World of Warcraft

[Danju]

So I was invited into a 25-man raiding guild a few days ago after pugging the weekly raid on an alt, but I declined. Sure, I had my fun with 40-man raids back in the day and was in a "hardcore" 25-man raiding guild for Naxx, but...well, raiding 10-man content casually with my roommates and friends has just been loads more fun. The problem with raiding with 25 people is that you're bound to have people that don't like each other and people that annoy you. Which leads to raid drama, which leads to guild drama, which leads to people leaving, which leads to guilds falling apart. It just isn't worth the slightly better gear you can get.

Anyway, anyone else really enjoying Icecrown Citadel? The small event after the Deathbringer fight absolutely took my breath away...I can't wait to enter the second wing tomorrow! Here's hoping for more plot events and cutscenes.

Updated character sheets for anyone interested:
Valjodr, Prot Paladin (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Wyrmrest%20Accord&n=Valjodr)
Sherri, Assassination Rogue (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Wyrmrest+Accord&n=Sherri)
Linneya, Shadow Priest (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Wyrmrest+Accord&n=Linneya)
Shadari, Enhancement Shaman (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mok%27Nathal&n=Shadari)
Aeliandra, Arms Warrior (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Wyrmrest+Accord&n=Aeliandra)

[Rurouni Saiyan]

The team that I run with in my guild is stuck on the Deathbringer fight. Last night, we got him to 12% before everything went to hell. That fight itself is hell. I've done it on my shammy as both enhance and resto.

[Siendra]

Cleared the first wing on both 10 and 25. Subscriptions lapsed, though and classes are starting again ~

[Danju]

The team that I run with in my guild is stuck on the Deathbringer fight. Last night, we got him to 12% before everything went to hell. That fight itself is hell. I've done it on my shammy as both enhance and resto.
If you have a Prot Paladin as one of your tanks, I found out that improving Hammer of Justice makes the fight a breeze. It's one of the longest stuns in the game, and with it improved a tank can stun one of the worms every time they spawn. Doesn't sound like much, but most of the time the other worm (or one of the worms if you're doing 25) will be dead by the time the stun wears off. Really helpful.

[Sharp-kun]

As a tank I love Imp Hammer.

We've spent our two raids this thus far this week clearing ToGC and ICC 1st Wing. Next raid will be the new stuff which I'm looking forward to.

[l0k1]

So I was invited into a 25-man raiding guild a few days ago after pugging the weekly raid on an alt, but I declined. Sure, I had my fun with 40-man raids back in the day and was in a "hardcore" 25-man raiding guild for Naxx.

Meh 25/40 mans, I quit just before 3.3 came out but I used to clear TotGC each week on 10's and farm Uld Drakes.

10HM are the best thing Blizzard ever invented IMO.

Also, WoW is bad for you.

[Keroberos]

Does anyone know of any future endeavors to have World of Warcraft on a system instead of online or computer? I have always wanted to play the game but since I work on a computer all day long I am hoping one will come out for a gaming console so I can feel like I am not working. Thanks.

[Siendra]

No, I can't really see that happening. And the game just wouldn't work if it was offline. Too big, too empty, and too much content that you can't touch alone.

[old hat]

I think he means playing online using a console and something like X-Box Live or Playstation Network.

[Danju]

I think he means playing online using a console and something like X-Box Live or Playstation Network.
Which still wouldn't really work and will probably never happen. The game is very addon dependent, too, as there are many of them that are considered mandatory for raiding. I kind of like the idea of multiple platforms for MMOs, and it seemed to work pretty well for FFXI, but it wouldn't support a game like WoW very well.

[old hat]

Addons are not required to play. Lots of people like addons but WoW is not dependent on them. It plays fine without any. Some guilds consider some mandatory for raiding but it's not as if the game won't run without them. It will run just fine. Something like Ventrilo would easily be implemented on a console as well. The PS3 already does it. People like Gatherer or Auctioneer but the game is hardly dependent on them.

The biggest problem I see initially would be managing the large number of abilities that mid-level WoW characters have using a console controller. Doing it without a keyboard and mouse could be very difficult. Designing the interface the interface to make it practical could be tricky.

[Danju]

Some guilds consider some mandatory for raiding but it's not as if the game won't run without them.
Wherein lies the problem. There are many mods, such as DBM, that many raiding guilds require for raiding. Sure, you can play the game without addons. That wasn't the point. If I were to use a comparison to illustrate the point, take Oblivion PC vs console. Yes, the game will run without mods. Yes, you can enjoy the game without mods. But to truly get the most out of the game and all it has to offer, you need to be able to use modifications.

I'm not sure what the PS3 did about Vent that you're referring to (as I don't own one myself) but yes, Vent will be a huge problem. Unless whichever console the game is released to has an application that allows you to connect to Ventrilo servers, it will be even more difficult to find a raiding guild.

Basically the issue is just that it's an ***-ton of work for both Blizzard and the other party (Sony, Microsoft, etc), and it's not realistic that they would do it. There would be little benefit in doing so.

[old hat]

You said it was dependent on addons not that certain people desire the use of addons. It's not the same thing at all. Whether using mods is necessary to truly 'get the most out of the game' is highly debatable. I played my first character from 1-60 when that was end cap quite fine without any. Now that raids are 10 or 25 man instead of 40 man like they were back then there is less need of addons than ever.

Vent is nothing more or less than a group voice chat. You can do voice chat on the PS3 and I'm pretty sure the X-Box can do it too. If it can use a mic and connect to the internet, it can do some equivalent of Vent. In technical terms, it would not be a problem at all.

What benefit there would be in doing so depends on many factors like how much it would actually cost to develop and how many additional customers it would capture in the console market that the PC version failed to bring in. Whether it is realistic or not depends on several variables most of which are unknown to us.

[Danju]

....
I guess what I'm trying to say is that addons and Vent are just too integrated into the WoW community. Blizzard itself highly supports addons and those that make it. For example, in a hotfix a few months ago one of the changes addressed was solely for the addon community. They added additional information in the combat log for damage absorbs, with Ghostcrawler stating the reason as to "allow third-party addons to figure out which absorb effect goes with which caster and properly credit them for it".

What I mostly meant by "dependent" was that your experience is very dependent on the use of addons. Like I said, many addons are considered mandatory and not using them will cause a whole ton of problems if you try to get into end-game content. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it's how it is. Blizzard has done an excellent job integrating some of the most popular addon functions into the default UI, but there's still just so much more. Recount, for example, is something that almost everybody has.

Yes, the 360 and PS3 have voice support, however if they cannot connect it to a Ventrilo server then it's not very helpful at all. I highly doubt an entire guild would switch to another source of voice communication simply because a few members of their guild play on a console.

Anyway, I don't mean to sound argumentative; this is really a silly thing to be arguing about.

[AsukaxSohryux]

Who in their right mind would want to play an MMORPG on a console to begin with?

[old hat]

keroberos up there for one though I'm not qualified to assess whether that poster is in his or her right mind or not.

[Keroberos]

I would hope I am in my right mind..... I was just thinking that with the advancement of online gaming on the consoles lately that a game like WoW would maybe consider moving into this area. I am in no way saying the game would be identical to what the current game is, the idea appeared when I saw Magic the Gathering game on the XBox. I used to enjoy the game and was hoping WoW, which I enjoy as well would come out on a console. The PS3 came out with Little Big Planet which allowed users to store information on servers and interact with applications that where housed on them. I just think it would be interesting to see another application of WoW other than PC. They could attract a new market of individuals which would expand the game. Just a thought.....

[Siendra]

Seeing as they're sitting at well above 13 million subscribers with 11 million or so active subscribers, I can't see there being much more room for expanding the market. Whatever audience that might be left untapped that could be wooed by console ports is probably too small to warrant the cost of producing the ports.

Plus the games old as is. More beneficial to bring a new game to console-only gamers.

[Sharp-kun]

The other thing is that it would almost certainly not do as well unless the console players have keyboard/mouse.

Even then, I expect that there would be a good overlap between the two playerbases.


In other news, another Molten Core, another lack of a binding from dear old Mr Geddon.

[old hat]

I ran Molten Core something like 20 times to get 1 piece of tier 1 gear. The Gloves of Prophecy were not worth all that hassle. Not. Even. Close. Being 1 of only 2 holy priests in the guild was a pain.

Can Death Knights tank or do they just think they can tank? Because they don't seem to be able to tank worth a crap.

[Siendra]

They can tank. It's just that most people running DK's are somewhere between "I'm surprised you can breath" and "You used the toilet by yourself! You're a big boy now!" on the great scale of intellect.

[Fobb]

5 year old necro

[Rahxephon91]

I'm playing a Death Night and its pretty easy to do. Though I've only done it ounce and I've never actually tanked before in the 5 years I've been on and off playing this game.

Though it seems most Dk tanks don't actually have an idea what moves they have that will actually create aggro. It seems to them its all Death Grips and nothing else.

Personally though I dislike when any class but a warrior is a tank. I also dislike anything but a Priest being a healer. This is why I hate Druids, though I have other reasons. I also hate Hunters, think everything is theirs.

[l0k1]

DK's are easy to tank with, but so is any class, all it takes is some reading up on proper rotations (repeat until you don't have to think about it), runic power management and the right spec and glyphs.

But you can say the same about healing and DPS, rotation rotation rotation, move out of fire.

Anyone that can't shouldn't play the game.

[Sharp-kun]

Can Death Knights tank or do they just think they can tank? Because they don't seem to be able to tank worth a crap.
They can, we have quite a good one I often tank alongside.

The problem is that 90% of DK's are called some variation of Arthass and that says it all.

[old hat]

They do a lot of the kind of stupid things that tanks of other classes don't do. Maybe because, at 60 or so, they haven't really been playing the character for all that long. They run ahead after I say that I'm out of mana. They go around corners out of los. They do all the stupid crap that newb tanks did in Wailing Caverns except that we're level 60-something in Outlands. They can't hold aggro very well either but most don't seem to be aware that they have an ability called dark command or other aggro generating abilities beyond death coil.

Maybe they aren't specced right but a lot of them seem to die with appalling sped for a supposed tanking character. Much faster than a warrior, paladin or druid would. I have to concentrate everything on keeping them up when I wouldn't have to with another class. My gear is pretty crappy but I am a raid specced holy priest. It takes a lot to make me burn through all my mana like that healing even with that annoying debuff that the tank always gets stuck with in mana tombs.

and getting a mage or druid to get rid of that damn curse is like pulling teeth but that's a separate subject.

[Jabberwock]

I've been curious about DK tanks myself. We have a silly little UH DK tag along with us that we use to OT if we need a third tank for achievement purposes, but I've never really seen a particularly competent one MT through a raid. Maybe it's just the buzz of the new class, but I assumed that most of the bad ones would have been weeded out a year after the fanfare.

Then again, there seem to be a near infinite number of awful warlocks being born every day and that class has been around since launch, so I guess I shouldn't be that surprised...

One quick aside.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that addons and Vent are just too integrated into the WoW community. Blizzard itself highly supports addons and those that make it. For example, in a hotfix a few months ago one of the changes addressed was solely for the addon community. They added additional information in the combat log for damage absorbs, with Ghostcrawler stating the reason as to "allow third-party addons to figure out which absorb effect goes with which caster and properly credit them for it".

What I mostly meant by "dependent" was that your experience is very dependent on the use of addons. Like I said, many addons are considered mandatory and not using them will cause a whole ton of problems if you try to get into end-game content. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it's how it is. Blizzard has done an excellent job integrating some of the most popular addon functions into the default UI, but there's still just so much more. Recount, for example, is something that almost everybody has.

Yes, the 360 and PS3 have voice support, however if they cannot connect it to a Ventrilo server then it's not very helpful at all. I highly doubt an entire guild would switch to another source of voice communication simply because a few members of their guild play on a console.

Anyway, I don't mean to sound argumentative; this is really a silly thing to be arguing about.

I know this comes a little late, but it's sad to think how dependent WoW players have become in terms of voice support and add-ons. In fact, it's a much maligned addiction if you ask me.

Certainly, anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all, but I'm actually quite glad to say that my group and I haven't run with any add-ons nor have used Vent since the launch of WotLK. And this is not a "ho ho, we're so awesome we don't need add-ons or vent" statement; if anything, it's a statement to say that both Vent and add-ons are a detriment to raiding and PVP.

What do raid leaders find themselves using Vent for more often than not? The same thing people install DBM or other like add-ons--to tell people how to do their jobs. "Move to the left", "Slime exploding", "Run from boss". All of these things can be broken down into a personal responsibility issue. And nevermind that most times Vent is used more as a social feature than a instrument to help w/ game mechanics.

So, if we were to talk about an MMO on a console, it would certainly have to have a communication system in order to explain fights and some such nonsense, but as to whether a console MMO NEEDS to integrate reliable, real-time voice support or the use of various add-ons, I'd have to disagree. All a good MMO needs is chat boxes and semi-intelligent people. Of course, since there is such a shortage of the latter, I can see the need for all the periphery features. :(

[Sharp-kun]

What do raid leaders find themselves using Vent for more often than not? The same thing people install DBM or other like add-ons--to tell people how to do their jobs. "Move to the left", "Slime exploding", "Run from boss".
No, Vent is so the tanks can have drunken rambles as we charge headlong into certain death and win.

Maybe it's just my guild (we're a fairly relaxed guild that all know each other from uni days/other things), but we end up using vent just as much for having a chat as we raid and for lulz. Something needs to keep people amused during Frostwing Halls trash.

[Siendra]

I wouldn't say I'm addicted to addons. There's the ones like Poisoner and Cartographer I an't live without due to the convenience, but as far as raid addons going it's pretty much just DBM. Even then I've left it off a handful of times and not noticed.

[Jabberwock]

No, Vent is so the tanks can have drunken rambles as we charge headlong into certain death and win.

Maybe it's just my guild (we're a fairly relaxed guild that all know each other from uni days/other things), but we end up using vent just as much for having a chat as we raid and for lulz. Something needs to keep people amused during Frostwing Halls trash.

Haha, yeah, there was once a time we used Vent a lot in TBC, Sharp...

...and then someone started singing Backstreet Boys.

Now, that wouldn't have been so bad, if everyone didn't start doing that.

So, the new guild rule is: "Vent is not required, so don't expect raid leaders to be in there w/ you bums." :P

[Old Ape Face]

Cataclysm starts tonight.

[Melion]

Might be at the midnight release with a friend of mine now that I'm in town for work.

[Jabberwock]

I'll definitely be in Azeroth later tonight to intimidate my underlings.

[Melion]

Aaaaaaand I bought it.

[Schadenfreude]

Good luck getting into any realms for the next week. Blackrock and Ner'Zhul have GOT to be brutal right now.

[Melion]

Good luck getting into any realms for the next week. Blackrock and Ner'Zhul have GOT to be brutal right now.

I don't plan to play until next week and I also got the trouble of having my account locked. I need to change my email address in order to prevent from being hacked again and that Blizzard opens my account but I can't remember my secret answer for my secret question. Any idea on how to retrive that?

[Siendra]

i have my copy already. God I wish I could play it. Releasing a game the week before exams is evil.

[Schadenfreude]

I stopped playing pretty much this time last year. I honestly don't think cataclysm will be enough to bring me back at this point.

[Melion]

The only reason I bought Cataclysm is that alot more of my friends wanna play now and that I wanna see how well it fares now.

I simply got too much time on my hands when I'm not working at the hotel.

[l0k1]

I simply got too much time on my hands when I'm not working at the hotel.

You should try completing some of those games you compulsively buy everyday.

[Old Ape Face]

You know for a game that's significantly easier to play since it's beginning, I think Blizzard has finally understood that fun quests are fun.

Sure it's not as serious as Vanilla in forcing you to work hard, but it's an interesting change for sure.

[Spike]

Some awesome moments in this game. My favorite so far is having a squid mind control thing on my head and then causing chaos not done by me but the being controlling me it was hilarious! Also the epic battle of Neptune was awesome.

[Rurouni Saiyan]

Just got my warrior to 85 today. This expansion so far has been nothing short of amazing. Azeroth is fun again. Its just too bad that much of it had to be ripped up by a pissed off dragon :(

[Old Ape Face]

Just got my warrior to 85 today. This expansion so far has been nothing short of amazing. Azeroth is fun again. Its just too bad that much of it had to be ripped up by a pissed off dragon :(

Blizzard actually did something enjoyable for Wow for once.

Incorporate a plot to elaborate the connection between all the quests.

Sure it's not a movie worthy epic, but the story actually goes somewhere as you progress in the early levels up to lvl 60, (then it's Burning Crusade stuff which I haven't seen any change in yet.)

Sure while it may be nothing short of Instance quests to get good gear leaving AH obsolete till lvl 85, the story and plot greatly make up for the slow adventure through Azeroth's time line.

[Schadenfreude]

It only took them upwards of a year of transitionary patches and hyping it to actually get Cataclysm out. After that much goddamn waiting it'd better be good.

[Old Ape Face]

Hey, this isn't like Starcraft 2 where we had to wait 10 years for a sequel that was only a little better than the original using the same format and only adding new units.

this is sort of a complete reversal for WoW sort of.

[Schadenfreude]

Yes, but it went through 2 other expansions and 3 years that may have changed gameplay but were absolutely bad in all other aspects of the word.

[Jabberwock]

Yes, but it went through 2 other expansions and 3 years that may have changed gameplay but were absolutely bad in all other aspects of the word.
Objection.

What aspect of the word "bad" did Blizzard not achieve in the past two expansions? Furthermore, what aspects of said word had they achieved?

I'm unsure about the definitive aspects of this bad you speak, but did they at least achieve rape bad?

[earsofdoom]

Objection.

What aspect of the word "bad" did Blizzard not achieve in the past two expansions? Furthermore, what aspects of said word had they achieved?

I'm unsure about the definitive aspects of this bad you speak, but did they at least achieve rape bad?

basically turning all the gameplay into faceroll, seriously healers had near infinite pools of mana due to regen gear and dps could dump threat way to easily. Also didn't help that blizzard would have tankadins one patch and dps pally's dureing another. I stopped playing due to the expansions dumbing the formula down so damn much making crowd control useless and everything a dps race.

[Old Ape Face]

basically turning all the gameplay into faceroll, seriously healers had near infinite pools of mana due to regen gear and dps could dump threat way to easily. Also didn't help that blizzard would have tankadins one patch and dps pally's dureing another. I stopped playing due to the expansions dumbing the formula down so damn much making crowd control useless and everything a dps race.

They have dumbed the the beginning parts of the game, but they also enhanced the Lore portion of said Beginning levels.

It seems Blizzard is no longer interested in the hours of game play required to get to the end game, and instead more interested in the actual role play of the game (making the game easier but still visually and dynamically appealing.) It now actually almost feels like another ordinary RPG.

The late game is actually just as hard as it's always been, and requires more hours of game play to get end game content.

[Schadenfreude]

All the lore in the world won't bring me back to what is probably one of the worst player bases in any online community the world over. I think it was WoW that turned me into a cynic.

[Seraphim]

^Amen to that brother.

[earsofdoom]

All the lore in the world won't bring me back to what is probably one of the worst player bases in any online community the world over. I think it was WoW that turned me into a cynic.

nothing quite like getting ready to do a big instance only to find out your healer is a shadow specced priest.

[Schadenfreude]

That was never a problem since I was the guild's first and foremost healer. The problem was always finding competent DPS. We had an amazing mage accounting for about 25% of the overall DPS which was unacceptable since it meant a lot of people weren't dragging their weight.

[Siendra]

Then your recruitment sucked. Recruit better players. And if you can't recruit players you can make better.