UC Gundam question. Why is it that the Federation got so weak?

[Effect]

As we can see in Gundam F91 and V Gundam that the Earth Federation doesn't seem to have that much power or they simply don't care if other factions do what they want. Why did they become this way?

In CCA, we see them trying to bring down Char's Neo Zeon via Londo Bell. Is it that they had no pull with the colonies during that time? Where they so damaged due to Char's forcing objects onto Earth? Or did they really simply didn't recover from the the combine events during the One Year War and the events in 0083 with Gato destorying a large part of the Federation fleet?

Did different parts of the world simply wanted out of the Federation and started running their own governments or did everyone simply move to the different colonies and became their own countries with their own forces?

Or shoud I continue to watch Gundam Z for it to be explained?

Thanks.

[MagicianCamille]

In ZZ the Federation does nothing, they just rely on AEUG to fight Neo Zeon for them, I'm guessing along with the leadership of the Titans went the leadership of the Federation. You can thank Scirroco for that.

[RedTail]

The Feds are always behind in MS development. Before the OYW, they were actually developing mobile suits, but the program was scrapped for budget reasons, by F91, Federal MS are hopeless outclassed by smaller suits, and by Victory, the Federation is using 50 year old technology to fight BESPA.
For over 80 years, the Feds kept overhauling the worthless Salamis rather than actually spending the money to mass produce a better ship to serve as their fleets' backbone.
Corrupt and incompotent politicians and military leaders sure as hell didn't help matters. If the bureaucrats weren't foolishly handing over giant rocks that could be hurdled at Earth, then military officials were knowingly putting Earth in jeopardy to gain power.
Turning a blind eye to affairs in space...


The list could go on and on... Really, the only thing that allows the Feds to keep on bouncing back are their sheer numbers.

[GP04]

As we can see in Gundam F91 and V Gundam that the Earth Federation doesn't seem to have that much power or they simply don't care if other factions do what they want. Why did they become this way?

In CCA, we see them trying to bring down Char's Neo Zeon via Londo Bell. Is it that they had no pull with the colonies during that time? Where they so damaged due to Char's forcing objects onto Earth? Or did they really simply didn't recover from the the combine events during the One Year War and the events in 0083 with Gato destorying a large part of the Federation fleet?

Did different parts of the world simply wanted out of the Federation and started running their own governments or did everyone simply move to the different colonies and became their own countries with their own forces?

Or shoud I continue to watch Gundam Z for it to be explained?

Thanks.

During F91 and V(UC 123 and 153), Fed got weak because one reason: There are no need for military at all.

There are no major threat to Fed after CCA, therefore Fed basically keep their military expense to minial. (that's why you can still see Salamis class ships in 153) It is kinda right from Fed's point of view, I mean who do they need a strong military for? Aliens?

During CCA, the point is not that Fed don't have the military power, the point is that Fed is being extremely unorganized. In the end of CCA, there are more than one fed fleets around the final battle field (like 88th fleet), however, without order, they can't do anything.

what Fed never recovered from it actually not from OYW or the stupid little battle Delaz put up; Fed never recovered from its own fight: AEUG VS TITENS.

[GP04]

[list]
For over 80 years, the Feds kept overhauling the worthless Salamis rather than actually spending the money to mass produce a better ship to serve as their fleets' backbone.


Actually, even through Salamis class were still used in UC 153, the majority of ships are La calss and the others that were in CCA (forgot its name...)
But even that its still old.

[list]
Corrupt and incompotent politicians and military leaders sure as hell didn't help matters. If the bureaucrats weren't foolishly handing over giant rocks that could be hurdled at Earth, then military officials were knowingly putting Earth in jeopardy to gain power.

Very true! Maybe Fed leaders has "Colony drop" fobia...

[RedTail]

There are no major threat to Fed after CCA, therefore Fed basically keep their military expense to minial. (that's why you can still see Salamis class ships in 153) It is kinda right from Fed's point of view, I mean who do they need a strong military for? Aliens?

Heh, the Zeon threat was supposedly removed after the OYW, but Delaz sure as hell proved them wrong.

During CCA, the point is not that Fed don't have the military power, the point is that Fed is being extremely unorganized. In the end of CCA, there are more than one fed fleets around the final battle field (like 88th fleet), however, without order, they can't do anything.

Actually, all the Federal garrisons were ordered to stay put to ensure that the colonies didn't rebel. When Char visits Londenion, the home base of the OYW and Gryps era heroes of Londo Bell, Char is hailed as a hero and gets his own polka. (Dance Char, dance!) Anyway, if it was like that at Londenion, then it was probably a lot worse at other colonies. Of course, some break th ose orders when they catch wind of Axis hurdling towards Earth.

what Fed never recovered from it actually not from OYW or the stupid little battle Delaz put up; Fed never recovered from its own fight: AEUG VS TITENS.

Oh they recover. They're always the largest force in the Earth Sphere. They're just always either disorganized or behind in MS development.

Actually, even through Salamis class were still used in UC 153, the majority of ships are La calss and the others that were in CCA (forgot its name...) But even that its still old.

I only remember seeing one Ra Cailum class in V and that was the Jeanne D'Arc. Now there are a number of Clop class, but you there are still far more Salamis Kai then then Clops. I'd have to go back and watch it, but I think the Bagley Team was mostly composed of Salamis Kai. Also the two escort ships for the Reinforce were Salamis Kai as well.

[GP04]

Heh, the Zeon threat was supposedly removed after the OYW, but Delaz sure as hell proved them wrong.


Delaz might done some damage to Fed, but he can hardly be called as a threat. I mean come on, only 20 ships and 80 MS?
And my point is that even there are some small rebellions, its not big enough for Fed to pay up for military defense.


Actually, all the Federal garrisons were ordered to stay put to ensure that the colonies didn't rebel. When Char visits Londenion, the home base of the OYW and Gryps era heroes of Londo Bell, Char is hailed as a hero and gets his own polka. (Dance Char, dance!) Anyway, if it was like that at Londenion, then it was probably a lot worse at other colonies. Of course, some break th ose orders when they catch wind of Axis hurdling towards Earth.


I thought he got his song when they were back in Sweetwater...


Oh they recover. They're always the largest force in the Earth Sphere. They're just always either disorganized or behind in MS development.


I think it is being a little unfair to Fed, saying that since they have most resource, they should bounce back in no time. However, Fed is the one who have to clean up all the mess that other caused. (yeah, I am talking about you Haman and Char) and after all the colony drop, I don't think Fed has lots of resource on their hand.


I only remember seeing one Ra Cailum class in V and that was the Jeanne D'Arc. Now there are a number of Clop class, but you there are still far more Salamis Kai then then Clops. I'd have to go back and watch it, but I think the Bagley Team was mostly composed of Salamis Kai. Also the two escort ships for the Reinforce were Salamis Kai as well.

I don't think there are so many Salamis class could join the war in 153, since Fed only produced 657 of them and 137 blow up in the One week war...
However, Fed did put people in ships that designed almost 100 years ago and send them out to fight...

the other reason why at least from the look of it, there are less Clop class is because some of them, due to overusage, were downgraded to Spaceark class. But overall from what I saw, Salamis indeed fought in 153, but just in limited role.

[RedTail]

Delaz might done some damage to Fed, but he can hardly be called as a threat. I mean come on, only 20 ships and 80 MS?
And my point is that even there are some small rebellions, its not big enough for Fed to pay up for military defense.

The guy destroyed 2/3 of the EFSF and pulled off a colony drop. Even if the Corini, Jamitov, Bosque, and Wyatt were letting this happen, I still think it counts for something.

I thought he got his song when they were back in Sweetwater...

Bleh, I think you're right. Still though, the Feds were ordered to stay put and let Londo Bell handle it.

I think it is being a little unfair to Fed, saying that since they have most resource, they should bounce back in no time. However, Fed is the one who have to clean up all the mess that other caused. (yeah, I am talking about you Haman and Char) and after all the colony drop, I don't think Fed has lots of resource on their hand.

They're always able to recover in numbers is what I'm saying.

I don't think there are so many Salamis class could join the war in 153, since Fed only produced 657 of them and 137 blow up in the One week war... However, Fed did put people in ships that designed almost 100 years ago and send them out to fight...

I'd like to know where you're getting that information from. If it's an Entertainment Bible, you mine as well throw that number away. Secondly, those are Salamis class and not Salamis Kais. I imagine that whatever was left after the OYW were upgraded to 0083 version Salamis Kai's with no MS carrying capacity. Then when most of those were blown away at Konpei Island, they produced the new Salamis Kai which could actually carry MS.

The other reason why at least from the look of it, there are less Clop class is because some of them, due to overusage, were downgraded to Spaceark class. But overall from what I saw, Salamis indeed fought in 153, but just in limited role.

Space Ark class were only training ships.

[GP04]

The guy destroyed 2/3 of the EFSF and pulled off a colony drop. Even if the Corini, Jamitov, Bosque, and Wyatt were letting this happen, I still think it counts for something.


Delaz didn't destory 2/3 of EFSF, its fleet destoried 2/3 of ships that joined the stupid show that Wyatt put up.


I'd like to know where you're getting that information from. If it's an Entertainment Bible, you mine as well throw that number away. Secondly, those are Salamis class and not Salamis Kais. I imagine that whatever was left after the OYW were upgraded to 0083 version Salamis Kai's with no MS carrying capacity. Then when most of those were blown away at Konpei Island, they produced the new Salamis Kai which could actually carry MS.


I got my info from a BBS in Taiwan, I think they used data from the Bible of Gundam-Gundam Century.

The 657 Salamis is inclued of all Salamis calss, which include org Salamis, Benson version, Kais, etc.


Space Ark class were only training ships.
But it is a downgrade version of Clop class, and even it was a training ship, it is still better than Salamis.

[RedTail]

Delaz didn't destory 2/3 of EFSF, its fleet destoried 2/3 of ships that joined the stupid show that Wyatt put up.

The naval reviews were tradition (0064, 0078, 0079) and just about every ship that wasn't hard pressed into some other duty would attend. Synapse says something along those lines as well.

I got my info from a BBS in Taiwan, I think they used data from the Bible of Gundam-Gundam Century.

The 657 Salamis is inclued of all Salamis calss, which include org Salamis, Benson version, Kais, etc.

I'm going to go back through and take some screenshots of the Bagley Team and the EFF fleet assembled around Hiland. I'll have 'em up either later tonight or tomorrow.

But it is a downgrade version of Clop class, and even it was a training ship, it is still better than Salamis.

They weren't used as a replacement for the Salamis on any level, and they hardly ever show up in animation.

[GP04]

The naval reviews were tradition (0064, 0078, 0079) and just about every ship that wasn't hard pressed into some other duty would attend. Synapse says something along those lines as well.



I'm going to go back through and take some screenshots of the Bagley Team and the EFF fleet assembled around Hiland. I'll have 'em up either later tonight or tomorrow.



They weren't used as a replacement for the Salamis on any level, and they hardly ever show up in animation.

1. I never heard anything like it. I though the review was just to show rest of Zeon how power Fed is. Could you tell me where did you find that info?

Also Synapse only said "Since we are one of the newer ship, we should have attended the review" or something like that.

2. Was that a joke? Because I wasn't laughing. Plus I only used that info from the website because it is one of the most reliable site in Chinese. majority of the info are conformed from the right source.

3.
All I am saying is that Fed did used Salamis Class in 153, however, it didn't play a major role, prob like backup or sothing like that.

[RedTail]

1. I never heard anything like it. I though the review was just to show rest of Zeon how power Fed is. Could you tell me where did you find that info?

UC Master Timeline (http://www.dyarstraights.com/msgundam/timeline.html): Ctrl+F "naval review", enter 3 times.

2. Was that a joke? Because I wasn't laughing. Plus I only used that info from the website because it is one of the most reliable site in Chinese. majority of the info are conformed from the right source.

Umm, no... I'm going to go back to the animation and take some screenshots to prove that the Salamis Kai outnumber the Clop by at least 3:1 or possibly 6:1.

[RedTail]

Here's a shot of the Bagley Team:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/PubRebel/Bagley.gif

In this picture from episode 14, you can clearly see at least 4 Salamis Kai and 1 Clop. I marked one ship as ?? because I'm not really sure if it's a Clop or Salamis Kai. I'm guessing it's a Clop though. The one visible Clop shows up again in episode 15 as the last remaining ship in the Bagley Team. The Javeline pilots even call it their flagship.

I'll add some more pics later.

Edit - Reinforce Escort:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/PubRebel/rfescort.gif

One Clop acting as a tug for the Reinforce (not pictured) with two Salamis Kai on its flanks.

Hiland Fleet:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/PubRebel/hifleet.gif

This is the EFF fleet at Hiland. You can see several Salamis Kai in the background. The two ships I have marked ?? look like Ra Cailum class from that view, but a side shot later on shows them to be Clops... Odd... Edit: On second glance, they are Clops. Each of the ships I've marked ?? have one antenna instead of the two that a Ra Cailum class would have. The hull just looked a bit too bulky when I first looked at it.

[GP04]

Sorry I have misunderstood you.

Yeah, I guess fed used a lot of Salamis...

But let me go back and check, I haven't watch V in a really long time...

On the Naval review point, I think it is only the tradition to show off how powerful Fed is.

UC 64-->Rep of Zeon, and rest of Sides
UC 78-->Zeon Principality's uprising
UC 83-->Rest of remaining Zeon

From what I see, the review supposedly should only be joined by new models, like Gray Phantom, Throualbreed (sp) and Birmingham etc.

And not all of the Fleet has joined the review, Cohan's 3rd fleet, Bask's Earth Orbital Fleet, Luna Fleet didn't join.

And going back to the org point, even after Gato blow up 2/3 of fleet attending the review, the Surviving ships still outnumbered Delaz fleet.
So there is no need for Fed politian to put the money into military instead of their pocket...

[RedTail]

Yeah, I guess fed used a lot of Salamis...

But let me go back and check, I haven't watch V in a really long time...

The caps I took were from episodes 14, 16, and 41. You might have better luck looking at the EFF/League Militaire attack on Angel Halo, but I'm sure you'll find just as many Salamis.

From what I see, the review supposedly should only be joined by new models, like Gray Phantom, Throualbreed (sp) and Birmingham etc.

If that were the case, then there should have been a naval review shortly after 70 Armament Plan produced the Salamis and Magellan.

And not all of the Fleet has joined the review, Cohan's 3rd fleet, Bask's Earth Orbital Fleet, Luna Fleet didn't join.

It's been about 2 years since I've seen 0083 so bare with me on this, but did Kowen really have his own fleet? IIRC, he had a pretty hard time mustering two Salamis to help the Albion. If he did have his own fleet, then this wouldn't have been a problem.

I don't remember anything about a "Luna Fleet". Also what do you mean by "Luna"? The fleet from Luna II or Granada? I think you might mean the Pursuit Fleet that was organized from the remenants of the naval review.

The only other fleet is the Earth Orbital Defense Fleet as you mentioned, and obviously that was the Fed's last line of defense in space so of course they wouldn't attend.

Also, if you do have data on the makeup of the Federal Forces fleets during 0083, could you link me? The only solid information I have is on the Delaz, Cima, and Axis Advanced fleets...

And going back to the org point, even after Gato blow up 2/3 of fleet attending the review, the Surviving ships still outnumbered Delaz fleet.
So there is no need for Fed politian to put the money into military instead of their pocket...

The Salamis Kai of the Gryps Era onward isn't listed as a refit though. They build more.

Edit - I realize this goes counter to what I said before, but they definately aren't listed as refits and the Kai from 0083 is much smaller than its OYW version and the Gryps Era version. So yea, they definately build more.

Also keep in mind that by Gryps, the Magellan has almost been completely phased out (except from a brief return in Sentinel). Of course the regular forces would need a lot of new Salamis Kai. They don't have the Ra Cailum or Clop class yet.

[GP04]

The caps I took were from episodes 14, 16, and 41. You might have better luck looking at the EFF/League Militaire attack on Angel Halo, but I'm sure you'll find just as many Salamis.

[QUOTE=RedTail]

If that were the case, then there should have been a naval review shortly after 70 Armament Plan produced the Salamis and Magellan.

I think you are mising my point..
In UC 64, Rep of Zeon just form,( like 4 or 5 years) My guess why Fed had the review was because the fear of other side might seek independence of their own.
In 78, my guess is to scare off Zeon (clearly it didn't work)
in 83, trying to scare remaining Zeons (didn't work either)


It's been about 2 years since I've seen 0083 so bare with me on this, but did Kowen really have his own fleet? IIRC, he had a pretty hard time mustering two Salamis to help the Albion. If he did have his own fleet, then this wouldn't have been a problem.

I don't remember anything about a "Luna Fleet". Also what do you mean by "Luna"? The fleet from Luna II or Granada? I think you might mean the Pursuit Fleet that was organized from the remenants of the naval review.

The only other fleet is the Earth Orbital Defense Fleet as you mentioned, and obviously that was the Fed's last line of defense in space so of course they wouldn't attend.

Also, if you do have data on the makeup of the Federal Forces fleets during 0083, could you link me? The only solid information I have is on the Delaz, Cima, and Axis Advanced fleets...


When Kowen were in the intel room in Jaburo, the intel officor were telling him the sitution about the point of no return. and he said something like "Where the hell are my 3rd fleet?"

About the Luna fleet, I am pretty sure that it was from moon base.
I though it was a 3 way pursue: Kimpei remaining fleet, fleet from moon, and Earth Orbital Defence Fleet.
But I could be wrong, it's been a while.

I got most of my info from watching 0083 and little piece here and there. But if I found anything interesting, I will let you know.


The Salamis Kai of the Gryps Era onward isn't listed as a refit though. They build more.
I know, Salamis class (from what I know) is listed like this:
Org Salamis
Benson Ver Salamis ( with hanger OUTSIDE of ship, kinda like telling the pilot "Once you leave the ship, don't bother coming back")
Salamis (0083 version), upgrade version of Org Salamis, can't carry ANY MS
Salamis kai, can carry about 4 MS

[GP04]

Edit - I realize this goes counter to what I said before, but they definately aren't listed as refits and the Kai from 0083 is much smaller than its OYW version and the Gryps Era version. So yea, they definately build more.

Also keep in mind that by Gryps, the Magellan has almost been completely phased out (except from a brief return in Sentinel). Of course the regular forces would need a lot of new Salamis Kai. They don't have the Ra Cailum or Clop class yet.

1. Actually from my source, 0083 version is a little bigger than org verion:
Org L:187M W;68
0083: L:195M W:75

2. But then they have the Alexandria Class

[Effect]

Is pretty sad that such a large organization was so unorganized. Power hungry leaders at their worse. :(

[RedTail]

I think you are mising my point..
In UC 64, Rep of Zeon just form,( like 4 or 5 years) My guess why Fed had the review was because the fear of other side might seek independence of their own.
In 78, my guess is to scare off Zeon (clearly it didn't work)
in 83, trying to scare remaining Zeons (didn't work either)

There was one in '79 too. I'm just saying it had been held several times before and most of the forces probably would've attended. Not that it was just to "show off new ships" like you previously stated.

Benson Ver Salamis ( with hanger OUTSIDE of ship, kinda like telling the pilot "Once you leave the ship, don't bother coming back")

Is this what you're talking about? The Fuji Class?

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/ride/scrt-229.htm

About the Luna fleet, I am pretty sure that it was from moon base.
I though it was a 3 way pursue: Kimpei remaining fleet, fleet from moon, and Earth Orbital Defence Fleet. But I could be wrong, it's been a while.

Yea, I think I'm just going to end up going back and watching 0083 after the naval review and Konpei gets blown away.

1. Actually from my source, 0083 version is a little bigger than org verion:
Org L:187M W;68
0083: L:195M W:75

Orig: 288m x 68.5m x 61.3m
0083: 198m x 75m x 58m

[Source: MAHQ (http://www.mahq.net/)]

2. But then they have the Alexandria Class

The regular Federal Forces never use the Alexandria. Probably because of the stigma it carried as being a Titans ship. What ashame too...

[GP04]

Is this what you're talking about? The Fuji Class?

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/ride/scrt-229.htm


I guess I got mix up...the hanger one I was talking about is for Balls, still the Org Salamis.

And from what I know, Benson ver look exactly like reg one, but fed reduced the amount of missle it can carry to make up room to carry MS.
BUT, it can't do any repair other than minor one.



Orig: 288m x 68.5m x 61.3m
0083: 198m x 75m x 58m

[Source: MAHQ (http://www.mahq.net/)]


My source says the 288m one are the Salamis Kai( not 0083 version, Zeta version)


The regular Federal Forces never use the Alexandria. Probably because of the stigma it carried as being a Titans ship. What ashame too...
Ture, Alexandria was a great ship, but it have to bear the dirty name of Titens

[GP04]

BTW, I will go home to check out the lenth of my Salamis model to see if my source mess up.

[RedTail]

And from what I know, Benson ver look exactly like reg one, but fed reduced the amount of missle it can carry to make up room to carry MS.
BUT, it can't do any repair other than minor one.

Maybe you're getting the term Benson out of the Vinson Plan which produced a few Salamis and Magellan variations. Mainly the Salamis near the end of MSG that seem to have an internal bay. That's the only other thing I can think of...

[Gaizokubanou]

I thought F91 was pretty amazing mobile suit, considering that it allowed a total newb to score a kill without a hinch from start.

Why weren't the MP F91s fought during Victory gundam timeline? Were they outdated by then?

BTW I think the fact that feds abandoned GP03 production just shows how retarded they are when it comes to weapon development. The tops in feds must have some strange desire to produce lots of crappy MP MS.

[RedTail]

Why weren't the MP F91s fought during Victory gundam timeline? Were they outdated by then?

Gundams are typically prototypes which incorporate experimental technology into their designs. The mobile suit is tested and what features prove successful and cost effective are carried over to a mass produced line. The F91 in particular was developed under the Formula Project which had the ultimate goal creating smaller, high performance MS. This goal was met and carried over to RGM-119 Jamesgun and RGM-122 Javelin. Beam shields and shot lancers, which first saw use in the Frontier Side Conflict, were carried over to these designs as well. The F91's bio-computer, like most performance enhancing systems throughout the Universal Century, proved too expensive to mass produce.

BTW I think the fact that feds abandoned GP03 production just shows how retarded they are when it comes to weapon development. The tops in feds must have some strange desire to produce lots of crappy MP MS.

The Titans felt it was necessary to bury the GDP's existence to cover up certain portions of Stardust. Besides, Jamitov was suspicious of the program to begin with so he tried to sabotage it, and when that didn't work, had it outright suspended.

[GP04]

I thought F91 was pretty amazing mobile suit, considering that it allowed a total newb to score a kill without a hinch from start.

Why weren't the MP F91s fought during Victory gundam timeline? Were they outdated by then?


F-91 was mass produced, as in Crossbone Gundam, however, it is only for ACE.
otherwise just like Redtail said, it become back bone of Jamesgun and Javelin.



BTW I think the fact that feds abandoned GP03 production just shows how retarded they are when it comes to weapon development. The tops in feds must have some strange desire to produce lots of crappy MP MS.

Yeah, it is a shame that GP project got scapted. But hey, from Titen's point of view, delete some MS data so they could prevent the truth from leaking out. I think it is a pretty good trade.

[GP04]

Gundams are typically prototypes which incorporate experimental technology into their designs. The mobile suit is tested and what features prove successful and cost effective are carried over to a mass produced line. The F91 in particular was developed under the Formula Project which had the ultimate goal creating smaller, high performance MS. This goal was met and carried over to RGM-119 Jamesgun and RGM-122 Javelin. Beam shields and shot lancers, which first saw use in the Frontier Side Conflict, were carried over to these designs as well. The F91's bio-computer, like most performance enhancing systems throughout the Universal Century, proved too expensive to mass produce.


From what I see, all the Gundam projects are not trying to build a "prototype" instead they were trying to build a "concept" MS. In most of the Gundam Project the engineer trying to put the best tech, research, resource etc into just a few MS to see how can they get the best result, without thinking about the price. After that, if the result are good, figure out a way to mp it.
RX-78 was the best example, about every piece of new tech that fed could have was in there. that's why a single tiny screw from Gundam is worth more than a piece of gold at same weight.

[Gaizokubanou]

I never got to read the manga so I have no clue about this one, but what happened to the sentinal gundam? That thing looks BADASSED and with full transformation and etc it seemed to be quite advanced. Did the feds design that one as well?

[RedTail]

I never got to read the manga so I have no clue about this one, but what happened to the sentinal gundam? That thing looks BADASSED and with full transformation and etc it seemed to be quite advanced. Did the feds design that one as well?

Yea, Sentinel features a bunch of failed Federation prototypes sent to put down an uprising by a faction that calls themselves New Decides (who are either actually Titans or just regular Federal soldiers who sympathize with the Titans) at Pezun. I'm not really sure because I've only seen a little of it, but there is a full text-only translation out there.

[GP04]

Yea, Sentinel features a bunch of failed Federation prototypes sent to put down an uprising by a faction that calls themselves New Decides (who are either actually Titans or just regular Federal soldiers who sympathize with the Titans) at Pezun. I'm not really sure because I've only seen a little of it, but there is a full text-only translation out there.

First let me start with S Gundam:

2 reasons why S Gundam wasn't mped.

1. The Cost is too great, S Gundam lost to ZZ in bid to Fed because of the price. think about it, transform system, i-field, ALICE, and tons of other stuff. even through it performed in my opinion better than ZZ, but since Fed don't want it, AE can't produce it since there is no one else to sold to.

2. The other reason why S-Gundam was thrown out was because of its biggest strengh: ALICE system.

In design, ALICE system, once mature, will only plea its loylty to Fed. Note ONLY to Fed, it won't recongize any General's personal order. So to save their own powers within Fed, most of Fed's generals were against ALICE project. The lead scientist were even killed because of this reason.
That's why S-Gundam were never mped.

[Chavelo]

In regards to the Sentinal's Alice AI. I find it hard to believe they couldn't have simply set some parimeters or prime directives.

As for why the Federation got so weak. It's thier leadership. I have come to find that when a group's leader loses his drive the group tends to suffer overall. The Federal Assembly is made up of high ranking politicians that live on Earth. They are too busy laying around on beaches sipping drinks to bother with rebellions. So the Federal forces more often then not just end up sitting around waiting for the order to go. In fact if it weren't for the Federal Assembly choosing to place economic pressure on Zeon when it first became indepenant. The Federal Space forces could have easily put them down. I vaguely remember Degwin Zabi using some influence he had to sway polotical opinion..

Adding to that the Federal Forces were so under equipped they were forced to ever constantly overhaul ships and suits. HOWEVER, they did continue to develop new mobile suits and technology. The Strategic Naval Research Institute or SNRI is thier in house think tank made up of civilian scientists. They did test the notion of miniaturized MS when they created the Heavygun. The fact i never replaced the Jegan hints at that. Only a few years after the incidents in F91 the Jamesgun is introduced. So it's not like they weren't trying. And before people say those suits are outdated by Victory Gundam. If you take a gander at thier stats they can keep up with Zanscare models.

In regards to thier ships. The Salamis 0083 isn't a refit of the original and is smaller. Before anyone says then why don't we see it in the show?! It's retconned, so it's not likely we would. Some speculate that it wasn't intended as a stand alone ship. Instead some believe it was meant to be more of a Gunboat. It has more engines and more guns, yet is small. However it lacks fuel making it short ranged. As seen in the show when they try to catch up to the colony. The fact it has no suits wouldn't make much sense. So I believe that it may have been intended to be used at the colonies in conjunction with MS stationed there or Columbus transports refited to act as carriers for suits.

Last but not least. Why do people have so little respect for the Salamis Kai? It manages to fill it's role effectively. It's role is to deliver suits to the battlefield and give them support. Which it does thanks to it's variety of main guns, secondary guns, and missile launchers. They can even cram 6 suits in thier hangers, atleast according to Sentinal. Some 50 years later the salamis Kai still sees use in Victory. And why not? It STILL serves it's purpose. Bring suits in and giving support. Not really gunning it out with other ships. Besides the Mobile Suit is the primary weapon of the Universal Century.


I apologize for ranting, but I have little to do at the moment, and Gundam related speculation is fun for me.