Battle of the Century, Heero Yuy Vs. Kira Yamato

[Hellmaster Inu]

Who do you think would win in an all out Gundam fight? Heero Yuy in the Wing Zero, having mastered the Zero System or Kira Yamato in the Freedom, in SEED Mode. It's obvious the Wing Zero and Freedom are probably two of the most powerful Gundams in the history of Gundam.

Note: I felt like making this poll for the fun of it. Don't say I'm being stupid. :naughty:

[seba_boi]

Heero cuz Kira's a pansy... :P :P :P

[MagicianCamille]

Heero Yuy in Wing Zero, the Twin Buster Rifle can destroy a colony, Freedom can't move and shoot all of it's cannons at once I believe, so if they both fires their best weapons(neither of them can move and use them at the same time), Heero's Twin Buster Rifle beam would clear through Kira's shots, and wipe the Freedom out. While Freedom's shots don't really have the power to damage the over-powered Wing Zero.

Unless Freedom CAN move and fire those cannons at the same time, in which case: Heero.

[Demonboy]

hmm, if Wing Zero scores a direct hit on Freedom then obviously Freedom is KO'd. But what happens if Wing Zero misses 3 times (or 6 times if heero split them) ? Its TBR would have no power left to be of any use. Freedom's guns on the other hand would last a long time considering Freedom's energy source. I think according to the TV series it would take A LOT of Freedom's cannons to actually damage Wing Zero, but according to Endless Waltz I think it wouldn't take too much damage.
After that I think it would just end with close range duelling with beam sabers, by that time I can't really imagine who will win because its fairly even at that point.

P.S you should add a 3rd option (something like "both dies" or "draw" or something)

[MagicianCamille]

Ugh no, I hate the "draw" option in these kind of polls, it's so indecisive, eventually one of them would be triumphant, and the idea of them both killing eachother is just...lame.

[CrossboneGundam]

Heero, the lesser of two evils.

[Mazinkaiser]

I always thought that the 3 shot rule only applied to the Wing Gundam, I heard somewhere that the Wing Zero had an infinite amount of shots. If I'm wrong, and the Wing Zero only has 3 shots, then I'd have to say that Kira'd win, otherwise Heero'd win.

[Sharp-kun]

I'm pretty sure the twin buster rifle was fired more than 3 times in one battle, in dual fire mode.

[Omega Supreme]

Actually I say Heero, the greater of two evils. Kira maybe annoying, he is atleast a humman being with emotions. Remember they both pull the "I don't want to kill anymore" card.

[Westlo]

The 3 shot limit is at full power

Anyway Kira will win because Kazuma beat Ryuhou in ep 26 of Scryed

[Blaat]

I would say Kira in SEED mode, don't forget SEED mode is something like being in a Super Saiya-jin or Super Mode form. Zero System don't even come close in power.

When we compare suits well both are incredibly overpowered and nothing seems able to destroy them. Wing Zero Gundam maybe able to destroy a colony but Freedom can shoot 5 guns at the same time. So I guess they're even in that department.

[Musashi9X]

Well comparing pilots, Heero and ZERO system is probably a fair match for Kira with his SEED Factor, though on raw piloting ability alone I would give it to Heero, so advantage Heero.
Comparing machines, Freedom is formidable, but Wing Gundam Zero is practically godlike. It basically comes down to speed and construction. I'd give the speed advantage to Wing Zero, simply because if Tallgeese has heart exploding acceleration, lord only knows what Wing Zero is like, and Kira never had any problems with Freedom. And then Wing Zero has the wonderalloy Gundanium, with a heat tolerance so high it can shrug off barrages of weak beam rifle fire and use a shield made of it that can block beam saber hits. Freedom just has Phase Shift armor, so one well placed beam saber or TBR shot and that's pretty much all she wrote for Kira. Advantage Wing Gundam Zero.
Basically the only way I could see Kira winning was if Heero just stood there and let Kira wail on him for a good 5 minutes at least.

It's obvious the Wing Zero and Freedom are probably two of the most powerful Gundams in the history of Gundam.
And either V2, God, or Turn A could probably just fart and beat both of them. ;)

[Demonboy]

Chances are, the TBR will not be a diciding factor guys bear in mind. It is more than likely that Kira can dodge those, the same with Kira's beam cannons. (Heero rarely uses his TBR in a duel with a skilled pilot like himself, same with Kira rarely uses his cannons against another skilled pilot in a duel.)

But in general I don't really see this as a reasonable comparison in terms of technology because of the inconsistency in Wing's universe. If you watch GW:EW you will see that the Wing Zero isn't that imprevious to damage, but watch the TV series and it makes all the weapons fired on it look like pea shooters which do no harm.

Wing Zero made be made of Gundanium but it can still sustain damage from beam sabers (like in EW) which will probably be the main weapons of choice for both suits if it comes down to a duel.

[Hellmaster Inu]

And either V2, God, or Turn A could probably just fart and beat both of them. ;)

I'm sure the V2 for the Freedom could. :P I've never seen the God or Turn A in action, so I can't respond on them. :( I bet the God Gundam is pretty kickass though. ^_^ Soon I will own the G Gundam boxsets!

[Westlo]

Don't forget good ol Devil Gundam

[Hellmaster Inu]

Don't forget good ol Devil Gundam

:doh: Him too.... and let's not forget from After War Gundam-X, though I haven't actually watched the series. I heard the Gundam in that series can blow up a colony.

[Westlo]

Yes it's satellite cannon is much stronger than the TBR

[Musashi9X]

But in general I don't really see this as a reasonable comparison in terms of technology because of the inconsistency in Wing's universe. If you watch GW:EW you will see that the Wing Zero isn't that imprevious to damage, but watch the TV series and it makes all the weapons fired on it look like pea shooters which do no harm.
Well considering that most of the damage Wing Zero took was from Altron's Beam Trident or from its own reactor overheating, there's really not a lot of evidence you can point out about its ability to shrug off beam fire or not.

Wing Zero made be made of Gundanium but it can still sustain damage from beam sabers (like in EW) which will probably be the main weapons of choice for both suits if it comes down to a duel.
Based on what I've seen on how beam sabers cut through Gundanium, cutting through Wing Zero's armor would be like trying to cut through a cold brick of chocolate, unless you can cut it in a place where it isn't armored, like the joints. The fact that Wing Zero's Gundanium shield resists being cut by beam sabers should be enough evidence of this. In the case of Freedom though, cutting through its armor with a beam saber should be like "a hot knife through butter."

Don't forget good ol Devil Gundam
Only love can defeat Devil Gundam! :thumbsup:

[BrendantheJedi]

I say Heero with the Zero System since the Zero System can the pilot near Newtype ablities. Kira doesn't have that advantage.

[Hellmaster Inu]

I say Heero with the Zero System since the Zero System can the pilot near Newtype ablities. Kira doesn't have that advantage.

Is that so? I think Kira in SEED mode would most definetly overpower most Newtypes, unless something happens where somehow the Freedom's controls won't respond, like Camille did to Scirocco in Zeta Gundam.

[C_U_P]

Is that so? I think Kira in SEED mode would most definetly overpower most Newtypes, unless something happens where somehow the Freedom's controls won't respond, like Camille did to Scirocco in Zeta Gundam.NO WAY. Seed mode does not even match a Newtype's abilities. Heck, Seed mode is not some magic powerup, it's jut a visual metaphor for people surpassing their normal limits. Remember, Newtypes can predict moves, Seeders can not.


And even Shining Gundam could kill them both. Not to mention Gundam Spiegal or the dreaded Nobel Gundam. Come to think of it, Nobel Gundam probably could beat them both.....fancy that. ^_^ Go Allenby.

[Sushikins]

Id vote Kira, because I can see the Freedom dodging the TBR. Its still not a fair comaprison, because of the centurys and because of the already mentioned God like Gundanium alloy, maybe it would be more interesting if the Freedom had it too. Either way, id take the Freedom over Zero because the HiMAT mode looks more useful in massive MS combat than the TBR, which seems more suited for blowing up colonies and other fortresses

[Boyforever]

This thread is the same as another thread I found in another forum. So by the likes of this thread I'd already made my decision a while back.

I diffinately go with Kira, SEED MODE all the way and forever. If anyone wants a reason than I'll give them what I already said before, if not that's cool.

[Levon]

Kira gets my vote, since Heero would self destruct before the battle even starts-_-;

[MagicianCamille]

Let it be noted that even though I voted Heero, I prefer Kira's character.

[Hellmaster Inu]

I prefer Kira's character.

And may hobgoblins hack away at your body and eat your insides for whomever actually doesn't think that way. I know I think Kira is a much better character than Heero.

[Boyforever]

If Kira and Hero were actually to fight head on using their Gundams, wouldn't they have to be in the same world/dimension. So that means that their Gundams would be made of the same material. The things that might be different are the Gundams ability, powers, and technology.

[Musashi9X]

If Kira and Hero were actually to fight head using their Gundams, wouldn't they have to be in the same world/dimension. So that means that their Gundams would be made of the same material. The things that might be different are the Gundams ability, powers, and technology.
Wow, that argument makes absolutely no sense. RX-78-2, Gundam Mark II, and Gundam F91 are all from the same universe too but they're all made of different materials. (Luna Titanium/Gundarium Alpha, Titanium Alloy, and Gundarium and Ceramic Composite) :rolleyes:

[Boyforever]

Wow, that argument makes absolutely no sense. RX-78-2, Gundam Mark II, and Gundam F91 are all from the same universe too but they're all made of different materials. (Luna Titanium/Gundarium Alpha, Titanium Alloy, and Gundarium and Ceramic Composite) :rolleyes:

I'm saying that Freedom is a high class(top of the line) gundam as well as Hero's Gundam. So the same material could be found throughout the world that they are fighting in. That would mean that Hero's Gundam and Freedom would be made of the same armored material. Oh yeah, if they aren't in the same world/time then there is no use comparing the Gundams because there is no battle, it would make better sense comparing the pilots.

And if we're only comparing pilots then Kira is more supirior than Hero because he is a coordinator. All I have to say is coordinator.
Hero = normal human;
Kira = coordinator;

Unlike Gundam Wing where all the top Gundams depend mainly on their power and armored material. Gundam Seed makes all the the Gundams equally in armored and almost equal in power. Gundam Seed focus on the aspect of the polits skills. Even the most skillful polit politing a regular Gundam can beat a top of the line Gundam. A Gundam with a strong armor doesn't mean it's unbreakable. Every material will break eventually.

[Westlo]

And even Shining Gundam could kill them both. Not to mention Gundam Spiegal or the dreaded Nobel Gundam. Come to think of it, Nobel Gundam probably could beat them both.....fancy that. ^_^ Go Allenby.

Like duh

G Gundam is super robot while the rest of gundam isn't of course the good g gundam mechs will trash the rest cept for TAG.

[MavsWorld]

Gundam Wing and Seed/Seed Destiny are all same universe, Wing is after though. I think Kira would win as I think he is a better pilot and it would end up as a beam saber battle. The results atm are tied 9/9 so it seems a pretty even contest.

[Musashi9X]

I'm saying that Freedom is a high class(top of the line) gundam as well as Hero's Gundam. So the same material could be found throughout the world that they are fighting in. That would mean that Hero's Gundam and Freedom would be made of the same material.
No it doesn't. Gundam Mark II is a high class MS with excellent acceleration and a moveable frame, but its armor is no better than a Hizack's. Gelgoog was one of the very best MS Zeon put out, with performance on par to Gundam's but its armor is either high tensile steel or a titanium alloy, far weaker than Gundam's Luna Titanium. You can't just assume that just because it's made in X universe and high performance that it's going to be made with the very best materials. The designers of Wing Zero knew how to construct Gundanium, but OZ didn't. Who's to assume that in this universe ZAFT is going to know as well?


Oh yeah, if they aren't in the same world/time then there is no use comparing the Gundams, only the pilots.
My, backpedaling, are we.

And if where only comparing pilots then Kira is more supirior than Hero because he is a coordinator. All I have to say is coordinator.
Hero = normal human;
Kira = coordinator;
First of all being a coordinator only means you are free of genetic ailments and have all the best genes. It does not automatically make you a better pilot. That's like me saying that the son of two world class skaters is going to perform better than a trained one with absolutely nothing else to base it on. Heero has trained his entire life to be a pilot, and need I remind you that Mu La Flaga shot down many a coordinator despite being a natural. Let's also not forget Phantom Pain or the original trio, all naturals.

BTW "more superior" is redundant.

[Demonboy]

Gundam Wing and Seed/Seed Destiny are all same universe, Wing is after though. I think Kira would win as I think he is a better pilot and it would end up as a beam saber battle. The results atm are tied 9/9 so it seems a pretty even contest.

exactly my point...agreed

[Westlo]

Heero has trained his entire life to be a pilot, and need I remind you that Mu La Flaga shot down many a coordinator despite being a natural. Let's also not forget Phantom Pain or the original trio, all naturals.

While we are on the let's not forget lecturing path let's not forget Mu is a newtype and that those EA pilots you mentioned are extended whose skills are on par with elite ZAFT pilots.

[Musashi9X]

While we are on the let's not forget lecturing path let's not forget Mu is a newtype and that those EA pilots you mentioned are extended whose skills are on par with elite ZAFT pilots.
Meaning that it's possible for Naturals to perform just as well Coordinators. This negates my original counterargument that coordinator doesn't automatically mean better pilot how? (Taking into account ZERO System, of course)

[Westlo]

As far as I'm concernced the Extended are only Naturals if the Coordinators are as well.... And Mu's a newtype he's an exception look at how much Raww stood above the rest of ZAFT as a newtype coordinator. What was it he had something like 47 kills in one battle as a ZAFT elite which got him the Order of Nebula and promotion to Commander.

[Sushikins]

Taking down 5 GINNs in a MA seems harder than taking down 47 Moebius in a GINN, at least in my opnion, i wouldnt know, Ive never done that

[Demonboy]

Taking down 5 GINNs in a MA seems harder than taking down 47 Moebius in a GINN, at least in my opnion, i wouldnt know, Ive never done that

i dont really think a lot of people would know ^_^

[Sushikins]

I know, but in truth, it all depends on the situation, if Rau was alone, that would be extremly skilled, if not, who knows, the situation with Mwu is pretty well known, I just dont see taking down so many Moebius as being such a big deal, one of the weakest cannon fodder ive ever seen. (Not saying neither of them are skilled, but this is Kira vs. Heero, not Rau vs. Mwu, we already know how that turned out, so ill rest it there)

[Musashi9X]

For that matter Rau is never even stated to be a Coordinator. Ever. Seriously, go look at his profile on GundamOfficial, it has a "?" for his genetic type, because he was a clone of Al Da Flaga, who was a natural.

A coordinator is only a coordinator because of genetic manipulation prior to birth. Any other factor that affects you afterwards has nothing to do with the fact that you're a coordinator, be it training, performance enhancing drugs, psychological treatment and therapy, advanced computer systems, or Newtype abilities (Of which there is currently no substantial evidence that it is a genetic factor, and it certainly isn't the case in any other Gundam.) Nature versus nurture, ultimately.

[Demonboy]

Hey the scores are level at 9-9, seems to me that its even more of a close decision.

[Boyforever]

All you guys are basing your points on opinions so no one is right. If you want your points to count you should put as much FACT as there is. Your opinions are soo bais. I'm not going to say that my opinion is right as well. Opinion vs. Opinion only creates more Opinion okay. So from now on if you want to defend your points use actaul facts. Because a lot of members will get annoyed with people arguing over opinions. That's what always happens.

[Sushikins]

Of course, but its hard to argue with fact when the two things in question are from alternate universes, where one of which has a overpowered metal, though, these arguments do have a habit of getting out of hand, like the recent ones in the main GSD thread

[Omega Supreme]

All you guys are basing your points on opinions so no one is right. If you want your points to count you should put as much FACT as there is. Your opinions are soo bais. I'm not going to say that my opinion is right as well. Opinion vs. Opinion only creates more Opinion okay. So from now on if you want to defend your points use actaul facts. Because a lot of members will get annoyed with people arguing over opinions. That's what always happens.

Fact 1. Gundamium can take multiple beam saber hits. Source: Zech vs Heero. Heero in Heavy Arms takes several blows to the head with a beam saber and there was no cutting.

Fact 2. Phase shift armor does not stand up against beam sabers. Source: Many but I will cite Strike cutting through Blitz, or Athrun and Kira cutting each other's moble suits to pieces.

That good enough, or do you want me to go into the nature vs nurture?

[germanturkey]

you can't really argue something like that.. its a different universe with different properties for stuff. but in a fight with the suits as they stand, i'd have to say Heero would win, even though i love Kira... (in a non, gay way of course)

but if freedom were modified to be at WZ's abilites or WZ were modified to be at Freedom's capabilites, i'd say freedom would win

holy ****.. its 10 to 10.. lol

[Omega Supreme]

you can't really argue something like that.. its a different universe with different properties for stuff. but in a fight with the suits as they stand, i'd have to say Heero would win, even though i love Kira... (in a non, gay way of course)

but if freedom were modified to be at WZ's abilites or WZ were modified to be at Freedom's capabilites, i'd say freedom would win

holy ****.. its 10 to 10.. lol

Well I thought that was the purpose of this was to compare the suits from different univeres. All I have done is cited the suits abilities as in the show. By changing the suits or assuming that they are equal is to take them out of context. Now is Zero over powered, yes. Is it fair to compare it to Freedom, not really, but that is what the topic is about.

[Hellmaster Inu]

Here's a thought. Who would win if Kira was piloting the Wing Zero, with no Zero System installed, but in SEED mode, against Heero, piloting the Freedom, with the Zero System installed into the Freedom?

[MagicianCamille]

10-10 sounds 'bout right, it was a split decision for me I just went with the character that wouldn't die, Heero.
(Remembers Kira's survival in episode 30 of Seed, and in episode 50 of Seed)...oh wait....

[Musashi9X]

Here's a thought. Who would win if Kira was piloting the Wing Zero, with no Zero System installed, but in SEED mode, against Heero, piloting the Freedom, with the Zero System installed into the Freedom?

The ZEONG Lacus Clyne custom would win. :P

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/musashi9x/lacuszeong.jpg

[Hellmaster Inu]

The ZEONG Lacus Clyne custom would win. :P

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/musashi9x/lacuszeong.jpg

Cute picture. ^_^ Where did you get from? ::Right clicks and saves, adding it to the huge amount of Gundam SEED/SEED Destiny pictures he has on his hard drive::

[Musashi9X]

Cute picture. ^_^ Where did you get from? ::Right clicks and saves, adding it to the huge amount of Gundam SEED/SEED Destiny pictures he has on his hard drive::
I got it from a Japanese Gundam BBS that I stumbled on... I don't remember the URL though -_-;

[Shao]

IMO, It comes down to piloting skills and MS Construction. My vote is for Heero.

[MavsWorld]

As said before they come from the same universe just different time periods.

Omg that Lacus pic is so cool :) are there anymore for similar characters?

[Levon]

As said before they come from the same universe just different time periods.

:huh: No they don't.

[Sharp-kun]

:huh: No they don't.
According to Tomino they do.

Much as I despise the idea.

[Boyforever]

Fact 1. Gundamium can take multiple beam saber hits. Source: Zech vs Heero. Heero in Heavy Arms takes several blows to the head with a beam saber and there was no cutting.

This is just your opinion as well. You wouldn't know if Freedom has any tricks up his sleeves? Gundams are always upgradable. The main topic of this thread is to see who the winner is. It never mentioned what you could bring at the battle? I think your looking at the small picture not the large one.


Fact 2. Phase shift armor does not stand up against beam sabers. Source: Many but I will cite Strike cutting through Blitz, or Athrun and Kira cutting each other's moble suits to pieces.

As I said before they are from two different universe/time/ect. Just because a Gundam has a strong amor doesn't mean it's unbreakable? Freedom can use any weapon there is just like Hero's Gundam. He doesn't have to stick to what he already got. All you might know, Freedom could be using the same weapons as Hero's Gundam or even stronger weapons?

Comparing the stats can not always determine the winner, you have to see them in actual battle? Just like in many other fighting/tournament genre animes where the people in/from those animes compare fighters' stats to see who is the winner, but the outcome is not always what they expect.

You're just comparing the Gundams and didn't even mention the polits at all. So you don't have any relevent evidence to prove anything. What you stated above is bias.

Oh yeah, there is no winner when there's no actual hand to hand combat. Everybody who stated the winner from this thread is just using their opinion. Even if you try to attack another persons opinion he/she will just attack you back with his/her opinion.

Human relations have proven that attacking or defending opinions will lead to hopeless agruements or even violence. If you don't believe that the above sentence is correct then go back to school and get your ege-macation(education). Unless you are talking about two person from the same anime series/time/universe/world/dimenson/ect. then that's something to debate about.

So why did I stated the above words, because many people get annoyed and sometimes angry about people attacking and defending opinions. I for one am sick and tired of reading it too.

When you're stating an opinion don't state it in a way that would offend other people's thoughts because that's what always starts a hopeless argument. (example words not to use : it sucks, its stupid, its lame, its not worth it, ect.)

If you watch an anime and you don't like it at all, just say "I don't like it" and just give a little explaination. It could be better not to state it at all if your going to state it in a way that offend others.

Everybody is different in their own way so do what you want.

[HitokiriShadow]

Comparing the technology is difficult.

In terms of skill (while "normal"): Heero would crush Kira.
As for Zero System vs. SEED: I'm not sure. Zero System can predict movement to an extent if I recall correctly, so it may have a slight advantage.

But the most important thing to remember is this: The GW Gundams are invincible... except when they aren't.

Overall: Heero

[NeonZ]

Human relations have proven that attacking or defending opinions will lead to hopeless agruements or even violence. If you don't believe that the above sentence is correct then go back to school and get your ege-macation(education).

Or it can lead to fun debates, even though both parties know they won't be able to convice each other.


Unless you are talking about two person from the same anime series/time/universe/world/dimenson/ect. then that's something to debate about.
I'd just like to note that both characters are from the anime "Gundam", and I'd like to remind you that the therm "Alternative Universe" was created by North American fans, and, as far as I know, is not used officially in any Japanese Gundam product.

So why did I stated the above words, because many people get annoyed and sometimes angry about people attacking and defending opinions. I for one am sick and tired of reading it too.
Heh... I might be a bit weird, but... Debates, clashes between different opinions, are my main reason for viewing and posting in forums...

When you're stating an opinion don't state it in a way that would offend other people's thoughts because that's what always starts a hopeless argument. (example words not to use : it sucks, its stupid, its lame, its not worth it, ect.)
I do agree with you in this point.

As for the topic itself... I'm not sure. The armor of the Wing Gundams wasn't very consistent through Wing, but it surely is better against beam weapons than Phase-shift... However, Wing Zero lacks a conventional beam rifle, and, considering that the Buster Rifle probably wouldn't hit Kira, that's a great problem for Heero.

Heero was a trained, highly skilled pilot, while Kira, for the most part, though also very skilled, didn't do anything very impressive with the Freedom, because of the difference in power between it and the other suits from CE. Considering Destiny, it seems that he isn't even used to people dodging his attacks... But he does have the plotdevice called "SEED" factor, so, I dunno.
The fact that Kira is a coordinator is of little importance, Heero, though no coordinator, has displayed physical and mental habilities, at least, on par with one of them.

Considering the generator and weight of their Gundams, and assuming that it's entirely using for propulsion, Wing Zero should be around three times faster than the Freedom... However, Freedom's official weight stat is based on max weight, while Zero's is the empty one. Freedom has to use much of its generator to power up its weapons and Hi-Mat, while Wing Zero's Twin Buster Rifle has its own generator, BUT, that doesn't say much about the agility of the suits, and considering that the combat would end up in close range, that's what would matter in the end.

So, I dunno. ^_^

Some time ago, I'd say Wing Zero would win, but Kira is being depicted as some sort of uber pilot in Destiny, so, I'm not sure anymore.

As I said before they are from two different universe/time/ect. Just because a Gundam has a strong amor doesn't mean it's unbreakable? Freedom can use any weapon there is just like Hero's Gundam. He doesn't have to stick to what he already got. All you might know, Freedom could be using the same weapons as Hero's Gundam or even stronger weapons?

Hum... I think everyone is assuming that they're using their standard weapons, no extras allowed. This isn't Freedom + Buster Rifle VS Wing Zero + Hi-Mat, it's just Freedom VS Wing Zero.

[HitokiriShadow]

Hum... I think everyone is assuming that they're using their standard weapons, no extras allowed. This isn't Freedom + Buster Rifle VS Wing Zero + Beam Rifle, it's just Freedom VS Wing Zero.

The Gundams and the weapons are a package deal. Wing Zero's TBR is unuseable (as far as I know) by any other mobile suit and connects to the Wing Zero when it is transformed. The Freedom Gundam's beam rifles/cannons are attached to it; they are part of the Gundam. The TBR and beam rifles ARE standard equipment.

[C_U_P]

According to Tomino they do.

Much as I despise the idea.I like to think that UC rolls straight into AC, placing Gundam Wing about 40 years after Victory, and then probably Seed.....oh wait. I made a thread about this ages ago. Silly me. Anyway, I wonder how long it took that Japanese loser to draw that stupid Zeong. He sure put some - uh - detail on Lacus there. Like, way more than she needs. Lacus-styled characters shouldn't be subject to such fanservice, it seems wrong.

And Heero wins because his show is better. And he could kill Kira in a non-mobile suit fight almost as fast as McGyver. Heck, Heero could probably destroy the Freedom without his mobile suit. He seems to be good with timed explosives and grenades. Kira on the other hand is only a moronic idealist without any real SkI11Z3Rz.

[Demonboy]

Yes ofcourse Heero *I like to threaten many people but not kill them* Yui.

Seriously this is about Freedom vs Zero not Heero vs Kira in any other form.

If you ask me, I think the WZ looks more sluggish in combat compared to the Freedom.
But then comparing agility is difficult simply due to the weight differences of the 2 universes.

[Boyforever]

Or it can lead to fun debates, even though both parties know they won't be able to convice each other.

I'd just like to note that both characters are from the anime "Gundam", and I'd like to remind you that the therm "Alternative Universe" was created by North American fans, and, as far as I know, is not used officially in any Japanese Gundam product.

Hum... I think everyone is assuming that they're using their standard weapons, no extras allowed. This isn't Freedom + Buster Rifle VS Wing Zero + Beam Rifle, it's just Freedom VS Wing Zero.

All I hear is opinion this opinion that. Can't someone back up what their saying and if you can't just give the two polits a tie.

When someone assumes something it's just an opinion so that's out of the question of determining the winner. Opinions can never lead to debates just arguments. It can sometimes lead to conversations but only if one person doesn't get ticked off. The use of the word "Gundam" doesn't necessary mean that both Gundam series are the same. They use Gundams but there are a lot of similiarities and differences as well. So the use of the word "Gundam" alone can not effectively determine the story. There is no way Hero will be in Gundam Seed and Kira in Gundam Wing( if anyone even tries to say something about this sentence its just their opinion and is irrelevant.)

Okay, no battle = no winner. Statistics on a polit can lead you to assume the winner but that's just your opinion. What actually happens in the battle will determine the winner.

Lets say I'm doing an experiment in science class. First I hypothize about whats going to happen, but the outcome of the experiment can go either way even though I have some knowledge about it.

[NeonZ]

The Gundams and the weapons are a package deal. Wing Zero's TBR is unuseable (as far as I know) by any other mobile suit and connects to the Wing Zero when it is transformed. The Freedom Gundam's beam rifles/cannons are attached to it; they are part of the Gundam. The TBR and beam rifles ARE standard equipment.

Yes, I know, but Boyforever didn't seem to know that.

When someone assumes something it's just an opinion so that's out of the question of determining the winner. Opinions can never lead to debates just arguments.
But they are not using just baseless opinions, after all, many people used facts from the various series.

The use of the word "Gundam" doesn't necessary mean that both Gundam series are the same. They use Gundams but there are a lot of similiarities and differences as well. So the use of the word "Gundam" alone can not effectively determine the story. There is no way Hero will be in Gundam Seed and Kira in Gundam Wing( if anyone even tries to say something about this its just their opinion and is irrelevant.)

There's no way that Amuro would be in Victory either, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible to compare the speed of the Nu Gundam and of the V2 Gundam.

You're forgetting one simple fact. For all the different technologies employed in different series, every Gundam still has basis in our reality. Earth's gravity is always near 10G, the sky is blue, humans have two arms, etc... Yes, Freedom is never compared to Wing Zero, but both are compared to a set of physics which should remain constant in both series, unless stated otherwise. So, it is possible to compare them as long as we're able to have some kind of scale. 10 tons will always be 10 tons, 10.000 MW will always be 10.000MW, doesn't matter the series.

Yes, we don't have all necessary data, that's why there's a discussion. If it were set in stone, someone would just post the information from some official source and be done with it.

[Boyforever]

Yes, I know, but Boyforever didn't seem to know that.
But they are not using just baseless opinions, after all, many people used facts from the various series.


Please read this sentences carefully and think about it for one minute before answering.

Okay, no battle = no winner. Statistics on a polit can lead you to assume the winner but that's just your opinion. What actually happens in the battle will determine the winner.

[NeonZ]

Please read this sentences carefully and think about it for one minute before answering.

Okay, no battle = no winner. Statistics on a polit can lead you to assume the winner but that's just your opinion. What actually happens in the battle will determine the winner.

Could you tell me... when have I said that the poll would give an accurate answer to the question?

I was not talking about the poll, which usually is just a popularity contest, but about many messages in this topic.

[Boyforever]

Could you tell me... when have I said that the poll would give an accurate answer to the question?

I was not talking about the poll, which usually is just a popularity contest, but about many posts in this topic.

If you actually payed attention to my sentence you should know that I'm not refering to the poll(nope, nada, zipe).

Please reread my sentence.

Okay, I will admit that they are both good and it's a tie breaker for me.
Many of you just won't admit it that they are both evenly matched.

[Musashi9X]

According to Tomino they do.

Much as I despise the idea.
As far as I can tell, Turn A Bang is a fan-made theory, and noone has ever been able to present solid evidence to the contrary. Tomino has said he made Turn A to unify Gundam, but has never indicated he meant this in a chronological sense.

My take on it is this: We already know there was noone to visually record all the events we actually see depicted in Black History, yet they still happen to be recorded, and after being many thousands of years removed, history has a way of having many interpretations. Even now we have multiple interpretations of certain events not even from 100 years ago, and that's even taking the fact that we have historical records into account, a luxury that Moonrace's Black History does not have. Since all Gundam does in fact center on in some way the aspects of war, battle, and suffering, the key points that Black History emphasizes to begin with, the way I look at it is each Gundam Universe is similar to the 4 Gospels, each one telling a story that's the same at the core, but with glaring differences in storytelling, themes and characters presented. Thus they are four interpretations of one *truth* that only the people who lived through it actually know, at least as far as the people of CC are concerned. Obviously, the scenes that the scenes in Turn A focus on such as Amuro killing Denim and Operation British, as well as the inclusion of the Zaku and Kapool indicate favoritism to UC, but since Tomino made Turn A there's your obvious source of that favoritism. That's not to say any universe is "untrue" but this is from the viewpoint of a person in Turn A or the viewer themself, not a singular timeline.

Anyway, that said, we are to infer that each universe of Gundam is in fact its own in reference to this debate, one way or the other. Quite honestly, I don't understand what it is you're trying to say anymore, Boyforever, because you backpedal and change what you say far too much, and are too intent on telling us the way we should think rather than state a solid argument based on facts. Everytime someone does present a fact you just call it an opinion, you're obviously not even that concerned about "fact" as far as I can tell, because if I were so concerned with such I would A) Post the full technical data for both MS or data from the tech specs; B) Actually cite examples from specific episodes of each respective MS and pilot's show or technical data that can be confirmed. You've done neither of these, so you're just as guilty as relying solely on opinion as eveyrone else you're labeling, if not more so.

As far as speed/acceleration differences, based on the dry and max weight, size, and technology that's confirmed available to both Freedom and Wing Zero, I place Freedom at the *most* as fast as 2Gs fully loaded , because considering the thrust it seems to have as well as its weight. As for Wing Zero, I would estimate based on its dry weight and thrust that its thrust is at *least* 3.75 Gs fully loaded, through probably closer to the 4.5 G range. If you want the actual numbers and how I calculated them, I can provide those too, but if you really are just going to go on baseless tangents because of lack of knowledge on Gundam engineering, I would recommend against it, I'm here to provide raw data, not baseless opinions. And if you don't believe there can be a winner, or want to argue that there couldn't be one, even though you're *posting* in a thread where that's the whole point of the thread, here's a thought for you:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/musashi9x/ippo-stopposting.gif

Also saying that "Gundams are always upgradeable" is really childish, IMO. I could completely upgrade anything until it was as powerful as Ideon if I felt like it, but that's not the point here, we're only supposed to work with what we're given not give the suits fictional upgrades just because one suit has certain advantages over the other. For that matter, MS can *not* just use any weapon any other MS can, for several reasons: because of the necessity for some MS to have handplugs for power, which some do not, specialized systems like the S-Gundam's Beam Smartgun that requires a sensor linkup to the MS, the size of weapons and respective sizes of the MS that use them, and the power requirements of specific suits to use a weapon and just how many weapons they can use. Freedom and Wing Zero can *not* use any weapon and every available, and then it gets even more childish to not allow them their standard armament or what we've seen them use. If you look up any MS's technical information, all of its weapons are listed along with it. You know why? Because those are the weapons the MS was *designed* to use. It sounds like either all you want is to build them up to whatever your favorite is to be most powerful with whatever weapon, or throw them into a ring and have the MS punch each other.

Quite honestly I don't have favoritism towards either one of the contenders here, all the data I've provided has evidence to back it up, you're the one who's just choosing not to pay attention to it, simply because you think you know better even when facts are being thrown in your face. Just because you didn't KNOW about those facts doesn't make them invalid, ignorance is no excuse.

BTW his name is spelled and pronounced "Heero," not "Hero." That's a fact.

Omg that Lacus pic is so cool are there anymore for similar characters?
Not that I know of, but then, I don't know who the artist is -_-;

[NeonZ]

We already know there was noone to visually record all the events we actually see depicted in Black History, yet they still happen to be recorded, and after being many thousands of years removed, history has a way of having many interpretations. Even now we have multiple interpretations of certain events not even from 100 years ago, and that's even taking the fact that we have historical records into account, a luxury that Moonrace's Black History does not have. Since all Gundam does in fact center on in some way the aspects of war, battle, and suffering, the key points that Black History emphasizes to begin with, the way I look at it is each Gundam Universe is similar to the 4 Gospels, each one telling a story that's the same at the core, but with glaring differences in storytelling, themes and characters presented. Thus they are four interpretations of one *truth* that only the people who lived through it actually know, at least as far as the people of CC are concerned. Obviously, the scenes that the scenes in Turn A focus on such as Amuro killing Denim and Operation British, as well as the inclusion of the Zaku and Kapool indicate favoritism to UC, but since Tomino made Turn A there's your obvious source of that favoritism. That's not to say any universe is "untrue" but this is from the viewpoint of a person in Turn A or the viewer themself, not a singular timeline.

However, how does your theory explain the Kapools, Borjanons, Eagel(with GX Federation cockpits) and the Turn-X(With its Shinning Finger)? All those are mechas from the Dark History, not new models of them created by the moonrace based on possible accounts of the Dark History. And, what about Corin's flashback to the Wing Zero?

Besides, your theory while nice in concept, has as many problems as the "all Gundams happen in the same world" theories in order to make the Gundams fit together. After all, I really don't see how the story of FC or, even, AW, would be confused with UC or AC. A massive colony drop wiping out most of mankind and the stupidly powerful Devil Gundam plus the singular Gundam Fight would never be confused with the relatively "conventional" worlds of UC and AC(which also have too many differences to seriously be considered alternate versions of each other).

[MavsWorld]

Ok np, and to CUP Lacus is cool and deserves funky pics like that :P also Mia got to deface a Zaku therefore Lacus is entitled to a funny looking MS as well.
Kira has always to me come across as a much better pilot than Heero.

[Hellmaster Inu]

Kira has always to me come across as a much better pilot than Heero.

I agree there. Either that, or they just make it more obvious to the viewers that Kira is a much more skilled pilot in SEED, than they tried to make Heero look in Wing. And Lacus definetly deserves her own Zeong. :teehee:

[Musashi9X]

However, how does your theory explain the Kapools, Borjanons, Eagel(with GX Federation cockpits) and the Turn-X(With its Shinning Finger)? All those are mechas from the Dark History, not new models of them created by the moonrace based on possible accounts of the Dark History.
Doesn't have to. As I said, no singular history would be correct, for that matter, no show is a complete and entire history of its universe. As for production reasons, those should be obvious.
Besides, your theory while nice in concept, has as many problems as the "all Gundams happen in the same world" theories in order to make the Gundams fit together. After all, I really don't see how the story of FC or, even, AW, would be confused with UC or AC. A massive colony drop wiping out most of mankind and the stupidly powerful Devil Gundam plus the singular Gundam Fight would never be confused with the relatively "conventional" worlds of UC and AC(which also have too many differences to seriously be considered alternate versions of each other).
I think of it this way: Civilized humanity hasn't been around for even 6000 years. How many wildly different stories behind the creation and purpose of humanity, wars, and prophets have there been, including mythology, religion, and science? Considering how many thousands of years that have passed since Turn A's sealing, and the fact that we don't know how many thousands of years that history went by prior to that sealing, there could be any number of records or interpretations, after all, it seems almost noone in Moonrace knows about the history other than Diana. One man might say Jericho's walls came down because of the might of the trumpets, another an act of God, another might say an earthquake. That's the line of thinking, although exaggerated for both time and and scope. At any rate, it's only my take on it, thus I only need to explain my line of thinking, not rationalize it so that it fits for someone else. It makes far more sense to me then the "Turn A Bang" that so many fans readily accept. As a personal theory I don't see it as a contention for debate.

[Ctholhic]

On the original topic, I would say that despite one being the victor in battle, neither (and nobody else, in fact) would really win because the critical mass of androgynous anime characters would have been reached and Yaoi would spontaneously appear. (Jokes about fangirldom are funny because it's sadly true)

Imo, Heero would win. The ZERO system is an oracle of sorts, and seems to provide flawless tactical information (not that Heero uses it, but it potentially would give him an edge over Kira, who doesn't display the tiniest inkling of tactical knowledge himself).

[JustAPanda]

I agree there. Either that, or they just make it more obvious to the viewers that Kira is a much more skilled pilot in SEED, than they tried to make Heero look in Wing. And Lacus definetly deserves her own Zeong. :teehee:
That's funny, because from watching Wing and SEED, Heero just struck me as the be all and end all of Gundam pilots. And personally, I think Heero in a Leo could take down Kira in Meteor Freedom. :lol:

Exaggeration, but hey. I just think Heero has what it takes, Kira seems to become more and more calm and calculated, whilst Heero takes the opposite route and seems to embrace his humanity more.

Kira's an UC, Heero's spent his life battling, I've always believed experience and will to fight is more powerful than genetics, so I just think Kira doesn't stand much of a chance.

I think it's funny how Boyforever goes on about opinions, then says "I think they're even, many of you won't admit that" :rolleyes:

[MagicianCamille]

I've always believed experience and will to fight is more powerful than genetics,


Amuro, Camille, Judau, Seabook, Tobia, Usso, and Garrod disagree.

[JustAPanda]

Amuro, Camille, Judau, Seabook, Tobia, Usso, and Garrod disagree.
Ah well, conveniently they're not here to argue with me. :)

[NinjaJJ]

Heero, hands down. Kira is cool.

[Hellmaster Inu]

Heero, hands down. Kira is cool.

So you think Heero is cooler than Kira? :P

[NeonZ]

Doesn't have to. As I said, no singular history would be correct, for that matter, no show is a complete and entire history of its universe. As for production reasons, those should be obvious.

Oh, now, I understand your theory. Heh... Forget my other comments. Your theory works as well as any other. ^_^

[JustAPanda]

So you think Heero is cooler than Kira? :P
Oh if this is a coolness poll, Heero wins hands down! Freedom's probably on par with the Wing Zero, though the Custom owns all Mech ever! (Apart from maybe Jehuty :) )

[Hellmaster Inu]

Oh if this is a coolness poll, Heero wins hands down!

NANI?!!!! O_O

::Throws JustAPanda into the body bag::

Just joking.... -_-;

Kira > Heero

In terms of coolness.

[Sushikins]

Kira has a personality, Heero basicly threatens to kill people, buit never does, oh, and he spends a lot of time with Duo (Not that there's anything wrong with that)

[Boyforever]

And if you don't believe there can be a winner, or want to argue that there couldn't be one, even though you're *posting* in a thread where that's the whole point of the thread, here's a thought for you:

Is there no such thing as a tie/draw, if there isn't than I guess your god. It's okay to compare character stats and assume(opinion) the winner but that will not determine the actual outcome(the last one standing). You know why because the battle between those two polits never happened. If something never happend it means it didn't occur.


Also saying that "Gundams are always upgradeable" is really childish, IMO. I could completely upgrade anything until it was as powerful as Ideon if I felt like it, but that's not the point here, we're only supposed to work with what we're given not give the suits fictional upgrades just because one suit has certain advantages over the other.

Wow, I just you're smarter than the average kid. In every Gundam series there is some sort of upgrade to the Gundam, am I not right. So your saying that Gundam upgrades are childish, hummm, well I guess your not a child so that means you don't watch Gudam series because your too mature for it.


It sounds like either all you want is to build them up to whatever your favorite is to be most powerful with whatever weapon, or throw them into a ring and have the MS punch each other.

This one statement have nothing to do with what I posted perviously. This is your opinions not mine so don't make it like it came from me, okay.


Quite honestly I don't have favoritism towards either one of the contenders here, all the data I've provided has evidence to back it up, you're the one who's just choosing not to pay attention to it, simply because you think you know better even when facts are being thrown in your face. Just because you didn't KNOW about those facts doesn't make them invalid, ignorance is no excuse.

Oh, you have stats about the Gundams but will that determine the winner when there is the actual battle, this is the real question I want to ask you?


BTW his name is spelled and pronounced "Heero," not "Hero." That's a fact.


Now that your attacking me, you also had to attack my spelling. Man, that's just low. This is not a English class and your not my English teacher get it.
As long as people can read it then who cares.

[Hellmaster Inu]

As long as people can read it then who cares.

I'm sure a lot of people will care actually. You can only be judged by so little here, and that's pretty much how you show yourself to others in your posts.

[Boyforever]

I think it's funny how Boyforever goes on about opinions, then says "I think they're even, many of you won't admit that" :rolleyes:

Well, you haven't read through all my post lately so you wouldn't know what I actually talked about. Don't just assume that I don't like opinions in general, I never mentioned that opinions are bad alright.

PLEASE go back and read all my post in this thread then judge me afterward, but if you have just been reading my latest posts don't even think about judging me because you don't get my drift.

[Boyforever]

I'm sure a lot of people will care actually. You can only be judged by so little here, and that's pretty much how you show yourself to others in your posts.

Lets just say a lot of people care and a lof the people don't care. Lets leave it at that.

[Musashi9X]

Is there no such thing a tie/draw, if there isn't than I guess your god. It's okay to compare character stats and assume(opinion) the winner but that will not determine the actual outcome(the one last standing). You know why because the battle between those two polits never happened. If something never happend it means it didn't occur.
Again, I said it before, if you don't want to contribute anything to a thread about determining the winner other than telling us not to then
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/musashi9x/ippo-stopposting.gif
What on earth is your point? The whole thread is based on speculation. As NeonZ said, if the winner was already determined by established canon, then you wouldn't need a thread, you'd just post what to watch and be done with it. You're just telling us to not contest this just because we don't agree with your opinion, and you're bellyaching because you want all of us to not say anything and listen to your uninformed opinion? I don't think so. It seems any of my counterarguments you received to any of your uninformed statements you seemed to completely ignore because you don't want to pay attention to them, or don't want to admit your lack of knowledge in those departments. You're basically coming into a thread entitled "Who would win?" and telling us "We can't know that for sure" Well we *know* that. Inu knows that, that's why he wanted to start the thread, that way through facts and speculation a winner can be determined, and based on the data there is substantial evidence that one can be determined, because of a substantial difference in the performance of the suits. Your continued presence is nothing but a irritant to those who wish to actually discuss the issue, you telling them that their facts are invalid because they don't match your opinions.
Wow, I just you're smarter than the average kid. In every Gundam series there is some sort of upgrade to the Gundam, am I not right. So your saying that Gundam upgrades are childish, hummm, well I guess your not a child so that means you don't watch Gudam series because your too mature for it.
Wow. that made ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. You're STILL attempting to bring in hypothetical upgrades into suits that based on what we know so far don't have upgrades. Just because you think there *could* be an upgrade doesn't make it valid. If you believe there is an upgrade, then post the stats for said upgrade and your souce. Otherwise just drop it, and I would drop the personal insults lest a mod happen upon this thread.
This one statement have nothing to do with what I posted perviously. This is your opinions not mine so don't make it like it came from me, okay.
Stop telling me what you think I should think and actually contribute something to the argument.
Oh, you have stats about the Gundams but will that determine the winner when there is the actual battle, this is the real question I want to ask you?
Considering the difference in ability levels between the suits, Yes I do. I've already stated the sheer difference in armor, speed, and firepower before. It's not my fault you're too stubborn to pay attention to them. The armor is already a clear difference, I don't care if you want to ignore it, the facts are already there. I've mentinoed it, Omega Supreme has mentioned it, and NeonZ has mentioned it, among others. But if you want hard data for acceleration, then here we go, this is all data, and don't bellyache to me about the fact that you can't understand all of it. It assumes you have a rudimentary grasp on physics.

Wing Zero:
Head Height 16.7 meters
Dry Weight: 8.0 metric tons
Max Gross Weight: Not Given
Propulsion: 88150 kg total

Freedom:
Head Height 18.03 meters
Dry Weight: Not Given
Max Gross Weight 71.5 metric tons
Propulsion: Not Given

Max Gross Weight as given as a MS loaded up with propellant and ammuntion. Now, there are 2 factors that helped me determine Wing Zero's acceleration:
1) Tallgeese's maximum acceleration being potentially fatal over prolonged exposure (That's about 4-5 G based on how long it's used as shown in the anime) and the fact that Wing Zero's speed rating is given as just as high as Tallgeese's based on the official stats, thus acceleration rate must be close to the same.
2) The average weight of the propellant and ammo on a MS about the size and weight of a Gundam Wing MS (Most notably found in F91) This weight is approximately 13 Metric Tons, give or take.

Taking these two factors, I estimated Wing Zero's max gross weight to be 21 metric tons. Take that with the thrust of 88.15 metric tons (88150 kg) Dividing Thrust by Mass (or Weight) we get approximately 4.2 G of acceleration, 4.4 G if it was 1 metric ton lighter. Since both MS are flight capable, what is most important is acceleration, or the rate at which their speed increases. Now why does Wing Zero have such a glaring advantage? Let me point out Freedom's estimate acceleration.

Now, Freedom Gundam weighs 71.5 metric tons, at least three times the weight/mass of Wing Zero. We know that it has an acceleration greater than 1 G because it is able to stay aloft in Earth's gravity. (1 G = 9.8 m/s/s, the force gravity exert on a falling object, an equal force upwards is necessary to stay aloft) Now, nuclear jets in UC and Wing are fusion powered, a power source far more efficient than nuclear fission. Freedom however, is fission powered. In order to have enough thermal energy in order to use 5 projectile weapons, power 2 beam sabers, move apogee motors, heat propellant for thrust and power the MS systems, it requires a higher output reactor. (Because The TBR has been shown used by other MS I can only assume it has its own power source, much likethe larger power beam cannons in Wing do) Given its weight, height, and high energy usage of all its weapons, the UC MS that mostly closely matches Freedom in performance is ZZ Gundam, who's acceleration is 1.74 Gs fully loaded. (Similar Power output, height, and weight) If you follow MS development from UC 0079-0123, the only MS that are capable of acceleration greater than 2.5 G are scaled down and lighter, similar to Wing Zero's weight (Those familiar with the Formula project should know this.) So taken all this into account, we should end up with stats like these:

Wing Zero:
Head Height 16.7 meters
Max Gross Weight: ~21 metric tons
Propulsion: 88150 kg total (88.15 metric tons)
Acceleration: ~4.2 G (4.2 X 9.8m/s/s)

Freedom:
Head Height 18.03 meters
Max Gross Weight 71.5 metric tons
Propulsion: ~143000kg total (143 metric tons)
Acceleration: ~2.0G (2.0 X 9.8m/s/s, and that's being very generous)

Taking into account these differences, the relative speed of Freedom to Wing Zero is less than that of a Taurus, even a Leo. (In space since Leo is not flight capable) That plus the already stated differences in the quality of Gundanium armor compared to Phase Shift armor, the difference (if any) in quality of pilots is not substnatial enough to make a difference. This is quite literally almost exactly like pitting F91 versus ZZ. While ZZ is a formidable suit in its own time period, F91 makes it look like it's standing still. That's the difference in performance level. (And that's not even accounting for armor difference, although I guess F91's beam shield makes up part of that difference in the comparison)

Now that your attacking me, you also had to attack my spelling. Man, that's just low. This is not a English class and your not my English teacher get it.
As long as people can read it then who cares.
Because it's wrong. And correcting someone when they're wrong isn't attacking where I come from. I suppose your parents and teachers "attack" you all the time? Proper spelling and grammar where applicable is considered courteous to your fellow posters. :P

[Hellmaster Inu]

Because it's wrong. And correcting someone when they're wrong isn't attacking where I come from. I suppose you parents and teachers "attack" you all the time. Proper spelling and grammar where applicable is considered courteous to your fellow posters. :P

I just think he doesn't want to admit that he was wrong and you were right. :P

[C_U_P]

Let This Thread Forever Stand As A Testimony To What Happens When Idiots And People Collide.

[Boyforever]

I just think he doesn't want to admit that he was wrong and you were right. :P

Okay, many of you are saying that I am wrong.

Explain to me the battle between Kira's Gundam and Heero's Gundam, alright. What I mean by battle is the fight scene between both's Gundams. What actually happened in the battle, tell me that. How did Kira win or how did Heero win.

If many of you can't explain that then I'm right because that was mainly my point all alone.

Oh yeah if you can actually expain this, then you are god.

[Hellmaster Inu]

Okay, many of you are saying that I am wrong.

The only reason I said you were wrong is because you were complaining that Musashi was correcting your spelling error, when that's what anyone with common sense would do.

[Boyforever]

Again, I said it before, if you don't want to contribute anything to a thread about determining the winner other than telling us not to then
What on earth is your point? The whole thread is based on speculation. P

Man, you're really pushing it. First off you don't even get my main point. You accuse me of not contributing. You are the reason why I keep posting besides I have already contributed at the very beginnning. Instead of trying to understand my main point you keep on posting things that is unnecessary to my main point and you keep avoiding it as well.

Like I said before each individual is different so do what you want okay. I never said for people to not post in here, you were the one that stated that in your words.


As NeonZ said, if the winner was already determined by established canon, then you wouldn't need a thread, you'd just post what to watch and be done with it. You're just telling us to not contest this just because we don't agree with your opinion, and you're bellyaching because you want all of us to not say anything and listen to your uninformed opinion? I don't think so.
P

You were the one who replied to my posting with who bunch of karpt and didn't even bother to understand my main point.
Remember you were the one who replied first not me.

Let me clear this for everyone, this guy is really trying to make me the bad person. He's making me look like a dictator. You post want you want and you post what you like, me or this Musashi9X has no right to tell anyone to post, okay.


It seems any of my counterarguments you received to any of your uninformed statements you seemed to completely ignore because you don't want to pay attention to them, or don't want to admit your lack of knowledge in those departments. You're basically coming into a thread entitled "Who would win?" and telling us "We can't know that for sure" Well we *know* that. P

Important: If you know that "We can't know that for sure" than why are you arging with me in the first place. That was my main point. If you know about that then, who you think is the winner will be your opinion, get it.


Wow. that made ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. You're STILL attempting to bring in hypothetical upgrades into suits that based on what we know so far don't have upgrades. Just because you think there *could* be an upgrade doesn't make it valid. If you believe there is an upgrade, then post the stats for said upgrade and your souce. Otherwise just drop it, and I would drop the personal insults lest a mod happen upon this thread.P

Did you ever watch Gundam X, where that kid genius mechanic keeps on upgrading the Gundams in their ship such as Garron's Gundam X(example; stronger cannon) and the other two polits Gundam(example, the armor, the boost speed/acceleration) who are friends with Garron.

With this, lets just leave this dumb discussion at that.

[Musashi9X]

Man, you're really pushing it. First off you don't even get my main point.

You were the one who replied to my posting with who bunch of karpt and didn't even bother to understand my main point.
Yet you contradict yourself in record time with:
Important: If you know that "We can't know that for sure" than why are you arging with me in the first place.
You are the reason why I keep posting besides I have already contributed at the very beginnning. Instead of trying to understand my main point you keep on posting things that is unnecessary to my main point and you keep avoiding it as well.
First off, this is Inu's thread, not yours. Don't tell me what I can or can't post if I find more evidence and decide to post it. I don't have to acknowledge your points or listen to what you tell me to do, because quite frankly you have no authority to do so. For that matter your "main point" didn't even come up in your initial posts. It was only after that I pointed out the flaws in your arguments that you decided to start this "main point."
Let me clear this for everyone, this guy is really trying to make me the bad person. He's making me look like a dictator. You post want you want and you post what you like, me or this Musashi9X has no right to tell anyone to post, okay.
Oh this is cute. I think most of these people in this thread know who I am already, and I've been here for awhile before you showed up. While I'm a staunch debater when I get into it, I don't go around throwing baseless opinions. BTW, you are telling people what to do and think. Want proof?
All you guys are basing your points on opinions so no one is right. If you want your points to count you should put as much FACT as there is. Your opinions are soo bais

Many of you just won't admit it that they are both evenly matched.

So you don't have any relevent evidence to prove anything. What you stated above is bias.

someone back up what their saying and if you can't just give the two polits a tie.

Please read this sentences carefully and think about it for one minute before answering.

Statistics on a polit can lead you to assume the winner but that's just your opinion. What actually happens in the battle will determine the winner.
Important: If you know that "We can't know that for sure" than why are you arging with me in the first place. That was my main point. If you know about that then, who you think is the winner will be your opinion, get it.
I think I've done an adequate job of giving far more evidence than any one else in this thread already. Seeing as how you haven't replied to or successfully countered any of it Why do you even care?
Did you ever watch Gundam X, where that kid genius mechanic keeps on upgrading the Gundams in their ship such as Garron's Gundam X(example; stronger cannon) and the other two polits Gundam(example, the armor, the boost speed/acceleration) who are friends with Garron.
I could completely upgrade anything until it was as powerful as Ideon if I felt like it, but that's not the point here, we're only supposed to work with what we're given not give the suits fictional upgrades just because one suit has certain advantages over the other.
Who do you think would win in an all out Gundam fight? Heero Yuy in the Wing Zero, having mastered the Zero System or Kira Yamato in the Freedom, in SEED Mode.
If you don't have any explicit evidence about Wing Zero or Freedom specifically receiving upgrades, I suggest you simply drop it, otherwise it's a hypothetical upgrade, the upgrades to the Gundam X Gundams are specific to Gundam X.
With this, lets just leave this dumb discussion at that.
Then:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/musashi9x/ippo-stopposting.gif
Seriously. You brought this on yourself. Your first post you said:
I diffinately go with Kira, SEED MODE all the way and forever. If anyone wants a reason than I'll give them what I already said before, if not that's cool.
You could've just left it at that, since noone asked for your opinion. You decided to interject after that and start telling people what you thought even though noone asked. Then when I pointed out the problems in your arguments, you started to tell people what to do and think left and right, just because they had their own opinions. *Points at evidence above*
And as for the purpose of this thread, I have presented more than enough data. It's not my fault you don't want to acknowledge it, just don't start roidraging at me telling me it's invalid because you want to tell me there's no surefire answer. There are plenty of other versus threads that are cross universe throughout this board, yet I don't see you going into all of them and telling everyone there what to do and think.

[Hellmaster Inu]

I think it's safe to say that Boyforever has just been....

PWNED!

http://img101.echo.cx/img101/3868/owned1146kw.gif

[Musashi9X]

http://img101.echo.cx/img101/3868/owned1146kw.gif
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Do you know what film that's from? MUST RENT NOW. :lol:

[Hellmaster Inu]

Do you know what film that's from? MUST RENT NOW. :lol:

Sadly I have no idea what it's from. :( Someone was using it as their avatar on some other forum. :lol:

[Raven00]

I love both charactors, Kira with his Seed Mode will have the lead but Heero will win at the end with his strategy and survival instinct. :naughty:

[Westlo]

I love how Eypon's arm got sliced off so easily by Wing Zero yet Heavyarms survives a lot of direct beam saber slices. I also love how this "super" alloy which was somehow cut peeled away so easily in space.

Wing is BS.

Also it's been ages since I've seen Wing (2000) but doesn't the Zero System work only on known mobile suits? Since it knows their capabilites and can predict them or something?

Anyway this fight would go down to a beam saber duel since Freedom's HIMAT mode would enable it to dodge the obvious TBR shots and Freedom's guns would take years to make a dent in the invincible armour of Wing Zero that can be cut up by scientists and starts to peel away going through the Ozone layer.

[JustAPanda]

Well, you haven't read through all my post lately so you wouldn't know what I actually talked about. Don't just assume that I don't like opinions in general, I never mentioned that opinions are bad alright.

PLEASE go back and read all my post in this thread then judge me afterward, but if you have just been reading my latest posts don't even think about judging me because you don't get my drift.
First off, my comment still stands having read the entirety of this thread. You stated your opinion, then seemed to get annoyed that no one else would admit your opinion is correct.

And most of conversations on forums in my opinion seem to be debates, where there is no clear winner (in most cases) and people just state their opinions and gain or lose ground on small areas, I can't remember the last time a 'tie' was declared, normally just the rest of the posters/the posters themselves get so annoyed with the thread everyone agrees to disagree. :)

Musashi, nice calculations but I disagree with some of it. I simply think too many assumptions have been made which makes it too difficult to draw an accurate conclusion.

In any case, I don't agree with pitting them against eachother in their own mobile suits if they come from different universes with different physical defenses/weapons etc. In that case it becomes two different discussions, one where the pilot's ability is taken under account, the other where the armaments/physical capabilities of their MS (which I believe should be relative to their surrounding universes rather than directly to eachother, by this I mean that if Freedom is more comparable to a Taurus/Leo in at least acceleration like you say, then we should consider this and scale the Freedom against equivalent 'grunt' suits of it's timeline).

I would never have thought of estimating the acceleration though. ^_^ Beats the hell out of "the actual battle" which doesn't exist and is impossible to predict. :rolleyes:

[Boyforever]

Like I said before your opinion is your opinion, I have no right to tell you what to do, and if you choose to look at my post that's your decision, not mine. I can only give you my suggestions and advices, so don't make it like I'm forcing my ideas on anyone. It's either you try to understand it or ignore it is up to you.

[Boyforever]

Comparing the stats can not always determine the winner, you have to see them in actual battle? Just like in many other fighting/tournament genre animes where the people in/from those animes compare fighters' stats to see who is the winner, but the outcome is not always what they expect.


This here quote above is from my 5th post in this thread, I clearly stated in here my main point. Our arguement could have stopped right there. But this guy choose to ignore my main point and started to talk about karpt.

It's okay to compare character stats and assume(opinion) the winner but that will not determine the actual outcome(the last one standing)

If somebody clearly understands my second quote, which is my main point. Then there is nothing else to argue about. When I say there is nothing else to argue about don't just assume that I'm talking about this whole thread, I'm only talking about my agruement.

[Musashi9X]

If somebody clearly understands my second quote, which is my main point. Then there is nothing else to argue about. When I say there is nothing else to argue about don't just assume that I'm talking about this whole thread, I'm only talking about my agruement.
And that's not the purpose of this thread, yet your point is counterintuitive to the entire reason this thread was started, thus why I am free to infer that your message was intended for this entire thread. As clearly stated in Inu's first post:
Who do you think would win in an all out Gundam fight? Heero Yuy in the Wing Zero, having mastered the Zero System or Kira Yamato in the Freedom, in SEED Mode.
That opens free grounds to express speculation on this topic to however anyone sees fit. Ever since you lost your first two arguments you continue to prattle on about how in essence, this thread has no right to be argued because it's speculation, even though Inu made it clear that the purpose of this thread is speculation.
If you really want to make said point so clear to everyone else, go make a thread that everyone can ignore and leave the data comparison to the rest of us. If you're going to come into this thread and say things counterintuitive to the actual point of this thread, you are either spamming by taking it off topic intentionally, or trolling in order to prevent people from talking about the topic at hand, both policy violations. Add on top of that personal attacks, another policy violation, I would say that puts you on thin ice should a mod check your posts.
I love how Eypon's arm got sliced off so easily by Wing Zero yet Heavyarms survives a lot of direct beam saber slices. I also love how this "super" alloy which was somehow cut peeled away so easily in space.
Well, MS aren't armored as well or at all at the joints to allow greater movement, so it's not that inconceivable that a well placed beam saber could cut an arm off.
Also it's been ages since I've seen Wing (2000) but doesn't the Zero System work only on known mobile suits? Since it knows their capabilites and can predict them or something?
Not really, otherwise both ZERO Systems would've freaked out when Wing Zero and Epyon first met, which clearly didn't happen. IIRC, ZERO System works by transfering all potential outcomes to the brain of the pilot. The inherent problem comes in analyzing these outcomes quickly, and seperating those possibilities from the data feed from one's own actual thoughts, confusing reality and the ZERO data feed.

[Boyforever]

And that's not the purpose of this thread, yet your point is counterintuitive to the entire reason this thread was started, thus why I am free to infer that your message was intended for this entire thread. As clearly stated in Inu's first post:

That opens free grounds to express speculation on this topic to however anyone sees fit. Ever since you lost your first two arguments you continue to prattle on about how in essence, this thread has no right to be argued because it's speculation, even though Inu made it clear that the purpose of this thread is speculation.


Why did you even reply to my post in the first place okay if it didn't pertain to what this post is about? You chose to reply so don't give me that karpt about the purpose of this thread alright. When you started to reply, everything about this thread suddenly changed. I will admit that I posted something that doesn't belong in this thread, but the person who created this thread didn't give us specific and I mean specific details about the situation about Heero vs. Kira so I will assume that my post belongs in this thread. A person who actually knows right from wrong or even has the slightlist idea that the point I was trying to get through doesn't pertain to the purpose of this thread, will avoid my post.

Do I have to repeat that I don't have the right to tell you or anyone else what to freaken think? You as well don't have the right to tell me or any other person what to think/post/ect. as well. Man, man, man, I keep having to repeat myself that I don't give a karpt about your opinions. Opinions are opinions okay. Just because you have some stats about a character that doesn't mean that he/she will win because you don't know that for sure, so you have to assume the winner, auh.

If my post doesn't pertain to the purpose of this thread then there is no winner so don't be braging about winning cause that nevered happened.

What you assume will be the cause of what you make.

If you really and I mean really want to agrue about this; here is my yahoo instant messanger id,

boyxiongus

If you see me on yahoo messanger and I don't respond that means I'm not at my desk at the moment.

[Westlo]

Well, MS aren't armored as well or at all at the joints to allow greater movement, so it's not that inconceivable that a well placed beam saber could cut an arm off.

Well I think anyone rational who watches SEED would agree Kira is skilled at well placed attacks.

Not really, otherwise both ZERO Systems would've freaked out when Wing Zero and Epyon first met, which clearly didn't happen. IIRC, ZERO System works by transfering all potential outcomes to the brain of the pilot. The inherent problem comes in analyzing these outcomes quickly, and seperating those possibilities from the data feed from one's own actual thoughts, confusing reality and the ZERO data feed.

Thx for clearing that up like I said it's been ages since I've seen Wing and I have no intentions of watching it again. There's so many series I haven't seen why waste time rewatching mediocrity. Not to mention it's hard to rewatch a show when you can't stand the leads....

[Musashi9X]

Why did you even reply to my post in the first place okay if it didn't pertain to what this post is about?
Because you won't STOP POSTING. Since you admit that you posted something that doesn't belong here why are you still posting about it and refusing to leave it alone? I'll even repost it since you might change your mind and edit it out later on:
I will admit that I posted something that doesn't belong in this thread
A person who actually knows right from wrong or even has the slightlist idea that the point I was trying to get through doesn't pertain to the purpose of this thread, will avoid my post.
And I was pointing out that said post doesn't belong in this type of thread. When other people voiced similar opinions, all you did was lash back at them instead of drop the issue.
Do I have to repeat that I don't have the right to tell you or any else what to freaken think? You as well don't have the right to tell me or any other person what to think/post/ect. as well.
I do have that right if you are in fact intentionally taking this thread off topic and/or trolling, that is maintaining forum policy.
Man, man, man, I keep having to repeat myself that I don't give a karpt about your opinions.
If that's true and you really don't care then please:http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/musashi9x/ippo-stopposting.gif
so you have to assume the winner, auh.
Which I have said many times, is the point of this thread, and as you have stated above, you posted information that does not belong in this thread.
If this post doesn't pertain to the purpose of this thread then there is no winner so don't be braging about winning cause that nevered happened.
Uhm. I never did, and I dare you to actually cite evidence where I specifically did so and stated it.
If you really and I mean really want to agrue about this
I don't. I just want you to drop it and let this thread take its normal course instead of bellyaching that a lot of us here don't agree with your opinion. Which, as you admitted, does not belong in this thread. Quite frankly coming into a versus thread and saying (fundamentally) that this thread is invalid isn't exactly going to win you favor.

BTW, attempting to bypass the filters by using "karpt" is also a violation of forum policy.
Well I think anyone rational who watches SEED would agree Kira is skilled at well placed attacks.
True, though I think another factor to consider is the acceleration and agility of the MS in question. While we can make a fairly reasonable estimate of acceleration IMO, I don't know how well agility can be determined.

[JustAPanda]

As right as you are Musashi, you're just encouraging him! Sometimes, no matter how much sense a person is bombarded with, they'll simply fight to the bitter end to defend what they're doing, long after they realise they're wrong.

If you'd let him be several posts back I'm sure he'd have shut up by now.

It's definitely for the best that we ignore him. :)

[Musashi9X]

I believe you're right, JustAPanda. ^_^
I guess we have no choice to ignore him, I don't know how long I can keep it up, and I have other threads to be posting in. ;)

[Boyforever]

Because you won't STOP POSTING. Since you admit that you posted something that doesn't belong here why are you still posting about it and refusing to leave it alone? I'll even repost it since you might change your mind and edit it out later on:


And I was pointing out that said post doesn't belong in this type of thread. When other people voiced similar opinions, all you did was lash back at them instead of drop the issue.

I do have that right if you are in fact intentionally taking this thread off topic and/or trolling, that is maintaining forum policy.


If you actually just tell me straight up that I posted in the wrong thread then this wouldn't even occur. For someone who is trying to resolve something your just making matters worst. Oh yeah, come onto Yahoo Instant Messanger because I need to talk to you and I mean really. Becuase you think you know everything.

[Omega Supreme]

Well I think anyone rational who watches SEED would agree Kira is skilled at well placed attacks.

Thx for clearing that up like I said it's been ages since I've seen Wing and I have no intentions of watching it again. There's so many series I haven't seen why waste time rewatching mediocrity. Not to mention it's hard to rewatch a show when you can't stand the leads....

Yes he is good at well placed shots, but how well can he do that against a pilot of Heero calibur, in a suit that may have almost twice the acceleration, if the calculations are in the right ballpark.

As for the second part, I agree :-)

[CrossboneGundam]

If that's true and you really don't care then please:http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/musashi9x/ippo-stopposting.gif

More important than who said what or blahblahblah: That is SO awesome.

[Musashi9X]

As for the second part, I agree :-)
As do I. Chalk it up to reading too much tech info and a selective memory, I guess. ;)
More important than who said what or blahblahblah: That is SO awesome.
Isn't it though? I had always wanted a chance to use it, too. :lol:

[JustAPanda]

As do I. Chalk it up to reading too much tech info and a selective memory, I guess. ;)

Isn't it though? I had always wanted a chance to use it, too. :lol:
Haha, it seemed like you'd been waiting for this, as you've used it like 3 or 4 times already. ^_^

[Hellmaster Inu]

Isn't it though? I had always wanted a chance to use it, too.

I still like this one more. :teehee:

http://img101.echo.cx/img101/3868/owned1146kw.gif

The Stop Posting one is great though too. :thumbsup:

[Musashi9X]

I still like this one more. :teehee:

http://img101.echo.cx/img101/3868/owned1146kw.gif

The Stop Posting one is great though too. :thumbsup:
Well of course getting hit in the nuts is going to be better. :punch:
By Bruce Lee of all people. Though I guess there's a time and a place for both. ^_^

[CrossboneGundam]

Bruce Lee is, well, the ultimate, and all, but... I just like the relentless, incessant nature of the "STOP POSTING" one more.

[Hideki 13]

I still like this one more. :teehee:

http://img101.echo.cx/img101/3868/owned1146kw.gif

The Stop Posting one is great though too. :thumbsup:

Very nice quality video there Hellmaster. ^_^ Getting hit in the nuts is a pretty bad fate but still it probally wouldnt face Bruce Lee. :P

[Musashi9X]

Very nice quality video there Hellmaster. ^_^ Getting hit in the nuts is a pretty bad fate but still it probally wouldnt face Bruce Lee. :P
Yeah, though all you need to do is make sure to shoot at Bruce with blanks. :P
(Yeah I know, it's wrong, it's wrong...) :ph34r:

[Spike Stampede]

Kira has a personality, Heero basicly threatens to kill people, buit never does, oh, and he spends a lot of time with Duo (Not that there's anything wrong with that)

About the whole Duo thing, honestly I see alot more going on between Kira and Athrun(well until recently). And speaking of personality SEED Destiny Kira seems to have much less of a personality than any Heero in Wing.

[MavsWorld]

Heero was the perfect soldior/terrorist he didn't think of the consequences and therefore he had no personality he was a machine. Kira thinks, moralises and cares about his friends. Kira is proud of what made him human, Heero thought against it.

[Spike Stampede]

Heero was the perfect soldior/terrorist he didn't think of the consequences and therefore he had no personality he was a machine.

You've described Heero in the beginning of Gundam Wing and even then Heero still had a personality, just one of a suicidal soldier. Didn't think of the consequences? Did you see Endless Waltz? Why do you think he was so upset about the little girl, why do you think he gave up the fight against Wufei? If he had no personality he would have just owned Wufei and moved on towards the battlefield.

Kira thinks, moralises and cares about his friends.

Um, did he not just own Athrun's face because he was tired of his best friend. And moralize my butt, all he does is follow Lacus and in Seed, Fllay.

[Hellmaster Inu]

Um, did he not just own Athrun's face because he was tired of his best friend. And moralize my butt, all he does is follow Lacus and in Seed, Fllay.

That was only because he kept trying to protect Shinn, who had tried to shoot down Cagalli. I think you would do the same if your own best friend was protecting the person who tried to shoot down your sister. Kira cares about the people around him.

[HitokiriShadow]

Um, did he not just own Athrun's face because he was tired of his best friend. And moralize my butt, all he does is follow Lacus and in Seed, Fllay.

Owned him... but didn't hurt him. And like Hellmaster Inu said, he had good reason to.

[MavsWorld]

Yes and machines have personalities too, I know many people who enjoy talking to their computers.....Also sorry I should have been more precise, I meant at the beginning of the series, yes I have seen both Waltz and the series and yes I know Heero develops a personality but imo that is one of the main themes in Wing.

How can you say Kira blindely followed Fllay round and Lacus, watch the beginning of Seed where Fllay is hardly a big part and Kira finds himself in a bad situation as he must fight Athrun to protect his friends while killing people which he doesn't want to do. It takes a while before he starts doing what Fllay wants and then it isn't even for that long. Also on following Lacus around. In destiny for the majority of it so far all Lacus has said is 'Kira', and he has been taking control of things. Imo they are in a relationship and therefore they probably discuss what is going to happen to the two of them I think it is a collective thing.

[Hellmaster Inu]

Owned him... but didn't hurt him. And like Hellmaster Inu said, he had good reason to.

Right. And can you really blame Kira for what he did? He wanted to help stop the fighting by disabling everyone(like he usually does), and of course Athrun kept getting in his way, not to mention what I said earlier.

[Musashi9X]

Wow this thread is so far off track of what it was originally intended for... :lol:
Why do threads eventually all end up leading back to SEED character bashing/defending?

[Hellmaster Inu]

Why do threads eventually all end up leading back to SEED character bashing/defending?

Because Heero likes to touch Duo at night. :lol:

[HitokiriShadow]

Because Heero likes to touch Duo at night. :lol:

Only in yaoi-fangirls' dreams.

[Hellmaster Inu]

Only in yaoi-fangirls' dreams.

That would be true.... -_-; Then again, I have no respect for Heero Yuy. Duo on the other hand I actually thought was one of the better characters in Wing. I hate the rest of the Wing boys though.

[HitokiriShadow]

That would be true.... -_-; Then again, I have no respect for Heero Yuy. Duo on the other hand I actually thought was one of the better characters in Wing. I hate the rest of the Wing boys though.

I liked Quatre until he ... began focusing too much on Trowa. And blew up a colony. Wu Fei is a prick. Trowa has about as much emotion as Rei Ayanami. Heero... eh, he's alright. Too powerful (regardless of what mobile suit he's in) but more interesting than Wu Fei and Trowa.

Duo x Hilde and Milliardo/Zechs x Noin forever!

[MavsWorld]

Quatre is the best, better than the rest :P

[Hellmaster Inu]

Quatre is the best, better than the rest :P

Bah! :P No way. :teehee: The only time I liked Quatre was when he snapped and started going around blowing up colonies with the Wing Zero. Like Hitokiri said, Wu Fei is a prick, Trowa is Mr. Boring, Quatre I just don't like period, and Heero I don't like either. He has no redeeming qualites about him.

[MavsWorld]

What is Duo then, personally I found him far too arrogant stereotypical and annoying. Though I didn't like Wu Fei either.

[Hellmaster Inu]

What is Duo then, personally I found him far too arrogant stereotypical and annoying.

Even then, he's a lot easier to put up with than the other Wing boys. :teehee:

[ZGMF-X23sSavior]

i say kira would win

[bancho31]

Heero Yuy would win bcause he is much more dedicated in his mission.he would do anything even if ends up destroying zero wing

[Demonboy]

And Kira isn't? Where would you get that idea?

[Hellmaster Inu]

Heero Yuy would win bcause he is much more dedicated in his mission.he would do anything even if ends up destroying zero wing

And I'm starting to get the idea you haven't watched all of Gundam SEED. :rolleyes:

[MavsWorld]

^ I agree, Kira is as dedicated as Heero he just talks more. Also if he destroys Wing Zero then he loses :P

[Hellmaster Inu]

^ I agree, Kira is as dedicated as Heero he just talks more. Also if he destroys Wing Zero then he loses :P

Not to mention Kira is a much more likeable and developed character than Heero. Heero is a very plain and boring character compared to Kira, who is a very emotional character. 80% of the time, the only words that comes out of Heero's mouth...

-Relena, I'm going to kill you....

-Zechs!

-Mission Accomplished... (Proceeds to try to kill himself or self-destruct his Gundam)

SEED Boys > Wing Boys

Wing Boys=PWNED

http://img101.echo.cx/img101/3868/owned1146kw.gif

Heero is garbage. :teehee: If he couldn't kill Relena, then he just shoulda shut his big mouth and stop saying he would. :lol:

[Demonboy]

It was good for the amusement value I guess, its very funny how they make fun of Heero's self-destructive nature in the little SD comics you see in the Wing Mangas.

[MavsWorld]

Lol, I really need to watch SD.
Seed > Wing
Wing however is still cool and looks awesome, for some reason I love the art. Long live Seed and hooray for the almighty pwned.gif

[Ctholhic]

Seed may be > Wing, however, Wing Zero > Kira + (Strike) Freedom

(Though H Dreadnought would own both in my - rather "Eeeeeeeeh"ish - opinion)

Man, come on.. Zero system is just too powerful.

[Demonboy]

The only thing i dislike about the Wing Zero is the little orb thing in the middle of the chest (what is that for anyway?) and the fact that its gundanium armour makes it super strong. Plus its TBR is just boring to watch since it justs devastates anything in its path (if it connects.)

[Musashi9X]

The green orb serves as housing for additional cameras/sensors for the suit, I believe.

[bancho31]

i agree that Kira is one of the best and saying he is in state of seed mode incresing his abilities but still Heero is more experienced when it comes to war &battle strategy w/ zero system.


Zero system description from mahq.net:

However, one more factor put the Wing Zero above everything else: the cockpit's "Zero System," which allowed the pilot's mind to interface directly with the Gundam's combat computer. Although the exact nature of the Zero System's operation is unclear, it appeared to operate by "sampling" the pilot's thoughts and, combining them with current combat data, presented the pilot with various alternate outcomes. Thus, depending on the pilot's mood, the Zero System could tell him/her how to achieve total victory... or decisive defeat. Nevertheless, the mental stresses the Zero System would place on the pilot would be too great for any ordinary human to handle, and even the five mad scientists saw the dangerous turn their work was taking. And thus, the Wing Gundam Zero project was shelved. A copy of the plans went with each of the five scientists when they broke up and went underground to pursue their own individual plans for revolution against OZ. The Wing Zero design would serve as a base model for the five Gundams that would actually be built and sent to Earth.

________________________________________ ______________________

pls give me a description of what can seed mode can do..........

[Shao]

From what I seen with seed mode can do is pretty much crap.

[Demonboy]

pls give me a description of what can seed mode can do..........

Have you even seen SEED?

[Hellmaster Inu]

From what I seen with seed mode can do is pretty much crap.

I could say the same thing about the Zero System. :rolleyes: Then again, maybe that's just all the angst I have against Wing kicking in. And going into SEED mode is basically just surpassing your limits.

[MavsWorld]

Watch the desert battle of Seed.

[Hellmaster Inu]

Watch the desert battle of Seed.

I have. ;) Why do you say that though?

[Shao]

Seed Mode is a joke like that ......... Newtype ahh I mean the wonder twins Newtype.

[Musashi9X]

I could say the same thing about the Zero System. :rolleyes: Then again, maybe that's just all the angst I have against Wing kicking in.
Well if it's against Wing it's not really angst, is it? ;) (Angst is almost always unspecific in target)
And going into SEED mode is basically just surpassing your limits.
Despite the number of times I've heard people say this, and the number of times I've asked a source for that information to be provided, noone has been able to produce said source. They just say "Fukuda said it" but they never point out where. Any help here, Inu? ^_^

Given that GundamOfficial defines SEED Factor as: "A factor that determines the course of a species' evolution. The existence of the SEED factor has yet to be proven, and it remains a subject of intense controversy in scientific circles. But in theory, those who possess the SEED factor have the ability to advance to the next stage of human evolution - an ability unrelated to whether the carrier is a Natural or a Coordinator." That doesn't sound anything like "Going past your limits."

Anyway, ZERO System is explained within the context of the story. The show takes a good amount of time explaining what it is, and what its capabilities are, there is exposition within the story itself about it, and it is explained to a degree. The ZERO System itself becomes a plot point within the story. The same can be said for Newtypes, be they UC or AW. However, SEED Factor is never explained within the context of the story, never even brought up except for that one recap episode, and never used as a plot point in the story. If you said the words "Newtype" or "ZERO System" to anyone in the respective stories, they would know what it was. If you said "SEED Factor" to anyone in SEED, they'd just go "Huh?" That's the thing that irks me about it, at present it only exists as a Deus ex Machina with no explanation behind it in the story itself, and a very weak one if at all outside the story. I mean, even Super Saiyajin got more exposition that SEED Factor did. :lol: I can only hope that within the next 20 episodes SEED Destiny can actually fix this.

[Demonboy]

*comment removed because it was very irrelavent, lets just say I addressed the wrong person by mistake.*

[Shao]

I couldn't it say better myself.

[Demonboy]

oops sorry, i don't mean you... I meant the guy above your post before my last one (not the one on this page..) sorry my eyes are failing me.

[Hellmaster Inu]

Well if it's against Wing it's not really angst, is it? ;) (Angst is almost always unspecific in target)

I guess I shoulda said that better than. I just have a lot of hatred towards Heero. :) I just think he's such a horrible character.

Despite the number of times I've heard people say this, and the number of times I've asked a source for that information to be provided, noone has been able to produce said source. They just say "Fukuda said it" but they never point out where. Any help here, Inu? ^_^

Given that GundamOfficial defines SEED Factor as: "A factor that determines the course of a species' evolution. The existence of the SEED factor has yet to be proven, and it remains a subject of intense controversy in scientific circles. But in theory, those who possess the SEED factor have the ability to advance to the next stage of human evolution - an ability unrelated to whether the carrier is a Natural or a Coordinator." That doesn't sound anything like "Going past your limits."

I stand corrected..... Excuse me for one moment will you? :) ::Steps out of the room to go kill the people who told him that SEED mode was surpassing your limits::

Seed Mode is a joke like that ......... Newtype ahh I mean the wonder twins Newtype.

Wonder Twins, Activate!

Form of...... Dog Crap!

Shape of..... A Penis!

-_-;

[HitokiriShadow]

I get the impression that 'SEED mode' just gives the person enhanced mental processing and reactions. Their physical capabilities don't change, but they are more effective in what they do because of their mental changes.

[Lt. Mustang]

Umm, this probally has been mentioned before, but which version of Wing Zero are we talking about>? Also totally random, but in terms of love interest, Kira would win the battle!

[Hellmaster Inu]

Umm, this probally has been mentioned before, but which version of Wing Zero are we talking about>? Also totally random, but in terms of love interest, Kira would win the battle!

The Wing Zero from Gundam Wing, not Endless Waltz. At least that's the one I was talking about when I made this thread. I guess I didn't make it very clear, huh? -_-;

[MagicianCamille]

I assumed we meant the original Wing Zero.

[Hellmaster Inu]

I assumed we meant the original Wing Zero.

You assumed correct. :)

[ThawedMagun]

Although I think that Kira is a great Pilot even in SEED (Berserker Mode) I would still have to say that Heero would win that battle. He's demonstrated more skill with more mobile suits and has been trained to be the perfect soldier all his life. Now the fact that his genes might have been worked on prior or post his birth is up in the air but he does have the title of "The Perfect Soldier." Having just watched both series I would still say Heero on the basis that battles did tend to wear Kira out both physically and mentally. After every battle he would retire to his room and reflect on what just happend where as no matter what the revalation in and out of battle, Heero never showed any signes of either of these strains. There were even times when he was physically wounded and still fought to the highest of his abilities (Case in point, his left arm wound that he ripped open during the Heavy Arms v. Tallgeese battle and he still fought to the top of his abilities.)

On the Mental Battle field I would still give it to Heero. Mastering the Zero System is no easy thing to accomplish and Hero is the only one who was capable of doing so and continued to use its system. Many have succumbed to their darker sides and caved into the Zero System resulting in Madness and eventually, defeat.

While Kira's Freedom Gundam is better equiped for mutiple suit combat, it is no dueling machine. Even Kira's skills with weaponry are sub-par to Heero's natural abilities. Relying on a large cache of amunition to get the job done Kira still barely walked away from battles that were completely left up to luck. In the early stages on Gundam Wing, Heero's Buster Rifle had 3 shots to eliminate his targets and then had to rely on a beam sabre. That alone kept him in his pique of being cold, calculated and brought him to point of risking everything just to accomplish his mission.

Although I have much love and respect for Kira, he really isn't much of a warrior. even being the "Perfect Coordinator" can't help against someone who had been soldering all his life.

Say what you will but thats my two cents you can take it or leave it.



I even think Heero would win in a Taurus, Ginn or even his test - pilot suit, the "Mercuious"

[Kali-chan]

although I do believe Kira could win in a fight, I haven't seen the other guy at all ,so I'm biased.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Thread Necromancy is bad.

[Levon]

*bashes brain into keyboard* Of all the threads to bring back after they have died....


Heero would blow himself up. Kira wins by default. Of course Heero won't actualy die, he will just lose his Gundam until the enemy re-builds his Gundam.

[Shin Asuka]

Well its a tough choice, heero is a master of the wing zero but kira's ultimate coordinator and coordinators alone can do so much more that a natural human but Im sure it would be more interesting to watch if Kira were in the Strike-Freedom :D

[Shin Asuka]

AND ALSO!!!! Even if Heero did manage to beat kira that would result in blowing up the Freedom which would also mean nuclear explose which would kill heero...ALL SEED Fans know that the Freedom and the Justice are nuclear power :P Dont you just love N Jammer cancelers :P

[CrossboneGundam]

AND ALSO!!!! Even if Heero did manage to beat kira that would result in blowing up the Freedom which would also mean nuclear explose which would kill heero...ALL SEED Fans know that the Freedom and the Justice are nuclear power :P Dont you just love N Jammer cancelers :P

I smell fresh blood in the water.

If you saw Wing, you'd know that Heero and co. regularly destroy MS (all of which are nuclear powered, and always have been since the start in MSG in1979,) that explode ludicrously easy without causing them any problems.

Or to phrase it in a less friendly way: "ALL Gundam fans know that every Mobile Suit before SEED was nuclear powered."

[ThawedMagun]

God Gundam is Quite magnificant. Now Domone Kashu would put up a good fight against Heero. Domone's Martial Arts V. Heero's Mind for Battle and strategy. Now there is a battle of the century. The Body V. The Mind.

[ThawedMagun]

Wing Zero is also Nuclear Powered. As was Epyon. Don't forget that.

[Len]

Heero would probably beat Kira because Heero is made out to be omnipotent. Kira would never have survived without Lacus' help. Heero would play god and come out with-out a scratch. I don't know if you say SEED Vs. Zero System though which one would kick in quicker.

And "Heero's mind for battle & strat"? Kira knows genius level physics.

[Shin Asuka]

I smell fresh blood in the water.

If you saw Wing, you'd know that Heero and co. regularly destroy MS (all of which are nuclear powered, and always have been since the start in MSG in1979,) that explode ludicrously easy without causing them any problems.

Or to phrase it in a less friendly way: "ALL Gundam fans know that every Mobile Suit before SEED was nuclear powered."

Basicly what i was saying before is no matter who wins they still lose, Either the Wing zero or the Freedom will eventually exploed resulting in a nuclear explosion P.S I have seen all 50 phases of SEED and all 49 Epsiode of Wing, ITS ALL RIGHT PEOPLE CALM DOWN I KNOW WHATS GOING ON :P

[Shin Asuka]

Though i got a question do more ppl vote heero because they hate the newer gundam series and like the older ones better?

[Bernard_Monsha]

Though i got a question do more ppl vote heero because they hate the newer gundam series and like the older ones better?

No I like SEED more than Wing, I like any UC series more than either.

[Levon]

Though i got a question do more ppl vote heero because they hate the newer gundam series and like the older ones better?


It has nothing to do with older or newer. Most Gundam fans of older Gundam hate Wing. Most fans have more respect for SEED than they do for Wing.

[Shin Asuka]

see I like SEED and SEED destiny and i get what your saying it just seems like the majority of the gundam fans like the old stuff more

[Shin Asuka]

My bad I like them the most though im watching in Dub so i havnt finished SEED destiny yet

[CrossboneGundam]

Though i got a question do more ppl vote heero because they hate the newer gundam series and like the older ones better?

Somehow I don't imagine you're familiar with Mobile Suit Gundam, Zeta Gundam, Gundam ZZ, Char's Counterattack, V Gundam, F91, etc.

[Shin Asuka]

srry my bad i have seen Mobile suit gundam: The 08th Ms Team, Wing, SEED, SEED destiny, G gundam, SD gundam, Mobile suit gundam, though i dont really mind the originals i though G gundam was sorta weird i did like the 08th MS team a lot! Oh and my bro just got Zeta in the mail so im watching that now to!

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

Heero Yuy,he is someone who would do anything to acomplish the mission.

[Tamahawk]

Dude, Heero Yuy?!? The whole Gundam Wing Series, is the most crappiest imo. These gundams are treated as "gods". And, the Pilots are also the best there are?!? A 15 YEAR OLD, piloting that. He's probably not even a newtype. Thats not even REMOTELY POSSIBLE. What, his parents trained him? I doubt. The characters are poorly developed. Kira Yamato, Has a better chance at whoopin' Heero.

[Tamahawk]

Oh, and also, that twin buster rifle must take a LOT of energy. If its able to take out a colony, then it probably drains the gundam. Heero would only be able to do so much, and he'd be killed in no time. And where do the Main gundams of gundam wing resupply? Do they have some kind of infinite energy supply source?

By the way, i have heard of the edit button.

[Soluzar]

And where do the Main gundams of gundam wing resupply? Do they have some kind of infinite energy supply source?
Ya know, you're not supposed to ask questions like that. Gundam Wing has no flaws, ask the member called Amuro, if you don't believe me. <_<

By the way, i have heard of the edit button.
Then why not use it?

[Tamahawk]

Because i have a choice?

[ZeroRyoko1974]

Heero because Wing Zero pwnz

[Tamahawk]

Why did they even create CRAP series like Gundam Wing and G gundam???? Its Stories are completely stupid, i could write a better script than this "Releena, i need to kill you." "OH HEERO, I LOVE YOU!!!!" The 5 pilots are centered as gods, which, is totally unrealistic. The gundam series is a "Real Robot" series, not a "Super Robot" series.