Coordinators & Naturals

[MikeyRan]

Not sure if thier already was a thread like this or not, but i'm just wondering if people had the options like they did in SEED to become Coordinators or keep being Naturals, which one would everyone pick? Would some people end up being totally against the alterations, and become a blue cosmos or would everyone except thats its each persons choice? the thought just came to me last night when i was watching MSG for some reason.

[CrossboneGundam]

That's what the "search" option at the top of the page is for.

Newtype>All.

[Soluzar]

I've never really been quite sure what the abilities of a Coordinator are... the prior knowledge I had of newtypes has blurred my understanding. They aren't the same as newtypes, but what exactly is different? I believe it's mostly the telepathy thing - coordinators can't do that, right?

[Magami No ER]

Coordinators are always enhanced artifially from regular people, even if they are "homage" Newtypes.(think genetic engieering of the possible future, with a map of the Human Geonome and each person's chromosomes at scientists' figertips).
They're supposed(har, some don't show it v.v) to be smarter, stronger, and go into this SEED mode(which I myself go "eh?" for what it actually does.) Like a hyper mode that lets them modify the G.u.d.a.m's computer to suite themselves better, use the weapons faster, that sort of thing.
Perhaps someone can elborate better, as I never did see all of Seed...
Newtypes...come'on Biscuit, I'm sure watching a few scenes from the end of Gundam or Zeta will jog your memory.^^;

[Vaikyuko]

^Magami-chan got most of it. SEED Mode appears to be a hypersensitive mode, if you will, where all the senses are heightened to that of nigh-superhuman (beyond normal Coordinator standards). Some of them also show (although the circumstances of this are rather sketchy, as Mwu, Rau, Rey, and Kira all exhibited it at one point) the traditional Newtype "lightning bolt" effect when sensing one another. It's explained (in a sense) why Mwu, Rau, and Rey sense each other, but not Kira. Writing in CE sucks.

As for the actual topic at hand (the choosing of whether or not to be a Coordinator), I shall answer it from three points of view.

1) I would want to be a Coordinator, myself. I'd be superior. XD
2) Kira: Coordinators are those who want to advance themselves, regardless of self-sacrifice! [/omgisuck]
3) Djibril: I hate Coordinators. They suck. Cause...you know. They're better than us.

I think you can figure out what the POVs stances are from there. :P

[Soluzar]

Newtypes...come'on Biscuit, I'm sure watching a few scenes from the end of Gundam or Zeta will jog your memory.^^;

I have no problems remembering what Newtypes can do. Just the coordinators. I remember the telepathic, empathic and precognitive moments that both MSG and Zeta had quite well - the only part that's blurry is what coordinators do, and what the hell SEED mode ever was. Since you don't seem to understand SEED mode either, then I don't feel too bad about that.

[RyoTD]

Meh, I'm not sure I got that, either. I'm going to rewatch SEED soon, though, so maybe I'll get it this time.

As for the topic itself, I'd prefer to become a coordinator instead of staying as a natural. 'Cause that could lead to potential angst.

[HitokiriShadow]

I have no problems remembering what Newtypes can do. Just the coordinators. I remember the telepathic, empathic and precognitive moments that both MSG and Zeta had quite well - the only part that's blurry is what coordinators do, and what the hell SEED mode ever was. Since you don't seem to understand SEED mode either, then I don't feel too bad about that.

I don't think it ever quite states what SEED mode/Berserk mode does, but it's pretty clear about Coordinators. If you're genes where manipulated to give you specific attributes, then you are a coordinator. It seems that all coordinators are given a boost in their mental processing abilities and that is what enabled them to pilot mobile suits easily while naturals had a very difficult time at first.

[MightyDustLoop]

Yeah. I don't think Coordinators possess any precognitive abilities on the whole. It's purely about altering genetics in an artificial birth. It would provide for control over physical features as well as prevent diseases, etc.

As for abilities, I'm sure they possess increased innate talent to a certain extent, like maxed out mental processing and reflexes and so forth. The whole mobile suit piloting probably has something to do with the way Coordinators are engineered to think. And since Coordinators functions are probably similar to the whole Newtype "operate machinery in outer space" thing, it only makes sense that their experience with machinery would cross over to mobile suits.

[CrossboneGundam]

I have no problems remembering what Newtypes can do. Just the coordinators. I remember the telepathic, empathic and precognitive moments that both MSG and Zeta had quite well - the only part that's blurry is what coordinators do, and what the hell SEED mode ever was. Since you don't seem to understand SEED mode either, then I don't feel too bad about that.

Coordinators can turn into super computer geeks. That's basically it. They have no supernatural powers like Newtypes.

[Soluzar]

Coordinators can turn into super computer geeks. That's basically it. They have no supernatural powers like Newtypes.

The part about modifying the OS of the onboard computer always smelled fishy to me. That's kind of when believability became a major issue.

Yeah. I don't think Coordinators possess any precognitive abilities on the whole.
I was never quite sure. Nobody mentioned precognition, but then again, nobody really mentioned newtype powers that much in MSG until Amuro burned out the Gundam's reflexes. Even after that, it was only when Amuro encountered Lalah that we really knew what sort of things a NewType could do.

I don't think it ever quite states what SEED mode/Berserk mode does, but it's pretty clear about Coordinators. If you're genes where manipulated to give you specific attributes, then you are a coordinator. It seems that all coordinators are given a boost in their mental processing abilities and that is what enabled them to pilot mobile suits easily while naturals had a very difficult time at first.
What got me to thinking was that in Zeta, and beyond, you have the cyber-newtypes. I wondered for a long while if coordinators might actually turn out to have the full range of newtype abilities,like Four Murasame. If I recall correctly she was the result of an experiment rather like the Coordinator modifications in SEED.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

The part about modifying the OS of the onboard computer always smelled fishy to me. That's kind of when believability became a major issue.


It's piss easy when they program it all in BASIC

Oh, and Soluzar , I need a cash loan. Alimony.

[kureshii]

It's pretty obvious that SEED is some sort of berserker mode; it's the one thing SEED tried that UC didn't have (thank God UC didn't; don't need a bunch of stoned pilots fighting, do we?).

So far the one characteristic that all Coordinators seem to have is increased response time, alertness, strength etc. Like enhanced humans. The NT abilities like precognitive sensing, telepathy etc don't seem to apply across the board.

And I don't think all Coordinators are super comp geeks, just Kira. A result of him being the UC, and him being in computer class. I suppose if you're l33t enough you could re-program an OS on the fly, but while it's being used? No way. Try re-writing Linux while it's running on your computer.

@Soluzar: I thought NTs were first identified, then experimented upon? Don't remember any of the aforementioned NTs actually being "made from scratch".

[Soluzar]

@Soluzar: I thought NTs were first identified, then experimented upon? Don't remember any of the aforementioned NTs actually being "made from scratch".

Four was already a Newtype before they experimented, huh? So the experiment was to make her a stronger Newtype?

[NGT]

I think Seed mode is explained in one of the recap episodes but heres what it says in the littles booklet thing that come with the dvds.

Superior Evolutionary Element Destined-factor(SEED factor) A factor that determines the course of a species' evolution. The exsistance of the SEED factor has yet to be proven, and it remains a subject of intense controversy in scientific circles. But in theory, those who possess the SEED factor have the abillity to advance to the next stage of human evolution-an ability unrelated to whether the carrier is a natural or a Coordinator.

[Soluzar]

Superior Evolutionary Element Destined-factor(SEED factor) A factor that determines the course of a species' evolution. The exsistance of the SEED factor has yet to be proven, and it remains a subject of intense controversy in scientific circles. But in theory, those who possess the SEED factor have the abillity to advance to the next stage of human evolution-an ability unrelated to whether the carrier is a natural or a Coordinator.

You realise of course that this says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? I mean, it's effectively sense-free random noise. That's my biggest problem with Gundam SEED. If you just say "it's magic" then I can deal with that, but when you pretend it is science, you need to do better than that.

I'm not directing any of that at you, of course. Just at the writers.

[NGT]

Yeah I didn't make that up it was a direct quote from one of the inserts. It does vaguely explain that because they are next evolution of the human race when they go into SEED mode they have increased reaction abillities.But it does seem like they kind of threw it in there to have something cool.

[kureshii]

@Soluzar: Yeah, I think Four was already a NT before they experimented. Can anyone confirm/disprove this?

Superior Evolutionary Element Destined-factor(SEED factor) A factor that determines the course of a species' evolution. The exsistance of the SEED factor has yet to be proven, and it remains a subject of intense controversy in scientific circles. But in theory, those who possess the SEED factor have the abillity to advance to the next stage of human evolution-an ability unrelated to whether the carrier is a natural or a Coordinator.Whoa, I really don't know where to start...

A factor that determines the course of a species evolution: Ok, one of the many already coded for by our DNA; I can accept that. But what makes this factor so special?

The exsistance of the SEED factor has yet to be proven, and it remains a subject of intense controversy...: Good excuse to refuse to elaborate any further.

those who possess the SEED factor have the abillity to advance to the next stage of human evolution:What stage would that be? And likewise, what ability?

In other words, at the next stage, what would they be able to do? What would they be? And how would they get there? The show writers have to do better than that before SEED even goes anywhere near the likes of X and UC.

I understand that SEED was probably meant to be a dough-spinner for other future projects, but are they in such dire circumstances that they can't hire writers to create a more coherent CE world?

[Char Aznable]

Ide rather be the Evolution of humanity then a test tube freak baby... if not the former ill stay as my badass self.

[Shao]

@Soluzar: Yeah, I think Four was already a NT before they experimented. Can anyone confirm/disprove this?

Whoa, I really don't know where to start...

A factor that determines the course of a species evolution: Ok, one of the many already coded for by our DNA; I can accept that. But what makes this factor so special?

The exsistance of the SEED factor has yet to be proven, and it remains a subject of intense controversy...: Good excuse to refuse to elaborate any further.

those who possess the SEED factor have the abillity to advance to the next stage of human evolution:What stage would that be? And likewise, what ability?

In other words, at the next stage, what would they be able to do? What would they be? And how would they get there? The show writers have to do better than that before SEED even goes anywhere near the likes of X and UC.

I understand that SEED was probably meant to be a dough-spinner for other future projects, but are they in such dire circumstances that they can't hire writers to create a more coherent CE world?


1# Would I be a Natural or a Coordinator ? I choose none of them. For Natural and Coordinator that aren't A or B class list characters, they are grunt and have grunt level of combat regardless of being a Natural or a Coordinator.

2# About the SEED mode thing, It is just some natural boost in performance in the right state of mind for same A list character. Nothing more nothing less! The explanation for the SEED factor( not the concept) is as usless as the most Natural can't pilot a Coordinator MS because of the OS.

3# I think that the problem isn't they can't hire a writers to create a more coherent CE world, it is when are they going to hire one and how long is this saga going to be till that happen.

[HitokiriShadow]

I understand that SEED was probably meant to be a dough-spinner for other future projects, but are they in such dire circumstances that they can't hire writers to create a more coherent CE world?

Did you see Gundam SEED Destiny? That should answer your question.

[Char Aznable]

1# Would I be a Natural or a Coordinator ? I choose none of them. For Natural and Coordinator that aren't A or B class list characters, they are grunt and have grunt level of combat regardless of being a Natural or a Coordinator.
.

Right because those 3 chicks in the Astrays were just grunts...and its not like the were significant or anything.

2# About the SEED mode thing, It is just some natural boost in performance in the right state of mind for same A list character. Nothing more nothing less! The explanation for the SEED factor( not the concept) is as usless as the most Natural can't pilot a Coordinator MS because of the OS.


So your relating Seed mode to turning super saiyan or somthing?
The Earth Forces (who really dont use coordinators... )making their secret weapons for pilots they dont have(or intend to have) makes perfect Tactical sense right?

3# I think that the problem isn't they can't hire a writers to create a more coherent CE world, it is when are they going to hire one and how long is this saga going to be till that happen

Maybe theyll do that when they come up some original Mobile suits... Like their Zaku Warriors and Dom Troopers.

Also please work on crossing your T's and Dotting your I's is somwaht difficult to understand your broken English.

[Shao]

So your relating Seed mode to turning super saiyan or somthing?


Some what in that way but yet different.

[MikeyRan]

i just actualy finished watching all fo Gundam Zeta, and i do actualy see why everyone things tis the best gundam ever, now i do wish i went into seeing it without reading how everyone thoguht it was the best gundam because i would have enjoyed it much more, but from watching it, it might not of had the best action and all that, but it DEFINATLY had the best character devoplopement thurout the entire show and the characters where so strong it absolutely made the show, and for a show from 1986 it looekd jsut as good if not better then wing from 1996, so it was all top notch thier, so i definatly see why everyone does love it so much. but thier definatly was parelles to seed and i do beleive in the next installment of seed thie will be able to win people over if they jsut do the show right :P
as for the topic i personaly would rather be a coordinator and use all my abilities to the max.

[kureshii]

Anyone who thinks Zeta's graphics suck obviously hasn't watched A New Translation yet.

I'm not usually facist about little things like grammar and spelling, but gawd, please edit your post again. there isn't a single sentence without spelling mistakes, it's almost painful to read.

[Demonboy]

there should be an auto spelling and grammer checker/corrector.

[Char Aznable]

there should be an auto spelling and grammer checker/corrector.


There are alot of things in the world that "Should Be"...

"Some what in that way but yet different.
'

And thanks for the clarification on that...

[Techrobo]

The practical part of me would love to be a coordinator, but the sentimental, human part of me would not. In anycase, I would not stand for descrimination against a people because of the decisions of their parents, but on the other hand I don't know if creating a 'superior race' is such a good idea. In truth, the whole matter is more trouble than its worth to me, and I hope genetic modification does not advance to such a point in my lifetime.
If you just say "it's magic" then I can deal with that, but when you pretend it is science, you need to do better than that.
Its much easier that way in the long run, but all science fiction suffers from this problem. When I'm writing I try to combine sci-fi/fantasy as much as I can, so I can legitimately use magic as a deus ex machina for all the little pitfalls my plots enter. With a serious, 'realistic' sci-fi like Gundam, such action is unnaceptable, and is one of the primary reasons I didn't enjoy certain elements of certain gundam series, both in the UC and several AUs.

[Gaizokubanou]

Aren't 2nd or 3rd generation coordinators neutered anyways?

[Magami No ER]

Neutered you say....
eh, why?

[Soluzar]

Its much easier that way in the long run, but all science fiction suffers from this problem. When I'm writing I try to combine sci-fi/fantasy as much as I can, so I can legitimately use magic as a deus ex machina for all the little pitfalls my plots enter. With a serious, 'realistic' sci-fi like Gundam, such action is unnaceptable, and is one of the primary reasons I didn't enjoy certain elements of certain gundam series, both in the UC and several AUs.

Yes, all Sci-Fi suffers from that problem to a greater or lesser extent, I don't deny that. I just feel that SEED suffers from the problem to a much greater extent than is usual. I've no problem with "magic" in a Sci-Fi anime, so long as it's called magic, and no attempt is made to explicate it. If you attempt to explicate it, it becomes pseudo-science, at which point it fails.

[Techrobo]

Yes, all Sci-Fi suffers from that problem to a greater or lesser extent, I don't deny that. I just feel that SEED suffers from the problem to a much greater extent than is usual. I've no problem with "magic" in a Sci-Fi anime, so long as it's called magic, and no attempt is made to explicate it. If you attempt to explicate it, it becomes pseudo-science, at which point it fails.
I agree that SEED does exhibit a more severe case of this than many other sci-fis - and compounded with the author's inability to effectively manage plot and characters at times it does ruin the 'reality' which has made me treasure the gundam franchise. Nevertheless, I do no think it is ever really possible to draw a line between real science and pseudo-science in science fiction anymore. Tackling this is akin to attempting to reconcile religion, philosophy, and science in our world. But what we have to remember is that science fiction is always in truth fiction before it is science, and thats the way it should be.

[HitokiriShadow]

Aren't 2nd or 3rd generation coordinators neutered anyways?

Uh, no. Where on earth did you get that idea?

[j_wong00]

Uh, no. Where on earth did you get that idea?

Most likely from the indication that the population of coordinators were dropping in the series.

I believe they said that the birth rate was dropping at an alarming rate. To the point where it threatened the population; especially with a war going on.

[Quattro Ninja]

Most likely from the indication that the population of coordinators were dropping in the series.

I believe they said that the birth rate was dropping at an alarming rate. To the point where it threatened the population; especially with a war going on.

Yep, I remember that too.

[CrossboneGundam]

Coordinator birth rates plummeting? Maybe this means there won't be any more seed... :naughty:

[HitokiriShadow]

That means they became infertile/impotent, but not neutered.

[Techrobo]

That means they became infertile/impotent, but not neutered.
Stop splitting hairs! Thats a cynic's job!

[HitokiriShadow]

Splitting hairs? There is a big difference between being infertile/impotent and being neutered. The former happens naturally and is not something anyone can control, the latter is actively disabling someone's reproductive capabilities (i.e. vasectomy or castration for men, tubes tied for women).

[Techrobo]

Splitting hairs? There is a big difference between being infertile/impotent and being neutered. The former happens naturally and is not something anyone can control, the latter is actively disabling someone's reproductive capabilities (i.e. vasectomy or castration for men, tubes tied for women).
True, but I believe they were using the term neutered simply to mean being unable to reproduce. As far as accepted colloquial language goes, such usage is entirely acceptable, and I have seen no evidence that these forums demand formal or scientific langauge. I got the idea when I read it, and didn't need to pursue it any further till I found someone to argue about it with. I'm supposed to be the cynic!

[Gundam01]

I'd like to be a Coordinator and in a few stories I've written my characters find they are Coordinators.

[Kali-chan]

I'm guessing that many characters would opt to be coordinators, with the exception of those psycomaniacs(*cough*Muruta Asrael*cough*) who hate coordinators. Although, as Kira in Seed said, coordinators aren't much differnt than naturals, he wouldn't want the whole world being coordinators just for the power. Sooooo... it depends what side they are on, and thier own personal views on coordinators/naturals, I know that I'd much rather be a natural than a superhuman(coordinators) because they really only have that enhanced strength, not much else. I don't know if I made sense, but that's my good ol' view on the coordinator/natural situation.

[Rydis]

One of the actual benefits of being a coordinator was their enhanced immune system which I didn't see anyone bring up. I think in a normal world, this is better then all their other abilities.

[Kali-chan]

^ that is true... but... I still prefer the natural abilities over enhanced strength... now if we expanded this to include... whatever it is that Muu and Kira are... that might have a few pluses