Everything you ever wanted to know about fansubs, but were afraid to ask

[Hayamaneko]

This here will be a sort of archive of online sites that provide an in-depth explination of the history of fansubbing, as well as how they are made. Here's the first link, written by an MIT graduate:

http://web.mit.edu/seantek/www/papers/progress-columns.pdf

^ 39 page analysis of fansubing and American anime fandom. does not cover the current trend in digi-subs


http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~animage/index.php?page=konshuu

^ The Berkly UC anime club website. Lots and lots of intresting articles.

[animeburn]

Heh, I'd rather the mods here sticky a thread about "Everything you wanted to know about getting Fansubs but are afraid to look" :lol:

But interesting nonetheless.

[Tiran]

Ive stickied this thread, if people can expand with useful links on the history legalities etc. of fansubing, I think it will be useful forreferance and for saving on the repeated threads. ^_^

[mangatron]

Well, I'm surprised. Finally a sticky for new people. If allowed, I would like to provide some links concerning a bit about fansubs.

Official BitTorrent website: http://bittorrent.com/index.html

And using that client [or others that you know], You may get unlicensed fansubs at this site: http://www.animesuki.com/

Don't know what BitTorrent is? This, I believe is a very informative, extensive information index of various BitTorrent issues: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrent

Remember, don't download licensed products, movies, hacked software, or whatever is licensed in your particular country. Lately Fines have been imposed on whoever attempts to download the like, and if you do not wish to pay Fines of up to $150,000 , then be a good person and make BitTorrent for what I believe, what it was originally intended to be.

[Yugi]

I have 2 questions.

1. If you have multiple downloads going, does it slow them all down?

2. I can't get High-Speed at my house, But my aunt has it, I can only make it to her house 1 time a week. Could I start like 10 series, come back in a week and have them all downloaded?

[raikage]

I have 2 questions.

1. If you have multiple downloads going, does it slow them all down?

2. I can't get High-Speed at my house, But my aunt has it, I can only make it to her house 1 time a week. Could I start like 10 series, come back in a week and have them all downloaded?

1. Yes. The key is (usually) your upload speed. If your upload is 100% of its capacity (with - say, a 20 kb/s max, you're uploading 20 kb/s) watch your d/l speed drop to somewhere close to 0.

I cap my total u/l speed at around 16 kb/s and my download speed is still something like 100 kb/sec.

2. Ten complete series!?! Um...I don't know about that...
Ten episodes, on my ADSL connection, yes.

[Yugi]

1. Yes. The key is (usually) your upload speed. If your upload is 100% of its capacity (with - say, a 20 kb/s max, you're uploading 20 kb/s) watch your d/l speed drop to somewhere close to 0.

I cap my total u/l speed at around 16 kb/s and my download speed is still something like 100 kb/sec.

2. Ten complete series!?! Um...I don't know about that...
Ten episodes, on my ADSL connection, yes.

1. Thanks, is there anyway to qeu them start when one ends.

2. Only ten? Or could I get more?

3. And just for fun, what if i had a T3 connection, how fast could i dl them?

[Beer Goggles]

For any of those with legality queries into the matter: http://fansub-faq.darkmirage.com/

[kalisaris]

Is it illegal to download just some chapters of any series or manga?

[raikage]

1. Thanks, is there anyway to qeu them start when one ends.

2. Only ten? Or could I get more?

3. And just for fun, what if i had a T3 connection, how fast could i dl them?

1. (Assuming you have BitTorrent) Yes. It depends on yor client (use Azureus or TorrentStorm). I don't use Direct Connect, Bearshare, or anything besides BT these days.

2. Hell if I know how many eps you can get in a ten-day period. How many will you realistically watch, anyway?

3. Probably ridiculously fast (if they're well-seeded). Planning on upgrading soon? ^_^

[Animematt55]

1. (Assuming you have BitTorrent) Yes. It depends on yor client (use Azureus or TorrentStorm). I don't use Direct Connect, Bearshare, or anything besides BT these days.

2. Hell if I know how many eps you can get in a ten-day period. How many will you realistically watch, anyway?

3. Probably ridiculously fast (if they're well-seeded). Planning on upgrading soon? ^_^

Note on #3, T3 is very expensive, and is usually at schools and such. I have a t3 at school, and they filter bottorrents (they still work but not as fast) and remember it takes time for them to get runnign fast.

[KamuiX1999]

I was just wondering, how do I cap my upload speed?

I'm only getting like 50 or 60 k/s at tops and I want like 100 k/s or so.

[raikage]

I was just wondering, how do I cap my upload speed?

I'm only getting like 50 or 60 k/s at tops and I want like 100 k/s or so.

Use Azureus or TorrentStorm. Shadow's client can also cap u/l speed.

Is it illegal to download just some chapters of any series or manga?

Probably yes. Under the legal concept of fair use, you MAY be able to claim 'educational value' but I wouldn't expect it to hold up that well.

[dunno001]

Probably yes. Under the legal concept of fair use, you MAY be able to claim 'educational value' but I wouldn't expect it to hold up that well.
I'll clarify it, then. No. It's not legal. The images contained are still the property of the mangaka and publisher, and due to international copyright laws, it is, as defined by the law, illegal. 'Educational value' will not hold up.

And as a general note for all BT users in general, the Japanese companies are also taking action. Some sites are compliant with the cease-and-desist orders, others aren't. This is only a guess, but I would not be surprised if some Japanese company decided to license a series for less than they want, and add in the clause to go after sites offering links to download it in exchange. BT has grown too fast for its own good, and it's also allowed for more unethical things to run rampant. The old VHS days had nobody caring because of the limits of distribution. But now, licenses mean nothing to too many people, and it's going to ruin it for everyone, "ethical" or not. I fully expect that in about another year, it'll be pushed back to harder-to-find methods, like private IRC channels.

[Apocrypha]

I have a question about fansubs too:

Is it legal to burn a fansub to a recording DVD? I know it's illegal to buy them, but if you create on for yourself, is that OK?

Another one,
what's the fast helper? I've been using Azures, but I was wondering if there's one faster.

[dunno001]

I have a question about fansubs too:

Is it legal to burn a fansub to a recording DVD? I know it's illegal to buy them, but if you create on for yourself, is that OK?

Another one,
what's the fast helper? I've been using Azures, but I was wondering if there's one faster.
Well, it depends. Technically, it's illegal to have them to begin with, but you're not going to be prosecuted for possession alone. It would be no more illegal to burn them to DVD. However, if the DVD were used as an alternate to a legit DVD, then yes, it would be worse.

However, if you do have a legit DVD, say, an R2 or the R1 when it comes out later, then it would be perfectly legal, as it would be a backup in that case.

[xFANCY_MOOSEx]

With Suprnova now no longer offering torrents, how long do you think until we see fansubs taken off the internet? Like with our current problem with P2P programs?

[wakarimasu]

They're never going to be taken off of the internet, they're just going to be harder to find. You may have to use a decentralized P2P system (which, thanks to the 9th circuit court of appeals, developers & distributers of said software are protected from lawsuits) to get the fansubs, but they'll never go away. I already d/l most fansubs using the bittorrent mode in Shareaza and then, even if the trackers go down, it's still avalable over gnutella.

~Nikku

[Dr. Ezra]

I've never seen a fansub. Are they any good?

[Yugi]

Note on #3, T3 is very expensive, and is usually at schools and such. I have a t3 at school, and they filter bottorrents (they still work but not as fast) and remember it takes time for them to get runnign fast.


ya I know, My fathers work has a T3, I was thinking of finding a way to break down the firewall

[xFANCY_MOOSEx]

I've never seen a fansub. Are they any good?

Yeah, they're the new underground compenent of anime, basically just imagine a subbed ep of an unliscenced anime on your computer

[Malon]

I've never seen a fansub. Are they any good?

There is a lot of unlicensed anime that is excellent. Of course, if you like anime, you'd like fansubs.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

is the anime in southeast asia fansubbed? i tried to compare it once to the stuff here in the US.

what im trying to say is that i used to watch Rurouni Kenshin in the philippines... the voice acting was good. but when i got the dvds here...the dubs kinda different..

[AchtungAffen]

It's not very well known in North America, but in Europe and South America it's the bomb:

http://www.emule-project.net/home/perl/general.cgi?l=1

What is e-mule?
A p2p application

What's the difference of it about others like BT or Kazaa?

emule, descends from the other p2p program "e-donkey 2000". E-mule has a unique ID (hash) for every file there is, a code that every client can do when you share files. So you know exactly what you're downloading. E-mule doesn't work on a central server like napster did. It uses individual servers, and there are millions around the globe. It can also work serverless (either using KAD [kademlia] or with another program called Overnet).

So, once connected to a server you can search for files. Also there are sites like filedonkey where you can use a web interface to do a multi-server search.

The best thing about emule compared to kazaa, is not only the file identification, but also the anti-corruption measures. When you downloaded large files with kazaa, generally they got corrupted. But emule downloads by non sequential parts, and every time a part is finished, it rehashes the file to check if its corrupted, and if it is, it only redownloads the part that went wrong. Also, emule uses "ed2k" links (links that start with ed2k:// instead of http://), which contain the name, size and identification of the file. So just by having a forum and posting ed2k links you can distribute and advertise your files. A link is all you need. It's not a file like BT, just a link.

The best thing compared to BT is that the files can be online eternally as long as anyone shares it. It doesn't depend on an original seed, neither needs trackers. Also, you can search for files.

The bad thing of emule compared to BT and Kazaa, is that emule is slower than these other 2. So slow can it be, that if you have dial-up, it will be so inefficient that you better use another app. Its more designed for broadband users.

Another con is that emule requires some router configuration. That's the hard part. But if you have only a modem, then there's no problem. Also if you know more or less how to configure your router you'll be able to do it in no time. Also emule's page contains info on how to configure some brands of routers.

Emule has some years now. And emule based file and fansub distribution has been on the rise, and now is bigger than ever. I found extremely rare stuff here, things that would be almost impossible to find on other network or even specialized stores. There are also enormous sites with collections of ed2k links, like the now defunct sharereactor (that was the bomb), and there's also an animereactor (for fansubs) and mangareactor (for scanlations - although some of the stuff there is also scans from already licensed titles [but hey! you won't find "Bad Companies" anywhere else].).

For those here who use AniDB as something like animeNFO, you're missing the best part. If you're registered you can also get the ed2k's for most of the anime listed there.

Resuming: emule is the next generation and evolution of p2p, total freedom, total security (both you and the file), enormous ammount of files available, thousands of people releasing files in ed2k links. It's emule or die now.

[kalisaris]

Nice post :naughty:

No matter how slow that stubborn mule runs on my pc, it will always be my favorite :thumbsup: The speed is more of a broadband problem, though, as AA well stated >.>

The best part is that you can find almost anything there... so lovable! :wub:

[MavsWorld]

If you download of sites your allowed to legally keep your eps for 24 hours or something similar. I saw fansubs of the whole Gundam seed series and it was really good apart from a few grammatical and spelling errors.

[Kakura]

Oh the bootleg sites have the disclaimer. The act of the internet privacy only applies to the citizens of the U.S.

[DeathBerry]

Everything thing you need to know:

1. It's stressfull/demanding/tiring
2. You need to be good at something,
either math or languages...
3. It takes up 70% of your time, if not more

[xFANCY_MOOSEx]

Everything thing you need to know:

1. It's stressfull/demanding/tiring
2. You need to be good at something,
either math or languages...
3. It takes up 70% of your time, if not more

Um... what are you talking about? Do you mean actually subbing?

[kalisaris]

Everything thing you need to know:

1. It's stressfull/demanding/tiring
2. You need to be good at something,
either math or languages...
3. It takes up 70% of your time, if not more


It seems like studying on the first year of the University :P But that would be clearly off-topic.

[Yugi]

Do some subbers translate what most would dub into I love you as, your an important person to me?

[raikage]

Do some subbers translate what most would dub into I love you as, your an important person to me?

Probably not.

"I love you" would be 愛してる [ai shite(i)ru]
"Important (precious) person" would be 大切な人 [taisetsu-na hito)

and the two are VERY different terms.

However, I don't hear too many people saying the latter in English, so translating it into context - "friend" or "loved one" sounds a lot more normal than "an important (a precious) person".

[slotmech]

When asked if fansubbing will stop because BT sites and IRC networks are being shut down, you see alot of people confidently saying no, as if the entertainment industry holds no power over the internet. The only reason p2p is still battled over in courts is because people in the IT field is able to have connections with the higher-ups since GDP from the computer field has increased exponentially over the last few years. If the total profit generated by the computer industry today is the same as ten years ago, the RIAA/MPAA would've won a long time ago.

Just trying to clear up the misconception of the entertainment industry being powerless, because they're not.

[TougeSil80]

Then let's just hope the IT industry remain powerful for a few more years.

[AnimEd]

what are fansubs?

[venom112]

Just trying to clear up the misconception of the entertainment industry being powerless, because they're not.
Why would someone have that misconception? I think the bigger problem is that they think they can fully wipe out the problems they face, when it would appear that the moment they've cut down one system, one or two more pop up to take its place. Let's take that George W. Bush guy as a poor analogy.

He's a powerful guy, and he thinks that by taking away a lot of people's freedoms and going to war with various countries whilst shoving the country he is the leader of into an incredible debt he can eliminate terrorism, but that won't happen. Heck, in theory it could actually increase it.

[AnimEd]

Fansub ??????

[Jinpun]

Fansubs are fan subtitled anime.

When a new anime is released in Japan, groups of people called "fansubbers" take the episodes and translate them and add subtitles. They are then released on the net for people to dowload.

That way people in America and other countries can see the latest anime out of Japan, without having to learn the native tongue and/or wait forever for an R1 release.

Once an anime is licensed, the fansubs stop and circulation as well.

[AchtungAffen]

Hubris loses men and nations. Let them enjoy the power they still retain, some day those words will come true:

Extinction never felt so good

Dinosaurs will surely die.

[mangatron]

It's not very well known in North America, but in Europe and South America it's the bomb:

http://www.emule-project.net/home/perl/general.cgi?l=1

What is e-mule?
A p2p application

What's the difference of it about others like BT or Kazaa?

emule, descends from the other p2p program "e-donkey 2000". E-mule has a unique ID (hash) for every file there is, a code that every client can do when you share files. So you know exactly what you're downloading. E-mule doesn't work on a central server like napster did. It uses individual servers, and there are millions around the globe. It can also work serverless (either using KAD [kademlia] or with another program called Overnet).

So, once connected to a server you can search for files. Also there are sites like filedonkey where you can use a web interface to do a multi-server search.

The best thing about emule compared to kazaa, is not only the file identification, but also the anti-corruption measures. When you downloaded large files with kazaa, generally they got corrupted. But emule downloads by non sequential parts, and every time a part is finished, it rehashes the file to check if its corrupted, and if it is, it only redownloads the part that went wrong. Also, emule uses "ed2k" links (links that start with ed2k:// instead of http://), which contain the name, size and identification of the file. So just by having a forum and posting ed2k links you can distribute and advertise your files. A link is all you need. It's not a file like BT, just a link.

The best thing compared to BT is that the files can be online eternally as long as anyone shares it. It doesn't depend on an original seed, neither needs trackers. Also, you can search for files.

The bad thing of emule compared to BT and Kazaa, is that emule is slower than these other 2. So slow can it be, that if you have dial-up, it will be so inefficient that you better use another app. Its more designed for broadband users.

Another con is that emule requires some router configuration. That's the hard part. But if you have only a modem, then there's no problem. Also if you know more or less how to configure your router you'll be able to do it in no time. Also emule's page contains info on how to configure some brands of routers.

Emule has some years now. And emule based file and fansub distribution has been on the rise, and now is bigger than ever. I found extremely rare stuff here, things that would be almost impossible to find on other network or even specialized stores. There are also enormous sites with collections of ed2k links, like the now defunct sharereactor (that was the bomb), and there's also an animereactor (for fansubs) and mangareactor (for scanlations - although some of the stuff there is also scans from already licensed titles [but hey! you won't find "Bad Companies" anywhere else].).

For those here who use AniDB as something like animeNFO, you're missing the best part. If you're registered you can also get the ed2k's for most of the anime listed there.

Resuming: emule is the next generation and evolution of p2p, total freedom, total security (both you and the file), enormous ammount of files available, thousands of people releasing files in ed2k links. It's emule or die now.

I hope you do realize Emule was destroyed the moment it got released.

People on emule never share.

It took me 2 months to get a 190mb file. 2 FRICKIN WHOLE MONTHS. And I ul'ed way more than 190mb to others, who in turn didn't share to me....

Ask experienced users of p2p. They will confirm my horrible experience with Emule.

[AchtungAffen]

Never share? Hahahahaha. That only happens with rare files. I don't have problems with my downloads, and only files with 2 or less sources take that long. I've been using emule for almost 3 years, and also used other p2p's including BT, and that's why I'll keep saying emule is the best one (if you know how to use it). Try to use BT on a year old torrent, let's see how much you'll download. ed2k links are eternal as long as one person still shares that file, nevermind that person is the original releaser or not. For ex. GTO Live Action is 350 megs a piece, and takes 3 days to DL, considering it's not a very popular DL. AF's Samurai Champloo downloads in half a day. You need to know how to use the program and how to optimize what you're trying to DL, looking for the link with most sources, kad, servers you choose, etc...

[pinoy]

Aren't fansubbed animes posted online for everyone to download illegal? I've heard all sorts of arguments that it's not as long as the movie has not been officially released in your respective countries. Others were adamant that it's a victimless crime if it were not allowed.

[Hellmaster Inu]

As long as it's not licensed in the US, then I don't see anything illegal about to me.

[yangster]

From what I heard, fansubs are illegal. You should have asked this in the sticky fansub thread.

[Levon]

They are in fact illegal, its just nobody in the US(& I'm guessing the same with Canada, UK, Mexico, etc.) cares if the anime isn't licensed here, why should they?

Which is why we can give out links like this: www.animesuki.com ^_^ but if we were to give out links to anime that was licensed we would be banned(or just link removed).

[MagicianCamille]

Which is why we can give out links like this: www.animesuki.com ^_^


Ohhh you rebel, you and your exciting on-the-edge life-style makes me jealous.


If the anime isn't licensed in America, there is nothing wrong with downloading it, but if you enjoy it be sure to buy the series if it comes out in America.

I understand the creator doesn't get money if you download the anime(unlicensed), but they don't get money if you don't either.

[John]

Anime is copyrighted, which means that sharing or distributing any anime without written permission from the copyright owner is a violation of international copyright law. Yes. Pure and simple, no debate or discussion: fansubs are illegal. It doesn't matter if the anime is licensed or unlicensed in your area. It's illegal. Period.

Fansubs are illegal, but no one has ever been sued or arrested for watching, downloading, creating or distributing fansubs. The fact that no one prosecutes doesn't mean that it's legal. It just means that copyright owners either ignore fansubs, or don't consider them worth the expense or effort of legally shutting down.

Fansubs are illegal, but most fans continue to support them anyway because they believe that fansubs do more good than harm.

[pinoy]

It's interesting how some moderators condone watching unlicensed anime and yet they delete a topic I posted about watching Naruto using winamp. I'm just encountering a lot of double-standards issues here. Look how low my post count is. :P :$%&#!:

If you ask me, and thank you for doing so, it would be rather ignorant for this website to allow posting of links to unlicensed animes even though the internet is international where anyone can access these links.

[Leader Desslock]

If you ask me, and thank you for doing so, it would be rather ignorant for this website to allow posting of links to unlicensed animes even though the internet is international where anyone can access these links.

I agree 110%. If I mention a competitor selling a licensed copy of a title that AnimeNation doesn't carry (legal and not even real competition), my post is deleted. But if I want to have a discussion about the ways to optimize downloads through a site which also carries fansubs of licensed/unlicensed products, (clearly illegal in both cases, unless the material was posted and approved by the copyright holder) THAT doesn't get deleted.

My message to the AnimeNation mods/Admins would simply be: Either AnimeNation supports the industry or it does not. I perfectly understand the reason that competitors' links are not allowed. Now it's time for AN to stop giving an unofficial sanction to illegal activity. To do otherwise is to say, "We don't care about the industry, just our profits relative to our competitors."

How does that further AN's reputation as a company? If it wasn't for the filter, I could list three other online companies who sell licensed anime that make a POINT of describing the problem with bootlegs and fansubs, how to identify them, and why these products hurt the industry. Why doesn't AN step up to the bar? Most people would rather buy products from reputable dealers, and quite honestly, these companies have done more to demonstrate their good reputations as dealers of licensed products.

And I don't personally buy the whole "we delete threads with links and discussions of LICENSED fansubs, but not UNLICENSED fansubs" thing. What's the difference? Illegal is illegal. Unlike most things in life, this one's actually black and white, too.

In short: with all due respect, quit being hypocrites. I know it's not easy, and I don't envy the tasks that the Admins/Mods have to do to regulate the boards. But I think AN needs to get off the fence on this one and set a good example.

EITHER THAT, or AN should simply go back to allowing discussion of fansubs of licensed products, competitors, etc. I actually don't care which side AN chooses, I just don't think it should remain on the fence about the issue, as a seller of licensed legitimate products.

That's my opinion. If other members disagree, fine, there are lots of threads in which to debate the issue. But I'd like to hear from a spokesman from AN on this one, quite honestly. I would like to hear the company's justification for permitting discussion threads and links to sites that permit the illegal downloading of copyrighted material. Am I alone on this, or would anyone else like to hear it as well?

[Ketaru]

Hmm...do I agree with you...I do completely Leader Desslock.

In this day and age of the DVD, with a Japanese track on almost all anime available in the US, there is little or no excuse for downloading cheap entertainment off the internet. Even those anime that are supposedly not licensed yet in the US, I am more than willing to bet that, if they are worth watching, they will make their way here in due time. Animes like Maison Ikkoku and Flame of Recca were (according to somebody on the Hunter X Hunter forum) lost causes...but here they are in the US on DVD.

But it usually doesn't stop with unlicensed anime. One of my brother's friends claims to have Gundam in gigs on his computer. There is really no excuse for that. He is only cheating other fans that buy their anime legally. Some fans complain about the skimpy extras on DVDs that companies here in America have. It isn't helping anybody if they don't buy the rights the supplements from Japan because not enough people are going to buy the legal copy to make it worth it. That's just one possible example.

Besides...in the end, I think there is a very satisfying feeling when you own a copy of your favorite series and you didn't steal from anybody to get it.

[xFANCY_MOOSEx]

http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161576

[Leader Desslock]

^ While that's an excellent discussion, and a good place for us to debate the issue of the illegality of downloading fansubs, I would still like to hear from an AnimeNation spokesperson on the issue I raised earlier:

As a legitimate vendor of licensed merchandise, why does AnimeNation condone the discussion of illegal download activity on their boards?

EDIT: Please note that I'm not looking for AN to justify their decision to me - it's their board, they can delete every third post containing the letter 'Q' if they want. I'm just curious to hear what that justification is. No flames, I'm just curious.

[Yowvapa]

Why not bring up the question to the Feedback forum? Why have it had to be discussed here?

[Leader Desslock]

Why not bring up the question to the Feedback forum? Why have it had to be discussed here?

Good point. I just brought it up in this thread because it was on my mind, but since you mentioned it, I 've asked again here (http://www.animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4566673#post4566673). Anyone who wants to discuss this or flame me personally for my opinions can do it there, in order to keep this thread clean.

[Malchiel]

Don't worry too much about legality,

There's a time when slavery was legal, that doesn't make it right.

There're tons of examples where legal doesn't mean right.

Whether it's right or wrong to dl anime I'm not so sure, I'm not really leaning either way. I suggest consult your conscience and decide for yourself on this issue.

There're certainly solid arguments, for either sides, although I have to say, consumer advocate groups usually have the better argument.

[Leader Desslock]

^ With all due respect, I don't believe that ANYONE can equate the moral issue of slavery with the moral issue of violating copyright law. If you're gonna pick an example, pick one that's even in the ballpark. That's like saying, "You know, back in 1940's Germany, many of the atrocities for which members of the high command would later be tried as war criminals against humanity were ACTUALLY LEGAL! Go figure. So remember that, the next time someone reminds you of the legality of Jaywalking. It's all relative." <_<

I've yet to hear a single argument in favor of downloading anime that doesn't boil down to "I don't want to wait/pay to see my favorite entertainment." You're comparing THAT to the moral issue of slavery? With all due respect, dude - that's just wrong. It might not be illegal, but it's wrong.

[Malchiel]

Nope, it's merely my proof by contradiction that legal doesn't mean right.

There're other, better arguments out there, I'm taking a class for it, but it gets too long winded to put it all in here.

If you haven't find any argument that just boils down to that, you haven't been reading enough.

Bye

[Leader Desslock]

^ When you (or anyone) finds a link to a more definitive argument, I guarantee I'll be more than happy to read it. But I have yet to find one online myself, and I sure haven't seen anything else on these boards. I look forward to my future edification in this matter. :)

[Bishoujo Senshi]

I don't even know what's to discuss. I am one of the champions of downloading, but I'll also admit that it is illegal. I could rationalize it by saying it's better than buying bootlegs (which I feel it is, at least I'm not paying someone to steal for me) but it still comes right back to the fact that I am, in fact, taking a product and not paying for it, ie I am stealing it. Do I feel guilty about this? Nope, because I am currently staring at a wall of 450 anime DVDs. In that collection, resides my Gungrave DVDs. Before their release, I had fansubs, however, you will not find those files on my computer any longer. Once a series comes out on DVD, I buy the DVD and delete the corresponding episodes. So, yes, I am a thief, but I do have a few morals;)

[Malchiel]

It's also notable that none of these ppl accused of being in violation of the copyright law was ever proved guilty. Most of them just gave up lawsuit in order for a settlement, simply because the businesses just have so much more $$$ behind them.

Personally technology is here to change the way media is distributed. It'd be foolish fighting it. Ppl should embrace it, and adapt a better business model.

The same thing happens, when radio became a consumer product. In fact the music industry was worse hit than they're now. They lost 90% of sales, and claimed hence, that radio is a violation of copyright laws. Of course we look at this now and laugh.

Personally I see the same thing going on right now.

[Leader Desslock]

...The same thing happens, when radio became a consumer product. In fact the music industry was worse hit than they're now. They lost 90% of sales, and claimed hence, that radio is a violation of copyright laws. Of course we look at this now and laugh...

Well, not the same thing. When people started listening to music via the radio, they didn't get a copy of it to replay at will. With downloads, they do. That, and when radio first started broadcasting music, there simply weren't laws on the books governing the broadcast and transmission of content in that manner. Nowadays, there are.

So when you say 'the same thing', I'm curious - is today a Calvin and Hobbes "Opposite Day"? Wish I'd known. :)

I'm not saying that business models and laws are absolutes and should never be changed. If they need to change, great, let 'em change. But until they do, it's still pretty cut and dried. It's illegal, and it all boils down to "I don't wanna wait/pay for my entertainment." Simple enough.

I'm still waiting to be edified.

[Malchiel]

Well, not the same thing. When people started listening to music via the radio, they didn't get a copy of it to replay at will. With downloads, they do. That, and when radio first started broadcasting music, there simply weren't laws on the books governing the broadcast and transmission of content in that manner. Nowadays, there are.


Well you get a copy actually, of the sound. While you're listening to it there's a "copy" of the sound. I betcha if I place several radios in a few rooms, you're gonna here multiple copies of the sound, unless you aren't aware of that fact.

So it boils down to what's a "copy". A copy of the sound vibration is just as much a copy as electric current going to and from down the cpu.

What happens if I make a site, where anybody can stream any movies they want? Would that be a violation? Take it a step further, what if ppl download it and then delete it, why would it be any different? What if I post up manga scanlations on the internet, and lock the pictures such that they can't be downloaded simply by copy and clicking?

The problem with your argument is that you assume "replay-at-will" a copyright infringement. And that you assume that there're concrete laws and books governing transmission of material via the internet. And like I said before, laws are of little relevance where internet is concerned. If there're tons of examples of laws that aren't relevant. What if I get legal songs from Russia, who do not believe that they should pay the recording industries, only the artists. These songs are sold for 2 cents a piece, and the artists got their due. What I'm doing is perfectly legal, though the industry here won't like that. For me, all I'm doing is outsourcing, to them, I'm making an illegal download.

At that time, in that culture, with the the then-technology, it was the samething as we have today.

I'm still waiting to be edified.

Sorry old man, you make the accusation that all downloadings boils down to I want it now, the burden of proof lies with you, not me. Why don't you, show me how this can be the case.


The burden of proof is always on the person asserting something. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of Argumentum ad Ignorantiam, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion. The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.

"OK, so if you don't think the grey aliens have gained control of the US government, can you prove it?"


Lol I dunno what's it with you. As I recall you're in the computer industry, you should be familiar with hard core logic rules.

[Leader Desslock]

...I betcha if I place several radios in a few rooms, you're gonna here multiple copies of the sound, unless you aren't aware of that fact.

Yes, but I'd be HEARing the same broadcast, even if it the room was sufficiently large for me to perceive the delay between each radio's speaker. And since the radio station is licensed to broadcast the music in its collection, (for which the licensors and copyright holders are compensated) there's no problem. It's legal. Why do you try to ****er meaningless semantics? Do you think these things through before you write them? It's no different than putting a cable splitter from your DVD player to two separate TV's in the same room. You're watching it in stereo, but it's one 'broadcast'.

What happens if I make a site, where anybody can stream any movies they want? Would that be a violation?

Not if you have been granted a license to broadcast all of the materials on your site. If, however, you decide to add a title for which you have not purchased a license from the licensor (or if it's not licensed, a title for which you have received permission from the copyright holder, presumably for some form of compensation) then yes, it would be a violation. Just like if you owned a TV station and broadcast a tape of a TV show for which you lacked a license, or for which you did not receive permission to broadcast in that manner.

Take it a step further, what if ppl download it and then delete it, why would it be any different?

Is it illegal (not just against the house rules, but actually illegal) for you to enter a movie theater and watch a film without paying to see it? Try it sometime, then walk straight up to the nearest manager, show 'im your ID and tell him you didn't pay a dime. Let us all know the results. That should answer your question.

What if I post up manga scanlations on the internet, and lock the pictures such that they can't be downloaded simply by copy and clicking?

Are you allowing the content to be viewed in more than one place simultaneously? Then it's illegal. You CAN, if you're crazy enough, photocopy an entire book, provided it's for your own use (say you want to mark it up, but you don't want to write in the original) and you make sure that the work is only 'used' in one location. But if you copy the book, then loan the original to a friend while you walk off with the copy, that's illegal.

The problem with your argument is that you assume "replay-at-will" a copyright infringement.

No, I was merely listing that as one tangible difference between the broadcast of music when radio first started, versus the download of materials off the internet. Thought I made that clear, but if not, my bad.

And that you assume that there're concrete laws and books governing transmission of material via the internet.

...as opposed to the assumption that "because there's no law that specifically lists P2P technology, terms like 'broadcast' and 'duplicate' are too vague to apply so IT MUST BE LEGAL!!! WOO HOO!!!"

And like I said before, laws are of little relevance.

To thieves? Of course laws are of little relevance to thieves. Kind of goes with the job description, don't it? :)

What if I get legal songs from Russia, who do not believe that they should pay the recording industries, only the artists for 2 cents a piece? What I'm doing is perfectly legal, though the industry here won't like that.

If an artist in Russia creates a song, then grants you permission (either directly or via a license) to broadcast and/or distribute their material, then yes, it would be perfectly legal. Same thing with a garage band from Fresno. Your point being?

At that time, in that culture, with the the then-technology, it was the samething as we have today.

...on Opposite Day...

Sorry old man, you make the claim that all downloadings boils down to I want it now, the burden of proof lies with you, not me. Why don't you, show me how this can be the case.

Now finally you make a valid point: I *am* old. :lol: However, as to the downloading of unlicensed anime, I'd ask what more proof you need than:
1) A title exists which you can't obtain legally (unlicensed, undistributed)
2) You know it is against the law of your region to obtain it at the time
3) You know that the title (let's use Naruto) will inevitably be released, at which point you will be able to obtain it legally
4) You choose to download it before it is legally available, knowing that this is a violation of the law

Pardon me for trying to connect some dots here, but why would you download it, unless you WANTED it? To flush out your CAT-5 with data bits? As an act of rebellion? Because that's about the lamest rebellion I've ever heard of, seriously.

You want. You don't want to wait or pay (either/or). You take. Pretty simple.

And because I just know someone will mention the stuff that'll never come here at all, here's another for instance: "Oh, but sir, there are wonderful novels in the Russian language that I would love to experience, but I fear that they will never be translated or brought to the US! Oh, the culture I am missing!"

Does that mean that it's okay for some guy from Akron to translate the original work, run it to PDF, then post it on the web without paying royalties to the original author? Does it mean it's okay for me to download the PDF and enjoy the work, even if I know it's an illegal copy? No, and No. The original author retains all rights to the work unless specifically granted. The guy in Akron can't make a translation without permission, and you can't knowingly download it. Now if the guy in Akron commits fraud by selling it to me as a licensed work, that's not my fault. But if I KNOW it's not licensed for PDF distribution, I'm liable for my actions.

Either way, it's the same thing. I had the option to learn Russian and order the originals direct from the publisher. I had the option to petition the publisher to release a translation. But I didn't take the legal options. I wanted the Russian novels, I didn't want to pay or wait for them to be available legally, so I took them in an illegal form. Stealing.

[HeeroYuy]

thats good info

[Malchiel]

...as opposed to the assumption that "because there's no law that specifically lists P2P technology, terms like 'broadcast' and 'duplicate' are too vague to apply so IT MUST BE LEGAL!!! WOO HOO!!!"

Nope. Never made that assumption. But between the consumer groups, the technology advocates against the big industries, I feel that the consumer groups and the technology advocates are winning the argument.

May be my role as a consumer and a technologist give me that bias. Oh well.

[Malchiel]

If an artist in Russia creates a song, then grants you permission (either directly or via a license) to broadcast and/or distribute their material, then yes, it would be perfectly legal. Same thing with a garage band from Fresno. Your point being?


Yep the American artists gave their permission, since they've to sign up to get the comission anyways. And yep they got royalty. And this is what I meant by technology advocacy. In an era where media can be easily distributed, I'm not so sure that recording industries are still as relevant. Technology is the way of the future, businesses should adopt their model accordingly. But ppl hate to change, big businesses the most. They only have themselves to blame.

[Malchiel]

I support p2p because it supports technological advancement. There'll be new IT industries to enforce copyright, and there'll be industries trying to break it. That creates competition. Competition Creates advancement. And I support technological advancement, because it makes life better for everyone,... well most of the time.

Plus this is my profession. As more ppl use technology to solve critical problems such these, I get better paid... and makes it easier for me to find a job :b and not to mention I'll buy anime cheaper. Okay may be oversimplistic and selfish but oh well.

[raikage]

Yep the American artists gave their permission, since they've to sign up to get the comission anyways. And yep they got royalty. And this is what I meant by technology advocacy. In an era where media can be easily distributed, I'm not so sure that recording industries are still as relevant. Technology is the way of the future, businesses should adopt their model accordingly. But ppl hate to change, big businesses the most. They only have themselves to blame.

You...er...DO realize that those same big businesses pay for studio time (EXPENSIVE), for re-recording/audio sweetening, DVD's, (sometimes) concert tours, and promotions, right?

[Malchiel]

Yep but the consumers will have to make that choice, not the business. Remember the adage, the consumer is always right. For example I don't care for cds, it's a needless waste of space. Why should I pay for it? DVDs... er well ppl can write their won DVDs. Audio-sweetening? Each artist can be a small businessman too, nothing wrong with that. Same goes with concert and etc. If they have enough fame, they can make concerts themselves.

When you cut down on the distribution chain, you get products cheaper. Current tech allows that, but current business model doesn't support that.

That being said, I consider getting something for nothing as morally wrong. But big businesses don't have it right either, by forcing something on the consumers who wants things differently.

In fact BB tactic violates the US constitution of promoting arts and science. I'm sorry I just don't see how a 70 year copyright protection is at all necessary. The purpose of copyright is now no longer the promotion of "useful arts and science" as outlined in the US constitution, but rather profitability.

Which side I pick... currently the consumer is the lesser of the two evil.

[Leader Desslock]

Yep the American artists gave their permission, since they've to sign up to get the comission anyways. And yep they got royalty.

I have no problem with people downloading stuff that artists put up as a means of self distribution. In my mind, that's no different than buying a CD that the artists have released through one of the big labels. How the artist chooses to distribute their work is their decision. And in that instance, what 'The Industry' (as if there is a single entity) thinks of the artist's decision is entirely irrelevant because unless a contract is signed, they simply don't have the rights to tell the artists how they can and can't distribute their work.

I almost get the idea that you think I'm against P2P or other technological innovations that allow the convenient transfer of large amounts of data. I'm not. That would be ridiculous. I might as well be against TCP/IP. Tech is tech. It's a tool, nothing more, and like any tool it can be used responsibly or not. The tools are irrelevant, however.

I'm also not against 'The Industry' (that mythical beast) changing its business model to allow for various means of distributing content. It's doing Apple a ton of good at the moment. They took a chance, and it paid off. If anime distributors did the same thing, it'd probably work for them as well.

What I'm opposed to is using any tool (personal tech or otherwise) to distribute content without the consent and/or compensation of the copyright holder and/or artists. And really, that's just my personal decision. If someone else decides to do otherwise, that's their decision. I'm just opposed to them calling it anything other than what it is (stealing) or pretending it's doing The Industry a favor, or that they have some moral right to do it. As I've said a dozen times, someone wants to steal? Fine. Just as long as they know what they're doing and call it what it is.

...by forcing something on the consumers...

Nothing is ever forced onto a consumer that the consumer does not allow to be forced upon him. If it could be done, we'd have all bought Edsels. We didn't, so the market changed. Anime would work the same way, if enough people wanted to push the industry.

And as for being biased? US?!? Oh, come on, now - we're surely not BIASED in our opinions in any way... :lol:

[Malchiel]

Nothing is ever forced onto a consumer that the consumer does not allow to be forced upon him.

I disagree. Present practices and industrial monopoly allows for little else. It's not supportive of the promotion of useful arts and science nor the creation of better business practices (that's not anti-competitive). It's not dictatorship, but there's a lack of freedom and liberty in the current situation through the means of economic leverage.

[Leader Desslock]

You can disagree if you want, and I'll respect your right to do so, but the unambiguous fact is that if a company doesn't make a product that I want, then I do not have to buy it. Period. ESPECIALLY with a non-necessity like an entertainment product.

Of course, it's when people say, "But what I really WANT is X, but that's not what the company makes. So I have to..." Ah, that's when the consumer hands his power over to the industry. Nobody HAS to anything. People choose.

So, for example, let's say that I decided that I preferred my anime in purely electronic format - not DVD's or VHS. I think they're a waste of space, and I've got terrabytes of storage in my media center. I want them electronically. Do the companies distribute the titles I want in that format? Not today. So what are my options?

Well, I can choose the legal option, which is to withhold my money until the companies change their distribution format. In essence, I'd be saying, "You have no products that I want, and I won't give you money until you do." Consumer in control.

Or, I can choose the other option, which is to download them illegally. It's just a choice, like any other; it's nothing I was required to do. I decided that I did not want to wait until the product I wanted was available, so I went ahead and took...

Hey - haven't I said that before? Yep, no matter how you slice it, it all boils down to a person unwilling to wait or pay for something. :)

[raikage]

Yep but the consumers will have to make that choice, not the business. Remember the adage, the consumer is always right. For example I don't care for cds, it's a needless waste of space. Why should I pay for it? DVDs... er well ppl can write their won DVDs. Audio-sweetening? Each artist can be a small businessman too, nothing wrong with that. Same goes with concert and etc. If they have enough fame, they can make concerts themselves.

When you cut down on the distribution chain, you get products cheaper. Current tech allows that, but current business model doesn't support that.

That being said, I consider getting something for nothing as morally wrong. But big businesses don't have it right either, by forcing something on the consumers who wants things differently.

In fact BB tactic violates the US constitution of promoting arts and science. I'm sorry I just don't see how a 70 year copyright protection is at all necessary. The purpose of copyright is now no longer the promotion of "useful arts and science" as outlined in the US constitution, but rather profitability.

Which side I pick... currently the consumer is the lesser of the two evil.

I can't think of any real business model (other than word-of-mouth) to get independent artists out there.

Radio stations don't really play independent artists - except for college stations (no range) or the occasional weekly hour on a commercial station.

Almost no band does their own audio work. It requires a ton of cash - trust me on this one. If you find an independent rock band capable of creating a high-quality-sounding production on their own - DIRT cheap - let me know. Directional mics, cables, studio mixers, computer software, it all costs money. Trust me.

You're right; copyright law now is a travesty. Thank Disney for that one.

[Hunter_Of_Peace]

I'm glad I read this thread. Now I'm positive that fansubbing is illegal and I'm not going to be tempted to thinking wether it's right or wrong again. Viva La Animators and Creators. Now if only I had money.

[Devyndrynn]

So now that we've done the legality of the issue to death, let's bring up the practicality.
An anime dubbing company in the US licenses an anime. Now they become uptight about how you may watch said anime.
Their options for you:
1. Shell out $5-$15 per episode (note-I say episode, not disk), only to find out that you don't like the anime and now that you've opened the disk, you can't return it.
2. Watch their edited, kiddied version on the Saturday morning (or whatever time and day) cartoon hour, and decide that the anime is horrendous (never mind that it may have been fabulous before it was edited).
3. Pray that they release an unedited version that you may or may-not be able to find at your local rental place, (if your local rental place even happens to carry any anime) so that you can see if you even like the series before shelling out hundreds of dollars for the whole series.

Honestly, if American companies had the option to watch a few episodes online, in their full, unedited glory, (even if you had to go to their site and watch it there) they could gain more fans of their product.


I for one am offended at both the immense editing and the continually lousy voice work that often comes out of American companies. Nothing like hearing that the One Piece pirates now play with pop-guns, suck lollipops, and speak like they've been gargling sandpaper in Brooklyn (poor Sanji). :mad:
That is not to say that I won't buy Dubbed works, so long as the anime is unedited, there is a Japanese track, and I've assessed my like of the series beforehand. Just like buying a home, car, computer, etc. I research the products that will cost me that much. (Heck, I could probably insure my anime collection. Heaven knows it's probably in the $5,000 range now.)

[Leader Desslock]

^Regarding the options you list above:
1. I've never bought a disk that I didn't like, just because I've always researched everything before I ever bought it. There are very few released anime for which you can't find detailed reviews, screen shots, etc. online nowadays, but if there was a title I couldn't find, I could always ask on a forum just like this one. :)
2. I don't have TV, so this isn't an issue for me. But even without this source of information, I've never bought a bad disk.
3. I rent through Netflix. They've got a broad enough anime selection to keep me busy for a while, I should think. And they do provide detail about which titles have Japanese VA tracks, so I've always managed to get subs, no problem.

However, I'd like to point out that you forgot an option:
4. Don't Buy The Product If It's Not What You Want. That is, if you'd prefer to download/stream versions via a subscription from the anime studios/distributors directly, then stop buying their physical products. When they stop making money, they'll change their business model. They have no pressing reason to do that as long as they're continuing to make money, do they? Same goes with bad VA's, heavily edited series, etc. If you don't like what they're producing, don't buy it. When enough people do this, they'll change their business practices.

Oh - and not buying the stuff you don't like isn't just practical and common sense, it's also legal. :thumbsup:

Example - I hate the way a company like Viz releases three episodes on a disk, only to later on release collected box sets with 4-5 episodes/ disk. They did it with Ranma, they're doing it with InuYasha, and if they don't do it with Naruto, I'll be amazed. So what do I do? I don't buy the initial releases. I wait for the box sets. Easy enough, and I don't waste my money buying things that aren't what I want. I can then spend that money on the other series in which I'm interested, or on manga, or on those other funny things in my life called 'bills'.

[Malchiel]

Good place to get information on the other side of the argument.

http://www.eff.org/


Oh and desslock get off that high and mighty attitude will you. Tell me one reason why should anybody care if things are legal or not?

Oh - and not buying the stuff you don't like isn't just practical and common sense, it's also legal.

And I proved by contradiction that legal is not the same as good, or even right by evidenced in the slavery. Now don't go on a tangent now about how slavery is not relevant and etc etc.

Let me give you the break down

1) We assume legal is always good
1.5) Legal was good (by definition of "is always")
2) Slavery was legal
3) HERE GOES THE CONTRADICTION Slavery was good... NOT!
4) Conclusion by contradiction abiding to ALL the laws of logic legal is NOT always good

Now let me just teach you a bit, if you want to argue back give me an argument that logically "flows" like the above. Yes this is a very valid mean of proofing and disproofing a theorem with numerous applications.

Saying that slavery is a 100 yr old issue is not cutting it. Since all of my statements follow the rules of logic, if you want to dispute my claim, you need to disprove my premises, which're: "the assumption that legal is always good" or the assertion that "slavery was legal" or the definition of "is always". Don't even bother attacking the proof by contradiction, it's as foolproof as it gets. It's a time honored mean of proofing or disproofing a claim.

If this confuses you, I suggest you brush up on your logic. I'd really hate see a reply that's irrational. This shouldn't be difficult with your profession.

Okay here is my closing argument then. If legal is not necessarily good, why should anyone even bothers? If they think that downloading off the web coz the release is faster and they can always purchase it later, what's wrong with that? It might be illegal, but it might be good at the same time too.

ps. let's skip pass the personal attacks, the sarcasm and such ok. If you really want to show me your intelligence just disproof my claim in a logical manner.

[Leader Desslock]

Good place to get information on the other side of the argument.

Hey! Thank you for finally providing a link, as that's all I asked. There's a lot of good information there. So much so, that you probably missed this section:

http://www.eff.org/share/

Please allow me to quote them: "It's time to face the fact that in today's world, copyright law is broken. Our current copyright regime makes criminals out of music lovers....Industry representatives say that the subpoenas and lawsuits are necessary to protect recording artists. But suing fans doesn't pay artists. Neither does threatening every Internet user's civil liberties. We need a constructive solution. EFF advocates offering fans a legal way to use P2P programs while ensuring that artists get paid."

It then goes on to post a link to information on how artists can get paid:

http://www.eff.org/share/?f=compensation.html

Now, the two underlined passages in the quote were highlighted by me, and that's because I'd like to point out something you appear to be missing as well.

Point 1: "Our current copyright regime makes criminals out of music lovers" - Hmm. I'm a music lover, and I have quite a collection. Yet I've never downloaded any music. I've paid for it all, so clearly, I'm no criminal. Same goes for a lot of people, I'd imagine. So it seems they've made an error in their logic there. So should I dimiss what they're saying entirely? No, that might be rash. I'll just continue.

Point 2: " EFF advocates offering fans a legal way to use P2P programs while ensuring that artists get paid."

AH! Now we get to it. I guess it's a good idea that I didn't entirely dismiss them for their hyperbole in Point 1. The EFF advocates changes in the industry to provide means to fans to do things that are: a) legal, and b) beneficial to the artists, who must be compensated.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along? Haven't I been saying "If you want to steal, steal. Just call it stealing"? Haven't I been saying that the reason it's wrong is because the artists don't get compensated for their work?

If you look through the rest of their site, you'll see a lot of legal motions being filed, and I find some of them interesting. I see cases where they don't oppose a digital right-related law, but they would like a clarification of its sentencing guidelines. There's a great section on Author's rights as well. I notice that they don't advocate fans removing rights from the author (i.e.: choice of distribution); instead, they're working to strengthen an author's rights in relation to the publishers. Interesting.

They also advocate the rights of the author when it comes to the released work - i.e.: not only does an author have the right to have their name associated with a work, but if the author doesn't have control over the final cut, he also has the right to make sure his name is removed from the work entirely. Something about the theatrical release of Blade Runner comes to mind there. But hey - this is an interesting point - do the artists have final say over the content of fansubs? And if not, aren't the fansubbers guilty of eroding artists' rights? Yep, interesting stuff, all right.

I also notice that there's a big list of artists on the site who have chosen to distribute their works electronically, and who do get compensated for their work. That's good. Notice that the site does not advocate the stealing of music from artists who do not choose to distribute their content electronically, however. Those are two different things, if you hadn't noticed.

Oh and desslock get off that high and mighty attitude will you. Tell me one reason why should anybody care if things are legal or not?

And I proved by contradiction that legal is not the same as good, or even right

You know what? You're right. Legal isn't the same as good, and I agreed with that point before. I think your choice of examples is too far off the end of the spectrum to be relevant, but what do I know? I'm clearly a novice at all this 'logic' stuff. So I'll beseech the Grand Master: Give me a logical argument for the downloading and viewing of copyrighted materials that shows that it is 'right' to do so even if the creator of the work does not get compensated.

If that's too hard, then you could always aim a little lower and change your argument to say that it's only 'right' when the creator gets compensated. But then, what would you say to those people who just want to preview a series, then decide not to buy it? :) Or those folks who just don't have the money?

Oh - and one other caveat. I shouldn't even have to mention this, but it'd perhaps be best if we could agree on a pertinent example. Let's just assume for a moment that we're talking about a simple entertainment broadcast and nothing life-threatening or infringing on human rights.

I suggest you brush up on your logic before attempting this one.

If they think that downloading off the web coz the release is faster and they can always purchase it later, what's wrong with that?

Thank you for restating my initial point! :lol: See, folks - it does always boil down to "I just don't want to wait/pay for my entertainment." Interesting use of "always purchase" in that statement, too. Hey, if people always purchased what they watch, I'd have less of a problem with it.

[Malchiel]

"Thank you for restating my initial point! See, folks - it does always boil down to "I just don't want to wait/pay for my entertainment."

You aren't getting it. You can't attack the conclusion, you attack the premise, because the conclusion is derived from the premises. Also, notice the inclusion of the "if" condition You didn't attack my main argument, you attacked a side note of my conclusion. Either show me my premises are wrong or my logical deduction is faulty. Sorry Desslock, no cookie for you.

What more, if you look at those sites, the music industry is also to blame on the death of many innovation.

There's also an argument that knowledge is of the people for the people, since every knowledge builds upon previous knowledge. This also includes work of art. Some ppl view it as the ethical responsibility of artists to return that knowledge back. (I don't agree with this completely, but may be 50-50) Hey I'm somewhat an artist too, and I base my work by copying other people's style. I can see some truth to this argument also.

Oh - and one other caveat. I shouldn't even have to mention this, but it'd perhaps be best if we could agree on a pertinent example. Let's just assume for a moment that we're talking about a simple entertainment broadcast and nothing life-threatening or infringing on human rights.

Hmmm I don't need to prove anything, since I only deny your claim. I didn't assert what's good, I didn't assert what's bad. I have no need to proof anything. I am only the one who denies your claim. I denied logically, that's sufficient.

What's the conclusion so far then? Well for once you can't just simply tell ppl to stop downloading coz it isn't legal. Although you might make a valid point, your statement carries little water unless you can substantiate it. Because for ppl who don't believe in the legal system that holds little weight. To argue your point, you need proof based on a commonly agreed ground.

It'd be almost like saying, this right or that's wrong because the bible said so. Which'd be fine if I believe in the bible to begin with. Your positition is the same, as an evangelist of the legal system, a system which I don't believe in, you need to proof that legal system is a reliable guide for goodness and wrongness. Simply saying the "law says so" is a cyclical argument. Law says X and you argue X by citing the Law. You see?

Sorry Desslock, I wish we had something we could agree on to base our argument from. I thought logic was a good choice since you claimed to be in the IT, so it should be something you're extremely familiar with.

[Devyndrynn]

I'm facinated that people seem to gravitate toward discussing legality issues, then say that it is mostly peer-to-peer or other methods of download from the internet that causes problems. Wrong, that is merely the easiest way to track when people have been sharing such entertainment (whether it be music, video, software, etc.).
People have been taking entertainment for their own enjoyment from unauthorized/illegal sources since they made radios with tape decks, VCRs, and people who can crack code on available software.
It's been going on a long time, and suddenly deciding that enough is enough and slapping huge fines and large, publicity-driven lawsuits upon people only draws that previously underground piracy out into the open. Suddenly people who may have not heard of means to pirate entertainment before, now have the incentive to go out and search for new ways of doing it. I understand that the industry seeks to make examples so that others will not follow in those footsteps, but aren't they just encouraging worse?

And yes, Desslock we understand by now that you're so very proper, and lawful, and have an aversion to people who are willing to walk the other side; but until the industry gets off its collective backside and begins to deal with the underlying ussues at hand rather than wasting everyone's time with frivolous legalities, I have only one thing to say... Arrrrr. All pirates aboard.

Note: This is only an opinion and does not encourage active piracy. Therefore, if you do pirate, don't blame me.

[AchtungAffen]

MP3's ahoy!

[chugg666]

It seems to me that it doesnt matter whether its legal or illegal. If downloading something that I want (that isnt distributed in the US yet or ever) is illegal, who cares. No one is ever gonna come looking for me, since I'm not taking money from anyone's pocket. If these companies care about me buying their product, they can release it for me domestically. I do at least one illegal thing per day, so something this trivial is no big deal. If I'm gonna worry about anything, its gonna be those 3 seventeen year olds I slept with last year. Now that warrants concern. LOL

[Little-Q]

Note: this may be a tad (or two, or five) off-topic.

Point 1: "Our current copyright regime makes criminals out of music lovers" - Hmm. I'm a music lover, and I have quite a collection. Yet I've never downloaded any music. I've paid for it all, so clearly, I'm no criminal.

Well, yes, there are many who actually buys the cd's, and all know that that isn't a crime. But (maybe this is too recent, or not affecting the country you live in) new laws (in my country) says that it's illegal to put the music that I legally bought into my, say, mp3-player or iPod. It's also illegal to rip it off to your computer, even if you don't intend to share it with the rest of the world. So, basically, every time I walk around downtown, listening to my mp3-player (which is way too young to be retired), I'm breaking the law. Of course, this may just be me being very slow, and it is in fact like this in your country too (I don't know where you live or your laws - go figure), but it seems that all the illegal stuff that the fans 'commit', isn't because they're too lazy or poor to do the 'right' thing.

People have been taking entertainment for their own enjoyment from unauthorized/illegal sources since they made radios with tape decks(...)

A good point which I think have been avoided. If I've understood this discussion correctly, it's saying that if I record music onto tape from the radio, I'm breaking the law, and are therefore a criminal. WTH?


Another thing; if fansubbing is so wrong, and the copyright belongs to some obscure japansese guy and his company (seeing as the anime is unlicenced in the US), why doesn't the company sue the fansubbers? Or what about the artist, why doesn't he sue, since he owns it? And if it's so horribly illegal, making criminals out of the lot of us, then why is fansubbing very much alive in this day and age? Surely it isn't because a part of the fandom doesn't want to pay for their anime.

That is what I'v been buggered by since I started reading this thread. Hopefully it'll be of some good too. :)

[Devyndrynn]

If I've understood this discussion correctly, it's saying that if I record music onto tape from the radio, I'm breaking the law, and are therefore a criminal. WTH?
Yes. Technically true. Everyone who has taped anything off the radio has made an illegal copy. And everyone who has taped a tv show/movie off some channel or another... Yet now they sell DVD recorders/hard drives for your TV that do just that, and the entertainment industry isn't going after them for that. Bloody hypocrites.

Another thing; if fansubbing is so wrong, and the copyright belongs to some obscure japansese guy and his company (seeing as the anime is unlicenced in the US), why doesn't the company sue the fansubbers? Or what about the artist, why doesn't he sue, since he owns it? And if it's so horribly illegal, making criminals out of the lot of us, then why is fansubbing very much alive in this day and age? Surely it isn't because a part of the fandom doesn't want to pay for their anime.
Maybe they actually see that it's not worth the time and effort to go after fansubbers. After all it's getting their product to a wider variety of people, who will rave about it to friends who want it, buy it, and rave to their friends. The cycle continues, and I'm sure that for every fansubber out there there is one person who insists on buying the original, who may have not even heard of the series if one of their friends hadn't gotten a fansub.
Besides, it costs money and time to sue that many people and in the end a lot of them are unable to pay any fines they may get. (being underage, claiming bankruptcy, etc.) So the option is ignore the fansubbers and probably get more sales, or sue the subbers in an effort to shut them down and lose money. Choice seems logical to me. Why don't american companies get it?

That is what I'v been buggered by since I started reading this thread. Hopefully it'll be of some good too. :)
You talk about your country. I'm gonna assume, not England. Their definition of buggered is slightly different. (PM me if you want to know the difference)

[Little-Q]

Maybe they actually see that it's not worth the time and effort to go after fansubbers. After all it's getting their product to a wider variety of people, who will rave about it to friends who want it, buy it, and rave to their friends. (...) Choice seems logical to me. Why don't american companies get it?

Exactly! For all I know, the american companies allow fansubbing of unlicensed anime because they aren't the ones 'losing' money. Because, honestly, who many of you would have watched, Naruto for example, on toonami or some kiddies channel without having seen the fansub first?

It seems to me that fansubbers everywhere are doing the (american) companies a huge favor, and all they get is how criminal they are. So why are we having this (rather laughable at times) discussion?




You talk about your country. I'm gonna assume, not England. Their definition of buggered is slightly different. (PM me if you want to know the difference)

No, not England, Norway in fact. So forgive my faulty english. And I'm not so sure I really want to know what you englishmen mean when you say buggered. :unsure::redface:

[flashgame]

i am a newbie ,I am glad to come here,I think this is a good place.

[kenzushi]

Hey if anyone wants there own forum you can make a free invision power board here in less then 5 minutes http://freeipbhost.com its pretty mad so check it out ^_^'

[AnimeLoverGirl]

Hey if anyone wants there own forum you can make a free invision power board here in less then 5 minutes http://freeipbhost.com its pretty mad so check it out ^_^'
Thanks :D

[Maxximo]

Need so help finding a good fansubs site to join? Anyone have answers P.M. me Thanks

[Malchiel]

A nice interesting article about copyright.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7184897/

This article doesn't lean one way or another, and it pretty much describes my position on the issue.

1) Current copyright system is borked... let us create a new, fairer copyright system. Let's make something where both consumers and producers can reap benefits. Unfortunately greedy businesses are unlikely to change unless forced to do so, that goes for most of us too.
2) Knowledge is of the people for the people, not one work is made without the inspiration of another. There shouldn't be such thing as copyright: all rights reserved.
3) Yes consumers will have to pay! Getting something for nothing is a violation of the natural law. Remember Newton's 3rd law? :P

So there, that's my stance on the issue, coming from a reasonable source. ^^

[Koga]

I have a question about animesuki.com when ever I download a series and try to play it on realplayer it never works it says somthing is wrong with the file and it won't play does anyone know what I am doing wrong? >_<

[Malchiel]

Of course it doesn't you tweet ><, get this (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/)

[reki]

I'm wondering how long it takes others to download Bittorent files. I don't totally understand the process of this mirror system, but there definitely seems to be times that it downloads faster than other times. With dial up it was 17 hours for one half hour episode. With high speed internet its around an hour, depending on ?, sometimes slower, sometimes faster. Any thoughts?

[Alexei]

^1 I've noticed that if the Seeders outnumber the leechers, your download rate will be super. I got 600kbs once. :ph34r:

I can usually get an episode in an hour to 8 hours. Depenging on the s/l ratio. Note: I download 2+ at a time, so my download rate per file is cut in half, into thirds, etc etc.

I have a question about animesuki.com when ever I download a series and try to play it on realplayer it never works it says somthing is wrong with the file and it won't play does anyone know what I am doing wrong? >_<

Realplayer is the retarded mans player. Stick with Windows Media Player, and BS Player.

[Kakura]

Or go to VLC. Its much better, and it plays almost anything.

[reki]

Alexei, How do you download two at a time? With Bittorrent they just cue up when I try, and still end up one at a time.
Kakura, what or who is vlc?
thanks

[Solid_Snake]

Hey, I use an ABC: Torrent and I am wondering if my Comp gets turned off(without being paused) will my download be ruined?

[Devyndrynn]

Hey, I use an ABC: Torrent and I am wondering if my Comp gets turned off(without being paused) will my download be ruined?
Nope... Well... shouldn't be. I've never lost any torrents on ABC from a shutdown, but there's always a first time. Save the torrent onto your computer before you start it, then of you lose it, just reopen it from your computer. When it asks you where to save your file, just pick the name you had it under last time, and it'll pick up where it left off.



And reki, look into ABC, or BitLord. Those are two I know offhand that can track multiple torrents at once.

[yangster]

Fansub newbie here. When I d/l a bit torrent does it matter which mirror/host I pick? Also, can someone post/pm me some good torrent sites? All I know is AnimeSuki and Box Torrent. Thanks.

[reki]

Can somebody tell me: 1) p2p sharing is only on the currently downloading file? 2) What about previously downloaded files? I change mine after downloading, wondering if it affects the sharing. Thought it was only the current download. I'm trying to not leech! I haven't always kept the download open, mostly didn't know any better... But working on it. Downloads are taking longer and longer, trying to figure out why. And I have been trying to reconfigure my firewall, still not sure I got it right yet.

[Maxximo]

I use BitTornado Version0.3.10 really don't have a problem with downloads. But remember that people use different files to upload there fansub so you have to have different plug-in in order to view them. I see the Boxtorrent.com have this problem more.

I thank why downloads are taking longer is because theres not a lot of seeders on that download. Ask other on that site to seed it. The older the file is the more likly you will have problem with the download.


Hope that help out...

[Avialle]

What doesn't make sense to me, as some others I've seen here have mentioned already (yes, I know I'm being redundant), is why we can discuss fansubs at all on this particular forum, yet we can't talk about companies that sell . . . well sometimes sell . . . legitimate copies. 8^| My . . . brain . . . can't . . . grasp . . . the concept! :^P

In regards to BitTorrents, I use Azureus. I love this program. :^D

[Leader Desslock]

You know, that's a very good question. Unfortunately, AN won't likely give you an answer that makes much more sense. On the one hand, AN discourages discussion of licensed series, etc. On the other hand, they have a whole Naruto forum, because they evidently wouldn't want to alienate fans. You can't link a site that shows an example of a bootleg copy (for reference purposes), but you can talk about downloading series all you want. Unless they're licensed. Unless they're popular.

I say it's a wishy-washy avoidance of the issue, but it's their forum, so I guess they can do what they want. Doesn't matter to me, but until they represent themselves a bit differently, I don't need to buy anything from them personally. You can all you want, though.

[Wandering One]

1. Yes. The key is (usually) your upload speed. If your upload is 100% of its capacity (with - say, a 20 kb/s max, you're uploading 20 kb/s) watch your d/l speed drop to somewhere close to 0.

I cap my total u/l speed at around 16 kb/s and my download speed is still something like 100 kb/sec.

2. Ten complete series!?! Um...I don't know about that...
Ten episodes, on my ADSL connection, yes.

Actually, whoa whoa whoa, I can't help but look at this one (I came in reading this, as I do with all other posts) and have to explain.

1. Yeah, you're download speed is going to slow down, but let me explain, it has nothing to do with the upload rate, nothing at all. In fact, better the upload, it's just that your bandwidth is cut into little slices and assigned to each download, so if you did that, each download would go around 1-2 kbs/sec if you were lucky.

2. Yeh, 10 is a bit much, just be patient, it takes just 1 about a week or so.

Lol, this might've been answered, but lol, who cares?

[Wandering One]

I know this would be a double post, but I'm doin it anyhow.

I also have to face the fact of legality over illegality. The situation is, people, profits. That's all people are really complaining about, when a company stands up to "ruin" your "fun" at getting fansubs, let'em and stop complaining for crying out loud, it was their product in the first place.

Yes, I'm probably not one to talk, for I have downloaded several series in the past, but I'm done doing that now, I own many, many series of anime on disc that I legally bought, and I do feel that sense of happiness in owning them and not double clicking them on my computer.

The issue stands that this whole thing started in Japan and I'd like it to end that way. Those peopel who chose to sub it and release it really had no right or reason. So instead of the companies punishing us, they should look in their own country, that is the only way I will agree with the fansub-watchers complaining that something got licensed.

However, on the other side, I do understand the lack of money problem. If you don't have money, you can't buy anime, that is really the only reason I can see for turning to illegal acts. This is just like acting like a kid, you eat the cookie and lie that you didn't do it. That's what you're doing here, you download the file, yet you hold no claim over it when it becomes liscenced.

I'm sorry for sounding redundant, I just wanted to state some things.

[Leader Desslock]

Aye, laddie. Spoken true, an' that's no lie. Well done. :thumbsup:

[Wandering One]

Thanks, ^-^ I'm sorry, I just hate all the bickering. I'm going for the debate team, and you, you sir, are a fine debater yourself. ^_^ I think you just rock at arguing, not a strong suit, but you're skills are fine tuned, I'm not trying to sound concieted, but I'm not that bad myself. ^_^

[Leader Desslock]

Thank you. *bows* There are quite a few others on this forum better than I am. I suffer from being too verbose. With the length of some of my posts, it looks more like I'm trying to win a debate through attrition than through reasonable consideration of discussion points. Ah, well. Other people get mad, I get wordy.

The mark of a great debater is whether they can defend both side of the argument equally well. I've contemplated doing this on the fansub issue just to be funny. I can picture getting responses of 'YOU HYPOCRITE' in large boldface fonts.

My sister was the state debate champion for a few years running in high school, so if I have any ability at all at formulating arguments, it's thanks to her. Back then, it was a survival skill. My parents would go away for a week, and when they got back, we each had to produce our own version of why things went wrong, and who was to blame. Tired parents can be harsh judges when it comes to that sort of thing... :lol:

Good luck with the debate team. It'll help prepare you more than you might realize, particularly if you're going into management or the tech industry. Engineers just LOVES to argue about stuff.

[MagicianCamille]

^ YOU HYPOCRITE!


Done.

[Wandering One]

Yes, I tend to get wordy too, but people at school label me as concieted -_-;; or "smart." They need to get out of the teenager phase, the world is changin' fast peeps!

I can see that it is a vital part of many jobs, and I just love debating over things, it's so much fun. I like defending both sides, but sometimes I just love going one-sided and having a butt-load of facts, a plethera if you will, and I just can't be dodged or gotten around, so the enemy forces to retreat, it's so much fun.

I wish you luck in your quest against NA! Or... as you said, just trying to understand! *Salutes.*

[Leader Desslock]

Thank you. I feel as though a weight has been lifted. :) Nya.

[Irons]

Get back on topic! :P

And for the record I too have always silently laughed to myself when I think about how AN doesn't support downloading anime yet they have kept the Naruto forum open. Then again, why close it? Even when it's licensed people will download it. You can go to several Bit Torrent sites and download entire series of licensed shows, and you can get just about anything from IRC, so it's not like people will stop just because AN closes the Naruto forum. Hell, there are several sites that offer direct downloads of Naruto, so take that for what it's worth. Maybe having the forum does promote illegal downloading, but the truth is there are always several topics in the general anime section about licensed or soon to be licensed shows that have not aired in the US (Samurai Champloo had its own forum for a short time despite being licensed in the US before it finished airing in Japan), so even if you close the forums people will still talk about it elsewhere on the site.

Oh and the "They support fansubs but not legit anime distributers" is incorrect. The reason those sites are ****'d out is because promoting them hurts AN's sales. It's not that they don't support the legitament distribution of licensed shows, it's that they don't support you buying it from other people.

Of course maybe if they lowered their prices some of us would. ;)

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

I do have a question.

When a anime is fansubbed,is the actuall content of what the character sometimes changed depending on who fan subbs it?Do they edit it?Or leave it as it was originally sad,merely translated from one language to another?

[deepspace55]

:naughty: heh i rather enjoy them myself

[Leader Desslock]

When a anime is fansubbed,is the actuall content of what the character sometimes changed depending on who fan subbs it?Do they edit it?Or leave it as it was originally sad,merely translated from one language to another?
When an anime series is subtitled (either by fans or professionally by someone licensed to do so), the accuracy of the sub script depends on the intent of the person/group doing the job. Some people/groups go for accuracy, while some don't. Some people/groups want to translate the speech directly (i.e.: what was literally said), while others want to translate the meaning or feel of the dialogue (i.e.: what would an English-speaking character say in a similar situation). This isn't limited to subtitles, either. The folks writing dub scripts also have to decide on the focus of their translation - and that's before the actors get involved to add their own interpretation of the characters. And all of this is outside of the fact that concepts expressed in one language may not even be expressible in another language.

Short answer: The accuracy of a given translation (dub or sub) depends on the content being translated, the languages used, the group that does the work, the artistic intent of the work being done, and the work's final execution. Some combinations of these result in accurate translations, while others do not. It's up to the viewer to decide for him/herself which is 'better', in the end.

[deepspace55]

When an anime series is subtitled (either by fans or professionally by someone licensed to do so), the accuracy of the sub script depends on the intent of the person/group doing the job. Some people/groups go for accuracy, while some don't. Some people/groups want to translate the speech directly (i.e.: what was literally said), while others want to translate the meaning or feel of the dialogue (i.e.: what would an English-speaking character say in a similar situation). This isn't limited to subtitles, either. The folks writing dub scripts also have to decide on the focus of their translation - and that's before the actors get involved to add their own interpretation of the characters. And all of this is outside of the fact that concepts expressed in one language may not even be expressible in another language.

Short answer: The accuracy of a given translation (dub or sub) depends on the content being translated, the languages used, the group that does the work, the artistic intent of the work being done, and the work's final execution. Some combinations of these result in accurate translations, while others do not. It's up to the viewer to decide for him/herself which is 'better', in the end.

and the sub printing is sometimes small too

[Jake]

abot bittorrent: can I start downloading something and finish it at another time? I only have dialup, and I can't go 10 hours straight, even through the night. Can I do something like 3 hours a night? If so, how?

[The Million Dollar Prons]

abot bittorrent: can I start downloading something and finish it at another time? I only have dialup, and I can't go 10 hours straight, even through the night. Can I do something like 3 hours a night? If so, how?


Yeah, if you close a torrent, or pause it, you can download it later. If you are using the offical bittorent client just right click a torrent while it's downloading, and select "Download Later", and later right click it again and click "Download".

[Jake]

Ah! I see, thanks a lot. You saved me from not getting sleep again tonight!

[deepspace55]

:naughty: bit torrent is a wasre of time if you have dial up thuogh.

you'll be waitin quite a few days for you dl.

[Firstchild13]

I have a question about import dvd's, I buy import DVD's from places like ***** and AnimeArigato all the time and sometimes the subtitles are great and there are no misspellings and other times they are horriable and don't make very much sense. For example I bought Gungrave as an Import and the subtitles sucked and the picture quality wasn't that great however, I bought Monster as an Import and the subtitles were great along with the picture.

However, most fansubs are pretty well done, and I was just wondering why an fansub can be such good quality but not a dvd.

If anyone knows this answer that would be great and

Downloadanime.org is a great site for fansubs
Boxtorrents.com
is another awesome site

[deepspace55]

thats how it goes though,some are excellent and some not.

thats the good and bad of bootlegging

and as i said,dial up is for the birds.

if thats all you have thats fine,but usually for good dl speed cable or dsl is the
ticket.

[yangster]

Your buying bootlegs.

[Soluzar]

Downloadanime.org is a great site for fansubs
Boxtorrents.com
is another awesome site

BoxTorrents do serve fansubs on their tracker, but they serve little you can't get from AnimeSuki, except fansubs which have now become licenced, or worse yet, full DVD rips of licenced anime. If you want to stick just to fansubs, you're safest going to AnimeSuki.

Having said that, you do sometimes get some older stuff which STILL isn't licenced on the BoxTorrent tracker.

[deepspace55]

yup yup animesuki is your best bet.

[Firstchild13]

BoxTorrents do serve fansubs on their tracker, but they serve little you can't get from AnimeSuki, except fansubs which have now become licenced, or worse yet, full DVD rips of licenced anime. If you want to stick just to fansubs, you're safest going to AnimeSuki.

Having said that, you do sometimes get some older stuff which STILL isn't licenced on the BoxTorrent tracker.



I agree with there isn't much that you can't find on boxtorrent that you can't find on AnimeSuki but you can finds lots and lots of OST which boxtorrent is the best site that I know of right now. But if you know of a better one please do share. I love Anime OST.

Also, does anyone know were I can find Samurai Gun.

[JusticeGundam]

Probably not the place but I'll give it a shot. Is there anyway I can download faster? Usually my download rate is around 30-80 kb/s(If lucky 150(Berserk manga :) ) But what can I do, or get to make it go fatser. Same goes with manga downloads(directly, not BitTorrent). My DR use to be 180 kb/s but now it downloads at 20-30 kb/s. I hear that firewalls cause these problems, but I am not sure.

[Soluzar]

Probably not the place but I'll give it a shot. Is there anyway I can download faster? Usually my download rate is around 30-80 kb/s(If lucky 150(Berserk manga :) ) But what can I do, or get to make it go fatser. Same goes with manga downloads(directly, not BitTorrent). My DR use to be 180 kb/s but now it downloads at 20-30 kb/s. I hear that firewalls cause these problems, but I am not sure.

Firewalls and routers can cause problems, but only when they aren't set up right. You can configure either to work properly with your BT program. You need to configure your router and firewall to open whatever ports you use. Also, if your ISP do "traffic shaping" then, there's not much you can do. Some ISPs can detect P2P data, and slow it down, while leaving web and email untouched. The trick that sometimes works, though, is if they only shape the traffic on the standard BT ports, you can get around it by using non-standard ones.

[yangster]

If you use Zone Alarm firewall then that could be the problem. You can get more info at AnimeSuki (http://forums.animesuki.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21) forums.

[wareta yume]

I'm 56k with norton and zone alarm, things usaly don't
load very fast for me >_<

[xxdreamergirlxx]

Is it wrong to download the first episode of a licensed anime to see if you like it enough to go out and buy it? I'm pretty sure it is illegal, but I don't see much of a difference between doing that versus viewing a dvd that came with Newtype or Shojo Beat... I would kind of think of it to be free advertising, but probably too many people would just watch the entire anime that way then.... (Just to be clear, I have never once downloaded an anime licensed or unlicensed.)

[Leader Desslock]

^ The difference is that the DVD in Newtype or Shojo Beat is licensed and legal, and the producers are being compensated (however) for it. They're also gettting feedback about the potential future interest in the show.

Downloading a fansub has none of that.

[Bradster]

^ The difference is that the DVD in Newtype or Shojo Beat is licensed and legal, and the producers are being compensated (however) for it. They're also gettting feedback about the potential future interest in the show.

Downloading a fansub has none of that.
How about the producers and distributors host the torrents? If it's gonna happen with or without their permission, they might as well get the useful info out of the transfer data... :P

[Leader Desslock]

As I have said a number of times in this and other threads, I have absolutely no problems with licensed and legal online distribution. None whatsoever. If an anime license holder wishes to distribute their title electronically, more power to them. Same goes for bands that willingly distribute some or all of their music electronically, electronic books, etc.

What I have a problem with is illegal, unlicensed downloads. In the context of this forum, that means downloads of either licensed (in the downloader's own area) or unlicensed anime titles.

[Bradster]

I know your position pretty well, and I was probably being snarky/not serious because I was suggesting that the legitimate companies host the torrents for the illegal files, since the bandwidth and access statistics associated with each file would also give them the feedback about how popular their series is.

[michael10]

hint hint XISOJAPAN i got t3 for 200 month share line 100mbit back home i had

and my japan line 500mbit um i do not know how much it is cuse its hack wifi he he and i order a custem card why i cna get 500 mbit long live warez dount ask me for any thing im lugit now but be for i wus in the sceen i ahd 900mbit OC12 lugit server nto soem hack FTP it wus nice now i just got 500mbit

[Hunter_Z]

Sorry if thishas been answered before, but when I dl some fansubs, I get an "error downloading codec" message when I play them on Windows Media Player. Why is that and is there a player I can dl to play them?

[Ban-chan]

I have VLC media player and everything, but my *stuff* won't play. What's going wrong?

[AchtungAffen]

Did you try G-spot to see how the video was encoded?

[wingzero]

I have a Question, what's a sticky?

[bobert2999]

I have a Question, what's a sticky?
if you mean sticky like what shows up next to a thread name, its a way of keeping that thread up as one of the fisrt threads on the page, and stays up there, so that it wont lose its place from the start page by getting pushed down by newwer, more popular threads. its tipicly something done by the moderators of a forum to display a thread that need immediate availibilty, like the rules or something, or something thats ever popular and needs easy access like this thread here...

[Burn_child]

I'm so happy that the question was answerd, i hadn't have no idee too.
Thanks at all.

[Geerozilla]

I dont know anything about downloading fansubs because i usually just copy them from my friends. I need to start doing it on my own because i like some anime they do not. So basicaly im asking were do i go to download fansubs, should i just use kazaa or aries or is there a diff alternative cause i heard those arent really that good quality. I already have the divx and codecs i need just not the source. What are the best sights in your opinion

thank you

[AchtungAffen]

E-mule
AniDB

[Kafreen]

Does anyone know where you can download saiyuki with bittorrent?

[bonbon868]

Does anyone have an opinion about best/worst fansubbers? Just wondering who does a good job and who to avoid.

[dunno001]

Does anyone know where you can download saiyuki with bittorrent?
Umm... it's called going out and buying it. ADV is releasing it in the double-barrel collections between 8-10 eps on 2 disks for MSRP $30 each. So for MSRP $180, you can get all 12 disks of the series. (Of course, shopping around should let you find it all for under $100.)

[raikage]

Does anyone have an opinion about best/worst fansubbers? Just wondering who does a good job and who to avoid.

Depends on the show. For example, last I heard AnimeONE had something like forty members, so the staff who works on this show might not be the ones who work on that show.

For some things (like Yakitake! Japan) there is only one group subbing it. Thankfully, I think A-E does an excellent job with it.

I believe Anime-Planet has a fansub comparison forum, but it's open to interpretation. How much is translated/left in raw Japanese (the old Naruto subs being a good example), whether or not a HS student's speech is translated as slang or not (Bleach) but those are merely subjective. The last 'bad' group I can think of was the old AnimeJunkies and they aren't around anymore.

[Solid_Snake]

Anyone know of any Torrent sites besides Box Torrents and Anime Suki?

[Danju]

Anyone know of any Torrent sites besides Box Torrents and Anime Suki?

http://www.animeyume.org

I use that to get OSTs and manga that will never come out here, but it does have a lot of fansub downloads. Definitely worth a try. =P

[RyoTD]

http://www.animeyume.org
*GLOMP!*

Hey, thanks. :P

[fireteen2006]

I have a question. Dose it matter which fansub group I use to dl a anime. There is only one fansub anime I download and it's bleach and I use Lunar anime, dose it matter which one I use.

[yangster]

No it doesn't. It's just which group you think does the best.

[Millenear]

Okay, I have a question I have been thinking about for a while:
If a company license a serie in US (for US distribution) would that concern me as well in Europe? As it says on some dvd.s imported from Us "for sale and rental in USA (and Canada) only". This should mean that I could continue downloading fansubs under Us license shouldn't it? Or am I wrong?

[yangster]

No, you can't. Most or all of the fansub groups would stop subbing it or cease distruibution. Some groups would continue subbing it if it hasn't finish yet in Japan but if it has then most will stop. There are some sites where you can still download it.

[Leader Desslock]

This should mean that I could continue downloading fansubs under Us license shouldn't it? Or am I wrong?
I'd say you're wrong. There is no such thing as downloading a fansub under a US license. I'm not actually sure what you're saying here, in fact.

[Soluzar]

I'd say you're wrong. There is no such thing as downloading a fansub under a US license. I'm not actually sure what you're saying here, in fact.

I'm pretty sure he meant: "This should mean that I could continue downloading fansubs of anime which are under a US license shouldn't it? Or am I wrong?"

My additions to that sentance are colored red.

My answer: I live in Europe too, and since I am able to order the DVDs in English from many sites, including this one, I have never taken my location as an indication that I can download anime which has been licensed. The Berne convention applies, even to unlicensed anime, and it is only through the forbearance of the owners that we are able to download fansubs at all. It would be unwise to abuse the priveledge. :)

[raikage]

Okay, I have a question I have been thinking about for a while:
If a company license a serie in US (for US distribution) would that concern me as well in Europe? As it says on some dvd.s imported from Us "for sale and rental in USA (and Canada) only". This should mean that I could continue downloading fansubs under Us license shouldn't it? Or am I wrong?

Most fansubbers will stop because the series has now been licensed in the US, so the question is sort of moot anyway.

If you were to find Swedish fansubs (I'd imagine that other non-English subs would continue), I doubt the US market would care very much -- since that would be a market the US couldn't really get into anyway.

[Kesef]

But what if it was the other way around. If Europe (or some other english speaking country) licensed an anime/manga which the US has no intention of licensing. Do American fans still think it's acceptable to download those subs?

[Millenear]

If you were to find Swedish fansubs (I'd imagine that other non-English subs would continue), I doubt the US market would care very much -- since that would be a market the US couldn't really get into anyway.

Yeah I thought so too... I was just curios I usually buy American (or Au- they're cheaper) dvds anyway.

[akpookie]

I got a question. What do I need to play an ".mkv" file? My computer doesn't recognize the file type. I downloaded a copy of the Elfen Lied ova and can't watch it because it's an .mkv file. What the heck is an .mkv file anyway?!?!

[Millenear]

Use media player classic instead of whatever player you use now.
-> http://www.divx-digest.com/software/media_player_classic.html
Some player just can't play mkv-files, this one can ^.^
Nowdays I play all my videos in media player classic cause I think it has much better audio than many other. ( It can also play dvd.s!)

[akpookie]

^Thanks, I'll give that a try.

[Maceart]

I don't get why no one will use the CCCP codec pack, one of the best ones out there. Plays every anime fansub format out of the box.

If you have Apple Mac OSX, use VideoLan Player.

If you have Linux, Mplayer is the way to go.

[sasha4455]

Do you know anything about www.mangapets.com ,someone was posting it .It looks prettygood and I got 10,000 Manga $ to pre-register. It took 20 seconds,fast and easy,and I get to be a founding member.

[akpookie]

I don't get why no one will use the CCCP codec pack, one of the best ones out there. Plays every anime fansub format out of the box.


I actually just got CCCP, because a Sailor Stars fansub called for it. Now that i have it I highly recommend it. It does play everything I throw at it.

[Igtenos]

Not 100% positive if this question belongs to this thread, but I figured it made the most sense to post it here....

Are there any fansub groups out that release fansubs specifically for use on the iPod format?

[Soluzar]

Not 100% positive if this question belongs to this thread, but I figured it made the most sense to post it here....

Are there any fansub groups out that release fansubs specifically for use on the iPod format?

None that I am aware of, and I don't expect the situation to change. Many fansub groups are adamant that their work is for the benefit of their own members, primarily, and for that reason, they don't tend to do unusual formats, unless their own members prefer them.

[AchtungAffen]

Well, don't know what Ipod uses, but Kaizoku Fansubs (the ones doing One Piece) started using MP4 format encoding with h264. I believe that would work on the PSP.

[Soluzar]

Well, don't know what Ipod uses, but Kaizoku Fansubs (the ones doing One Piece) started using MP4 format encoding with h264. I believe that would work on the PSP.

There's more than one kind of MP4 Codec, and I'm not at all sure that h.264 will work with the PSP. I'll test that and get back to you, but in a certain sense, both DivX and XviD are MPEG-4 codecs, so I doubt it.

[amandamadd]

oh ok thats good to know i suppose...

[Soluzar]

Actually, I won't test that. Not unless I encode a short clip myself. I forgot, I've still not got a big enough Memory Stick for anime. I've only got the standard 32mb Stick which is only good for game saves...

Next on my shopping list, ya know?

[amandamadd]

oh alright then... I dont know why im pretending to know what you're talking about... oh well it doesnt matter.

[angelkamui]

Thanks all for the tip i needed it now ill go check the sites thanks all

bye bye ^_^

[Soluzar]

oh alright then... I dont know why im pretending to know what you're talking about... oh well it doesnt matter.

Let me explain, then. MPEG-4 is a standard for digital video which was established by the Motion Picture Experts Group. There are many implementations of MPEG-4, which include, but are not limited to: DivX, XviD and h264.

The short answer is that more recent PSP firmwares do indeed play h.264, but older versions play a different type of MPEG-4 codec, and PSP video playback in general is in a state of flux at the moment. The original video format of the PSP was not h.264 though, which is what I based my answer on.

[Hagakure]

^ While that's an excellent discussion, and a good place for us to debate the issue of the illegality of downloading fansubs, I would still like to hear from an AnimeNation spokesperson on the issue I raised earlier:

As a legitimate vendor of licensed merchandise, why does AnimeNation condone the discussion of illegal download activity on their boards?

EDIT: Please note that I'm not looking for AN to justify their decision to me - it's their board, they can delete every third post containing the letter 'Q' if they want. I'm just curious to hear what that justification is. No flames, I'm just curious.

You definitely make some good logical points. People in this day and age already thinking "me" "me" "me". Anime is a luxury, it's not a right. People seem to think it's their right to watch certain anime by any means possible. By buying anime dvds, you're supporting someone's livelyhood, not just the creator, but all the people that help produce the product and bring it to the U.S.

So while some might use fansub for previewing purposes, others will just download fansub because it's free anime. And there's definitely a lot of people that are just downloading anime, because breaking the habbit of recieving fre anime is hard to do. Oh yeah, fansub get the buzz out: they spread the word of fansub to their friend, in which their friend will start dling. The buzz that encourage more illegal activies. Another argument is that anime companies arn't going after fansubber. Wrong, anime companies are going after fansubber. It's not a full scale attack, but companies like ADV and Fumination don't condone fansub. Also Media Factory, I think is a japanese companies that tried to go after some fansub too.

Just reading some of these thread about people asking where to download title such as Saiyuki is really ironic, because he/she arn't looking to buy the dvd. Even if he/she arn't likely to buy the series in the first place, nobody give them to right to take it for free. They choose to take it on their own will = stealing.

And it would be really ironic if someone post a link to Jungle Guu anime here, a license in which AN owns. I wonder if the people at AN will think twice about fansub because it's ovbious people take fansub for granted.

So in conclusion, work hard, earn money, support your hobby and keep the world turning by being a consumer (by spending) and not a pirate (by stealing).

[zero78]

hi people im the new guy yay! yugi like your avitar

[Soluzar]

Another argument is that anime companies arn't going after fansubber. Wrong, anime companies are going after fansubber. It's not a full scale attack, but companies like ADV and Fumination don't condone fansub.As long as it's not their property, they can condone or not condone whatever the hell they like. At the point at which they buy the license, they get to have a say, but not otherwise.

The rest of your post made a lot of sense, but you must remember that by definition, American companies have no legal rights to unlicensed anime. If they did, it would be licensed anime.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

...just asking...

...is school rumble licensed by any company? if so, by whom?...

...thanks...didnt know where to ask...

[RyoTD]

...just asking...

...is school rumble licensed by any company? if so, by whom?...

...thanks...didnt know where to ask...
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=4114

It's not licensed in the US, from what I can gather. Tokyopop Germany has licensed it in Germany (duh!), though.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

^^^ any of it coming over here in the US? or do we have to do the whole "waiting for advent children" thing? thanks btw...

[RyoTD]

Well, there are... ways to get School Rumble without having to wait for it to be licensed. :wink wink nudge nudge:

[GreatNekoKoneko]

Well, there are... ways to get School Rumble without having to wait for it to be licensed. :wink wink nudge nudge:

...oh...i get it...(wink, wink)...

[Caine]

Everything I ever wanted to know about fansubs? can you answer the eternal question?

Why do people hate fansubs and fansubbers with a passion that exceeds that of EVA fanboys?

[Leader Desslock]

I don't hate fansubbers. The question I find more interesting is "Why do many people who love fansubs and fansubbers hate bootlegs and bootleggers?"

Tricky things, language and perception. :)

[Caine]

because they see things in terms of what's moral, not what's legal, and morals aren't set in stone

[Soluzar]

I don't hate fansubbers. The question I find more interesting is "Why do many people who love fansubs and fansubbers hate bootlegs and bootleggers?"

Because they do it for money. I could care less about the legal issues, but if you're asking for money for copies of an anime that you didn't make, and didn't pay the creator for, then I kinda think of that as being against my own moral codes.

Fansubbers don't ask for money. They do it for free. Because it's not legal, and because it's not their own work, they don't try to profit from it. Whatever the legal issues are, I can respect that.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

Fansubbers don't ask for money.

I ask for money all the time.

Give me your money.

[Soluzar]

I ask for money all the time.

Give me your money.

*Checks pockets*

I got about six pounds on me. That's like ten bucks. It wouldn't even be worth your trouble to mug me. :P

[The Million Dollar Prons]

*Checks pockets*

I got about six pounds on me. That's like ten bucks. It wouldn't even be worth your trouble to mug me. :P


Give me your money. I could do wonders with 10 bucks. AIM btw.

[Nano]

I was never afraid to ask.

[RamenBoy]

Ok ok, if my following questions is against the Animenation rules then please tell me ASAP.. lol anyways, where can I get a "direct download" of the Naruto Movie? *crosses fingers*

[DazzleKitty]

I am trying to figure out how to use a torrent. I'm having some problems.

Firstly, does it take a long time for things to start downloading? It's been 0.0% forever now. I don't even know if I am doing it right.

[Lita]

Hi im new to downloading and fansubs i need help, when i download from a fansub can i just download it onto my computer to watch or do i need a to save it to disks

Please help me

Desperate woman here :) :naughty:

[Soluzar]

Hi im new to downloading and fansubs i need help, when i download from a fansub can i just download it onto my computer to watch or do i need a to save it to disks

Assuming that I've understood your question probperly, you can just save it to your computer. The only reason you'd need to put it on a disc is if you wanted to watch it on another computer, or on a standalone player.

I am trying to figure out how to use a torrent. I'm having some problems.

Firstly, does it take a long time for things to start downloading? It's been 0.0% forever now. I don't even know if I am doing it right.

It can take a while, but you should be seeing some kind of a transfer rate (even a low one) after an hour or so. If not, then something is wrong.

Ok ok, if my following questions is against the Animenation rules then please tell me ASAP.. lol anyways, where can I get a "direct download" of the Naruto Movie? *crosses fingers*

That would be against AnimeNation rules. Naruto is now licensed in the US, and as such, it's against forum rules to distribute the fansubs. You also don't find much in the way of anime direct downloads. The bandwidth requirements are phenomenal, which is why bittorrent is so popular.

[Hara!]

anything good out?

[Soluzar]

anything good out?

Depends on your definition. The Disgaea anime is out. I've not watched it yet though. Kerorero Gunso (Sergeant Frog) has been coming out slowly for some time now, and it does indeed rock. There's a new Sunrise mecha series out, called Zegapain, if that's your thing. It is my thing, but I've not got around to that one just yet. There's also the new Gaiking - Legend of Daiku Maryu anime out, which is a very simplistic, but very entertaining new super robot anime. It's subbed by a group I personally dislike, but I'm not letting that put me off too much. The show rocks. That's the one series I've been keeping up with just lately.

[Hara!]

Depends on your definition. The Disgaea anime is out. I've not watched it yet though. Kerorero Gunso (Sergeant Frog) has been coming out slowly for some time now, and it does indeed rock. There's a new Sunrise mecha series out, called Zegapain, if that's your thing. It is my thing, but I've not got around to that one just yet. There's also the new Gaiking - Legend of Daiku Maryu anime out, which is a very simplistic, but very entertaining new super robot anime. It's subbed by a group I personally dislike, but I'm not letting that put me off too much. The show rocks. That's the one series I've been keeping up with just lately.
I can only find up to ep. 8 of Keroro gunso subbed in english, but tons in chinese.

oh, and you hit me dead ringer with disgaea!

[Soluzar]

I can only find up to ep. 8 of Keroro gunso subbed in english, but tons in chinese.
A new group recently started, so I think that we will hopefully see an increase in the number of releases soon...

oh, and you hit me dead ringer with disgaea!
Kinda figured. :shifty:

[Lita]

Thankyou soluzar

[Soluzar]

Thankyou soluzar

Since you seem to be new to fansubs, I should point out that some of them might not work, unless you have the appropriate codecs and filters installed. There are two ways to deal with this.

1) You could install just the codecs and filters that you think you are going to need, which is arguably the most efficient method, since it doesn't lead to installing codecs you don't need. Instructions on how to install the most common filters and codecs are available here (http://www.animesuki.com/doc.php/help/playback.html). Please note that everything other than ffdshow should be considered "optional". You should only install the components that you will need.

2) or you can install a codec pack with pretty much everything, which is easier. The main drawback to this solution is that it will install everything, including things that you probably don't need. On the other hand, unless you have a certain amount of technical knowledge, it's a far simpler solution. If you choose to go this way, try the CCCP (http://www.cccp-project.net/).

I would also point out that you would be well advised not to use Windows Media Player to view fansubs. It uses a lot of system resources, and with high-resolution video files, that can cause lag. I always use Media Player Classic, which is included in both the CCCP, and in the set of instructions that I linked to for the individual components. There are alternatives, but since I have limited experience of them, I won't discuss them here.

It's possible that this information was of no use to you, but it cost me nothing to provide it, and it may well be of use to someone else. :)

[Lita]

Thanks soluzar

I tried to download digimon savers the download finished (it said 100%)

So i went to my windows media player (before i read your response) and tried to play it, it didnt work

Thanks for trying to help me but it dosnt make sense to me

When it comes to computers im a fickle woman ;)

My friend said something about my computer cant do avi files or something like that, does that make any sense to you

Thanks again :)

[Soluzar]

My friend said something about my computer cant do avi files or something like that, does that make any sense to you

Try installing CCCP, which I linked to above. Try to play the file with the player included with that pack, instead of with Windows Media Player. S/he may have meant that your computer doesn't have the appropriate codecs installed. There aren't many computers that "can't do avi files". If you bought your computer within the last few years, and it runs Windows, then CCCP should allow you to watch your fansubs.

[Lita]

I tried to do cccp soluzar but it said this file is either unavalible right now or cant be downloaded, please try later.

Ill try again later, my computer is about 5 years old, it has windows XP

Im just stupid

:)

[Soluzar]

I tried to do cccp soluzar but it said this file is either unavalible right now or cant be downloaded, please try later.
Try this alternate link (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Combined_Community_Codec_Pack.htm) for CCCP.

Ill try again later, my computer is about 5 years old, it has windows XP

Five years ago? Well, watching fansubs does require a moderate amount of ram, but there's a good chance your PC would be able to play them. If not, you could always try converting them to a VCD (if you have a CD burner) or a DVD (if you have a DVD burner) and watch them on your DVD player. That's a little more complex, though.

[Lita]

Yeah that link worked soluzar,the cccp is on my computer now, im just trying to download something now.

When its downloaded do i just go to the cccp, and its there.

Sorry to be wasting your time your a real help, Thankyou. :) :) :) :) :)

[Soluzar]

Yeah that link worked soluzar,the cccp is on my computer now, im just trying to download something now.

When its downloaded do i just go to the cccp, and its there.

When the CCCP is installled, you just need to open the AVI file, and that should start Media Player Classic. If it starts something else instead, close that and right-click the AVI file and choose to "Open With..." and select Media Player Classic.

[Lita]

:) Thankyou :)

[Lita]

(sighs)

I watched digimon savers

Then i tried to download something else, once it was downloaded i clicked on itand nothing happend, so i did the right click thing you said then went to open with, but there was only windows media player there, no classic

ive installed cccp

I tried to play it on normal media player, but it said it was unable to play it

cccp dosnt seem to of given me classic unless i set it up wrong

[master terrence]

no, I don't think cccp gives you classic, it didn't give me classic atleast, I d/led it seperately...then deleted it. I prefer the coremedia player, d/l that and you should be set if you have the cccp :D. Also when you d/l cccp it asks you not to use other codecs, if you have other codecs it might cause problems (I have xvid and it works fine though). It should work with windows media player 9 or 10 or whatever you have anyways, make sure you installed it correctly.

[Soluzar]

no, I don't think cccp gives you classic, it didn't give me classic atleast, I d/led it seperately...then deleted it. I prefer the coremedia player, d/l that and you should be set if you have the cccp :D.

It doesn't? I always install whatever codecs I need separately, but I'd was convinced that the CCCP installed at least one player.

[Lita]

So terrence how do i download the coremedia player, have you got a link please

Should i delete cccp

My current media player wont play downloads i dont know why

I need something new to play them on

i need help :) :) :)

[master terrence]

So terrence how do i download the coremedia player, have you got a link please

Should i delete cccp

My current media player wont play downloads i dont know why

I need something new to play them on

i need help :) :) :)

no, don't delete cccp

heres a link: http://corecodec.org/frs/?group_id=53&release_id=272#r272- choose the one for you (which means not the palm pilot ones foremost)

even if cccp doesn't kick in for whatever reason, there is high possibility of it playing anyways

I know it is a pain to go through all theese softwares, but believe me it pays off in the future.

[master terrence]

It doesn't? I always install whatever codecs I need separately, but I'd was convinced that the CCCP installed at least one player.

they offer a few, but not in a package, the codecs work for a plethora of players after all.

[Lita]

Thankyou terrence hopefully ill be able to watch my downloads now

:) Thanks :)

[The Million Dollar Prons]

And remember to download Space Runaway Ideon!

[Lita]

What type of anime is it prons?

[The Million Dollar Prons]

It's an awesome space anime. 100% recomended.

[Lita]

Ok ill give it ago prons thanks :naughty:

[Lita]

Can somebody msg me privately and tell me what fansubs are best to download from

Thanks :)

[AchtungAffen]

Check AniDB (http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl). They have a list of fansub groups working or having worked on anime, and ranking as well.

[VSh]

I prefer the coremedia player...
Hmm... I've never heard about it before... Just tried. Immediately ran into a bug - some hotkeys are global (space, for example).

K-Lite Codec Pack (http://www.codecguide.com/) is working for me the best under Windows.

[Soluzar]

Hmm... I've never heard about it before... Just tried. Immediately ran into a bug - some hotkeys are global (space, for example).

K-Lite Codec Pack (http://www.codecguide.com/) is working for me the best under Windows.

K-Lite installs far too much. It installs codecs that you will never need. In the past it also had plenty of bugs. I haven't used it in a long while, but I don't imagine they install less unwanted cruft than they used to.

[BENIHIME]

has ne1 seen millenium actress, it recently popped up in my local store, also, its from the makers of perfect blue .... but its expensive and actually seems kinda tame.

any advice??

yay first post

[Teankun]

Why hasn't someone done one for any of the "Zoids" series? I can't even find a bootleg.

[Soluzar]

Why hasn't someone done one for any of the "Zoids" series? I can't even find a bootleg.

Zoids Genesis: Fansubbed by TV-Nihon, I think. Google can do the rest for you.

[Teankun]

Zoids Genesis: Fansubbed by TV-Nihon, I think. Google can do the rest for you.

So, what about the other three?

[Cha0tika]

And I told my parents what I was downloading was finally legal... T_T

Oh well. *Carries on downloading anime*

[Soluzar]

So, what about the other three?
Sorry, I don't know. I thought the other Zoids series were licensed. I distinctly recall seeing one of them on the TV.

[Spiderx115]

Is nice?
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8551/cocobk1.gif :P

[Levon]

Sorry, I don't know. I thought the other Zoids series were licensed. I distinctly recall seeing one of them on the TV.

They are licensed, & according to AnimeSuki Genesis is licensed as well. So all Zoids are licensed.

We never got fansubs of Zoids: Chaotic Century(the best Zoids IMO), Zoids: New Century/Zero & Zoids: Fuzors. There are also no bootlegs.

Actually, I did download the first episode fansub of Zoids: Chaotic Century but I diddn't watch it & deleted it. Stupid me. I wish I still had it, I'v looked everywhere but can't find it. It was an old fansub release, maybe released in 1999 when the show first aired. You can get some random raws on some crappy PSP programs.


Someday, I plan to buy the R2's. And maybe even adding my own subs but I'd have to use the dub script for a lot of it because I don't know Japanese. So it would be like dubtitles-_-; But its better than nothing.
There are a few scenes that were cut in the US release, I could ask the Japanese or Spanish viewers if they could help me out on what was said durring those scenes. Like the shower scene & when Hiltz throws a guy off a cliff(which was one of the most pointless edits).

[master terrence]

^ if you start a fansubbing group, maybe I'll help you with spanish subtitles.

[master terrence]

incorrect, most chans say they are illegal(#Lunar), but don't care because law doesn't dictate my life..- mexicans are illegal too, but people still eat tacos. so chill with the "fansubs are illegal" because we know... we just happen not to care one bit because many of us don't watch licensed material... material we can actually get out hands on.


BTW, my avatar is from an amazing anime you will NEVER see in english.

[sasami-riyo]

Poof!
I appeared as quickly as I vanished...o.O

[deepspace55]

true,most folks are trackingj the music downloads is whar thier coming down on.

[bnneal]

I sell political cartoons for a living. We represent artists from all over the world. Use of their images, without the permission of the artist, or their agents is a violation of copyright and against the law. Period. No matter where they're from.

I deal with people who take the cartoon images off the web for their personal use everyday. They assume that because they find these images on the web they are for free. Wrong! Because the image is on the web does not mean the artist or his agent has given anyone permission to use it.

This would apply to anime as well. The medium makes no difference. To be technical, the avatars we all use for our personal identification in these forums are copyright protected and we're all stealing them...unless you're the artist who created yours.

Also, in copyright law the burden of proof is on the downloader (user of the image) to prove they did NOT steal the image. As computer records are very accurate it's almost impossible for an artist to sue someone and not win.

[drgenestarwind]

Q: If a title isn't liscensed in america, is an exhibition allowed? all it'd be doing is violating japanese copyright, right? would it be encouraged so that more people see it so it would be closer to getting liscensed. the reason I'm asking is because an anime club wants to show ouran high school. and it has previoulsy held a 'no bootlegs' policy. this is just something i'm wondering about.

[Soluzar]

Q: If a title isn't liscensed in america, is an exhibition allowed? all it'd be doing is violating japanese copyright, right? would it be encouraged so that more people see it so it would be closer to getting liscensed. the reason I'm asking is because an anime club wants to show ouran high school. and it has previoulsy held a 'no bootlegs' policy. this is just something i'm wondering about.
No such thing as Japanese copyright. Thanks to the Berne Convention, it is worldwide. You wouldn't be infringing anyone's rights to US Distribution, but it's still a copyright violation as far as I know.

The fansub way of looking at things has no legal reality. It's overlooked by pretty much all the companies, but that's only because they choose to, for now.

[Kaosgirl]

incorrect, most chans say they are illegal(#Lunar), but don't care because law doesn't dictate my life..- mexicans are illegal too, but people still eat tacos.


Nit: not all Mexicans are illegal. For example, mexicans living in Mexico are perfectly legal :p

As for fansubs, yeah definately illegal. But not (IMO anyway) inherently unethical, and in the end I'm more concerned with the ethics than with the written law.

(That said, if it is possible to get ahold of a legitimate copy, you should do so regardless; even if you still rely on the fansub for language issues.)

[mephisto2k]

I got a new question about fansubbing that has been buggingme for some time.

When a new Japanese anime movie airs in theaters/cinema fansubbers ALWAYS wait for the DVD to be realsed to fansub it, which will take several month. If we take a (questionable) look at the US or international movie piracy community, we see all movies will be available for download (raw) wheather they are cam-records or some high quality leaks from whereever.
So why dont anime fansubbers take anime movie raws and fansub them and instead always wait for the DVD?
Its the same thing in legal and ethnic terms (dont wanna get into a discussion about the ethnics of fansubs in general here).
Are there indeed no raws of anime movies, or are fansubbers not willing to put effort in subbing low quality raws?

[AchtungAffen]

The first RAWs to generally appear are TV recordings. Be it HDTV or regular.

[RamenBoy]

This is the first time Im downloading a anime series and I am using BitComet. Im downloading a series that is 7gb in total (28 episodes). However, it seems to be downloading at a rather slow pace. Its only at 15% after atleast 12 hours, maybe a little less. Is this normal? Should I change the program im using?

[Samurai Drifter]

Yep. That's normal.

I suggest using BitTornado though.

[Hara!]

Quick people, Suggest me a series.

[Suiko Eiji]

Yep. That's normal.

I suggest using BitTornado though.

Yep, I remember my Akazukin Chacha TV torrent (~9GB) taking a week on BitTornado. A lot depends on seeds and leechers but you're still moving 7,000,000,000 bits of data across a wire.

[Jon]

This is the first time Im downloading a anime series and I am using BitComet. Im downloading a series that is 7gb in total (28 episodes). However, it seems to be downloading at a rather slow pace. Its only at 15% after atleast 12 hours, maybe a little less. Is this normal? Should I change the program im using?
I think it's time to learn how to use IRC.

[AchtungAffen]

Why people who download anime heavily still prefer torrent against ed2k?

[LidLESS~2K7]

Does anyone know where i can find a site (or torrent...doesn't matter) for the subs for full metal panic second raid eps 1-13. Thnx!

P.S.- torrents are better!

[GreatNekoKoneko]

Does anyone know where i can find a site (or torrent...doesn't matter) for the subs for full metal panic second raid eps 1-13. Thnx!

P.S.- torrents are better!

...torrents are NOT better. better get it off irc or some channel.

[LidLESS~2K7]

...torrents are NOT better. better get it off irc or some channel.

I have only ever used torrents and they've worked pretty well for me so far. As the alternative, what do u suggest?... i'm not to enlightened on other options.