Common Misconceptions

[Reichu]

After seeing a new person arrive at another forum and regurgitate an entire string of common n00bisms (with complete conviction, might I add), I felt like making a random thread for fun. What ARE the most common n00bisms or other misconceptions?

For the commentary, anyway, these are actually things that we might want to create appendix pages for early on, before we reach the relevant episodes (because that is a long way off). That way, we have a concise page to cite every time the damn thing rears its ugly head again. I could probably throw them together, with a little effort, from preexisting material, and we can always revise them later.

Anyways, here are some that I can think of offhand. (Not all n00bisms; some are just things that have been proven wrong.)

- EVA-00 has the soul of Naoko
- Misato had no sexual interest in Shinji whatsoever
- Shinji had absolutely no real interest in Asuka, or vice versa
- Someone We Know Killed Kaji
- NGE Is Religious Propaganda
- Rei and Kaworu are Actual Albinos
- Shinji Accepts Instrumentality in EoTV
- Adam and Lilith Were Once A Single Being
- The Super Solenoid/Core Confusion
- EVA-01 has nothing to do with Adam

=EoE=

- Asuka Didn't Die
- Pre-3I Instrumentality Was All In Shinji's Head
- The Adam & Eve Scenario (or, Nobody Else is Coming Back)
- Only Humans Were Complemented
- The Asuka-Rei-Misato Amalgamation

I'm sure I'm forgetting some. ^_^

[Shin-seiki]

=EoE=

- Asuka Didn't Die
You know, you only just recently mentioned (on Evamonkey's forum) that there is an unused BGM track called "Asuka's Death"; I don't know why that hasn't come up before, but having read that, for some reason I am inclined to shut up about her somehow going sploosh at the last second before she would otherwise have croaked in a more 'normal' sense...

[Quiddity]

Without a doubt the worst misconception about Eva that I can think of is the "Anno made the Eva movies as revenge" garbage. Honorable mentions are the ridiculous labelling of too many shows as Eva-ripoffs, and the notion that Eva is religiously offensive when it in fact makes no commentary whatsoever about religion.

[Shin-seiki]

Without a doubt the worst misconception about Eva that I can think of is the "Anno made the Eva movies as revenge" garbage. Hear! Hear! :thumbsup:

[Ark]

I don't see why anyone would find EoE offensive or see it as an act of revenge.

It seemed completely animesque to me.

[Reichu]

You know, you only just recently mentioned (on Evamonkey's forum) that there is an unused BGM track called "Asuka's Death"; I don't know why that hasn't come up before, but having read that, for some reason I am inclined to shut up about her somehow going sploosh at the last second before she would otherwise have croaked in a more 'normal' sense...

Well, you know, it WAS unused... I guess that's why I decided not to mention it beforehand.

Oddly, another unused BGM track is "Theme of Love". Now, I wonder what Anno wanted to use THAT for?

[.HackBackslash]

Wasn't some comment made on the Commentary for EoE that at one part (I believe it's all the souls filtering into Lillith's Egg) that those are parts of death threats that Anno got from the first Ending?

Although... AWL could simply be being an *** again.

[Immortal Tech]

Well, you know, it WAS unused... I guess that's why I decided not to mention it beforehand.

Oddly, another unused BGM track is "Theme of Love". Now, I wonder what Anno wanted to use THAT for?

So your saying, Asuka wasn't taken into instrumentality, or your just commenting that she never died in unit 02. I'm confused as to how you can say this when theres no evidence to support it.

Also i know im quite new to this, but how can you say someone we know killed Kaji when Anno himself said he was just killed by some random Government/nerv agent nobody.

[Shin-seiki]

So your saying, Asuka wasn't taken into instrumentality, or your just commenting that she never died in unit 02. I'm confused as to how you can say this when theres no evidence to support it.

Also i know im quite new to this, but how can you say someone we know killed Kaji when Anno himself said he was just killed by some random Government/nerv agent nobody.In both cases you're mis-interpreting our meaning (remember that Reichu is listing erroneous misconceptions): Asuka DID die (in EVA-02), and most certainly was included in Instrumentality; and Kaji was killed (on SEELE's orders) by some anonymous goon, NOT by any character in the show (Misato, Ritsuko, Gendo, or PenPen, to name the more popular "suspects"...)

[Reichu]

Also i know im quite new to this, but how can you say someone we know killed Kaji when Anno himself said he was just killed by some random Government/nerv agent nobody.

Dude, the list above is of COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS, not things we know. The context is important. :P

[Magami No ER]

- Rei and Kaworu are Actual Albinos

How was this disproved?

[thewayneiac]

There's a lot of people who seem to think that that's really Naoko's brain we seen in the Magi in Ep. 13. (Only if they scraped it off the floor and pressed it into a brain-shaped mould first.)

[tv33]

There's a lot of people who seem to think that that's really Naoko's brain we seen in the Magi in Ep. 13. (Only if they scraped it off the floor and pressed it into a brain-shaped mould first.)

Add to that the idea that Naoko's soul is inside the MAGI.

And I cant believe no one mentioned the idea that first impact killed off the dinosaurs yet.

[thewayneiac]

Whoops!! How could we forget this one: Keel is the Wandering Jew. Wrong, idiotic, and it perpetuates bigotry. This one could be the most obnoxious of the lot.

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

Wasn't some comment made on the Commentary for EoE that at one part (I believe it's all the souls filtering into Lillith's Egg) that those are parts of death threats that Anno got from the first Ending?
I think that at one point in EoE where a whole bunch of stuff is being flashed across the screen really fast, for a second or two a couple of e-mail threats which Anno received are displayed...I think evaotaku has an item on that...not sure whether that's what you refer to, or if it's something else.

[Animematt55]

If Naoko's soul isnt in Eva.....like I have hear a lot, who/what is? I also heard that Asuka's mother's soul is in her Eva.

[Reichu]

How was this disproved?

Real albinism has problems associated with it, such as bad vision and sensitivity to the sun. Despite their odd pigmentation that recalls albinism, Rei and Kaworu don't seem to have much to complain about.

If Naoko's soul isnt in Eva.....like I have hear a lot, who/what is?

You must not hang around here much...

http://www.animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88067

I also heard that Asuka's mother's soul is in her Eva.

Eye-firmative.

[Animematt55]

OK, I dont hang around here too much. So Eva00, has Shinji's mothers soul in it? and Asuka's has her mothers soul?
I REALLY need to watch this series again

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

Real albinism has problems associated with it, such as bad vision and sensitivity to the sun. Despite their odd pigmentation that recalls albinism, Rei and Kaworu don't seem to have much to complain about.
Though it wasn't "officially" canon, there was a Dossier item in the manga about this...it said the same thing you did (about Rei specifically, anyways), that she didn't show a lot of the signs of albinism usually found in humans. However, it also said that she was "taking medication." I don't know offhand whether that's consistent with the anime or not, though in the manga she seems to get regular injections from Ritsuko...has there ever been a discussion on what the "medication" Rei takes (if any, canon-wise) is for?

[The Eva Monkey]

Despite their odd pigmentation that recalls albinism, Rei and Kaworu don't seem to have much to complain about.If you're going to brush off the belief that they're albinos for the fact that it isn't EXPRESSLY stated, then you might as well throw out the LCL state change theory, because that is never EXPRESSLY stated either. Lets not have a double standard. One will do fine.

[Magami No ER]

Real albinism has problems associated with it, such as bad vision and sensitivity to the sun. Despite their odd pigmentation that recalls albinism, Rei and Kaworu don't seem to have much to complain about it.
But we still don't know if they really suffer much from or are not even affected by these common symptoms. Rei doesn't talk about herself personaly(or much about anything, to be really.), and we see Kaworu for a total of about 15 minutes, and we know even less about him. I don't believe this disproves that they are albinos of some form. Though they could be light in color due to some gentic similarites of their former bodies(or perhaps even their unknown eyes. ;) )

[Reichu]

I REALLY need to watch this series again

Yes. You do. ;)

Though it wasn't "officially" canon, there was a Dossier item in the manga about this...it said the same thing you did (about Rei specifically, anyways), that she didn't show a lot of the signs of albinism usually found in humans.

ALBINISM: One explanation that has been offered for the unusual appearance of the First Child, Rei Ayanami. Albinism is a genetic defect: the hereditary inability to produce the pigment melanin, which, in different combinations, is what gives human skin, eyes, and hair their different colors. Rei's blue-white hair, pale skin, and red eyes (the red color of the underlying retina) are all highly symptomatic of albinism.

Blue-white hair is "highly symptomatic of albinism", eh? :P

There has been the strong suggestion that the Children are either the product of genetic experimentation or have certain "natural genetic" characteristics.

Really? Where is that strongly implied??

If this is true, then Ayanami's presumed albinism could be either an "acceptable side effect" or "acceptable defect," considering the overall importance of her job. It is interesting to note, however, that while albinism necessarily results in sensitive eyes and skin, Ayanami appears to wear no special protection for either. She has been observed to be taking some sort of medication, however.

No mention of the vision problems albinos always have -- and Rei and Kaworu don't.

There's some interesting discussion about the "albino problem" starting here (http://forums.evamonkey.com/viewtopic.php?p=9444#9444).

As far as the medication, it is definitely there in the anime. We see some kind of pills (http://evamonkey.com/reichu/snappies/05_rei-no-heya_beaker,drugz.jpg) in episode #05 -- although they're apparently not so important that Rei actually takes them. Episode #23 (http://evamonkey.com/reichu/snappies/23_rei-no-heya_beaker,drugz.jpg), and things are exactly the same. Or are we supposed to just ignore the recycling here? ;) Rei 1 was evidently taking medication during her jolly childhood in Gehirn's basement (http://evamonkey.com/reichu/snappies/23_C293_beaker,drugz.jpg), as well.

I don't know offhand whether that's consistent with the anime or not, though in the manga she seems to get regular injections from Ritsuko...has there ever been a discussion on what the "medication" Rei takes (if any, canon-wise) is for?

No idea. In the manga, Ritsuko comments, "I'm the one that keeps your body alive." Genetic super-human, indeed. Rei doesn't seem quite as dependent on Ritsuko in the anime -- or maybe the reason Rei starts falling apart in #26' is because Ritsuko has been locked up ever since Rei #3 was pulled out of the jar. :lol:

[Magami No ER]

^Like I said before, does anyone believe that it has something to do with the lack of pigmintation in their former bodies.(Adam and Lilith with red eyes would look awesome.)

[Reichu]

^Like I said before, does anyone believe that it has something to do with the lack of pigmintation in their former bodies.(Adam and Lilith with red eyes would look awesome.)

Lilith's eyes seem to be a whole lot scarier.

http://evamonkey.com/reichu/snappies/m26_gnr-no-hitomi-1.jpg

Personally, I draw Adam and Lilith with more "normal" eyes -- albeit with red irises and black schlerae. (Though I do give Lilith the scary eyes above when she goes bousou. Adam gets pitch-black eyes when she goes on the warpath, like that lame uber-vampire-lycan in "Underworld".) Not that that means anything.

It seems possible that the "albinism" is due to what Rei and Kaworu are apparently made from -- the bodies of Lilith and Rei. Although the fact that EVA-01 has dark brown skin and green eyes seems to throw a monkey wrench into this idea...

[Hexon.Arq]

- Rei and Kaworu are Actual Albinos

How was this disproved?

It wasn't per se, but the misconcepion lies in the idea that allusions to Albinim the Disease (if you want to call it that) were intentional. Sadamoto stated that Rei was given red eyes simply to add interest to her design. Also, being that this is anime, the blue hair is not an allusion to anything in particular-- it could just as easily have been black. However, some have chosen to interpret Rei's appearance as albinism (Myself being one of them) simply for effect, and to keep some form of adherence to the anime version (Red Eyes, which deserve attention given their special emphasis as an iconic image, moreso than the hair) in a Real World visualization that seems applicable (see avatar).

The mistake is calling them Albinos as though the diagnosis has been made.

-----
EDIT
-----

I made this post after having forgotten that there was an additional page I had not yet viewed. My apologies.

But to compliment/argue with Monkey's remark that just because something isn't expressly stated doesn't make it untrue, doesn't it seem logical that an albino character would be intentionally infused with white/constanly-powder-blue hair, rather than the varying-to-cobalt hair she is provided throughout the series as well as numerous releases? (Though, this argument could be broken by reiterating my previous statement that in anime, color suggests nothing, and therefore could also just as easily have been white as it could black.) Let's not forget the fact that a special provision to maintain her light skin tone would probably have been made if she were, in fact, meant to be albino from the onset of production (which it seems is not the case, though if you want to write her occasional tanning off as more of a production flub/compromise-of-pallete than an indication of this is something I have absolutely no problem with, being that I subscribe to the albinism school anyway).

Also, I have nothing to say about Kaoru. Although they look very similar, his semblance to an albino is subtly-to-drastically stronger than Rei's.

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

Blue-white hair is "highly symptomatic of albinism", eh?
Figures that Viz had to shoot itself in the foot on this, heh. But hey, Rei's a whacked-out teenage gal after all, maybe she dyes it. ;)

Really? Where is that strongly implied??
I'd guess that they just threw that in there as "some theory or other" as to why the Children could pilot the Evas, since they hadn't revealed the "real" reason yet...

No mention of the vision problems albinos always have -- and Rei and Kaworu don't.
Hey, you never know: heck, maybe that's the REAL reason that Rei swiped Gendo's old pair of glasses! :D

No idea. In the manga, Ritsuko comments, "I'm the one that keeps your body alive." Genetic super-human, indeed.
I'd be interested in having someone with some kind of chemical/pharmaceutical background look at the medicine labels in the screenshots of Rei's meds, to see if s/he could make out any of the stuff she's taking, and what it's generally used for...

[Quiddity]

Wasn't some comment made on the Commentary for EoE that at one part (I believe it's all the souls filtering into Lillith's Egg) that those are parts of death threats that Anno got from the first Ending?

Although... AWL could simply be being an *** again.

Yes, thats right. But death threats and angry letters flashing on the screen for half a second(particularly in a movie that spastically flashes random things at us so often) doesn't equal "Anno made the movies as revenge on the ungrateful fans!!!!!!" no matter how many times idiots like Amanda Winn want to say it :P So unfortunate that the ridiculous EOE commentary track, rather than giving us lots of useful information is utter nonsense from AWL like "the true meaning of Eva is sex" and "there's no japanese word for 'I'"(i can think of 5 off the top of my head)

Another misconception that comes to mind is the 'Barons of Hell' thing that was made up by Eva fans to add yet another reference in there.

[Magami No ER]

Reichu, dear God, how could you forget this one?:
After giving us multiple hints in earlier episodes and finally outright telling us in ep. 23 three, people still think EVAS ARE ROBOTS!

[Hexon.Arq]

After giving us multiple hints in earlier episodes and finally outright telling us in ep. 23 three, people still think EVAS ARE ROBOTS!

If they actually have watched the show, then this doesn't apply as a misconception, as it is impossible to have it.

And as for the "Barons of Hell" thing, it's true that there has been no evidence to back the misconception/theory, but a part of me does recall something similar from a time before I had even heard of Eva. It's very possible that the Barons were fabricated by overzealous fans, but I'd rather wait for absolute disproof than relent to the lack of its opposite.

[Reichu]

If they actually have watched the show, then this doesn't apply as a misconception, as it is impossible to have it.

People have seen the entire show and still called the Evas robots. I have no idea HOW, but it happens.

And as for the "Barons of Hell" thing, it's true that there has been no evidence to back the misconception/theory, but a part of me does recall something similar from a time before I had even heard of Eva. It's very possible that the Barons were fabricated by overzealous fans, but I'd rather wait for absolute disproof than relent to the lack of its opposite.

In the circumstances that it is complete ********, "absolute disproof" might be hard to find. The burden of proof is on those who promote the theory.

[Hexon.Arq]

In the circumstances that it is complete ********, "absolute disproof" might be hard to find. The burden of proof is on those who promote the theory.

Then, like the Luciferian Fall, let's hang on to it for ***** and giggles.

[Reichu]

Personally, I would have preferred to send them down the toilet with the rest of the offal... Wouldn't hurt to throw the "nails-through-the-palms" bit into the bowl, as well.

Of course, all attempts to flush them away just make the toilet back up...

[Mr. Tines]

There has been the strong suggestion that the Children are either the product of genetic experimentation or have certain "natural genetic" characteristics.

Really? Where is that strongly implied??

As for experimentation, the evidence is not there for them all to have been

Rei - manufactured
Asuka - suggestions in the manga that she is the result of an eugenics program (I was only half joking in this post here (http://www.animenation.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4331259&postcount=11).)
Shinji - unknown. But Gendou was involved
Touji - unlikely
Kaoru - manufactured

as for common factor - well there are probably more orphans than just class 2-A : what else are NERV filtering on?

As far as the medication, it is definitely there in the anime. We see some kind of pills (http://evamonkey.com/reichu/snappies/05_rei-no-heya_beaker,drugz.jpg) in episode #05 -- although they're apparently not so important that Rei actually takes them. Episode #23 (http://evamonkey.com/reichu/snappies/23_rei-no-heya_beaker,drugz.jpg), and things are exactly the same. Or are we supposed to just ignore the recycling here? ;) Rei 1 was evidently taking medication during her jolly childhood in Gehirn's basement (http://evamonkey.com/reichu/snappies/23_C293_beaker,drugz.jpg), as well.

Given that we only see characters undergoing routine maintenance when there is a separate point to the scene, and because Rei is also meant to be mysterious, I think the answer to that question is meant to be "Yes".

[Mr. Tines]

And as for the "Barons of Hell" thing, it's true that there has been no evidence to back the misconception/theory, but a part of me does recall something similar from a time before I had even heard of Eva. It's very possible that the Barons were fabricated by overzealous fans, but I'd rather wait for absolute disproof than relent to the lack of its opposite.

I wonder if this "misconception" might not be the malign influence of Neon Exodus Evangelion - it was written at an early enough date, and uses that motif.

[Reichu]

Asuka - suggestions in the manga that she is the result of an eugenics program

That's only in the manga, though. Kyoko actually married Langley in the anime, as opposed to just using his sperm.

Shinji - unknown. But Gendou was involved

Well, yeah... SOMEone needed to sire the little bastard. But if Shinji is the result of anything but classic impregnation techniques, I'll cry.

as for common factor - well there are probably more orphans than just class 2-A : what else are NERV filtering on?

Whomever's mom they could store in a jar?

[Soluzar]

Well, yeah... SOMEone needed to sire the little bastard. But if Shinji is the result of anything but classic impregnation techniques, I'll cry.


Classic impregnation techniques...? Sounds like a phrase from the sort of cold-blooded pick-up line that one imagines Rokobungi-san might have employed... :)

"Yui? Would you care to join me in practicing classic impregnation techniques?"
:lol:

He doesn't strike me as a chap with much of a gift for romance. ;)

[ProfessorSmooth]

I wonder if this "misconception" might not be the malign influence of Neon Exodus Evangelion - it was written at an early enough date, and uses that motif.

What's Neon Exodus Evangelion?

[NeonZ]

What's Neon Exodus Evangelion?

An old, boring, bad Eva fanfiction which is nothing like Eva.

Watch in awe as D.J Croft(Son of Lara Croft and Fox Mulder) warps everyone's personality, names, and EVEN locations(Worchester-3?), hits higher synch rates with Eva-01 than Shinji, erases Shinji out of the story during most of the fic, miss the most obvious points of Evangelion, fixes everyone's lives, uses his super laptop to hack Magi and single handely defeats MiBs, Angels and Aliens!!!

And there's this other guy. He's special.

[Reichu]

Wow. Neon Exodus Evangelion actually sounds like it has (had?) a lot of comedic potential. ...Then, most fanfics with pretentions of seriousness do.

"Yui? Would you care to join me in practicing classic impregnation techniques?"

:lol: That one's going into my sig!

[NeonZ]

Wow. Neon Exodus Evangelion actually sounds like it has (had?) a lot of comedic potential. ...Then, most fanfics with pretentions of seriousness do.

It is sort of funny, but the overly long descriptions many times make it just a boring reading. There's a description of Rei turning the page of a book which fills a full page, and very long descriptions of the new furniture that D.J Croft and friends bought for Rei...

[Hexon.Arq]

Wouldn't hurt to throw the "nails-through-the-palms" bit into the bowl, as well.

Okay, you've go me. What the **** are you talking about, now?

[Mr. Tines]

Wow. Neon Exodus Evangelion actually sounds like it has (had?) a lot of comedic potential. ...Then, most fanfics with pretentions of seriousness do.

Indeed it does - some intentional (and enough to make me chuckle), some alas not.

For the morbidly curious, the original is at http://www.eyrie.net/NXE/ and the first third is MiSTed remorselessly at http://svamcentral.org/svam/ms-inf.html

[Gundampilotspaz]

- Adam and Lilith Were Once A Single Being



This is the fault of manga and I don't think really should be put agenists any n00bs who think it was fact. I for one believed manga's lies before people on this fourm set me stright. Though I never thought before EOE that they were a single being, and looking at it from all angles now it makes absolutely no sence, DAMN YOU MANGA!




- Shinji Accepts Instrumentality in EoTV


This is another misconception that is really forgiven. After sitting though 45 minutes of mind rape you begin to lose it. And the misunderstanding of Instrumentality in the first place leads to this. Put it seems as if, in the TV series, that the goal of insermentality was to alloy Shinji to break free of Instrumentality , and I believe that is where the misconception comes from. They don't realize that Shinji is in instermentality before he chooses to return to the real world.

Shinji comes to his desision to return to the physical world after everyones minds are one and he is tetering between the two because of the Evangelion. The problem with Shinji being the subject is that we really don;t know how everyone else was effected. (I feel a debate starting. )

Shinji was inside the Entry plug at the time and because of that I believe he has a better chance, a more effective view of insermentality. Where everyone elses soul was pushed together and pure bliss was attened, he was experancing it though the Evangelion and his soul was not in direct contact with the rest the souls.


http://www.juzzam.com/EoEpix/WorldWithoutBoundaries2.JPG

On top of the Evangelion that makes Shinji different from the rest is the cross, and his connection to Rei. The second is most likely less important, because Rei could of faced everyone, but it was the cross that really made a difference.

Shinji:
Ayanami... where are we?

Rei:
This is the sea of LCL... The primordial soup of life.
A world without AT Fields... without your own shape.
An ambiguous world where it is impossible to tell where you end and other people start.
A fragile world where you exist everywhere, and thus exist nowhere.

Shinji:
Have I died?

Rei:
No, everything has just been joined into one.
This is the world you have been hoping for... your world.

Shinji (releasing Misato's cross from his left hand):
But... this isn't right. I don't think this is right.

Rei:
If you wish once more for the existence of others, the barriers of the heart will separate everyone once more... And the fear of other people will begin again.

Shinji:
That's all right...
(disengages Rei from him and clasps her hand)
Thank you.

Shinji is different because of his emotional state, his connection to Rei and Kaworu, and the Evangelion. His instermentality was more like a long intervention, and we really don't know what everyone elses experence was like.


In other words I'm defending people how are ignorent of what Instermentaliy was because of Shinji's own experence with it.

[Ironfoot]

Hmmm, off of the top of my head:

-Toji not only loses his leg, but his arm as well
-EVA's are only robots
-The angels are after Lilith

Can't think of anything else...too hungry....

[Keisuke-kun]

-AWL actually know what shes talking about

^sadly I once thought so...

[longinus]

So I was just thinking what would happen if we put Anno (creator/inspiration of Eva) and Sigmund Freud in the same room.

I think Freud's head would explode in just trying to analyse the messed up mind of Anno. I know my head hurt when i tried to figure out what the hell happened at the end of eva.

Actually, that makes me think whether even Anno really knows what the whole thing means or whether the show (or perhaps more the ending) doesnt really mean anything and is an accidental product of partial insanity? :P

Any philosophers out there?

[Reichu]

Okay, you've go me. What the **** are you talking about, now?

"Passion of the Christ", NGE, and centuries of Christian art depict crucifiction inaccurately. The nails were driven into the wrist (and against the median nerve to achieve mucho pain) so that it was secured between the radius, ulna, and carpal bones and able to support the body's weight -- something the palms cannot do.

This is the fault of manga and I don't think really should be put agenists any n00bs who think it was fact. I for one believed manga's lies before people on this fourm set me stright. Though I never thought before EOE that they were a single being, and looking at it from all angles now it makes absolutely no sence, DAMN YOU MANGA!

Um... Manga is responsible for the giving the impression that Adam was born from Lilith, which isn't quite the same as suggesting that they were once a single uber-being that fissioned as a result of 1st Impact. The idea seems to have originated as a result of Adam and Lilith combining so harmoniously, and, temporarily, being portrayed as a dyad deity. Or something like that...

And I'm not following your logic... How are you advocating Misato's cross was important?

-The angels are after Lilith

Actually, I tend to think "who the hell are the Angels after?" is just one of those plot holes that can't be remedied no matter how many elaborate theories one tries to conjure. They are motivated by the plot. That is all we need to know.

[Gundampilotspaz]

And I'm not following your logic... How are you advocating Misato's cross was important?




Rei:
No, everything has just been joined into one.
This is the world you have been hoping for... your world.

Shinji (releasing Misato's cross from his left hand):
But... this isn't right. I don't think this is right.

Misato's cross became his link to the real world and in that instance he knew that if he completely joined instermentality then Misato doesn't exsist, and her sacrafice was in vain. He wasn't completely instermentalisd (??) at that point because of the way the scene was set up. The were at the cross road, the point of no return. Rei closer to the moon, God and the union of all living things, and Shinji was closer to earth and the physical world. Shinji is at this cross road because of what he learned during the theater scene, and then this became the final desision.


But even after Shinji still had to go though more before he could leave.


Even after he made the desision in that scene

I feel that there were only hateful things there.

In Shinji's life he has only known loneiness and betrayal. Because of this reality seems harsh. The real world seems like its not worth living in.

So I'm sure it was okay to run away.

Because the real world was full of pain he believed that he could escape into dreams and fantasies. Into a world constructed for himself only, and thus was perfect.

But there was nothing good in the place I ran to, either.

After all, I didn't exist there... which is the same as no one existing.

The simple fact that Shinji has come to realize is that no matter what he does to escape in his dreams and fantasies, he really can't escape, he can't hide forever. Because the person in his dreams wasn't truely him, then the people and events that he would create were just as false.

As he is saying this, as this is coming over him and he is begining to break free and return he is holding the cross, that becomes his link to reality. And it really was Misato early in the series that brought him out of his fantasies and helped him to live life, make firends, ect. So it is proper that the cross would symbolize Shinji's connection with reality.

[Hexon.Arq]

"Passion of the Christ", NGE, and centuries of Christian art depict crucifiction inaccurately. The nails were driven into the wrist (and against the median nerve to achieve mucho pain) so that it was secured between the radius, ulna, and carpal bones and able to support the body's weight -- something the palms cannot do.

Ah, I see. I thought you were going to attempt to explain why Yui getting the lances through the hands was in no way an allusion to a cruci-fiction. I came this close to forever ignoring you.

[Hexon.Arq]

It really makes you wonder about how specta/crapta-cular the ending might have been had the network not prompted SEGA to pull its funding.

[Magami No ER]

There was something posted here a while back concering the script the original ending. It had Shinji talking to an angel in one episode, angels coming from the moon and vaporizing America, and in the very end everything was resolved. Edit: Here it is (http://www.animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154126&48hightlight=America),(last page) don't really know if it's what made SEGA pull the funding but personaly I'm glad they did.

[Reichu]

If memory serves, it was the whole "Eva getting too much for its target age group" that make Sega pull the funding. You know, all the blood, gore, sex, and drugs that started showing up in the second half. (Well, okay... No drugs, but they might have well have thrown some in, really.) That stuff is standard fare for anime, but apparently it was too much for something that played right after Ninja Turtles. Quiddity probably knows more about this than I; ask him.

The scenarios posted on that page are actually from a conceptual version of NGE. Gainax apparently made a pamphlet up (the pages of which are published, after heavy shrinkage, in Newtype 100% Collection), featuring the basic details of their proposed show, and shipped it around to attract sponsors. That many things changed afterward is just the result of creative evolution, not the sort of "desparate improvisation" that birthed EoTV.

[Hexon.Arq]

The exact moment of objection was the mutilation of Eva-03. That killed the last two episodes.

[Reichu]

Which is odd, considering it really wasn't THAT bad. All of the really fun stuff (except the skull-bashing, anyhow) was off-screen.

[Keisuke-kun]

If you slow it down you can see the flying eye...

BTW Reichu did you see my post about the Film books?

[Reichu]

And a flying jaw with a tongue attached to it.

Yes, I did. :D You da man.

[Magami No ER]

I've seen that in anime before Eva's creation, never heard any controversy. At least they were able to tell that Eva's just might be a smidge different from robots(Ever see a robotic tongue?...hope not O_o.) Eva just makes everything that probably couldn't exist look and feel real.

[Keisuke-kun]

And a flying jaw with a tongue attached to it.

Yes, I did. :D You da man.

Oh ok good ^_^

[Hexon.Arq]

I've seen that in anime before Eva's creation, never heard any controversy.

Cite an example. You probably saw either a movie, an OVA, or something that aired later at night.

Come to think of it, wasn't Eva rescheduled due to content? Does anyone know at what point in the series this took place?

[Magami No ER]

Woah, you're right. Most titles I have seen that depicted similar violence etheir came out after Evangelion(after checking the dates) or were Ovas. I had no idea Usiho and Tora or Devil hunter Yoko(though it wasn't terribly violent) was an Ova. I guess it's harder to tell here because most anime is bought in stores.(I'm guessing Hellsing, which did its fair share of face ripping, came on quite late in Japan?)

[Hexon.Arq]

Yes, the current conditions under which we view can make things a little confusing. With regard to most of the titles I see mentioned, I'm clueless as to whether they are series...-es, OVAs, or movies. I'm tempted to prompt people to stop reffering to this stuff as "anime" and just call movies movies, shows shows, and OVAs... well, you get it.

[Goldarmy]

After giving us multiple hints in earlier episodes and finally outright telling us in ep. 23 three, people still think EVAS ARE ROBOTS!
A Winner is You!

Keel is the Wandering Jew.
The Second Runner

Only Humans Were Complemented
How is this disproved beside the rants of old men?


Wow. Neon Exodus Evangelion actually sounds like it has (had?) a lot of comedic potential. ...Then, most fanfics with pretentions of seriousness do.
Any work of fiction with pretentions of seriousness has comedic potential, as Fist of the North Star can testify, it is unfair to put it just on fanfiction.

By the way does the X-com aspect of the Neon Exodus Evangelion goes any further than a new Eva Unit with X-com tattoo on it? Or more precisely was the Alien War told in just one sentence reference?

[koinosuke]

Without a doubt the worst misconception about Eva that I can think of is the "Anno made the Eva movies as revenge" garbage.
Kanpai, good fellow! :cheers:

[Magami No ER]

A Winner is You!

I fell so special. :P But, I'm sad to say, even Anno called them "mechs" or evan "mecha"at one point.
From the cd cover booklet of the original Evangelion OST:
The Pleasant Sensation of Making A Film.
"Is Evangelion's mecha better than Gundam?"

[Reichu]

Much as I hate the Evas being referred to as "mecha", there is apparently not much that can be done about it. I don't even bother arguing anymore. Now, "robot" -- that is the true enemy #1.

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

This is a really minor one, but I don't think anyone has mentioned it (perhaps for good reason, heh)...I'm sure that at least a few watchers who weren't paying attention think that Ritsuko is a natural blonde...or is that one too obvious to mention?

[Devilsbane]

"Passion of the Christ", NGE, and centuries of Christian art depict crucifiction inaccurately. The nails were driven into the wrist (and against the median nerve to achieve mucho pain) so that it was secured between the radius, ulna, and carpal bones and able to support the body's weight -- something the palms cannot do.

Christ's crucifixion was not the usual Roman crucifixion. In a regular crucifixion a person could take short breaths by pushing down with their legs and pulling up by the wrists (an extremely painful exercise). The soldiers hammered the nails in Christ's palms to disallow Christ to breath in that way. The evidence is made apparent when a spear is forced into Christ's ribs. The fluid (water) that accumulated in the pulmonary sac was released.

There I made the correction. I was talking about his ribs. Since our ribs extend around to the side that should be the proper term.

[Reichu]

Christ's crucifixion was not the usual Roman crucifixion. In a regular crucifixion a person could take short breaths by pushing down with their legs and pulling up by the wrists (an extremely painful exercise).

Yeah, and if they stayed alive for too long doing this, the soldiers broke the criminals' kneecaps.

The soldiers hammered the nails in Christ's palms to disallow Christ to breath in that way. The evidence is made apparent when a spear is forced into Christ's chest. The fluid (water) that accumulated in the pulmonary sac was released.

And they have this on video tape or something? When something like this is only recorded, what, at least a century after the death of the person in question, what counts as "evidence"? From what little I know, at least, the nails-in-the-palms bit is a well-popularized fallacy, but Gibson used it in his movie anyway so that people wouldn't get distracted by seeing crucifiction done the right way.

Incidentally, the shroud (http://www.shroud.com/) believed by some to have belonged to the Big J has the nails going through the wrists.

[kalisaris]

This is a really minor one, but I don't think anyone has mentioned it (perhaps for good reason, heh)...I'm sure that at least a few watchers who weren't paying attention think that Ritsuko is a natural blonde...or is that one too obvious to mention?

That would be strange, because even if they haven't seen young Ritsuko, her black eyebrows state that she's not a natural blonde (unless she dyed them, heh).

BTW, in the opening, Ritsuko apears once with blonde eyebrows. Why is that? :blink:

[Magami No ER]

http://img139.exs.cx/img139/9136/eyebrow1hk.jpg
OMG, I've never noticed that before. I'd call it a coloration error. I believe in her profile pic, which is also in the OP, she has dark eyebrows.

[AchtungAffen]

1) Gauf room closed after 2I and as a punishment from God all kids born from there on had no souls
2) Katsuragi Hakase theory is called the "Superceluloid theory"
3) Rei was born on Sept 14 2001.

(I'll bring back more next time)

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

That would be strange, because even if they haven't seen young Ritsuko, her black eyebrows state that she's not a natural blonde
Hmm...maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention, but I was just kinda under the impression that most anime character designers gave their characters plain black eyebrows just to be done with it, heh. The goof in the OP is interesting though, perhaps that ought to go someplace in the OP Commentary, Reichu?

Christ's crucifixion was not the usual Roman crucifixion. In a regular crucifixion a person could take short breaths by pushing down with their legs and pulling up by the wrists (an extremely painful exercise).
The Biblical record seems to suggest that Christ was impaled through the wrists, in the manner you mention above...as Reichu said, if they wanted you dead faster they would break your legs and suffocate you, here's the related passage:

Then the Jews, seeing as it was Preparation, in order that the bodies might not remain upon the torture stakes on the Sabbath (for the day of that Sabbath was a great one), requested Pilate to have their legs broken and the bodies taken away. The soldiers came, therefore, and broke the legs of the first man and those of the other man that had been impaled with him. But on coming to Jesus, as they saw he was already dead, they did not break his legs. -John 19:31-33

Verse 34 of that chapter does make reference to Jesus being jabbed with the spear (apparently to make sure he was dead) and the "blood and water" coming out from the wound, but according to the account he was jabbed in the side, not through the chest...I don't know much about anatomy, so I wouldn't be able to tell you specifically what organs they mighta poked or what "should have" emerged upon doing so. In addition, I use the words "torture stake" instead of "cross," since to the best of my knowledge that's a more accurate translation of the original Greek, which suggests a single upright pole instead of a cross...that's a whole other debate, though, and perhaps one best suited to elsewhere than an anime forum, heh.

When something like this is only recorded, what, at least a century after the death of the person in question, what counts as "evidence"?
I don't think the Gospels were written quite so long after the incident...I don't think any of their writers would have still been alive at that point. As far as I know, the four were completed somewhere around 41 C.E. (Matthew), 60-65 C.E. (Mark), 56-58 C.E. (Luke) and 98 C.E. (John). In case anyone's wondering, I use the term "C.E." (Common Era) instead of "A.D." because it's a bit more accurate in terms of timekeeping: "A.D." factors in a "year zero" which never existed, since the year 1 C.E. came directlay after 1 B.C.E. Just a bit of semi-pointless trivia, heh.

[Reichu]

Hmm...maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention, but I was just kinda under the impression that most anime character designers gave their characters plain black eyebrows just to be done with it, heh.

In NGE, anyway, Asuka and Rei seem to be drawn with red and blue eyebrows (respectively) more often than not.

The goof in the OP is interesting though, perhaps that ought to go someplace in the OP Commentary, Reichu?

But of course.

The Biblical record seems to suggest that Christ was impaled through the wrists, in the manner you mention above...

Perhaps J was simply too tired at the end of that long day to be bothered with the "keeping yourself alive on the rack long enough to piss the Romans off" tactic?

Verse 34 of that chapter does make reference to Jesus being jabbed with the spear (apparently to make sure he was dead) and the "blood and water" coming out from the wound, but according to the account he was jabbed in the side, not through the chest... I don't know much about anatomy, so I wouldn't be able to tell you specifically what organs they mighta poked or what "should have" emerged upon doing so.

Guess it depends on what part of his side they poked. Probably did breach one of the lungs, though.

In case anyone's wondering, I use the term "C.E." (Common Era) instead of "A.D." because it's a bit more accurate in terms of timekeeping: "A.D." factors in a "year zero" which never existed, since the year 1 C.E. came directlay after 1 B.C.E. Just a bit of semi-pointless trivia, heh.

So... it's currently 2004 C.E., then?

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

Perhaps J was simply too tired at the end of that long day to be bothered with the "keeping yourself alive on the rack long enough to piss the Romans off" tactic?
Well, he HAD been arrested in the middle of the night, tried illegally (and beaten during that time), passed back and forth between Pilate and Herod, and scourged (a process which, IIRC, could kill someone by itself), without being allowed any sleep the whole time...IIRC he wasn't able to carry his own torture stake to Golgotha, he was too spent by then.

So... it's currently 2004 C.E., then?
Probably something like that, heh.

[Reichu]

and scourged (a process which, IIRC, could kill someone by itself),

Yet strangely, some people pay to have women in black leather do it to them...

IIRC he wasn't able to carry his own torture stake to Golgotha, he was too spent by then.

Hmm, that Simon guy, right? (Wow, did I actually learn something from watching Mel's movie?)

Anyway, about the "water and blood", I just did a quick Google and found this (http://www.chrisloanshome.8m.com/Church/topics/crucifiction.htm):

Apparently to make doubly sure of death, the legionnaire drove his lance
through the fifth interspace between the ribs, upward through the
pericardium and into the heart. The 34th verse of the 19th chapter of the
Gospel according to John: And immediately there came out blood and water.
Thus there was an escape of watery fluid from the sac surrounding the
heart and blood from the interior of the heart. We, therefore, have
rather conclusive post-mortem evidence that Our Lord died, not the usual
crucifixion death by suffocation, but of heart failure due to shock and
constriction of the heart by fluid in the pericardium.

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

Yet strangely, some people pay to have women in black leather do it to them...
Heh, this was a tad different though...apparently a "scourge" back then was a whip "modified" to be especially nasty: IIRC they attached stuff like iron balls and sharp pieces of bone to it, so that it would really tear you up when the guy hit you. You mighta already known that, and were just being facetious in your comment, but I figured I might as well mention it...

As for the web item you found, again, I'm no medical expert, but judging by what you say here I guess it's a possibility, since the Gospels (AFAIK) don't really elaborate on this, if this sort of thing was even medical knowledge back then (unlike the editorial thing posted sometime back)...either way, methinks the death process was less than pleasant.

[Reichu]

You mighta already known that, and were just being facetious in your comment, but I figured I might as well mention it...

You should know me better than that by now! ;) Oh, yes... I found some very (http://www.talkaboutrecovery.com/group/alt.recovery.catholicism/messages/184413.html) interesting things when looking for alternative opinions of that life-enrichening :rolleyes: movie.

[Magami No ER]

Everytime I think of that movie, I feel nervous, not because of the movie, but when every girl (except for me and a good friend of mine)and some of the boys were crying and gaging at every section of his torture, which scares me a little;and the crow scene, forget about it. :| (I still say if yer rib is visible on yer chest, you should be out cold. Period.) I realize I had a choice in not viewing it, but, well...peer-pressure is a force impended on my mind, and I couldn't help it. Not to further drag this off topic: Could we somehow put all the misconceptions together, in a list?^^

[Reichu]

I had a choice in not viewing it, but, well...peer-pressure is a force impended on my mind, and I couldn't help it.

And then there are people like me, who just watch it so that we can wear the T-Shirt, "I survived 'The Passion of the Christ'!" Naw, it was more morbid curiosity. Not to mention the South Park episode "The Passion of the Jew" made a LOT more sense afterwards.

Not to further drag this off topic: Could we somehow put all the misconceptions together, in a list?^^

They'll probably have their own giant appendix in the Commentary dedicated to them eventually. Note the "eventually". ;)

[Devilsbane]

Yeah, and if they stayed alive for too long doing this, the soldiers broke the criminals' kneecaps.

They break the lower part of the legs. Since that is the only part of the body that can be reached without a spear.

And they have this on video tape or something? When something like this is only recorded, what, at least a century after the death of the person in question, what counts as "evidence"? From what little I know, at least, the nails-in-the-palms bit is a well-popularized fallacy, but Gibson used it in his movie anyway so that people wouldn't get distracted by seeing crucifiction done the right way.

Like the Nazis the Romans recorded their brutal acts.
Gibson’s movie was based on Ellen G White’s vision. It is not formally acknowledged because of copyright infringement. http://www.whiteestate.org/books/da/da_lasthours.html


Incidentally, the shroud (http://www.shroud.com/) believed by some to have belonged to the Big J has the nails going through the wrists.

The shroud only shows one wrist. :P

If you wish to continue that discussion, let’s continue in another thread.

[Devilsbane]

In case anyone's wondering, I use the term "C.E." (Common Era) instead of "A.D." because it's a bit more accurate in terms of timekeeping: "A.D." factors in a "year zero" which never existed, since the year 1 C.E. came directlay after 1 B.C.E. Just a bit of semi-pointless trivia, heh.

What so "common" about it? A whole country believes it is the year 5765!

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

Heh, I'm not sure where that label came from, truth be told, I just tend to use it automatically whenever stuff like this comes up, just for accuracy's sake (at least compared with the Gregorian calendar, anyways)...

[Reichu]

Heh, I'm not sure where that label came from, truth be told, I just tend to use it automatically whenever stuff like this comes up, just for accuracy's sake (at least compared with the Gregorian calendar, anyways)...

Eh, forget about Gregorian. From now on, let's date everything by Shire Reckoning.

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

Or maybe "Stardate," a la Captain Kirk.

[Magami No ER]

^That'd be fun to remember whilist putting the date on tests. :eek:

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

It'd be a lot more fun though. The teacher hands out the tests, a few students start scribbling stuff down, then from out of the corner of the room, a lone voice:

"Stardate, 84665: I have encountered what appears to be some sort of bizarre two-dimensional measurement of my personal merit. While such a concept is quite foreign to me, since I am merely an interloper within this realm I have little choice but to oblige its every demand. Nearby I've discovered what appears to be a slender carbon-based object with a graphite core...how the two objects may be related is still under analysis..."

For even greater effect bring along a tape recorder and play dramatic music in the background as you say that.

[Magami No ER]

I like it O_O

[Mr. Tines]

Browsing some older threads last night I came across one misconception that is possibly held more widely than it might be enunciated. How shall I put this tactfully? It's the assumption that Shinji must have found some hand lotion in Asuka's hospital room.

While it is quite likely there would be some antibacterial cleanser as part of the general hygeine routine of the hospital, the actual fact of the matter is that, unless post-2I Japan followed the USAn custom of ritual infant genital mutilation, such artifice would not be needed.

---

In the wider world of NGE fandom, there does seem to be a common assumption that if you're a fan of a particilar pilot, that must also mean you are also a shipper for Shinji/that pilot. Well, mainly this is assumed true for fans of Auska and Rei, and perhaps Kaworu. Touji fans are possibly below the general radar (though this page (http://www.caskalangley.net/brokens/italiano/t_shippers.htm) possibly has possibly the best comment on that issue).

Of course it's not clear that even a Shinji fan could be completely free of this preconception, given the obvious scary shot from 26' (http://evamonkey.com/reichu/snappies/m26_C380e.jpg), let alone Woody Allen's comment on Shinji's activity in 25'. :naughty:

[Reichu]

I remember one guy who put forth the "theory" that Shinji just sneezed a really goobery one in Asuka's hospital room.

As for that page you mention -- it would help if I knew a drop of Italian. Show-off. ;)

[Mr. Tines]

I remember one guy who put forth the "theory" that Shinji just sneezed a really goobery one in Asuka's hospital room.

Hand lotion, as in the circumcised male needing something to lubricate his membrum virile during the activity of self stimulation, in a manner that the intact find superfluous.

The context is in posts 3 and 4 of this thread (http://www.animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=111252)

As for that page you mention -- it would help if I knew a drop of Italian. Show-off. ;)

A basic background of French or Latin (which is all I'm working with - but probably the equivalent in any other Romance language would do) should suffice to translate the substance of "risata generale" given the context.

The key word shares the same Latin root as the English "risible".

[Ark]

The biggest misconception in my opinion is that the final scene of Eoe has no biblical symbolism.

[Reichu]

I thought the major misconception there was that it DID. The world is not going to be repopulated by Asuka and Shinji alone (heaven forbid). If you've got some three billion people sitting around in the Ooze, and any one of them has the ability to return, that puts quite a damper on the "Adam and Eve" nonsense. Any resemblance is as shallow as those silly cross-shaped explosions and hardly "symbolic" or thematically significant of anything. (You want religious symbols with more substance, look at the Tree of Life.)

[Mr. Tines]

The world is not going to be repopulated by Asuka and Shinji alone (heaven forbid).

And even if it were, every culture's origin myth has a primal couple.

In the context, they would be more likely to be interpreted as Izanagi and Izanami.

Izanami is actually quite interesting in this context, as she combines in the one figure the aspects of both Lilith and Eve in the more common Western mythology.

[Ark]

Any resemblance is as shallow as those silly cross-shaped explosions and hardly "symbolic" or thematically significant of anything. (You want religious symbols with more substance, look at the Tree of Life.)

How can you say that?

Its so blatant.

Even if EVA was not overtly referencing judeo-christian themes I still couldn't understand how anyone could miss the symbolism.

[Ark]

And even if it were, every culture's origin myth has a primal couple.

In the context, they would be more likely to be interpreted as Izanagi and Izanami.


Yes, but EVA focuses on Judaism/Kaballah and christianity.

[Mr. Tines]

Yes, but EVA focuses on Judaism/Kaballah and christianity.

Admittedly my own initial thoughts on viewing (inevitably, due to the culture of my upbringing) did fly to Judeo-Christian themes, but that was to verbalise the place as Anti-Eden, at the other end of Creation, a setting more reminiscent of the Vestibule of Hell in Dante's Divine Comedy than the Garden at the summit of Mt. Purgatory, and that the two pilots were embodied in post-mortal, quasi-angelic perfected forms.

In that context, Asuka's final words I translated to echo those of Mephistopheles in Marlowe's Dr Faustus - "Why, this is Hell, nor am I out of it."

[Ark]

Admittedly my own initial thoughts on viewing (inevitably, due to the culture of my upbringing) did fly to Judeo-Christian themes, but that was to verbalise the place as Anti-Eden, at the other end of Creation, a setting more reminiscent of the Vestibule of Hell in Dante's Divine Comedy than the Garden at the summit of Mt. Purgatory, and that the two pilots were embodied in post-mortal, quasi-angelic perfected forms.

In that context, Asuka's final words I translated to echo those of Mephistopheles in Marlowe's Dr Faustus - "Why, this is Hell, nor am I out of it."

I think that in Eoe you have religious and scientific themes running parallel together.

Instrumentality is like the "primordial soup" scientifically but religiously its like Eden because its a world without sin and pain.

In the final scenes Shinji emerges from the sea reflecting the evolution theory but a woman is also provided for him as in judeo-christian belief.

[AchtungAffen]

That misconception about the end of EOE, where the children "represent" Adam, Eva and Lillith, comes (as I believe) from a well known misinformation eva website which said that this was said by Anno in some kind of interview.

[Ark]

That misconception about the end of EOE, where the children "represent" Adam, Eva and Lillith, comes (as I believe) from a well known misinformation eva website which said that this was said by Anno in some kind of interview.

I came to the conclusion just by viewing the film.

And I don't believe they literally represent any religious figures.

[Reichu]

and that the two pilots were embodied in post-mortal, quasi-angelic perfected forms.

^ I hope you don't believe that anymore... :uhoh:

Aren't Izanami and Izanagi siblings? I believe I remember reading that somewhere... So the entire nation of Japan is the product of incest. (Then again, if you start out with only two of anything, incest is pretty inevitable.)

And, Ark, Shinji and Asuka are no longer in Instrumentality, so no "Eden" parallel can be drawn. The only similarity I see is that we have a guy, and we have a girl, all alone as far as the eye can see. Pretty loose, if you ask me...

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

Aren't Izanami and Izanagi siblings?
I do have a book of Japanese mythology someplace which has that story in there somewhere, I could check to find out where the two of them came from...the thing I personally remember most about that story, though, is when 'gi (that was the guy, right?) went to the underworld to look for 'mi, and when he looked upin her face against her wishes she got really po'ed at him and swore that she would do her utmost to destroy every person he would bring into existence...sort of a big bicket of cold water thrown on top of the story, heh.

[Mr. Tines]

^ I hope you don't believe that anymore... :uhoh:

No, I don't. It's one of those "but, still, wouldn't it be nice if..." things, though

Aren't Izanami and Izanagi siblings?

They are stated to be such, in the few sources I have that don't start with the pair about to descend to Earth. But they are so close to the original spontaneous generation of divinities that their parentage is obscure.

[Ark]

^ I hope you don't believe that anymore... :uhoh:
And, Ark, Shinji and Asuka are no longer in Instrumentality, so no "Eden" parallel can be drawn.

I never said the beach was Eden.

The place where they end up is earth just like in genesis A and E are cast out of Eden and sent to earth which unlike Eden is not perfect but harsh and desolate.

[thewayneiac]

I never said the beach was Eden.

The place where they end up is earth just like in genesis A and E are cast out of Eden and sent to earth which unlike Eden is not perfect but harsh and desolate.

I'm pretty sure that Eden was on Earth.

[Mr. Tines]

I'm pretty sure that Eden was on Earth.

Quite so -

Genesis 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Eden was still being a place to navigate from in the next generation:-

Genesis 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

- though Dante re-located the Earthly Paradise to the top of a mountain at the antipodes of Jerusalem.

[Hexon.Arq]

Personally, I've always been a bit surprised that Hindi ideology so rarely enters Eva discussion, granted it does make more sense to write it up as Freudian given Anno's sources. It's a small world after all.

[BLACKANGEL32076]

Bump for great justice.

[Reichu]

Mmkay, I could probably find this on my own if I looked hard enough, but...

Does anyone recall offhand any of the worst / most ludicrous / funniest things that have resulted from people taking NGE's religious (and/or esoteric) references "the wrong way"? For an example that is in the general area I'm thinking of at EMF (http://forums.evamonkey.com/viewtopic.php?t=1442)):

The seven-eyed creature hung on the cross in the central dogma is Lilith, Adam's wife. Adam and Lilith had 18 children, of which the first seventeen got the fruit of power and were the Angels. The 18th child was Lilin, and it got the fruit of wisdom and become the human race.

You know, instances wherein people have a hard time telling where Judaeo-Christian lore ends and loony sci-fi begins. I need some really good ones.*

* For my spiel at Otakon, if you must know.

[Vaikyuko]

I still say the Naoko is in EVA-00 thing. I still don't know where people got that. Besides, wouldn't it be impossible to perform a CE with a dead person?

[Shin-seiki]

I still say the Naoko is in EVA-00 thing. I still don't know where people got that. Besides, wouldn't it be impossible to perform a CE with a dead person? Um, in the wake of the "Baasan" incident, both parties were dead, so whether Unit-00's soul is Naoko or Rei 1, the soul would've had to have been extracted from a corpse...

[Reichu]

Argh, Treize, that's not why I bumped this. >_<

[felineki]

I think I remember reading some random Geocities website (well, maybe it wasn't actually on Geocities, but I think you know what I mean) that said Adam was an actual Angel-Angel, (you know, *Hallelujah Chorus*, sent by God, and all) sent to earth to warn humanity of the dangers of cloning and genetic engineering, or summat.

[Dr. Nick]

You know, instances wherein people have a hard time telling where Judaeo-Christian lore ends and loony sci-fi begins. I need some really good ones.

The Spear of Longinus is the actual holy relic; the magical properties of Jesus' blood caused it to grow huge. Source: some awful, ancient Angelfire-site.

[kaos]

Random surfing (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112159/goofs) brought this up:

Factual errors: Seele bases its plans on the Dead Sea scrolls and the Kaballah, both Jewish in origin. Yet the Lance of Longinus, a specifically Christian concept, features heavily in its scenario even though it wouldn't even be mentioned in texts like the Dead Sea Scrolls.

[NeonZ]

I think the biggest collection of mistakes I've seen was in an unnofficial Eva RPG...

Adam was the actual Adam (from the Bible) turned into an Angel, and the later Angels were the children of Adam sent by god to punish the humanity for what they had done to Adam during the Second Impact. The Third Impact was going to turn humanity into a single being, a new God who would create a new universe. Basically, they thought that every name dropped around was a direct religious reference.

[Israfel64]

Misato had no sexual interest in Shinji whatsoever

Ok, if this is a misconception, that means Misato did have an interest in Shinji...Right? Explanation please.

[Dr. Nick]

Ok, if this is a misconception, that means Misato did have an interest in Shinji...Right? Explanation please.

In short: SHINJI, DO ME NOW! (http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-23/episode-23B-scene6.html#cut210)

[Vaikyuko]

Um, in the wake of the "Baasan" incident, both parties were dead, so whether Unit-00's soul is Naoko or Rei 1, the soul would've had to have been extracted from a corpse...

I would imagine it would be far easier with Rei I, though, in that they placed the soul into the clone in the first place, rather than it being "born" with a soul.

And oh, sorry Rach.

[Reichu]

In short: SHINJI, DO ME NOW! (http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-23/episode-23B-scene6.html#cut210)
she wants to ride his baloney pony lol

[BLACKANGEL32076]

In short: SHINJI, DO ME NOW! (http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-23/episode-23B-scene6.html#cut210)

It makes more sense when you have the transcripts from the sketchboards. Otherwise it looks like she's just trying to comfort Shinji. I made the same mistake myself many times, but then again, I'm biased toward Misa-chan.

[Hekym]

Um, in the wake of the "Baasan" incident, both parties were dead, so whether Unit-00's soul is Naoko or Rei 1, the soul would've had to have been extracted from a corpse...

Either way, it would still be Rei's mother, in a sense. Naoko created Rei and Rei was the source of other Reis... right? When was Asuka's mother's soul added? After her death?

As far as those brains in the Magi go... obviously they aren't Naoko's, but assuming she was working with Yui, could they be clones of Naoko's? Whose are they and why are they there?

And about Ritsuko's being in the upper levels- how much did she know, and when? Why was she so eager to leave when the bomb angel was dropping if she knew that it would cause The Bad Third Impact?

[Ornette]

Either way, it would still be Rei's mother, in a sense. Naoko created Rei and Rei was the source of other Reis... right? When was Asuka's mother's soul added? After her death?
Naoko did not create Rei. In fact, Naoko didn't meet Rei for the first time until Gendo brought her

AKAGI:
Good morning, Director. Did you bring your child today?
Oh, but you have a son, if I'm not mistaken.

IKARI:
This isn't Shinji.
I'm taking care of a friend's daughter. Her name is Rei Ayanami.

As far as those brains in the Magi go... obviously they aren't Naoko's, but assuming she was working with Yui, could they be clones of Naoko's? Whose are they and why are they there?
If they were clones of her brain, they're a LOT bigger than normal.

[felineki]

I remember MDWigs saying that liner notes or something explained that they weren't actual brains. They're just computers that are designed to work like human brains.

[Hekym]

oh, ok! Thanks for the info....If Naoko didn't create Rei... who did? Ritsuko was too new to Gehirn... right? Did Gendo do it?

[TS-Scorpio]

oh, ok! Thanks for the info....If Naoko didn't create Rei... who did? Ritsuko was too new to Gehirn... right? Did Gendo do it?

Random Scientists #1-4

[Shin-seiki]

Random Scientists #1-4Rei (#01 that is, as opposed to the dozens of souless clones in the Reiquarium) came into being as a result of the failed attempt to get Yui back out of Unit-01.
[Rei Ayanami]
The First Children, and dedicated pilot of Eva-00. A young girl who apparently lacks emotions. Her body was created from the salvaged remains of Yui Ikari after Yui was taken into the Eva, and numerous Rei clones were then prepared in Terminal Dogma so that when one Rei dies she can be replaced by another. The present Rei is the third. The first was killed by Dr. Naoko Akagi, and the second died in battle against the 16th Angel. Although the personalities of these three Rei differ from one another, this is due to environmental factors. Their soul is one and the same, and it appears to have been that of Lilith. At the final stage of the Instrumentality Project, Rei betrayed Gendou, returned to Lilith of her own judgment and entrusted the future to Gendou's son -- Shinji Ikari. Birth date: unknownIt is somewhat ambiguous just how exactly Lilith's soul ended up in this Yui-based body, tho one should keep in mind that Yui's Contact Experiment and the subsequent attempt to get her back took place while Unit-01 was still physically connected to Lilith. Such evidence as is available indicates that, to the extent that any one person can be said to be responsible for creating Rei, that would be Gendo:
(#025)
REI 1:
Why do you possess a false heart and body?

REI 3:
They are not false, because I am me.

REI 1:
No, you are a person whose false soul was
created by the human named Gendo Ikari.
You're nothing but an object living a lie, pretending to be a person.

---

IKARI:
Come, let us go.
You have existed for this day, today, Rei.

REI:
Yes!

[Hekym]

Ok, thanks!

..ugh

Guess it seemed like a good idea at the time....

[Reichu]

What the heck is "salvaged remains" supposed to mean? Darnit, I'll have to look at the Japanese later.

So, how did Gendo "create" Rei's "false soul"? Why does Ritsuko call that ghetto joint in the bowels of the Geofront "the room where Rei was born"? Was Rei 1 created in EVA-01's entry plug by accident, and Lilith's soul mysteriously 'quantum-funneled' there instead of Yui, hence why "Rei was the only one born with a soul"? Or was Rei 1 actually planned, and Lilith's soul intentionally salvaged? But if the latter were so, would Rei actually qualify for the special status Ritsuko gave her?

[Hekym]

What the heck is "salvaged remains" supposed to mean?

LCL, maybe?

[Reichu]

LCL isn't "salvaged remains", though. It's what you start out with when undertaking a salvage operation.

[TS-Scorpio]

LCL isn't "salvaged remains", though. It's what you start out with when undertaking a salvage operation.

LCL turned into chunks of lifeless Yui meat? Similar in a way to when Shinji was salvaged, only without an intact living body?

[AchtungAffen]

Maybe salvaged remains means something like Fullmetal Alchemist and the brought back mom. Some incomplete blurb reformed after Yui dissolved.

And the false soul thing, false probably because inserted and not spontaneous like the rest of humanity.