to see someone refuse to buy something purely on grounds of marketing, wouldn't you hate it if you did some work and no matter how good it was, there was someone who wouldn't buy it because it had been marketed a certain way? This isn't the eva-branded lunchbox or the eva-branded collection of russian dolls, this is the actual series.

Really, what you're saying is you are cheap enough not to buy the set before, and you're upset they've pushed so many rereleases. But you're saying you've saved yourself from the previous releases so... would you be satisfied if it was out-of-print? Or that they were still peddling just the shaky old "perfect collection" for a higher price while the remastered director's cut version was available but they wouldn't sell it?

You still can't reduce a series down to marketing, that's horrible. If the marketing takes precedence for you, it won. You lost. The marketing made itself the whole, and defeated you. It's all you can see. That's what the marketing wants. Marketing over substance. If you can no longer see the substance behind it, you've lost your way.

[Leader Desslock]

It's kind of awful to see someone refuse to buy something purely on grounds of marketing ... If you can no longer see the substance behind it, you've lost your way.
I wasn't advocating it as the way everyone should be. It's simply the way I am. If folks don't like it, that's fine. I don't care either way.

You make it sound like I'm not giving the series a chance. I've already seen it. Three times though - the first two times on VHS. All I'm saying is that nothing about the Platinum release justifies me sending back a "good job!" message as a consumer. I'll be more than happy to buy the original release if I can find it for a reasonable price. By 'reasonable', I mean "the kind of price at which I can find other series of similar vintage and quality". There's nothing about Evangelion that inspires me to pay more than that. If other people want to pay top dollar for it, more power to them.

[Levon]

A reasonable price for that crappy old release would be like $20, good luck finding it that cheap. The price its selling for is around(or even more) than the Platinum thinpak.

$50 for the Platinum is more than a reasonable price.

The old release is very much like VHS. I believe the video & sound source they used was from the VHS and that Platinum is from the true video source(an Evangelion fan needs to correct me if I'm wrong).

[HSaabedra]

The master tapes for the VHS release were the ones used in the TV broadcast. ADV had the choice to release the "Platinum Edition" remaster from the outset, if they waited a month, but lo and behold they used the TV version out of greed in my opinion.

[tenshi_a]

All I'm saying is that nothing about the Platinum release justifies me sending back a "good job!" message as a consumer.
But.... not buying it because you don't want the series, because you don't think it's very good, because you'd just be buying it out of obligation to complete your Hayashibara Megumi collection, and because you don't want to spend much on something you're just buying out of obligation (and Rei doesn't exactly say much..), that's one thing. It's all good and well.

Specifically saying "no to the remastered / director's cut version because the remastered / director's cut version exists", that's absurd. Especially in this case where the director's cut scenes are actually relevant scenes.

It's saying "I think this show is low quality and I'll prove it by only recognising the low-quality version available". Which is disrespectful to the original piece, regardless of how you feel about a work of art, it's disrespectful to disregard its true form in favour of an inferior version just because of the marketing involved.

Wait another 10 years; the super-high-quality 1-disc (whatever media format we're using) version with all the extras and exclusive interview with Hideaki Anno discussing the importance of toenail clippings will be out. And the Platinum Edition will cost less than a loaf of bread. ;)

(Not due to the bread crisis we'll be having in 10 years from now, btw)

[Masokick]

...It's saying "I think this show is low quality and I'll prove it by only recognising the low-quality version available". Which is disrespectful to the original piece, regardless of how you feel about a work of art, it's disrespectful to disregard its true form in favour of an inferior version just because of the marketing involved....
I have to disagree with you on that point.

ADV/Gainax are the ones who re-leased the "low quality version" and they are responsible for putting it on the market as a sub-standard DVD. They could have waited, and re-mastered the original DVD release; but they chose not to do that, probably for profit-driven reasons. In this day and age, when illegal downloading is rampant, they expect people to buy an anime series; not just once, not twice, but three times? I agree with Leader Desslock's point, the whole "surprise we're releasing a super-deluxe edition after you already bought the box set and the singles!" angle. They had this planned for a long time.

And I wouldn't call the Platinum Edition "Evangelion's true form". It's re-mastered, re-done, not original. If it is the best form of Evangelion, that is what they should have released the first time around. As a consumer, doesn't it anger you that they are trying to milk money out of you?

If my favourite author publishes a novel, and keeps releasing "new" editions with extra chapters and revisions, I wouldn't shell out any more money on the newer copies. I support the artist once, but DVDs are getting ridiculous.

[Psychopuppet]

I personally would not have minded the Platinum version as much if ADV would have offered a trade in program for people that own the original singles and the original set.

I own both the original set and the thinpak set thanks to a friend buying it for me and while the Improved video , audio , and having the Director Cut version episodes are nice I could never had seen putting money out for the Platinum set myself if it would have been my money.

(I think I'm missing something in someones post so I doubt I made a point.)

[Leader Desslock]

Specifically saying "no to the remastered / director's cut version because the remastered / director's cut version exists", that's absurd.
You send the message you want as a consumer, I'll send the message I want to send as a consumer. I personally think it's absurd for a consumer to reward a company that's actively trying to milk a title's fanbase dry. If they'd have either waited for the Platinum release or told the fanbase in advance "we will be coming up with a remaster in a few years, if you want to wait", then I wouldn't have a problem with it. But they didn't disclose their plans for the remaster until after they'd had a healthy sale of the original box set. Not even their intent - they didn't announce up front, "If this sells X units, we're going to do a remaster". None of it. They chucked it out there, let the fanbase gobble it up, then said, "Oh, and by the way..." And THEN, the Platinum remaster was full price with the same Vol 1 w/ Artbox marketing crap that sucks even MORE money out of the fanbase.

I honestly and genuinely feel I would be remiss in my duties as a consumer to support that sort of behaviour in a company. I won't buy it. I would rather continue to NOT own the series than pay $1 for the Platinum series, if any portion of that $1 gets back to the producers. As I've repeatedly said, you can do as you please, however.

Especially in this case where the director's cut scenes are actually relevant scenes.
I somehow managed to appreciate the show without those scenes for all these years. I can get by without them now. As I've said, the Platinum release has nothing I feel I need. I don't need the extras, I don't need the deleted scenes. If there was a blooper reel, now that I might consider. (EVA 01 trips on a stray bus... Rei messes up her line and starts giggling uncontrollably... Asuka farts in the LCL and bubbles float up...)

...it's disrespectful to disregard its true form in favour of an inferior version just because of the marketing involved.
Not that Anno or anyone associated with the title care whether I respect their art or not, but for the record, they're the one's treating their "art" like a commodity here. I'm just not playing into the game. I'm also not into the whole "Oh, now that I've had time to think about it, I would've made it like THIS" repackaging of art. The series was good enough on first release. Live with the decisions you've made. You can't edit it 10 years after the fact.

[tenshi_a]

We're talking about a show that's having its 10th year anniversary, though. This is long term, you can't say "in this day and age" for this series. The industry climate was very different when this series was made.

If ADV truly bought the series and said "hey I think this series is going to be popular in 7-8 years time; how about we release a low-quality version now and release a remastered Director's Cut then?", that's truly bold speculation for a single series.... I really think most of the blame should rest on Gainax (who are still doing stuff like this (http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-9f-49-en-70-18ut.html)) and not on the Platinum thinpack.

If there was a blooper reel, now that I might consider. (EVA 01 trips on a stray bus... Rei messes up her line and starts giggling uncontrollably... Asuka farts in the LCL and bubbles float up...)
A lot of the videogames they made for Eva were like that. It's part of milking-the-franchise, definitely, but they're funny and I like them better than the series. (I think I'm the only one on the planet like that...)

[Leader Desslock]

Fine. Enjoy your Platinum release. :)

Edit: Not trying to be off-topic or obsess on this one release, but describing my habits as a consumer seems at least tangental to the thread. Not all Americans simply look for the cheapest price. Some of us seek to be informed and/or proactive consumers.

[Chousho]

Fine. Enjoy your Platinum release. :)

Edit: Not trying to be off-topic or obsess on this one release, but describing my habits as a consumer seems at least tangental to the thread. Not all Americans simply look for the cheapest price. Some of us seek to be informed and/or proactive consumers.

Hmm, well...
Not being that into Evangelion, I recently bought the Platinum pack. I had not previously bought any of the releases (although a friend had let me borrow the first two VHS tapes). I can understand you stating that you will not re-buy a series, I can even understand not wanting to buy into a marketing scheme/scam. But I won't let the fact that this is their third, fourth, whatever # release of the series stand in the way of me enjoying the series. I had only heard rumors of Evangelion being the best, being raised too high, and decided that $40 was not that bad to buy the whole series for myself to see.

Being Informed/proactive.... I bought this release because I had also read it fixed errors previous versions had been plauged with. For me, it doesn't matter if I had bought the original boxset or the platinum series. The money goes to the same place, and I chose the improved version to get into the series with. So far (other than a few DVD issues that aren't related to the series), I've had no complaints.

[Leader Desslock]

Sigh...

I wasn't advocating it as the way everyone should be... Enjoy your Platinum release.

I really don't care what sort of message y'all want to send as consumers. I only know what sort of message I want to send. If you want to support releases like the Platinum release, then I would by all means encourage you to purchase the release, send them your money, and let them know.

[Chousho]

Sigh...



I really don't care what sort of message y'all want to send as consumers. I only know what sort of message I want to send. If you want to support releases like the Platinum release, then I would by all means encourage you to purchase the release, send them your money, and let them know.

I am aware you were talking about yourself. However, you also seemed a bit adamant when you kept saying how the platinum series was inferior, when it seems to me more that you have a problem with the company. You may say that these are your opinions and yours only, which is true, but when you initiate a subject, it is good to follow through a little more than "yeah, well this is my opinion". It's somewhat degrading.

The fact that the Platinum series may not have added much to the whole of the fan base only means that there is a variant you can buy. To a new buyer like me, it means that I can choose from a greater variety. To an old fan, it may seem to be another way of screwing you out of your money, which I admit. However, as I said above, the Platinum series could have come out before another release, and not have seemed to be so much the straw that broke the camel's back.

Basically, what I'm saying is this. While you may feel that they are just screwing you out of your money because you have already bought the series, those of use who have only purchased it now find it to be a valuable purchase (perhaps because we see it for the product it is, rather than a marketing ploy, which all merchandise is to some extent).

Please do not think I am trying to defend the company, series, or to flame-bait you. I am just stating that it is better for later fans to have to choose from an oversaturation than to search for a product no longer being pressed.

[Leader Desslock]

First off...

...when you initiate a subject...
I didn't. Levon did:

If its the old release then its a complete waste of money now that Platinum is released.
...all I said after that was that the old release wasn't a complete waste of money to some folks; it was exactly what I wanted, for example. Everything past that has been justifying why I should hold such a market preference to people who seem to think I should prefer to own the Platinum release. Which I don't.

Next...

...you kept saying how the platinum series was inferior...
When did I do that? When did I say that the content of the Platinum release was inferior to the content of the original release? The closest I came was saying I disagree with artists who do retroactive edits - but even then I never indicated that the edits produced an inferior product.

...when it seems to me more that you have a problem with the company...
...which is all I ever said, repeatedly, thank you very much.

...To a new buyer like me, it means that I can choose from a greater variety...
Yeah, but even assuming I came into the market yesterday, I would still like to think I'd send the same message as a consumer. Supporting a release like Platinum Eva NOW means that GAINAX and other companies who follow their example are just going to continue pulling the same marketing games with titles in the future - and next time it might be a title I care about.

While you may feel that they are just screwing you out of your money because you have already bought the series...
The only money I've ever paid for Evangelion is one rental of the standard edition. And that's all I intend to pay until they drop the price of the standard edition down to the level I'd expect for a series of that quality and vintage. They seem to think I should pay more just because they put the little round stickers on the box set that say "Greatest Anime Series Of All Time", but I can't figure out why owning that sticker is so valuable. Is that sticker a collectible? ^_^

I am just stating that it is better for later fans to have to choose from an oversaturation than to search for a product no longer being pressed.
And my message as a consumer is that it's better for a company to press out another release of an old title at a lower price than it is to remaster it in order to keep releasing a vintage title for a premium price.

As I said before:

You send the message you want as a consumer, I'll send the message I want to send as a consumer.

[tenshi_a]

NOTE: I'm not trying to get you to buy the series, I'm just trying to get you to break free from seeing anime in terms of marketing only. Anime is anime, and should be rated on grounds of it being good or bad anime. If you don't want it because it's not good, that's ok. Getting hung up on this... makes you seem unnecessarily hateful, and it's a bad thing if you feel this way and avoid other series that you would otherwise see as being good.

And my message as a consumer is that it's better for a company to press out another release of an old title at a lower price than it is to remaster it in order to keep releasing a vintage title for a premium price.
If Chuusho bought the entire series as that collection for $40, that is *so much* cheaper than the rest of us who did buy it on videotape all those years back. Look back earlier on this thread... it was like $20 for 2 episodes, one language only, or something.

Foreigners like Chuusho and myself are picking this up on import because the American Platinum thinpack is now the cheapest copy available.

It's as though you're trying to be annoyed on behalf of other people because you feel they ought to feel cheated. It's not you who paid to own the series originally, after all.

If you had bought the series all those years ago, or you'd received it for Christmas one year or something, would you have destroyed your copy in disgust at the current marketing, by now?

The individual purchase doesn't send back a message; the message was sent back when they shipped all those thinpacks to the retailers, they've made their sale, it doesn't really matter what happens to them after that. Though if retailers are having to sell the series for $100 less than RRP, that's already sending back a message, don't you think?

Evangelion is a special case, this couldn't be done with any other series. The reason is there are so many Eva geeks around who've been rewatching the series and talking about nothing but Eva and not-watching-other-anime for the past 10 years, the money they haven't spent on other anime can readily be redirected into yet-another-Eva-thing.

But, having said that, how would you feel if it was another series being treated like this, that you like a lot more? If, straight out of nowhere a huge relaunch was scheduled and the market flooded with various repackagings? Would you suddenly hate the series? Or could you just focus your hatred towards the marketing campaign that had kicked off?

[Leader Desslock]

I'm just trying to get you to break free from seeing anime in terms of marketing only. Anime is anime, and should be rated on grounds of it being good or bad anime.
To my mind, anime is a commercial entertainment commodity, conceived and implemented by artists, then mass-produced and distributed by people seeking to make a profit on their investment. There's nothing wrong with that; nice work if you can get it, really. But please understand that as a conscious consumer of this commodity, I don't believe it behooves me to get swept up in the marketing hype and lose sight of the fact that it is a commercial entertainment commodity distributed for profit. Occasionally it rises to the level of art, and kudos when it does. But it never stops being a commodity, whether it's art or not.

Anime is a product on which the distributor would love for me to spend some of my money. By and large, most retailers don't care whether I'm getting a sufficiently diverse viewing experience, whether my aesthetic sensibilities are being challenged, etc. But they really do look at those sales figures. It's a commodity, no different than any other form of entertainment commodity.

Foreigners like Chuusho and myself are picking this up on import because the American Platinum thinpack is now the cheapest copy available.
Bully for you. That means "the cheapest available" is the message you're sending back to the producers/distributors, and the viewpoint you wish to have represented in this thread. Please understand if other people wish to send other messages back, or have other consumer views represented in this thread.

It's as though you're trying to be annoyed on behalf of other people because you feel they ought to feel cheated.
No, it's more like I'm saying over and over and over again that if you people are happy with the Platinum pack and the way it was released, by all means buy it yourselves, but please count me out. Why you seem to have a problem with this decision, I have no idea at all.

If you had bought the series all those years ago, or you'd received it for Christmas one year or something, would you have destroyed your copy in disgust at the current marketing
I'm sorry... didn't this all start out because I made a side note that the original version is the one I wanted? What the heck are you even talking about? Why would I destroy it? It's what I want! Aaagh!

The individual purchase doesn't send back a message
I'm sure the marketing gurus will be grateful that you've just turned over your power as a conscious consumer to them. They'll be rifling through your wallet now.

I'm sorry, but from my point of view, the producer works FOR the consumer. If the producer wishes to obtain the consumer's resources (money), then the producer needs to produce a product that the consumer wants. If the producer does so, he gets some money from the consumer and the consumer gets the product. That's good for both sides. Everyone's happy.

But - now assume that the producer makes a product that the consumer doesn't want. In this case, the consumer has no reason to buy it, does he? I mean, the producer sure would be glad if he did, but it's not really in the best interest of the consumer to do so. Which is why the producer then hires marketing people to convince the consumer that he really does want to trade some of his money for the product.

Now, if the marketing people aren't successful, then the consumer will still have his money, the producer will still have his product and the marketing people will get paid a minimal salary because they're not entirely stupid. None of the parties got what they ultimately wanted, but maybe - just maybe - they've all learned something. Maybe the producer will have learned to make the product that the consumer wants, next time around.

In this scenario, I'm the consumer. The message I'm sending the producer is as follows:
1) Make the product I want, which in this case is the original version, distributed at the same price point at which I can find series contemporary to Evangelion.
2) If you do that, you can have some of my money, otherwise I've got better things to spend it on.
3) Get your [harsh expletives deleted] marketing apes out of my face or I won't buy anything at all. (Okay, maybe I'm not actively sending that message back to the producer, but it's the one I'd most like to tell them in person at high volume, maybe with a slide presentation and rude hand gestures...)

Now - as near as I can tell in this scenario, you're like the producer's plucky sidekick. I haven't bought his product and his marketing apes have come back empty-handed, so you've come over to try and make nice between us. "You know, it really hurts his feelings that you don't want to look at his remastered product. Can't you just take a look at it? You might really like it, and it'd make him feel better."

Why you should want to do this I have no idea. The producer didn't make the product I want to buy at the price point I'm willing to pay, and that's the end of it. This is really not that complex a situation.

...the message was sent back when they shipped all those thinpacks to the retailers, they've made their sale, it doesn't really matter what happens to them after that.
...and if people like me don't buy those releases and the retailers can't sell them in the timeframe they projected, then the retailers are going to be more hesitant about buying large numbers of repackaged titles in the future, aren't they? Which means projected sales of those types of releases will be lower, which means they're less apt to be made. The market bends to the consumer's wishes. Cool, ain't it? The message doesn't have to go directly back to the producer to be heard. The message can go through the intermediaries just as easily. Either way, the consumer's dollar is the loudest voice in the market. Or SHOULD be, to my mind.

Evangelion is a special case...But, having said that, how would you feel if it was another series being treated like this, that you like a lot more?
I'm a huge Cowboy Bebop fan, and I'm not buying that remaster either - which is coincidently another main role (and a FAR better one) for Megumi Hayashibara. It so happens I already own Bebop and the KOHD movie, but if I didn't, I'd still want to own the original releases. And if strongarm marketing tactics had been used to milk the fanbase dry on the title, I'd be doing it just as fervently for exactly the same reasons.

Can we please drop me out of this discussion now? I've tried to explain my rationale as a consumer. If you haven't gotten it by now, you're not going to get it any time soon. So to end on the same note I've tried to make clear to you several times:

You send the message you want as a consumer, I'll send the message I want to send as a consumer.

[Masokick]

Some food for thought. I looked at AnimeNation's pricing for Evangelion, anybody care to explain the following?

Original Evangelion DVD 1 (no remastering) $26.98
Platinum DVD 1 (and NO box) $26.98
Platinum DVD 1 + collector's box $35.98
Platinum Thinpack $80.98
The original Perfect Collection box set $152.98

Note:
-An individual "sub-standard" DVD costs the exact same amount as one Platinum DVD. Apparently the whole re-mastering process is not as expensive as you might think.

-The Platinum thinpack set is just over two times the cost of ONE Platinum DVD and the collector's box, and the thinpack has no extras worth mentioning.

-The original Perfect Collection is is $72. more expensive than the Platinum thinpack! From the posts I've read, if the Platinum edition is so good, the original should drop dramatically in price, considering it's age, and the video and audio quality.

-If you buy each Platinum DVD individually, that is $26.98 * 7 = $188.86

-If you buy Platinum 01 + box, then the other 6 DVDs, price is $197.86
But the original Perfect Collection is $152.98 and that is only a difference of $44.88

I wonder; if the original Evangelion DVD release it so bad, why does it still cost so much?

(And to get back on topic, for the original poster's question, I think anime prices have come down somewhat, but they seem to get inflated for silly reasons. In my country the Evangelion VHS went for over $40. CAD for one tape when it first hit the market.)

[Mr. Nice]

I wonder; if the original Evangelion DVD release it so bad, why does it still cost so much? Because most etailers work on percentage mark downs from the RRP (and animenation's 10% markdown for ADV products is less then stellar). When newer/better releases are done, the older releases never just get their RRP changed. They simply stop being pressed and left to quietly disappear. Since no one sane will actually buy them, why does it matter what the nominal price etailers list them for?

[Kaneda_88]

I would like to note that even though anime is $20-$30 there are other forms of domestic media that are comparable and even more expensive. Take for example wrestling, now I am a big fan of pro wrestling since I was 5 but I have more anime dvd's than wrestling dvd's for 1 simple fact wrestling dvd's are usually more expensive. Take for example the WWE Wrestle Mania XX(20) dvd compared to say 1 of any anime dvd. Wrestle Mainia was $50.00 now take an anime like Kite this is around $25-30 (depending on version) now lets compare box sets the entire WWE '05 ppv event set is $250-300 depending on retailer where as most box set for any anime is around $50-$200(depending on realese) also note that wrestling dvds do not vary in price after realese after any amount of time the price NORMALLY stays the same. To sum this little query up no anime in the states is NOT to expensive especially with all things considered (dubing royalties licensing ect. . .) especially compared to a domestic product like wrestling. Oh and I do live in the U.S. I live in Hawaii so we have to wait for most stuff 3-6 months after the reales and pay a bit more at the retail outlet of purchase(usually a bucker 2 more) any way like I said No i do not think it's to expensive here in the states.

[Masokick]

I get what you are saying, but some wrestlers are paid big salaries and the insane price of their pay-per-views and DVDs help to cover that cost.

With an anime like Evangelion, they have to pay the animation studio, writers, voice actors, and people directly involved in the show. I have no idea how much a popular voice actress like Megumi Hayashibara gets for a role, but I somehow doubt it justifies the cost of the DVDs, more than a decade after the initial televison run.

[Kaneda_88]

very true i can't argue with that because so of the wrestlers do get paid insane salaries but usually DOES drop in price except in some cases such as evangelion
but i still think the price is fairly resonable.

[Suiko Eiji]

Still, they do lose money with the fansubing and HK Industry.

And many HK's (the name is for convenience) are made in Indonesia and the Phillipenes as well as Taiwan - which isn't a member of the Berne convention unless they consider Taiwan part of China.

Been meaning to get back into this ...

And you know what, you're absolutely right about this. None of those countries recognize the Berne Conventions (and I don't think any of them are members of the other copyright enforecement agreements). Perhaps other countries in the EU, Japan, and the US should put pressure on Indonesia and the Phillippenes. The US could make future military support for Taiwan dependent on thier ratification and enforcement of the Berne Conventions. Taipei may not like it now, but let's just wait for a hardliner from Beijing who can actually build some boats to get the PLA across the sea and into Taiwan and we'll see.


China should enforce copyright, but hey look at the US blowing off the UN - it's universal that countries ignore things they shouldn't.

Apples and Oranges, my friend.


In short on the whole Eva Platinum discussion, I'll agree with Dess that ADV seemed a little shady with announcing the Plats and a buy-back program would have been nice. As such the buy back was not the case, I have the first boxset on DVD and I won't replace it until it gets destroyed. Eva's just not one of those series that I'm going to spend my hard-earned dollars on multiple times for multiple collections. While I think everyone should pay for thier anime, I don't think people have to spend top dollar on everything nor do I think they need to own everything in existence unless they absolutely want to.

[Leader Desslock]

None of those countries recognize the Berne Conventions (and I don't think any of them are members of the other copyright enforecement agreements).

*sigh*

Indonesia: Berne Convention - September 5, 1997
Philipines: Berne Convention - August 1, 1951
Taiwan: Covered internationally under the People's Republic of China, member of the Berne Convention since October 15, 1992

Additionally, China, Indonesia and the Philippines are covered under several other international treaties regarding copyright. Please look it up before spreading misinformation next time. <_<

[spookyruthy]

If you think it's expensive in America, try buying manga or anime in the UK. First off, you have to find a place that sells it (it's becoming more mainstream here, so popular bookstores have begun to pick up the trend, but at a hefty price) and then you have to cough up about £8.99 just to have a new book to your collection. If you think that the £-$ rate is 1.80 dollars for every pound, you'd be paying nearly $17 for the same manga.

I'm not saying that the UK is a rip-off, or that America is cheap. I just accept that manga generally is a minority read, so you have to expect to pay slightly more for it than your bog-standard novel.

[Suiko Eiji]

*sigh*

Indonesia: Berne Convention - September 5, 1997
Philipines: Berne Convention - August 1, 1951
Taiwan: Covered internationally under the People's Republic of China, member of the Berne Convention since October 15, 1992

Additionally, China, Indonesia and the Philippines are covered under several other international treaties regarding copyright. Please look it up before spreading misinformation next time. <_<

I'll admit it when I'm wrong. You've got me this time. I could have swore up and down that I looked for all of these places in the convention. The Phillppenes and Indonesia are on there after all. I, however, cannot find mention of Taiwan falling under the PRC; only Hong Kong and Macau Special Administrative Regions are mentioned.

PDF of Berne Parties (http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/documents/pdf/e-berne.pdf) [pdf] is what I've been working from and I cannot find mention of Taiwan/Chinese Taipei; perhaps you have another source?

And I'll also admit that I threw in my spiel about the "lack of other copyright treaties" based upon a Wiki that wasn't fully researched. Again, my fault.

[Leader Desslock]

PDF of Berne Parties (http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/documents/pdf/e-berne.pdf) [pdf] is what I've been working from and I cannot find mention of Taiwan/Chinese Taipei; perhaps you have another source?
Look up the One China policy of the People's Republic of China. Taiwan is covered by the fact that China is covered. Of course, this is a source of diplomatic tension on both sides of the strait, but the international community is, by and large, staying out of it. According to China, its treaties are in effect for Taiwan, and until Tawian's independence and sovereignty are formally recognized by the international community, that's the way it goes.

[Jenni_Starwind]

that's why you download anime :D

[birdcat]

Anime really isn't expensive at all. I mean, the vast majority of single discs go for $17, with three to five episodes per disc, and the DVD 1+Box's go for about $23. Then complete boxsets generally go for anywhere between $30 to $100. I generally spend about $50-$125 on anime a month, and I always have plenty to watch. Hell, I just spent $162 (including shipping) and picked up 13 dvds (five of which weren't anime). Thats $12 and change per dvd right there. Money well spent if you ask me.

I mean, how much can one person watch in a month anyway?

[Suiko Eiji]

Look up the One China policy of the People's Republic of China. Taiwan is covered by the fact that China is covered. Of course, this is a source of diplomatic tension on both sides of the strait, but the international community is, by and large, staying out of it. According to China, its treaties are in effect for Taiwan, and until Tawian's independence and sovereignty are formally recognized by the international community, that's the way it goes.

I was aware of the One China policy but I was unaware that, in case of the Berne Agreements, unless it was specificaly noted (as was with Hong Kong and Macau) that it may not have applied there. The PRC may have signed with the intention of Taiwan's inclusion, but Taipei considers itself soverign, not to mention a handful of countries accept both Taipei, ROC and Beijing, PRC as legitimate governments and two seperate soverign nations.

Should the Berne Agreement not recognize the ROC and considers the PRC to speak for all of China, then I'll reform my statement in limiting future military assisstance to Taiwan being pendent on thier enforcement of the Terms of the Convention.

[Leader Desslock]

...Taipei considers itself soverign, not to mention a handful of countries accept both Taipei, ROC and Beijing, PRC as legitimate governments and two seperate soverign nations.
The words "a handful" are especially relevant here. Tuvalu might recognize the ROC, but China, Japan, the EU and the United States do not formally recognize Tawain's status as a sovereign nation. Therefore, as far as the issue of anime bootlegs produced in Taiwan are concerned (the topic, if you recall), for the bulk of this forum, the issue of 'legality' has been established by our respective governments. Issue done and over with until something changes the status quo on Taiwanese sovereignty, which none of the member nations seem particularly eager to do.

Should the Berne Agreement not recognize the ROC...
The agreement doesn't care; it's whether the member nations of the agreement recognize the ROC, which, as I pointed out above, most of them do not.

[Salainen]

Anime is expensive everywhere. I usually get it from online, at least it is a little more affordable that way.

[spookyruthy]

Anime really isn't expensive at all. I mean, the vast majority of single discs go for $17, with three to five episodes per disc, and the DVD 1+Box's go for about $23. Then complete boxsets generally go for anywhere between $30 to $100. I generally spend about $50-$125 on anime a month, and I always have plenty to watch. Hell, I just spent $162 (including shipping) and picked up 13 dvds (five of which weren't anime). Thats $12 and change per dvd right there. Money well spent if you ask me.

I mean, how much can one person watch in a month anyway?

You'd be surprised.

[Suiko Eiji]

^ I would agree; it depends.

To me, the relationship to what I can afford and how much I can watch are inversely proportional. If I didn't work, the amount of time I devote to watching anime would increase about 57 hours per average work week. However, the amount of money I could budget because I am not working would fall somewhere around zero.

[tlsmith1963]

About John's comment that subbed anime isn't shown on cable & broadcast TV in America: I happened to come across Samurai Seven the other night on IFC. I figured that it would be subbed since they do air subbed movies (love those Zatoichi films!), but they aired the dub instead. I found that strange. I could understand other networks not wanting to air subbed anime, but IFC's audience is used to subs. Weird.

Tammy

[CyberNinja5]

Once again it depends on what DVD you are buying. I burn some DVD's from my friend but still buy at least one box set every month its just sometimes too expensive to buy a box set.

[Rikku_Elessdill]

in wales its sooo hard to get hold of any anime or manga and when you do find it, it costs an arm and a leg!

the only place i can get it now is from the net, if i buy american titles because of the exchange rates its pretty cheap

it just means i have to play with the regions on the dvd player but my boyfriend does all that because i dont have a clue lol

[armax1980]

Anime isn't all that expensive if you order online(average price $19+shipping). But its usually expensive if you buy from anime shops that don't get most of their stuff directly from the manufacturer. On the other hand, anime wouldn't be so expensive to start with if it weren't for those who demanded a dubbed version. Hiring english voice actors cost money and that is added to the licensing fee which is later passed onto us customers.

[Paul Soth]

On the other hand, anime wouldn't be so expensive to start with if it weren't for those who demanded a dubbed version. Hiring english voice actors cost money and that is added to the licensing fee which is later passed onto us customers.

Wow, you never bought anime on VHS, have you?

[Leader Desslock]

...On the other hand, anime wouldn't be so expensive to start with if it weren't for those who demanded a dubbed version. Hiring english voice actors cost money and that is added to the licensing fee which is later passed onto us customers.
That is an entirely false statement, and I say that as someone who mainly watches the Japanese voice track.

Adding an English voice track makes the title more marketable, which increases sales, which allows for a larger release at a lower unit cost. Which means it's cheaper. Dubs are a good thing for ALL of us.

[Levon]

Ha, without dubs the market in the US would be VERY different, we wouldn't get all the anime we are getting now & if anything they would raise the price higher so they can make a profit:lol:

[Mr. sickVisionz]

I think anime is far too expensive. Four episodes of FMA on one DVD cost the same as like a 2 disc deluxe edition of a hollywood movie... and that'll have commentary and like 5 hours of bonus features. With anime, the only bonuses are opening credits and forced previews everytime you pop a disc in.

Now, I will say that those slim case box sets are a great deal. I got all of NGE for like $49.99 retail... then had to pay $44.99 just to get Death & Rebirt/End of EVA... lol, and half the content on those disc is identical. I've learned though. Now if I really like a series i'll buy the volume that comes with a box and NetFlix/Easy CD Creator the rest.

If anime was closer to like $14.99-17.99 (ie the price of a basic DVD release) per disc i'd buy it. They charge crazy like they import anime or something. LOL, all they do is send a digital master to a US pressing plant and its job done. No importing. Just a "rape style" pricing scheme. Plus, they only put like 3 twenty-two minute episodes on some of these things. Put the DVD on your computer and some titles (Lain, Elfen Lied) are barely holding 3 gigs of data. Regular dvds hold 4.7gigs and dual layer hold like 8 something. Not only do they rape the US buyer on price, but they kill him by giving him half empty DVDs just so they can make more $$$$.

The fact that 2+ hour movies like Harry Potter sell on one DVD makes it crazy to see 13 twenty-two episodes stretched to 4 and 5 discs. And these disc have zero bonus content (opening credits and previews do not make bonus content... neither do pictures of the characters) alot of time. You're begging for piracy when you do stuff like that.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

Wow, you never bought anime on VHS, have you?

Its 2006... do they even make VCRs anymore?

[Suiko Eiji]

Its 2006... do they even make VCRs anymore?

It's not a matter of whether or not the hardware is available anymore, as pointed out above in a couple of other posts, armax's logic that "dubs increase costs" is completely false.

Subtitled anime, whether on DVD or VHS, is a niche within a niche. Back in the days of VHS, when one had to pick one format over another (or buy duplicates of every cassette), subtitled VHS still cost more than dubs. Why? Becuase people were less inclined to buy them for one reason or another. While the product cost was about the same to subtitle or dub and release a VHS, the profit margin was much smaller because of fewer sales. If anything, when the industry began releasing Bilingual tracks on DVDs, anime fans were cut a HUGE deal because we could purchase both things in one unit for roughly the cost of one dubbed VHS.

I think anime is far too expensive. Four episodes of FMA on one DVD cost the same as like a 2 disc deluxe edition of a hollywood movie... and that'll have commentary and like 5 hours of bonus features. With anime, the only bonuses are opening credits and forced previews everytime you pop a disc in.

Again, another false argument. DVD costs for domestic films can remain low because the companies that produce those films automatically retain rights for home video for the region. People cite again and again that two anime DVDs (~8 episodes) costs about the same as the entires Xth season of The Simpsons or Family Guy. Fox has already made more than enough money to cover production costs for both of those series through thier original broadcast advertising and sales of syndication rights; anime just doesn't have that kind of exposure. They could probably sell each of those box-sets at cost and anything they brought in would still be pure revenue in the long run. If anime were released in the US following the exact same business model, then you might have a point; the heart of the matter is that you're comparing apples and oranges.

While I agree that anime DVDs should get rid of annoying forced previews (it wasn't always that way), it's no where near the top of my list of grievances.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

Again, another false argument. DVD costs for domestic films can remain low because the companies that produce those films automatically retain rights for home video for the region. People cite again and again that two anime DVDs (~8 episodes) costs about the same as the entires Xth season of The Simpsons or Family Guy. Fox has already made more than enough money to cover production costs for both of those series through thier original broadcast advertising and sales of syndication rights; anime just doesn't have that kind of exposure. They could probably sell each of those box-sets at cost and anything they brought in would still be pure revenue in the long run. If anime were released in the US following the exact same business model, then you might have a point; the heart of the matter is that you're comparing apples and oranges.

While I agree that anime DVDs should get rid of annoying forced previews (it wasn't always that way), it's no where near the top of my list of grievances.

That doesn't change the fact of what I said. My argument that anime cost way more than american films is still valid. Theres a reason why, which you explained, but that doesn't change the reality that the situation does indeed exist.

The thread asks if we think anime is too expensive in america. When I can buy a whole season of an american cartoons for the price of 8 (or sometimes even six if they pull that 3 per disc crap) anime episodes... anime is expensive. It may be justified, as you believe, but that doesn't change the fact that it is indeed more expansive than other similar product on the market.


They could probably sell each of those box-sets at cost and anything they brought in would still be pure revenue in the long run

Anytime you bring in money, thats revenue. Whether thats short run or long run, profit or loss.

[Suiko Eiji]

That doesn't change the fact of what I said. My argument that anime cost way more than american films is still valid. Theres a reason why, which you explained, but that doesn't change the reality that the situation does indeed exist.

The only fact you stated is that Domestic Films/TV are cheaper than Domesticated Anime. If you think of it as just a price comparison and do not take into account the extra costs of doing business, then I suppose one might find your scenario true and one might think of it as being apples to apples. The problem is, that there are other costs associated in producing Domesticated Anime that are not present in Domestic Film/TV; so they're not apples to apples.



They could probably sell each of those box-sets at cost and anything they brought in would still be pure revenue in the long run

Anytime you bring in money, thats revenue. Whether thats short run or long run, profit or loss.

Fair enough, you've got me on a slip; pure profit.

[Shinjuku]

Anime is expensive. Of course there are reasons for it and there are places where its more expensive, but that doesn't change the fact that at regular price it costs a lot more than other tv shows and movies on dvd. The only reason I would pay $30 for a four episode dvd is because I really like anime. I would never consider paying that price for a non-anime title. Its an expensive hobby. I see people giving good reasons for the high price but that doesn't change the fact that its high. Thats like saying a Mercedes isn't expensive becuase its worth it and there's a good reason for the price. I honestly don't really care that much though. I'll just rent it, watch fansubs and decide whats really worth $20-40(SE).

[Philemon]

It amazes me of anime fans complaining about the price of non-essential items, which are nothing more than small luxuries. Anime is a hobby, not food.

[Kaneda_88]

It amazes me of anime fans complaining about the price of non-essential items, which are nothing more than small luxuries. Anime is a hobby, not food.
Ah so very true Philemon anime is a hobby and a luxury well said ^_^

[Amuro]

Expensive?

Not in my opinion. The first season of Star Trek with 28 episodes sells for $96 , while the whole 85-episode Robotech series sells for $78, with a comparable set of extras. The 49-episode G Gundam and Gundam Wing collections sell for $60 dollars each ($30 for each box of the 2-box release).

[Kaneda_88]

I would like to note that even though anime is $20-$30 there are other forms of domestic media that are comparable and even more expensive. Take for example wrestling, now I am a big fan of pro wrestling since I was 5 but I have more anime dvd's than wrestling dvd's for 1 simple fact wrestling dvd's are usually more expensive. Take for example the WWE Wrestle Mania XX(20) dvd compared to say 1 of any anime dvd. Wrestle Mainia was $50.00 now take an anime like Kite this is around $25-30 (depending on version) now lets compare box sets the entire WWE '05 ppv event set is $250-300 depending on retailer where as most box set for any anime is around $50-$200(depending on realese) also note that wrestling dvds do not vary in price after realese after any amount of time the price NORMALLY stays the same. To sum this little query up no anime in the states is NOT to expensive especially with all things considered (dubing royalties licensing ect. . .) especially compared to a domestic product like wrestling. Oh and I do live in the U.S. I live in Hawaii so we have to wait for most stuff 3-6 months after the reales and pay a bit more at the retail outlet of purchase(usually a bucker 2 more) any way like I said No i do not think it's to expensive here in the states.

Just to repeat myself on the issue and no my opinion is still the same. . .


Expensive?

Not in my opinion. The first season of Star Trek with 28 episodes sells for $96 , while the whole 85-episode Robotech series sells for $78, with a comparable set of extras. The 49-episode G Gundam and Gundam Wing collections sell for $60 dollars each ($30 for each box of the 2-box release).


Ah basically what I said there are compareabelly priced DOMESTIC media products and as was stated anime is a luxury item not a nessesity.

[Amuro]

Ah basically what I said there are compareabelly priced DOMESTIC media products and as was stated anime is a luxury item not a nessesity.

I was actually saying that anime is often way cheaper than domestic media products.

[Samurai Drifter]

Eh, not usually. Usually a single DVD costs about $10 more than a domestic movie. Occasionally there'll be less expensive sets, but not too often.

[Kaneda_88]

@ Amuro: took that in the wrong context but thank you for correcting me

back to the topic, I will admit that compared to an American movie anime is
more expensive but it doesn't cahnge the fact that compared to other media
it's still not that bad a price. 1 game for ps2 on release is $50 360 is uped to
60-65$. I still like the price of anime much more. . . . .

[whatsherface]

Anybody ever try e-bay? That's where I get my anime and manga. Best Buy also has decent priced anime.

[Suiko Eiji]

^I've surfed e-bay looking for stuff not available anymore (like LaserDiscs) but it's so rife with bootlegs that it's kind of a mixed bag.

[Kaneda_88]

Ah yes e-bay is a good place to find good deals but you
have to really watch because like has been stated bootlegs
and scams are rife,follow the old adedge If it seems too good
to be true it probablly is(not true).

[Egyptpower]

Anime is too expensive in Egypt. Why because we don't get decent animes (They mostly sell crap like pokemon) therefore in order to get anime i either have to buy DVD's (too expensive a dollar is more than 5 Egyptian pounds) or download (Thank god for fansubs)

[soulreaper]

Anybody ever try e-bay? That's where I get my anime and manga. Best Buy also has decent priced anime.

I buy from both of those places, but also from Amazon. It sells practically everything, so if I want to through in a game or a manga with my order, I can do so. eBay is still great, though.

[ArcaJ]

Ah yes e-bay is a good place to find good deals but you
have to really watch because like has been stated bootlegs
and scams are rife,follow the old adedge If it seems too good
to be true it probablly is(not true).

A friend of mine got an Evangelion set from ebay. It came with all the episodes plus both movies. The odd thing was, the disc menus, credits and everything else were from the ADV release but ADV's markings were nowhere on the cases or discs.

::HUGS::

Arca Jeth

[Takumi Fujiwara]

^the tv series and the movies never came together as a set as far as I'm aware, so unless they were seperate (which I'm doubting at this point) and the lack of ADV logos would lead me to believe he bought a bootleg, and being that it was from ebay thats not a giant suprise.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

The problem is, that there are other costs associated in producing Domesticated Anime that are not present in Domestic Film/TV; so they're not apples to apples.

WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING THIS?

Its is not apples and oranges. At worst, its imported apples vs domesticly grown apples... either way both are apples!!!!

[NTsan]

I say that anime is at a fair price.

I go to Suncoast and anime is $25 - $30.

While at Best Buy it's around $20 (But fewer selections).

Now This is expensive (http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=200139)

Consider over 100 hours of entertainment on that game it is much cheaper than 2 hour per disc on anime episodes

You should compare to the sexy Geforce 7950 1GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150160)card now that is expensive (as part of PC gamer and annual upgrades, still cheaper than car hobbyst though)

On paper Taiwan is part of China, but in reality they have their own government/laws, they don't get into hands with each other's policy (well except independence from China)

So hence in Taiwan you can produce disc that are not from taiwan or have no distributor in Taiwan without getting sued or shut down (unless political pressure), China have absolutely nothing to do about it since Taiwan is governing on it own.

Also the anime budget in Japan is much cheaper than in US, as the salary is insanely low (source (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=28856))

[djcubez]

I'll get something for as cheap as possible without crossing the law. It's just not worth it. Also, if I enjoy something I would be willing to pay a higher price for it.

[Suiko Eiji]

WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING THIS?

Its is not apples and oranges. At worst, its imported apples vs domesticly grown apples... either way both are apples!!!!

I keep saying this because they are different. As I illustrated in the post you quoted, only portions of production are similar between the two. You are treating them at the price level only, not taking into account the size of markets and all of the production costs involved that are reflected in price.

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

Like i said before,Anime in North America is at a decent price.I have no complaints.

[HSaabedra]

It seems to me that the people that complain about the price are usually ones with a lower amount of disposable income. They enjoy anime but are looking for the cheapest way to buy. When I bought VHS, I realized that I had to make choices in what I wanted to spend money on. Anime really is for those that are willing to spend money for entertainment.

[fujyoshi]

Anime is dirt cheap in the US. In Japan, they have to pay $60-$80+ for one or two episodes on DVD.

seriously, I'll never complain about another overpriced thing again.

[Klipz]

Alright I disagree that United States have decent prices. The latest anime box set that came out that I know is Samurai Champloo, if anyone seen this anime you would know that it's a great anime. What I don't get is WHY do they sell the box set for $139.99 (amazon price)? The box set have 6 disc of DVD and 26 episodes. Now, lets compare that to another box set like the Godfather box set with three movies and an special dvd. Three of Godfather's live movies are not cheap, when the item was first release, it was $49.99. Then after 3 months it has gone down to $35.99, and $49.99 and $35.99 are both reasonable prices.

If you compare Godfather to Samurai Champloo, you will have to admit that making 3 movies of Godfather would cost a lot more than Samurai Champloo. So why isn't Godfather not being sold for over $100? You might be saying "It's because it was release in theaters and they gained back their money from the production." Well, how much does it cost to actually dub a anime? I think it will be cheaper than making 3 movies, also you can make toys, key chains, clocks, anything to put that anime on and fans would buy it so they get a big income from merchandise. So if you make the box set lower than $50 and making the dvds that hold 3 episode like around $15 dollars or even $20 is reasonable.

When I was around the age of 15, I bought anime for $25 - $30 dollars for the dvd, not the box set. I bought Trigun, Evangelion, and Berserk entire dvd collection. If I go search for those animes, each have box set and being sold around $40 - $50 dollars. Basically so two dvds that I bought for $25 dollars each, would have got me the box set. I don't like that and that's why I will wait for the prices to go down, or find someone selling the used item.

Now, you're saying that Japan dvd prices are too high. Well if United States had cheaper prices and offers the english and japanese language, then wouldn't you think they will get more consumers from Japan and USA?

[EternityOfPain]

First, for all of you who whine regarding "high prices" there are ALWAYS ways to get Region 1 DVDs (100% ligit) for very good and resonable prices. Its just to many people are lazy to surf the internet to find those deals.

[Klipz]

So you are telling me, that you think a newly released anime box set for $79.99 - $139.99 is a good deal? I mean yes we can probably search the web and find a place that will take $20 dollars off the retail price. I don't think its lazy to want to pay less, I mean I am working for that money. Is it insane to work hard for your money, and want to get a anime dvd or box set that isn't 1/2 ( if your part time ) or 1/3 ( if your full time ) of your pay check.

[Kaneda_88]

Anime is not to bad on the price point look at games or even certain
other media on dvd. Also think back ten to 15 years buring the VHS and
LaserDisc eras, a vhs release could cost from 20 to 50$ US a Laserdisc
from 40 to your left arm for a US MOVIE release anime was even more.
Anime is at its current price a good deal and if you need more of a deal
look for sales on and offline there there just look. . .

[Levon]

Alright I disagree that United States have decent prices. The latest anime box set that came out that I know is Samurai Champloo, if anyone seen this anime you would know that it's a great anime. What I don't get is WHY do they sell the box set for $139.99 (amazon price)? The box set have 6 disc of DVD and 26 episodes. Now, lets compare that to another box set like the Godfather box set with three movies and an special dvd. Three of Godfather's live movies are not cheap, when the item was first release, it was $49.99. Then after 3 months it has gone down to $35.99, and $49.99 and $35.99 are both reasonable prices.



Samurai Champloo is expensive because it was released by Geneon who is known for releasing expensive boxsets. Most other anime companies arn't like that.

[birdcat]

If you actually look around (who buys anime off Amazon?) you'll find lower prices for that boxset. Such as one place I buy mine from, where it costs $124. Also, the set has seven dvds, not six.

$124 divided by 7, is $17 and change. Which is basically $1 cheaper than buying the singles. Anime is not overpriced. I can pick up nearly any series for the same price as any other non-Anime dvd. If you think Anime is overpriced, then you must feel the same about non-Anime dvds as well.

Case in point:

Underworld Evolution - $20.26
Final Destination 3 - $19.63
Star Wars Episode III - $20.66

Samurai Champloo (any single) - $18.61
Samurai Champloo (value of a single in the boxset) - $17.71 (roughly)
Desert Punk Vol 1 - $17.08
Planetes Vol 2 - $17.08


All prices taken from my one online source of Anime and other dvds.

Seriously now. Look at those numbers. How can anyone claim that anime is overpriced? I rest my case.

[Mr. Nice]

Samurai Champloo is expensive because it was released by Geneon who is known for releasing expensive boxsets. Most other anime companies arn't like that.Not to mention that it's only six months after the last single's release, "cheap" boxsets generally don't appear until at least a year after the last single, if not longer. By comparison, Geneons complete boxsets which are only a nominal $10 less then the combined cost of the singles have come out day and date with the last single release in the past.

Case in point:
[snip]
Heh, cute try but a bit blatant that you had to choose three theatrical releases to match the price of anime discs from tv. The more telling cost comparison is with the boxsets of US tv shows. On a runtime basis, they are in the order of 2 to 3 times cheaper then the "cheap" anime boxsets, let alone the cost of anime singles which come out in the order of six times more expensive.

Personally I would say that while anime is expensive, it's not too expensive. It's the price you pay for being involved with a niche hobby. They just don't shift the amount of units required to make a profit at the US tv show prices.

[Philemon]

Does anyone think that people complaining about anime being "too expensive" fail to understand the laws of economics? Also, what defines "too expensive" or "over-priced"? One man's "too expensive" is another man's "reasonable price."

[birdcat]

Heh, cute try but a bit blatant that you had to choose three theatrical releases to match the price of anime discs from tv. The more telling cost comparison is with the boxsets of US tv shows. On a runtime basis, they are in the order of 2 to 3 times cheaper then the "cheap" anime boxsets, let alone the cost of anime singles which come out in the order of six times more expensive.



Thats pretty much all I buy,but then I don't look at it that way as well. I always look at the price of the dvd. As far as I'm concerned $17-$20 is the standard price. Anything cheaper is always a bonus.

I mean hey, don't make me drag out the prices for X-Files and Star Trek series. :P

[Meganly-chan]

When I was a new fan, anime was only available on VHS, you only got one audio and 2-3 episodes per tape, 4 if you were really lucky. And I spent roughly $114 each on my Slayers DVD sets way back in the day, compared to the $30, $40 season thinkpaks we've been seeing. Avoid physical stores that charge retail or close to it. Check DVD Pacific, Ebay, whatever, and you can get some pretty good legit deals.

[sfried]

Why does everybody here think that there are no frugal anime fans, and that many hobbyists have cash to blow everywhere? Part of having a good economical anime hobby is to be critical, selective, and logical with your purchases.

1)Don't buy a series you are unsure off or have no desire to watch immediately but do so anyways because everyone else has it. In other words, don't feel obliged to buy Evangelion just because your new to the hobby and must watch it. For all you know you might not like it but everyone tells you it's a "good series" just because of the fanservice... <_<

2)If there are good one-shot anime shows tha you feel that need to be watched (at least once), borrow from a friend or rent from the library. If all else fails, try the renting service.

3)Wait for box sets and thinpacks for long series. Don't fall for the good ol' follow the volume purchases. It will save you time, money, and needless "anime suspense".

4)Compare prices. Don't be fooled at the cons. Only buy if you have absolutley no time to go hunting for it later (like a good series turned rare).

5)Look for places to watch. You might not know you have the "Anime Network" on your cable. Go to clubs, etc.

In all personal opinion, I don't think anime is as expensive as it was back in the day. Whoever said "anime is an expensive hobby" really doesn't know where to look except on the big name places.

Now importing, that's another matter...

[Kaneda_88]

Why does everybody here think that there are no frugal anime fans, and that many hobbyists have cash to blow everywhere? Part of having a good economical anime hobby is to be critical, selective, and logical with your purchases.

1)Don't buy a series you are unsure off or have no desire to watch immediately but do so anyways because everyone else has it. In other words, don't feel obliged to buy Evangelion just because your new to the hobby and must watch it. For all you know you might not like it but everyone tells you it's a "good series" just because of the fanservice... <_<

2)If there are good one-shot anime shows tha you feel that need to be watched (at least once), borrow from a friend or rent from the library. If all else fails, try the renting service.

3)Wait for box sets and thinpacks for long series. Don't fall for the good ol' follow the volume purchases. It will save you time, money, and needless "anime suspense".

4)Compare prices. Don't be fooled at the cons. Only buy if you have absolutley no time to go hunting for it later (like a good series turned rare).

5)Look for places to watch. You might not know you have the "Anime Network" on your cable. Go to clubs, etc.

In all personal opinion, I don't think anime is as expensive as it was back in the day. Whoever said "anime is an expensive hobby" really doesn't know where to look except on the big name places.

Now importing, that's another matter...


Best advice I have heard to date.

[Suiko Eiji]

Why does everybody here think that there are no frugal anime fans, and that many hobbyists have cash to blow everywhere? Part of having a good economical anime hobby is to be critical, selective, and logical with your purchases.

1)Don't buy a series you are unsure off or have no desire to watch immediately but do so anyways because everyone else has it. In other words, don't feel obliged to buy Evangelion just because your new to the hobby and must watch it.

2)If there are good one-shot anime shows tha you feel that need to be watched (at least once), borrow from a friend or rent from the library. If all else fails, try the renting service.

3)Wait for box sets and thinpacks for long series. Don't fall for the good ol' follow the volue purchases. It will sve you time, money, and needless "anime suspense".

4)Compare prices. Don't be fooled at the cons. Only buy if you have absolutley no time to go hunting for it later (like a good series turned rare).

5)Look for places to watch. You might not know you have the "Anime Network" on your cable. Go to clubs, etc.

In all personal opinion, I don't think anime is as expensive as it was back in the day. Whoever said "anime is an expensive hobby" really doesn't know where to look except on the big name places.

Now importing, that's another matter...

I don't necessarily think that it is because anime fans aren't frugal. I think a part of it is what's know as sticker-shock; to take birdcat's example, you look at mainstream types of DVD releases, and pulling a page from Mr. Nice's notes, compare the per episode or runtimes to the prices. In raw dollars, the price is higher; however, given the added costs of production and projected sales, it's not exactly, in my opinion, more expensive.

Despite that, I'm picky with what I buy simply because of my tastes in anime. You can wait for the thin-pak, ultra-economy boxes, pick up stuff from the 80% off sales, or trade/buy used from friends all you want, the point is, it will probably end up costing you something in the end. In the ten + years I've been collecting anime, I estimate my entire collection to be a minimum of $5000.00 and if it breaks $10,000.00, it wouldn't surprise me. From the ages of 11 to 23, I am sure there are plenty of better things that money could have been spent on.

I certainly agree that anime doesn't have to be expensive, but if there are tons of titles that one likes to watch over and over again, it can get expensive. How much one spends on anime isn't only dependent on where one shops, but it is also dependent on how much control one has over their desire to spend.

[birdcat]

I think another thing people are overlooking is that anime is basically imported from Japan. Nearly everything you import from another country is going to be expensive, compared to something made in your own country.

Expecting anime to be priced the same or even lower the american releases of tv shows/cartoons, is selfish and unrealistic.

In my short eight years of living on my own I've learned a simple fact. The less money you make, the less you're entitled to spend. If you think things are too expensive, or you simply don't have enough money to buy what you want. Get a better job. Get a better education. If you don't do these things, you can't complain about prices. I realize there are many here who are in school, and live with their parents. You of all people have no right to complain about anime prices. People need to learn to live within their means.

[Mr. Nice]

Expecting anime to be priced the same or even lower the american releases of tv shows/cartoons, is selfish and unrealistic.Since I'm the first person who made the comparison, but only after someone else made a more spurious comparison to "prove" that anime dvd's weren't expensive compared to other dvd releases, I will point out that this was thesentiment I expressed in my last paragraph. Pointing out that anime is expensive by comparison, isn't the same thing as expressing an expectation that anime should be cheaper then it is.

[Spadesy]

Anime is something of a foreign art form, and as such, I'm appreciative of watching it.

Same idea with music. I admit, I do burn some music, but for the most part, I pay for it regardless of the fact that I can easily burn any song simply as appreciation to the band for what they produced. Likewise with anime.

[Laharu]

I think anime is way too expensive in America. I mean you get the DVD for a series, and it only really contains 2 or 3 episodes out of the usually large amount of total episodes in the series. Each DVD costs about $20, so to see just 15 episodes, it costs you $100. And there aren't THAT many anime that have 15 episodes or fewer. It's a madhouse, and I guess it might be ok to blame those who download it and stuff, but I guess I couldn't really tell you who is to blame.

[MadWolfZX]

I generally rent my anime from Netflix. Besides, I can not usually stand to watch anything twice -- just my preference. However, if a series is really good, I may copy it and show to a friend in hopes of getting them to like anime. I know, shame on me, but it's not worth it to me to buy something I have no real interest in seeing again. Nor am I willing to buy something for someone else in hopes of letting them try anime. I do think those new Anime Legend sets are finally a fair price, however. I think it was like $33 for the complete Escaflowne series in Best Buy. I might even consider buying a series instead of renting at prices like that.

-Chris

[sfried]

I don't necessarily think that it is because anime fans aren't frugal. I think a part of it is what's know as sticker-shock; to take birdcat's example, you look at mainstream types of DVD releases, and pulling a page from Mr. Nice's notes, compare the per episode or runtimes to the prices. In raw dollars, the price is higher; however, given the added costs of production and projected sales, it's not exactly, in my opinion, more expensive.

Despite that, I'm picky with what I buy simply because of my tastes in anime. You can wait for the thin-pak, ultra-economy boxes, pick up stuff from the 80% off sales, or trade/buy used from friends all you want, the point is, it will probably end up costing you something in the end...

I certainly agree that anime doesn't have to be expensive, but if there are tons of titles that one likes to watch over and over again, it can get expensive. How much one spends on anime isn't only dependent on where one shops, but it is also dependent on how much control one has over their desire to spend.
Actually, there are tons of other reasons I forgot to mention, including the whole "sheeping theory": If everybody else has watched it, so must you. This is one of the things than can lead a fan to buy a well-known and pretty good anime, only to find its appeal wear off soon after, or find that it's not quite up to their taste.

A perfect example is Azumanga Daioh. It's influential, and most often times, people will figure that if they have it, it is a good sign of maintaining their anime fanhood. But once all the hype surrounding the series and its characters have come and gone, nothings left but a novelty show, unless of course, you wouldn't mind rewatching it again every month. (Believe me, becomes I'm one of it's first victims. Not that I didn't like the show, but it does have it's share of problems). Perhaps the same can be said of FLCL, only I like (as in like it enough to be watched and enjoyed again and again) much more that the former "general series."

Oh, and another tip: Sticking to OAVs tends to be better for the most part, with an exception to OAVs adapted from a TV series. Original OAVs (Macross Plus, for example) tend to be good.

[White hell]

Frrom what I see anime DVD's run you more, but it beats japan's prices.

[Mr. Nice]

Frrom what I see anime DVD's run you more, but it beats japan's prices.Hah, ain't that the truth? Doesn't stop me owning a handful of R2J titles though...

Oh, and another tip: Sticking to OAVs tends to be better for the most part, with an exception to OAVs adapted from a TV series. Original OAVs (Macross Plus, for example) tend to be good.Yes, but sadly OAV's outside of spinoffs (and Hentai ;)) pretty much died out in the late 90's, although argueably it led to the growth of 13 ep tv series.

[Suiko Eiji]

Actually, there are tons of other reasons I forgot to mention, including the whole "sheeping theory": If everybody else has watched it, so must you. This is one of the things than can lead a fan to buy a well-known and pretty good anime, only to find its appeal wear off soon after, or find that it's not quite up to their taste.

I can conceed that this may play a factor. I can't necessarily say that it's effected my personal collection; however, it is plausible enough to see this happen to quite a few folks. There've been a number of titles that people have recommended - and many are the "everyone else has watched it" types - but only a handful have made it into my collection based upon how much I liked it and if I felt it was worth the price of getting it.

[Keldran]

Anime is overpriced, but only for the largest consumers of it -- teens and preteens. It's reasonable for people that actually have jobs compared to other "hobbies" (spending $30 on drinks at a club for instance).

[fujyoshi]

anime is not really expensive especailly after hearing the prices in Japan O_o then again sometimes it really is and makes you go "man that's alot 'a monkey 0_0" You'll buy it though and then at the end 'a the day you see it was worth it ^_^

[Mr. sickVisionz]

In my short eight years of living on my own I've learned a simple fact. The less money you make, the less you're entitled to spend. If you think things are too expensive, or you simply don't have enough money to buy what you want. Get a better job. Get a better education. If you don't do these things, you can't complain about prices. I realize there are many here who are in school, and live with their parents. You of all people have no right to complain about anime prices. People need to learn to live within their means.

So in your words, anime isn't priced higher than it should be... we're all just poor and stupid?

[Crawlspace]

So in your words, anime isn't priced higher than it should be... we're all just poor and stupid?
And that's basically the truth. Anime is priced pretty cheaply, considering the only profit the company makes is off dvd sales. Rarely are there profits from television or merchandise to offset licensing and production costs of a title. Has anyone here even attempted to figure out the basic cost of producing one 24/26 episode series? Each episode will run approximately $25,000 to release on the low end. Each disc will bring in $15 - $17 after the store takes its cut, if I'm remembering correctly. An average series will run seven discs.

* Full seven disc set - will bring in ~$110
* Full 24 episode series to produce - ~$600,000

So each disc needs to push at 6000 units just for them to break even. Doesn't sound like much, but considering how niche anime is in general, this doesn't always happen. Sometimes BB can't even get rid of the five copies of a title it has on the shelf.

Before anyone says it, merchandise doesn't fair much better. Add in that it cost money to get the license to produce it, and it could wind up another money pit. But anime is a luxury item, and you're going to pay for that. If you know how to shop, you won't be paying all that much. And, yes, living on a budget sucks. I do this and don't resent the R1 companies at all. They do need to make money, after all.

[Chousho]

* Full seven disc set - will bring in ~$110
* Full 24 episode series to produce - ~$600,000

Not only the license and rights, but translators, packaging, editors, people who give water to the voice actors, the list goes on of people that help in one way or another. Of course not all of that particular cost is paid by one lone series, but still.

However, saying people are too poor and stupid to buy anime really isn't a good argument. Where I live many people abuse the welfare system. Along with this, they do not seem to be the sharpest tools in the shed. But with the power of my tax money, they can afford stuff even I can't.

There used to be a phrase called the "working poor", but I myself would say if you can't afford a job to buy at least a couple anime a month (as in from money left over) then just look for a better job.

As far as talking about students living at home not being able to pay for this stuff. Where the frick are you coming up with that? That's most likely one of the best places to be. You have a source of income (misc job), plus scholarship money (or grant/loan if you're stupid), plus you don't have to pay for rent. Definitely not hurting there.

[Crawlspace]

However, saying people are too poor and stupid to buy anime really isn't a good argument.

I don't think they're too stupid to buy anime, per say. I just think a lot of people are too stupid to buy it for a decent price. Otherwise, so many people wouldn't be shopping at FYE when titles aren't on sale. Too poor, though, is valid. At least to a point. When you only have $20 to spend on entertainment, and you're looking at a $25 Geneon disc, the average reaction is going to be "this costs way too much" regardless of what it is. They don't think about the costs behind it, or that the company putting it out is barely making back what they spent on production. And then you've got the folks who can't seem to understand that something like the Godfather movies had made their money back several times over just through theatrical releases by the time the dvds were released to a much larger audience than anime will ever see in this country, making the dvds pure profit, and that anime is only making money off dvd sales. This falls under ignorance, and they don't want to be told any differently. They're just going to stubbornly stand by their position that anime is too expensive and that the R1 companies are ripping them off. So, yeah, stupid and poor do play a part in people's reasoning.

[CMC]

I've only read one page back, but I completely agree with birdcat and Crawlspace.

Also I'd like to remind some people that what you get now is a much better deal than what we got when it was mostly VHS sales. Now I have found the average single anime DVD price to be in the $20-30 dollar range, with that you typically get 3-5 episodes, multiple audio and subtitle tracks, various extras and of course great image and sound quality that will last and last. And when you compare that to what it was like with VHS, typically costing on average the same $20-30 dollars as DVDs do today, but you had to then choose if you wanted the dubbed or subbed tape, and guess what, the subbed tape typically costed $5-10 dollars more than the dubbed tape. You got any where between 2-4 episodes on a tape, typically 2, no extras except maybe previews and do I even have to mention the image and sound quality, that didn't last and last? Should I even bring up how much easier it's gotten to go out and buy anime?

In no way are current anime DVDs too expensive.

[loplop]

. . . . It's a madhouse, and I guess it might be ok to blame those who download it and stuff, but I guess I couldn't really tell you who is to blame.
No, it's not OK to blame downloaders for what you think are high DVD prices. Downloaders tend to drive many of the series that do get licensed because the is a built in demand for many of these series when they appear on R1. I know for myself, I have bought more anime since I started bittorrenting anime and eroge a couple of years ago because I know just what I'm buying.

As far as the price goes, if you shop around, there are plenty of places to buy anime for less than MSRP. I buy everything from either here or rightstuf, and normally at much cheaper than suggested prices. If you want to talk expensive, start buying R2 disks from Japan. . . . .