Everything you ever wanted to know about fansubs, but were afraid to ask

[GreatNekoKoneko]

I have only ever used torrents and they've worked pretty well for me so far. As the alternative, what do u suggest?... i'm not to enlightened on other options.

...discover the wonders of mIRC. and you'll be a better person for that. it's a whole new world when you use mIRC. its like, being reborn into a utopian society. or maybe that's just me. but its better than torrents.

[LidLESS~2K7]

LoL! Right on thnx for the advice, ill let u know how it turns out :)

[beecortes]

Quick people, Suggest me a series.
hi! There's a really good anime just coming out called 'Tokyo Majin Gakuen Kenpucho' It only has 3 episodes so far but it's amazing! You can find it on any peer-to-peer(bittorrent,animesuki,ect.) or I have it on my site. http://berry-kiss.org/
I'm not trying to advertise, just couldn't pass up the sharing the info!


NOW! To get serious! I am realy passionate when it comes to the 'fansub' topic. I have been watching fansubs for many years and if anything, it only gets me more excited about anime! Just a quick thought:
When an anime is released in the states, it's changed. It's just a fact. It doesn't mean I don't buy them!(I can't help myself!) Fansubs include not only the original concept but also little bits of info to help better understand what's going on(for those who watch alot of fansubs, you know what I mean) I don't want americanized anime! The industry has gotten better but fansubs only help you understand the series more when released!

Sorry for the rant!! For more info, go to my blog topic 'The Real Deal on Fansubs' http://berry-kiss.org/blog/other_berrykiss_newsarticles/ (just scroll down for the article:) )

[monkeyman101]

can you tell me what is happenin at the very beginnin of naruto sh.... i mean wen they meet sasuke and sasuke tries to kill naruto with the katana.... is that a flash bak or is that goin to happen.... wat happens after that. did sasuke kill the demon fox when he squezed him...

y is it called naruto hurricane chronicles.... can some on also tell me where to get samurai champloo episodes.... could you email this to me at atomic.bomb1941@gmail.com thanx loads

[GreatNekoKoneko]

can you tell me what is happenin at the very beginnin of naruto sh.... i mean wen they meet sasuke and sasuke tries to kill naruto with the katana.... is that a flash bak or is that goin to happen.... wat happens after that. did sasuke kill the demon fox when he squezed him...

y is it called naruto hurricane chronicles.... can some on also tell me where to get samurai champloo episodes.... could you email this to me at atomic.bomb1941@gmail.com thanx loads

... you can get more help from the Naruto subforum council members. i believe they live, eat and breathe Naruto. good luck.

[Soluzar]

Why people who download anime heavily still prefer torrent against ed2k?
Because that's where fansub groups distribute. and the ed2k protocol seems to carry more stuff that's in European languages than in English. It's also a pain in the butt to find stuff on. Plus it was always waaaaaay slower than torrents for me.

[Levon]

ed2k is old crap, torrent is the biggest improvment I'v seen in years. It deserves a lot of praise.

[beecortes]

I was just thinking about how some people are saying that ALL fansubs are illegal no matter what. This seems pretty stupid to me. They say that it belongs to the people who create it even if it's not licenced right? Well why the hell do they sell dvd recorders and Tivo's then. I mean you can record your favorite show and watch when ever you want, right? If I know I'll miss the newest episode of Lost, I can record it so i don't miss it. I can even set it so it records every episode that comes out! Fansubbing is like the same thing, only it's not in our country! So if i set my recorder for the next episode of NANA and watch it when i want to (if i lived in Japan that is) that would be just fine. But if someone translates it and then I watch it, that's illegal? I mean, what is it that is illegal? I just want to know? It would be different if you could buy fansubs or rent them or something, but all we're doing is watching them. It even says clearly on each episode that they are 'Not for sale, rent, or ebay. Please stop distribution when licenced'. So where is the illegal part? I can understand people wanting to crack down on the downloading of fansubs such as Hellsing and Samurai Champloo because they've been licenced and you can buy them! But if they're telling me that I can't watch the hundreds of series that probably will never make it to the States at all, that's bull$hit!! Some of my fav animes of all times have never been licenced! AND if you really say that all the American anime distributers don't watch fansubs, come on!
So if you can really tell me what the problem is, without pointing out the 'profit of the US anime distributers' side, I'd love to know!
*This is not an attack on anyone. I just want to know what the deal is:) I know that if anywhere, I can post it here. Cause all the other US anime stores have just downed the topic, rather then post a thread!:)

[Levon]

They sell DVD recorders and Tivo for people to record shows on TV for your own personal viewing with commercials. And from what I heard on the news was that most(or a great amount) of people actually watch the commercials on there Tivo recordings. Not to distribute to thousands of people commercial free.

No matter what you say its an illegal copy. Even when you record something on TV its copyright material which is illegal to copy.

So what. Doesn't bother me. Its just the facts.

[beecortes]

So is it the 'skipping of commercials' what makes it illegal?
And the whole distribution to thousands of people thing, i don't know. You're telling me that everyone in Japan can record it for personal viewing, but if it has subtitles and it's available on the net, THAT's illegal? There's no profit made from fansubs. I'm just getting them for 'personal viewing'. As far as I know, all people that watch them are getting them for 'person viewing'. I'm sure that there were subtitled versions of the Sopranos in other countries. I just feel that just because a show is in another country, it shouldn't stop us from being 'aloud' to watch it. If anything, it only adds more hype to anime in general.

[Suiko Eiji]

This should be fun...

I was just thinking about how some people are saying that ALL fansubs are illegal no matter what.

Yeah, pretty much.

This seems pretty stupid to me.

Fair enough.

They say that it belongs to the people who create it even if it's not licenced right?

Because it's licensed in Japan to someone to start with. Just because it's not been licensed for international distribution (which is what we typically refer to as 'licensed') doesn't make it Public Domain or Open Sourced.

Let's examine how most anime are produced in Japan - from manga to broadcast or release:
An individual has an idea, takes the time to develop and pitch his idea in exchange for money. The mangaka makes his pitch to a publishing company, who says 'yea or nay'. In exchange, the mangaka retains a fair amount of creative control during publishing, but the publishing company dictates which of their magazines and what run the story will have (Weekly, monthly, etc.) and probably most importantly, once the deal is sealed, the mangaka cannot go to a competing magazine: they retain the publishing rights. Said manga gets really popular and the publisher, mangaka, and some animation people get together and talk about releasing an anime of said manga. The publisher and the mangaka sign away some rights to an animation company and then the animation company goes looking for sponsors, primarily a network for broadcast. The animation company gets money for production and sales to the network, and the network sells ad time to advertisers. The money then trickles back down to the previous steps of the food chain through royalties. The anime is broadcast, and if everything goes according to plan, becomes popular, more money from advertisers, more money trickles back into the system, the publisher releases tankouban versions of the manga and sells more based on more popularity and money trickles its way through the system again.

Typically, all of this is done before international distributors are even courted.

Well why the hell do they sell dvd recorders and Tivo's then. I mean you can record your favorite show and watch when ever you want, right? If I know I'll miss the newest episode of Lost, I can record it so i don't miss it. I can even set it so it records every episode that comes out!

You are correct. Until the 1980s, this was a problem. I'm not home/awake/sober when my favorite show comes on! Oh, wait, I can buy a device which will record my show and I can watch it at my leisure, this is great! The easiest method, just setting a recorder for the time block, you have an option to watch or skip ads - everyone gets their money, you get your program.

Fansubbing is like the same thing, only it's not in our country!

And here's where things get hairy. It's not the same thing. It's not licensed in your country and most likely not licensed for anything except for television broadcast. Fansubbing also alters the original source material by adding an additional, unauthorized, translated script.

So if i set my recorder for the next episode of NANA and watch it when i want to (if i lived in Japan that is) that would be just fine. But if someone translates it and then I watch it, that's illegal?

If you lived in Japan, why would you need a fansub? Seriously, if you are seriously living and working in society there, you'd either know enough to understand it or know what words you didn't know and could look them up.

If you set your DVR and recorded NANA off of what ever station it airs on for your enjoyment at your convenience, you're within your legal rights (I believe Japan is similar to the US in that regard). If you downloaded someone else's DVR of NANA, you're both breaking the law.

Then we get to the original, and probably the main point of fansubbing - the point is to distribute. You show two friends, they show two friends, and so on, so that theoretically, it builds a base to warrant the costs of licensing and distributing through legal channels.

I mean, what is it that is illegal? I just want to know? It would be different if you could buy fansubs or rent them or something, but all we're doing is watching them. It even says clearly on each episode that they are 'Not for sale, rent, or ebay. Please stop distribution when licenced'. So where is the illegal part?

The illegal part starts with 'intent to distribute' and finishes with 'actual distribution'. By putting tags like 'Not for sale or rent' and 'stop distro-ing when licensed', fansub groups keep themselves from automatically irking the ire of the Industry. With limited legal resources, the Industry cannot go after each and everyone, so they go after the worst offenders.

I can understand people wanting to crack down on the downloading of fansubs such as Hellsing and Samurai Champloo because they've been licenced and you can buy them! But if they're telling me that I can't watch the hundreds of series that probably will never make it to the States at all, that's bull$hit!! Some of my fav animes of all times have never been licenced! AND if you really say that all the American anime distributers don't watch fansubs, come on!

So, if your favorites aren't being released in the US, why not buy DVDs from Japan? Even R3 discs from Korea are being touted as substitutes in some circles for lack of an R1 release. Really want an R1 release, ask the Industry if they're looking at it, ask other fans if they feel the same way. Some titles just aren't market worthy. Not having one of your favorite series licensed is something that nearly every anime fan has experienced and must learn to cope with.

Some US Industry folks have openly admitted to keeping tabs on what's going on in the fansub circles. But even though they keep tabs on it, it doesn't always influence the end result of the business day - those decisions are made, and many times rightfully so, by the business departments of the organization.

So if you can really tell me what the problem is, without pointing out the 'profit of the US anime distributers' side, I'd love to know!
*This is not an attack on anyone. I just want to know what the deal is:) I know that if anywhere, I can post it here. Cause all the other US anime stores have just downed the topic, rather then post a thread!:)

I'll close with this statement: I'm not anti-fansub. I still think that, as many people in fandom look to things of the past such as anime clubs, fanzines, and other activities that tried to help increase the number of people involved in the fandom, fansubs still have a place of bringing exposure to series that are unmarketable, older, or even still getting people to enjoy anime, technological advances which have nearly killed my other two examples, have exploded fansubs. But, as fansub viewers, let's not kid ourselves or try and shroud our activity with above the law nobility. It is illegal and every company who owns material being fansubbed has absolutely every legal right to come after us. Whether they choose to turn a blind eye, allow us to police ourselves, and hope for future economic returns is all their decision but it does not change the legality of the issue.

[Hara!]

^^^

Tl;dr.

[beecortes]

Suiko Eiji-
This should be fun...(cont.)

Finally! A real explanation! This finally makes sense! Again, I didn't want to pick a fight, I just really wanted to know what the big deal was!!
Thank You!!^^

Suiko Eiji-
If you lived in Japan, why would you need a fansub? Seriously, if you are seriously living and working in society there, you'd either know enough to understand it or know what words you didn't know and could look them up.

Silly! My point was, if I could TiVo it there why could I not watch the fansub here. I wanted to know the difference, really, between the two.

Suiko Eiji-
If you set your DVR and recorded NANA off of what ever station it airs on for your enjoyment at your convenience, you're within your legal rights (I believe Japan is similar to the US in that regard). If you downloaded someone else's DVR of NANA, you're both breaking the law.

Wow! I really never thought of it that way. Distribution, I guess, doesn't really have to mean 'intent to make a profit'. Why that's illegal, I still won't know. I always tell my friends about new stuff and share it when I can. I just never knew I was 'breaking the law' when doing so!!!

[Leader Desslock]

Finally! A real explanation!
Because the previous 18 pages somehow failed to mention this? :unsure: I thought the previous 18 pages kinda beat the point to death, and I say that as one of the people with a club.

I mean, thanks to Suiko Eiji for finally getting the thread back on topic, but I have to ask you bee - did you even read the thread?

Wow! I really never thought of it that way. Distribution, I guess, doesn't really have to mean 'intent to make a profit'. Why that's illegal, I still won't know.
Because you are distributing content for which the creator (and/or current licensor) has not granted you a distribution license. Profit is entirely irrelevant. Unlicensed distribution is the illegal activity.

If it helps, think of the phrase "all rights reserved", which I'm sure you've seen before. Now take it literally - ALL rights to do anything whatsoever. Those rights are the creator's alone until he/she signs some of them away. ONLY those signed rights belong to anyone else, ALL other rights will be reserved to the license holder. So if the creator says "you can only distribute my work on every third Tuesday in exchange for a particular shade of pocket lint", then every other form of distribution (different days, shades of lint, etc.) is an unlicensed distribution and a violation of the copyright holder's license, and therefore protected by law.

I always tell my friends about new stuff and share it when I can. I just never knew I was 'breaking the law' when doing so!!!
Yep, you are. Every time. You're breaking the law when you download it yourself, every time you watch it, and any time you share it with someone.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

Yep, you are. Every time. You're breaking the law when you download it yourself, every time you watch it, and any time you share it with someone.

... and you make an Angel cry everytime you touch yourself. so STOP IT!

[beecortes]

WOW! My bad for posting.:'( Didn't mean to make a scene!-_-;

[Suiko Eiji]

WOW! My bad for posting.:'( Didn't mean to make a scene!-_-;

Don't worry about it and don't mind Desslock too much; for all I know, I was just parroting something printed earlier in the thread in my own words, more or less, or it could have never been broken down like that before in this perticular thread. I've not really read all of the thread either. Just take it as advice for the future.

[Darren]

Even though fansubbers are not earning money distributing anime, they're somehow taking away some profit from the producers. They're like Robin Hood. They're stealing from the rich (producers) and giving it to the poor (that's us :P). Although he's not keeping what he stole for himself, stealing is stealing and stealing is illegal. :D

[beecortes]

Don't worry about it and don't mind Desslock too much; for all I know, I was just parroting something printed earlier in the thread in my own words, more or less, or it could have never been broken down like that before in this perticular thread. I've not really read all of the thread either. Just take it as advice for the future.

Thank you! I feel better^_^

[ZeroRyoko1974]

Fansub groups don't make sense to me at times. A new season starts up and groups will show up like rats and sub half a show and disapear. There are like 5 different groups subbing lucky star and darker then black, and several other shows have 3-4 groups, yet there has not been a new episode subbed of shows like Nodame, or Manabi for weeks

[Hara!]

Again, why isn´t anyone subbing Souten no Ken?

[lav2k4]

There are like 5 different groups subbing lucky star and darker then black, and several other shows have 3-4 groups, yet there has not been a new episode subbed of shows like Nodame, or Manabi for weeks

Things like that piss me off. Though the only group I ever seen been able to multi task is Shinsen-Subs. Most of these other groups release one episode of a series maybe once a month maybe once every three months, and it will take forever to get the series out. Live eviL will probably get done Captain Harlock and Galaxy Express 999 in 10 years at this rate.

[ZeroRyoko1974]

now if someone licensed manabi and/or Nodame, I imagine the pace would suddenly quicken.

[J Dude]

Fansub groups don't make sense to me at times. A new season starts up and groups will show up like rats and sub half a show and disapear. There are like 5 different groups subbing lucky star and darker then black, and several other shows have 3-4 groups, yet there has not been a new episode subbed of shows like Nodame, or Manabi for weeks

Reminds me of when REC first started airing and almost ten different groups were subbing it. That was ridiculous, especially for such an average show.

[Tidusauron12]

Things like that piss me off. Though the only group I ever seen been able to multi task is Shinsen-Subs. Most of these other groups release one episode of a series maybe once a month maybe once every three months, and it will take forever to get the series out. Live eviL will probably get done Captain Harlock and Galaxy Express 999 in 10 years at this rate.


Speaking of... is Claymore being aired once every two weeks in Japan? Because the episodes are being released in two or three week intervals.

[SlackerDude]

Ok, I have a question: Do fansub organizations recive fundings from anywhere? Because I understood from a fansub site that they (the site) have employees and that some of them were even fired. But if the subs are free, then how do they make the profits to keep their services (bless their hearts^_^) running?

[lav2k4]

Fansubs groups are non profitable groups in general. It's pretty much a bunch of people volunteering to bring a series that they are a fan of or interested in and making it available to the public. There could be some groups paying for professional translators or even other jobs to get things done quicker.

So in simple they don't make profit from anything.

[VSh]

You're breaking the law when you download it yourself, every time you watch it, and any time you share it with someone.

More precisely, you aren't breaking the law when you download it and when you watch it, you're breaking the law when you share it with someone, if copyright holder can proof it, of course.

[Suiko Eiji]

More precisely, you aren't breaking the law when you download it and when you watch it, you're breaking the law when you share it with someone, if copyright holder can proof it, of course.

Depending on local laws (I'll use the US since I am most familiar with them), willingly accepting stolen goods is a crime. So yes, you are breaking the law when you download them, too. When a download is concerned, it's a little harder to prove you didn't know it was stolen.

Ok, I have a question: Do fansub organizations recive fundings from anywhere? Because I understood from a fansub site that they (the site) have employees and that some of them were even fired. But if the subs are free, then how do they make the profits to keep their services (bless their hearts) running?

Most, like 99.999% of fansub groups won't work for "profit". When you're in a fansubbing group, it is like another job and there is a management hierarchy like any other job* - which you are insinuating as "profit", you mean paying salaries. Many groups will accept donations to help pay for certain services, now a days, the most common is server traffic and bandwidth related. In the old days, many would accept donations to pay for VCRs or cables that would wear out.

*Well, I kinda did...

[Vaikyuko]

I've got a quick question about fansubs. How long is the turnaround, on average (for an decent group only working on one or two shows at a time), from TV airing in Japan + net distribution to fansub distro here? I see some wild changes a lot of the time (Lemon Angel Project, for example, had seven eps subbed that released sporadically, while something like Death Note is pretty prompt online, about once a week).

[Suiko Eiji]

I've got a quick question about fansubs. How long is the turnaround, on average (for an decent group only working on one or two shows at a time), from TV airing in Japan + net distribution to fansub distro here? I see some wild changes a lot of the time (Lemon Angel Project, for example, had seven eps subbed that released sporadically, while something like Death Note is pretty prompt online, about once a week).

Take my answer with a grain of salt, especially if someone can rebuke me with actual statistical facts.

I would say that a decently staffed, well dedicated group can probably have an fairly accurate, little fluff fansub released in probably three or four days after airing in Japan, but it depends on a lot of factors.

In your example, you said one group working on one or two titles - but how big is it? Is the encoder also doing the timing? Is the translator editing their own work, or are they all separate? What distance is involved? Do they all live together, in the same area, or are they spread out all over the US or the world? Does the series have enough of a following in Japan to have someone upload the episodes on the Net?

Ideally, and this purely my opinion, each role should be filled by at least one individual. Living in the US's eastern time zone, there's a -13 hour difference from Japan; meaning a show airing at 8PM Wednesday there is equivalent to 7AM Wednesday here. Given a couple hours for that episode to be uploaded to the Net, I could start my download of the raw by lunchtime and hit peak traffic if I'm on something like BitTorrent. Give it a few more hours to have the translator work his magic (though, this can be a bit tricky), pass the script to the editor to make checks and corrections and a few more hours to add the subtitle track in. Re-encode, put some of the fluffy stuff fansubbers like, and release it. Now, even though I'm saying "a few hours" we have to remember, most fansubbers are young and either work full time jobs and/or go to school, and even some more are distracted by the real world (I happened to be all three ^.^ ) and some steps have to be completed before others can even begin.

All in all, a fansubbing group is an excellent example of project management.

[Vaikyuko]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info.

[master terrence]

I've got a quick question about fansubs. How long is the turnaround, on average (for an decent group only working on one or two shows at a time), from TV airing in Japan + net distribution to fansub distro here? I see some wild changes a lot of the time (Lemon Angel Project, for example, had seven eps subbed that released sporadically, while something like Death Note is pretty prompt online, about once a week).



My bleach comes out like 5-10 hours after the raw is available. I don't know how long it takes for the raw to become available.

[Victory]

My bleach comes out like 5-10 hours after the raw is available. I don't know how long it takes for the raw to become available.
I don't know about bleach specifically, but... one hour, srsly.

[Leader Desslock]

More precisely, you aren't breaking the law when you download it and when you watch it, you're breaking the law when you share it with someone, if copyright holder can proof it, of course.
Wow. I missed a chance to rebut immediately misinformation regarding the legality of downloading fansubs. You're slipping, Dess...

Very precisely and meaning every word I say in the way I say it, with no clarification required:

1) You are breaking the law when you download a fansub. How? You are a party to the illegal distrubution of content. At your direction, the content for which you have no distribution license is being copied onto your local machine. That is an unlicensed copy, and the computer didn't just go out, find and download the file without some direction on the client user level.

2) Unless you unwittingly stumble into somebody else's showing of a fansub in a public place, you are breaking the law when you watch a fansub. One of the things you purchase when you buy a DVD is the right to "use" the material on that DVD - i.e.: to watch it. Unless you have paid for that right (the end user license) you do not possess that right ("fair use"). That right, as you may have read on the warning, is reserved by the licensor. Same goes for a broadcast. Knowingly viewing that content is therefore actionable, though I doubt anyone's ever gone to court for that alone. It's far easier to prove all the other aspects of the law you broke in order TO watch the content, so adding the "viewing" aspect of the material would just dilute the strength of the case.

3) You are breaking the law when you share a fansub with anyone, and no caveat is required on that statement whatsoever. The law is the law, and breaking it is breaking it. Even if nobody ever finds out that you broke the law, the law was still broken. It's illegal distribution of unlicensed content (i.e.: bootlegging) whether anyone finds out or not.

As I've said at least a hundred times in this thread, I really don't care if someone breaks the law, but they should at least be familiar with the laws they're choosing to break.

All in all, a fansubbing group is an excellent example of project management.
Actually, I have to agree here. Anyone who can manage a fansubbing project and come in anywhere near the deadline has probably mastered the most important skills required to manage an outsourced software development project. And Software PMs get paid a heck of a lot more than most fansubbers, I'd guess.

Then again, after dealing with hardware/software glitches, ungrateful customers, disappearing translators and the like, most fansubbers would probably tell you they want nothing to do with project management. ^_^

[VSh]

US copyright low so absurd that even Desslock can misinterpret it. More precisely, it contradicts to itself in many parts, so if you have enough money you can interpret as you wish. Good, there are other countries of sense.

[Suiko Eiji]

^Uh, how is Desslock mis-interpreting the law as it stands?

[master terrence]

I know AMV's are illegal, but have youtube and other sites started cracking down on them yet?
is their illegality the reason the sticky is gone?

[VSh]

Thursday, 17 May 2007:

Poland: Nine people held by police for translating movies (http://polishlinux.org/gnu/poland-9-people-arrested-for-translating-movies/)
Nine people involved in a community portal Napisy.org have been held for questioning by Polish police forces. The possible accusation is publishing illegal translations of foreign movies.

Napisy.org was the most popular Polish portal where users (and there are over 600 thousands active users) were free to submit translated subtitles for popular movies (mostly from English to Polish, but not only). Popular video players could be then used to display the subtitles when playing a movie (usually a DVD-rip).

[iHaruhi-ism]

It's illegal to make AMV's!? Thats something new I learned today, and I went to school!

Quick sidenote question, Would it be illegal to show a opening of an anime, with credits to the original creator and the producers? O.o?

[Yukito Kunisaki]

It's illegal to make AMV's!? Thats something new I learned today, and I went to school!

Quick sidenote question, Would it be illegal to show a opening of an anime, with credits to the original creator and the producers? O.o?

Illegal or not, I think the actual creators of these series don't tend to mind about AMVs too too much. From what I have heard/seen, they like to see the creativity the fans can put into the series all into a video. Also, AMV's, whether they want to admit it or not, bring out a lot of publicity to a series granted the video is shown at a few cons and is very good.

If that is the case, it gets people interested in seeing the series, and more bucks go into the creator's pocket. If any true creators have any grudges against it, I really cannot see why. :S

[lav2k4]

I don't know about AMV's but as long as you are not making profits on them it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

[J Dude]

It's illegal to make AMV's!? Thats something new I learned today, and I went to school!

I don't really know about the legalality of anime music videos, but I do remember it was a while back that a bunch of anime music videos were removed from animemusicvideos.org because some company had came to them and had them remove the videos with songs from a particular singer/band. I think one of them was Evanescence.

[iHaruhi-ism]

I don't really know about the legalality of anime music videos, but I do remember it was a while back that a bunch of anime music videos were removed from animemusicvideos.org because some company had came to them and had them remove the videos with songs from a particular singer/band. I think one of them was Evanescence.


Ohh I see, thats pretty messed up. =\ Well whatever, I say AMVs are made of win! XD

[Leader Desslock]

It's illegal to make AMV's!?
Unless you have permission from the copyright holder(s), yes. You've probably heard phrases like "any use of this material without authorization, in whole or in part, is strictly prohibited". An AMV would be "in part" use.

Quick sidenote question, Would it be illegal to show a opening of an anime, with credits to the original creator and the producers? O.o?
Most probably, yes - it kinda depends on the setting. Let's say you own a DVD. What that means is that you own a license to use the content of that DVD for home and personal use. That means you can sit down and watch the DVD yourself. Under "fair use", you can loan the original DVD to a friend to be watched (as long as you haven't copied it) and you can sit down with a friend or two to watch the DVD. You can't set up a showing of the DVD for the public, however - you don't have that kind of a license.

So when you say "show an opening of an anime", where do you intend to show it, and to whom? That's what'll determine whether such a showing is covered under fair use.

[akutenshi00]

Ohh I see, thats pretty messed up. =\ Well whatever, I say AMVs are made of win! XD

OT: Unfortunately, a lot of them are very poorly made. Mostly people who have TERRIBLE integration, and randomly just piece scenes together as they see fit. When integrated, the video doesn't flow with the scenes they choose... then throw in their choice of music is usually the popular song of the month. Bad editing skills also doesn't help... it's so rare to find good fan AMVs. It's funny to compare them to MAD videos (Japanese fan videos), because the difference is very big.

[miyalovesneji]

I have a question about fansubs too:

Is it legal to burn a fansub to a recording DVD? I know it's illegal to buy them, but if you create on for yourself, is that OK?

Another one,
what's the fast helper? I've been using Azures, but I was wondering if there's one faster.

I'd say that as long as its for personal use and your not planning to sell it on ebay XD its no better or worse than downloading it. your just watching it on a different medium *shrugs* right? ^^

[metal_slime1022]

whats not a fansub?

[master terrence]

whats not a fansub?

a licensed anime is not a fansub. Everything Animenation sells, is not fansubbed. If you download it for free it is a fansub, if you buy it from a credible source it's not a fansub.

[miyalovesneji]

me has a question. I downloaded a Nodame Cantabile sub, but its a .mkv file. I've never heard of this type before, and it doesn't play in WMP. How the heck am I supposed to view it? Any ideas?? ^___^;

[Soluzar]

me has a question. I downloaded a Nodame Cantabile sub, but its a .mkv file. I've never heard of this type before, and it doesn't play in WMP. How the heck am I supposed to view it? Any ideas?? ^___^;
Download and install the CCCP (http://cccp-project.net/). Open the MKV file using Media Player Classic. That should be all you need to do. If the file is encoded in h.264 you will need a moderately powerful PC to play it back properly.

[Shin-seiki]

For those of you that are Mac users, I'd like to bring to your attention a new and amazing option for watching anime fansubs in mkv format with styled soft-subs. After years of putting up with the very unsatisfactory VLC, which has never properly displayed soft-subs (and, as far as I can tell, never will, since this is a glaring bug that they have been aware of for three years or more, and have yet to address the problem), we now have Perian (http://perian.org/), a Quicktime plug-in that hugely expands the usefulness of QT for watching anime fansubs.

A picture's like, worth a thousand words, and stuff, so here's some screenshots for purpose of comparison:
VLC:
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/294/screenshot2vl3.jpg

Perian:
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4180/screenshot1tl8.jpg
Note that Perian displays styled subs with actual styling, and that it also enables a 'chapters' function that I have never seen in VLC.

VLC:
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3416/screenshot5re8.jpg
This is what I really hate about VLC: when two lines of subtitles are onscreen at once, it just writes one over the other. For some reason, VLC has never considered this bug worth fixing.

Perian:
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1796/screenshot4uo7.jpg
Here's how that's supposed to look.

[Shin-seiki]

Here's a few more representive screenshots:

VLC:
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/2894/002aje1.jpg
An unreadable mess...

MPlayer:
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4694/003aru5.jpg
Well, at least you can read some of it...

Perian:
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/4371/001ke3.jpg
Ah, that's more like it!

[VSh]

Here's a few more representive screenshots:

MPlayer: http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4694/003aru5.jpg

Well, at least you can read some of it...

Looks like your mkv utilizes embedded fonts with some non-compatible charset. Try to change the subtitle font or use MPlayer build with fontconfig library.

[Raziel_MGS]

what pisses me off the most is not series getting licensed, but not being able to see them in their best quality in the licensed version, there are many series that are HD now, but all we get is ****** DVD quality

[HSaabedra]

what pisses me off the most is not series getting licensed, but not being able to see them in their best quality in the licensed version, there are many series that are HD now, but all we get is ****** DVD quality

How is DVD worse? The reason domestic licensors don't license for HD is because the number of people owning HD players is still too small to justify cost. Bandai Visual is charging $80 dollars to cover the costs of an experiment with Freedom.and Wings of Rean in HD

[deth_sythe]

so, someones probably already asked this but... do people like at DB get paid or is it all volunteer, or for that matter, do any large fansubbers get paid?

[Hara!]

so, someones probably already asked this but... do people like at DB get paid or is it all volunteer, or for that matter, do any large fansubbers get paid?

Nope. Not at all. It´s just to be nice.

[♥pamera_003♥]

ahehe ^^

I think Its nice !!XDDD

but can I download it !!

[Len]

Oh no fansubs! *Runs away*

[GreatNekoKoneko]

Oh no fansubs! *Runs away*

...oh noes! Len! *Runs away*

[Caster13]

whats the difference between avi and mpg, and what file size equals what resolution?

[reddot23]

Soluzar

Thank you so much!

[Auguman]

wikipedia??

[kanako21]

Hah, too bad i'm not a mac user >_>.

[Jeshi]

Fansubs are killing the industry.
if you watch fansubs you aren't actually a fan of the show you're watching fansubs of until you buy the DVDs or Manga, otherwise you're stealing.

[Suiko Eiji]

Fansubs are killing the industry.
if you watch fansubs you aren't actually a fan of the show you're watching fansubs of until you buy the DVDs or Manga, otherwise you're stealing.

Fansubs are a small part of the overall problem. There are a multitude of factors that need to be rectified before things will get better.

[Hara!]

Fansubs are killing the industry.

Yep. Not over-zealous companies who charge $30 for 4 episodes and never learned about BitTorrent.

[YuriFanboy]

Fansubs are killing the industry.
if you watch fansubs you aren't actually a fan of the show you're watching fansubs of until you buy the DVDs or Manga, otherwise you're stealing.

I pretty much agree with that. I'd substitute "watch it in a legal way" instead of "buy the DVDs or Manga".

Yep. Not over-zealous companies who charge $30 for 4 episodes and never learned about BitTorrent.
$30 is the MSRP. You can find DVDs for a heck of a lot cheaper than that quite easily. Plus, there are thinpacks and such. I don't see where the argument that anime is too expensive comes from. Look at Japan's prices. Now those are expensive. I'll also add that it's very difficult to compete with free. Even if DVDs were cheaper, the R1 industry would still be in a crisis because fansubs are so ingrained in the anime community combined with the whole free>price thing.

[Bamby]

OMG, now I have one reeeeeally embarasing (i probaby didnt spell it right) question. Please, dont make fun of me, because I'm pretty much new with animes...
.
.
.
.
What is a fansub? ^_^'

[DavenIII]

free>price thing.

I have a mortgage to pay, and car insurance food etc etc etc...you want to know how much money I can Spare for Anime a year? ZERO dollars, since that is the case am I supposed to just never watch anime besides the stuff on adult swim? thanks but no thanks, I'll watch Fansubs, and then if I ever do come into some extra money maybe I'll buy some DVD's but until I have money to spend on them Free isn't just better then Pay for, Free is the ONLY way I can watch anime.

[Leader Desslock]

What is a fansub? ^_^'
A fansub is an unauthorized translation/distribution of an anime episode/series.

Fans take the raw video feed (from Japanese television or R2 DVD release), then add their own subtitle track for the benefit of other fans who can't speek Japanese. They then post these edited files online for folks to download.

Illegal to make copies of the raw, illegal to add an unauthorized translation, illegal to distribute the content, illegal to download it, and illegal to share with your friends. If you're new to anime, then "illegal" is really all you need to know.

The manga equivalent would be "scanlations", which are scanned copies of the manga which fans have edited to put translated text in the text/thought bubbles. Also illegal.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

Look at Japan's prices. Now those are expensive. .

I thought it sort of evened out becuase the Japanese make more money than us?

[HSaabedra]

I have a mortgage to pay, and car insurance food etc etc etc...you want to know how much money I can Spare for Anime a year? ZERO dollars, since that is the case am I supposed to just never watch anime besides the stuff on adult swim? thanks but no thanks, I'll watch Fansubs, and then if I ever do come into some extra money maybe I'll buy some DVD's but until I have money to spend on them Free isn't just better then Pay for, Free is the ONLY way I can watch anime.

So you justify theft by not being willing to pay for anime and feeling entitled to it, but you're more than willing to pay for a house you can hardly afford?

[YuriFanboy]

I have a mortgage to pay, and car insurance food etc etc etc...you want to know how much money I can Spare for Anime a year? ZERO dollars, since that is the case am I supposed to just never watch anime besides the stuff on adult swim? thanks but no thanks, I'll watch Fansubs, and then if I ever do come into some extra money maybe I'll buy some DVD's but until I have money to spend on them Free isn't just better then Pay for, Free is the ONLY way I can watch anime.

Did you ever hear of the phrase "do without"? There are plenty of things that I can't afford. I don't go steal a car and say "Well, I can't afford it. This is the only way I can get it so it must be okay." Not being able to afford something, especially something that is in no way essential, does not justify theft.

I thought it sort of evened out becuase the Japanese make more money than us?
I may be wrong, but I don't think so. I've never heard of that brought up before. I would think that the price per episode in R2s compared to R1s is so large that that explanation couldn't work. That's pure speculation on my part. If someone who knows about the subject would chime in, that would be great!

[cloud1989]

if someone breaks into you house and steals your belongings and sells them on ebay, is the thief the people who bought the stuff or who took it from your house. When you download something you are taking for free what is being given to you for free, if it is not suppose to be given for free and is unlawfully there, then the Thief would be the person who put it there, They are the ones that took it from legal TV, DVD, or legal download and put it where it is not suppose to go in the first place and are responsible for the fact that thousands will download it, so basically if anyone is a thief it would be the uploaders. Although I guess you could consider downloaders "knowingly aiding a criminal" or something.

[cloud1989]

and Bamby, don't let the illegal thing get to you to much, I wouldn't get addicted to fansubs, but they are a great backup solution if you find a show that you like and is10 years old and not licensed or a show that had its releases canceled(coughgeneoncough).

[YuriFanboy]

if someone breaks into you house and steals your belongings and sells them on ebay, is the thief the people who bought the stuff or who took it from your house. When you download something you are taking for free what is being given to you for free, if it is not suppose to be given for free and is unlawfully there, then the Thief would be the person who put it there, They are the ones that took it from legal TV, DVD, or legal download and put it where it is not suppose to go in the first place and are responsible for the fact that thousands will download it, so basically if anyone is a thief it would be the uploaders. Although I guess you could consider downloaders "knowingly aiding a criminal" or something.

If the person buys or takes the stolen goods knowing that the goods are stolen, then, yes, I consider them as bad as the thief that broke into the house. I realize theft may not be the best analogy to use when talking about piracy, but it fits close enough. I'll also admit that fansubs aren't a necessarily a bad thing if used responsibly. Anyway, I'm done now. I just can never resist throwing my two cents in when someone mentions how fansubs are hurting the industry or the morality side of it.

[Aaluaine]

where i live ...

Pakistan ...

getting a hold of Anime DVDS is quite a ***** , be it R1 , R2 or even the aussie R4's ...

you just CANNOT find them , more like they arent in the market at all ...

and you wanna know what else sucks ?

you CANNOT order them from the internet since customs over here are strict and have placed a ban on incomming DVD videos and magazines since the ignorant douchebags think its porn and us being a muslim country :(

i do own a couple of R1 Boxsets and DVDs though ... i pick up anime whenever i go to the states for a vacation and such. Rest of the DVDs are pirated or fansubs.

guilty yes i know, but there is no other way for now.

[Aaluaine]

and Bamby, don't let the illegal thing get to you to much, I wouldn't get addicted to fansubs, but they are a great backup solution if you find a show that you like and is10 years old and not licensed or a show that had its releases canceled(coughgeneoncough).

you mean stuff like Kimagure or even Urusei Yatsura :P .... yeah i looked hard for UY but the dvds went out of print i believe

[Suiko Eiji]

you mean stuff like Kimagure or even Urusei Yatsura :P .... yeah i looked hard for UY but the dvds went out of print i believe

AnimEigo to the best of my knowledge still has the license to Urusei Yatsura, so all of the DVDs are still in print, at least for single discs. I believe the boxes, save for the OVA, some of the later TV boxes and their movie collection, are "out of print". You should still be able to order them from a US retailer who will ship them outside Region 1 (AnimEigo can't, which is a bummer).

They lost the license to Kimagure Orange Road a couple of years ago but there's probably some over-stock left. I know I was able to order it a few weeks after AnimEigo stopped taking orders for them.

[Grizzbob]

Honestly, I don't think this is a black & white issue. While I agree that if a property is licensed in the US, then we should try to buy the DVD's to support it, but there are a LOT of titles that have NEVER been licensed here, like Macross 7 & several Gundam titles(like Victory Gundam, Gundam Double Zeta, etc.), that without fansubs we'd likely NEVER get to see. In those cases, I don't have a problem with using fansubs to allow us to see those titles, at least until someone finally decides to distribute them commercially here....And just so you know, I've practiced what I preach, I first got to see End of Evangelion as a fansub, but the very MINUTE it became available here commercially, I jumped on it & bought the DVD, & of titles like Macross Frontier, I'm enjoying it now, & as soon as someone decides to license it here, I will buy that, too.....:cool:

[Jon]

Of course its illegal, the fansub itself is illegal in the first place.

[prnoct90]

By the law, it is illegal, period. As far as ethically, I think it is a little more of a grey area. My policy has always been, if it is licensed, I will download/watch the one to two episodes, and if I like it, then I delete these episodes and buy it, and if I don't like it enough to buy it then I still delete it. If it isn't licensed, I download/watch the entire series and If I like, then I buy the region 2 DVDs and keep the downloads, and if I don't like it enough to buy it, then I delete it. I think this is the most ethical way to deal with the issue IMO.

[Nigokio]

^ Maybe I'm not "in the know" but wouldn't buying R2 DVDs completely defeat the purpose of supporting the "failing" R1 industry?

Like say, (what's simple?), if you decided to buy the R2 DVDs of DBZ instead of Funi's DVDs. None of the money would go to Funimation at all right? And then they'll say, "Dammit teh fansubbers are stealing our monies!!!"

Also why should people be compelled to buy expensive, subtitleless, DVDs that might not even work on their DVD player and, for the sheer fact, that the R2 Anime DVDs aren't made for anybody else other than the Japanese consumers just because they "liked" the series they saw and it wasn't available? Don't get me wrong I've bought some R2 DVDs but the reason I bought them wasn't because they weren't licensed. In fact the series that I have bought R2 are more or less available in R1 but I bought them because they were of better quality and that my fandom for the specific DVDs I've bought outweighed the losses that I would gain. However to say that everybody should buy the R2 of every series they liked and was unlicensed is unrealistic. And there are many reason why people outside of Japan shouldn't be buying them in the first place.

What I feel that the R1 industry needs to do is get things over here faster if they want to "compete" with the fansubs. That's not gonna happen though but I know there are some people that say that they don't like how some companies license an ongoing series for example, shut down the fansubs, and then not even complete or somehow mishandle the series in some way just for the sole fact to say that "It's licensed. Buy the DVDs". It doesn't work that way for everybody.

[HSaabedra]

[COLOR="Blue"]^ Maybe I'm not "in the know" but wouldn't buying R2 DVDs completely defeat the purpose of supporting the "failing" R1 industry?

When shops in Akihabara are undercutting the home market by offering the R1 DVDs next to R2 releases, who's really losing money?

Like say, (what's simple?), if you decided to buy the R2 DVDs of DBZ instead of Funi's DVDs. None of the money would go to Funimation at all right? And then they'll say, "Dammit teh fansubbers are stealing our monies!!!"

That wouldn't count as there is no US version of the Dragon Box compilation sets. That's money they never had coming in anyway

Also why should people be compelled to buy expensive, subtitleless, DVDs that might not even work on their DVD player and, for the sheer fact, that the R2 Anime DVDs aren't made for anybody else other than the Japanese consumers just because they "liked" the series they saw and it wasn't available?

Because it shows the producers that there is a demand for their content?

Don't get me wrong I've bought some R2 DVDs but the reason I bought them wasn't because they weren't licensed. In fact the series that I have bought R2 are more or less available in R1 but I bought them because they were of better quality and that my fandom for the specific DVDs I've bought outweighed the losses that I would gain. However to say that everybody should buy the R2 of every series they liked and was unlicensed is unrealistic. And there are many reason why people outside of Japan shouldn't be buying them in the first place.

I really don't see R2 DVDs as a viable alternative either, but as long as the alternative exists it should be at least explored before coming to the false conclusion that fansubs are the only alternative.

What I feel that the R1 industry needs to do is get things over here faster if they want to "compete" with the fansubs. That's not gonna happen though but I know there are some people that say that they don't like how some companies license an ongoing series for example, shut down the fansubs, and then not even complete or somehow mishandle the series in some way just for the sole fact to say that "It's licensed. Buy the DVDs". It doesn't work that way for everybody.

If you really feel that certain companies mishandle series why not take it upon yourself to start a company specializing in licensing content? :rolleyes: You have this massive chip on your shoulder, yet if you want to blame anyone for mishandling anything blame the content creators for selling the license to begin with.

They're the ones that should be blamed for allowing their work to be treated as such in the first place. All the licensee does is adapt the work to suit their business practices.

Are you really so naive as to think the content creators can do no wrong and that all of the blame should be placed on the licensee and not the original grantor?

[Ken-Ohki]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't buying R2 DVDs also illegal? That's the reason they created the regions in the first place is it not? Basically our only legal action we can make is to wait till a series is licensed in the US and buy it sight unseen. Or am I mistaken?

[HSaabedra]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't buying R2 DVDs also illegal? That's the reason they created the regions in the first place is it not? Basically our only legal action we can make is to wait till a series is licensed in the US and buy it sight unseen. Or am I mistaken?

As long as you have the proper playback equipment you can do as you like irrespective of region coding. The purpose of the region codes was to inflate the cost of international licensing and to prevent people from importing cheaper releases.

[Ken-Ohki]

So it doesn't infringe on international copyright laws or import laws?

[HSaabedra]

So it doesn't infringe on international copyright laws or import laws?

No. It never did to begin with.

[scwizard]

I have a .vob file that I ripped from an anime DVD. How do I go about encoding it to a .mkv?

I tried using automkv with the default settings, but the vob file was 1:30 minutes long and 50mb and the resulting mkv was 300MB!

[big e]

What program do you guys use to burn downloaded episodes to DVDs? I’ve been using a program called DVD Flick and have been having varying degrees of problems with it. The problems range from split-second freezing at certain parts (this happened during some of the action scenes on one of the discs) to the episode skipping and then freezing. I don’t know if it’s the program or the DVD drive in my PC, although the DVD drive has acted funny ever since I got it (I had to replace the original).

[Dj_Saito]

Part of the problem with me buying dvds personally is that things get released so late that I have already seen them fansubbed. Every now and then I see a dvd title that i havent seen and get it. But in this day and age the lag between actual release and licensed release is too long. I dont think its something that can be fixed, but with the whole internet thing its kinda hard to ask people to wait for whats already been released for months if not years.

[chibiyume]

I have always had this on my mind but since there are some ppl in japan taking legal actions and we people who like fansubs that were never brought in the united states or bought here what will happen?
I was wondering is there a way to have the united states to start a buisness or something where you can download anime per ep for money? like if adv and all those companies did that wouldn't it be easier?

for example if a new anime came out in japan they could work something out with japan and get that episode and we probably will have to wait 1 week later for it and they could post it online it be nice if adv does this i could make fansubs not worth or something. of course they could do a 5 minute preview of an anime before we buy an ep. and after they bring out all the eps they could do a dvd bundle after the series is over since they have enough money so people can own it.

i hope everybody understands what i just typed i just want to know what is everybody's thoughts ^_^ cause i always like the fansub its like watching what might be good before you buy before it hits the united states.

[Leader Desslock]

I have always had this on my mind but since there are some ppl in japan taking legal actions and we people who like fansubs that were never brought in the united states or bought here what will happen?
If you're not willing to pay the penalty for the law you're breaking, you shouldn't break the law. If you break the law, and it eventually catches up with you and you're forced to pay the penalty, then.... well, you knew in advance it could happen, so you've got nobody but yourself to blame. It was a path you chose, betting the benefits outweighed the risks. If you don't want to run the risk of losing that bet, then you should walk away from the table.

I was wondering is there a way to have the united states to start a buisness or something where you can download anime per ep for money? like if adv and all those companies did that wouldn't it be easier?
If it was 'easier', they'd all be doing it. The reality is that it's a logistical nightmare, both in technical and contractual terms.

Can it be done? You bet. Several anime titles are available on premium rental sites like Netflix, for example.

Will it be the norm any time soon? Probably not. Drop it down to 99 cents per episode, and it might take off. Until then, consumers would just be paying more to get less, and they know it.

Here's the kicker toward your position - would online distribution suddenly make all those unlicensed titles available quickly, and with subtitles, for fans in the US? Not at all. Online distribution would still require licensing, with all the negotiation headaches and expenses associated with that. An unlicensed title would still be just that - an unlicensed title. As in "not licensed for distribution in North America".

for example if a new anime came out in japan they could work something out with japan and get that episode and we probably will have to wait 1 week later for it and they could post it online it be nice if adv does this i could make fansubs not worth or something.
Just stop and read what you're writing. "They" can work "something" out "with Japan".

Sounds lovely as an ideal, but when you realize that no distribution can happen without those vague terms put into concrete, signed contracts, then it becomes clear why "something" hasn't really taken off yet.

ADV (or any licensor) would never agree to distribute a fansub (or any unauthorized, unprofessional translation) simply because they'd never stake their investment on a group of unprofessional folks who have no contractual obligation to fulfill their commitment. Not to mention the quality - I mean, take a look at your own post! You say "i could make fansubs", but your post is barely readable. How readable would your fansubs be?

And of course, this leaves aside all of the other influences on a translation that are all part of running a business. Marketing, for one.

of course they could do a 5 minute preview of an anime before we buy an ep. and after they bring out all the eps they could do a dvd bundle after the series is over since they have enough money so people can own it.
If a five minute preview was sufficient, there wouldn't be fansubbing groups currently working on Bleach, Naruto, or any of the other titles that have gone into the hundreds of episodes.

I think we've long since passed the point where we can pretend that fansubs are primarily used for innocent previewing purposes only. ^_^

i hope everybody understands what i just typed i just want to know what is everybody's thoughts ^_^ cause i always like the fansub its like watching what might be good before you buy before it hits the united states.
Try renting. It's a way to preview what's good that HAS hit the United States, and oh, it's also legal, supports (minimally) the industry, and it provides good feedback on which titles are worth renting and owning.

[chibiyume]

Well I just meant something like those anime distrubers the company that gets our anime adv...ect whoever i didn't meant them getting fansubs. what i meant is that it be nice if they could do something make a anime for download to watch cause netflix well can be a pain specially if they give you scratch up disk and such.

like if adv, genon or whoever runs our anime indrusty they could do something like this get it from japan you know so we can see anime eps every week i'm talking about that to get rid of fansubbers

do i make sense now ?

[Leader Desslock]

...cause netflix well can be a pain specially if they give you scratch up disk and such.
Netflix actually offers titles for viewing online. Air is currently available, among other titles.

like if adv, genon or whoever runs our anime indrusty...
Nobody runs "the industry". It's a bunch of unassociated private companies in competition with one another.

they could do something like this get it from japan you know so we can see anime eps every week i'm talking about that to get rid of fansubbers
But to get rid of fansubbers, they'd have to:

1) Sub episodes as fast as the fansubbers do, which is near impossible to do, when you have issues of marketing, quality control, license restrictions, approval procedures, etc. That takes time, money, and a lot of good planning. Correct me if I'm wrong, but "good planning" isn't exactly a hallmark of the domestic anime industry.

2) Offer shows that the fansubbers are subbing, like the unlicensed shows. Yes, the fansubbing crowd is ALSO doing licensed material, but the fact that they're subbing unlicensed material means there will always be a demand for material that domestic licensors cannot provide.

3) Beat fansubber's price. Right now, "free" is a hard price to beat.

[Hajime Saitou]

chibiyume, you should read this (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-03-21/gonzo-works-to-be-streamed-simultaneously-with-airing) and then this. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=54379)

[CFDK]

I realize people have probably answered this but what player will play mkv files and more importantly display the subtitles correctly? vlc player seems to play mkv files but with subtitles to unusable.

[Hara!]

I realize people have probably answered this but what player will play mkv files and more importantly display the subtitles correctly? vlc player seems to play mkv files but with subtitles to unusable.

Media Player Classic, maybe.

[CFDK]

I'll give it a try thanks for the help!

[DazarGaidin]

You should just get 2 things, the combined community codec pack (http://www.cccp-project.net/) (cccp, which includes media player classic) and then install after it the real alternative codec (http://codecguide.com/download_real.htm). You should be able to play everything with those two.

Also when it seems like you cant enable subtitles in an mkv file, sometimes if you look in your windows system tray and right click the icon for the decoder it will let you enable them there.

The only down side to MPC is you cant playlist.

[Soluzar]

I endorse the above suggestions. While VLC may work with a lot of files, it does have a problem with styled subs. CCCP is acknowledged by a lot of fansubbers as the standard.

[AnimeLover]

hi guys this is my first post here , I like this thread its really helpful , but I could not find what I want really , I need a good torrent site for anime and i mean good one because most of the anime torrent sites does not have that much of new released anime .

[taily]

^ We disapprove of fansubs here at AN, this is not the place to ask. Sorry.

[drgenestarwind]

sort of in responce to the Viz/crunchyroll thing, i guess i'm indifferent because i know that fansubbers are not economically motivated. the language thing dosen't bother me seeing as i watch everything in japanese anyway. don't get me wrong, i hope the american distributor companies flourish and expand; i buy shows that i like but have first discovered through fansubs.

[CanadaAnimeFan1]

LOL....the stories I could tell about the early days of anime fansubbing and the early anime groups. But I cannot. Some of the info in that treatise on early fansubbing and anime groups is just plain wrong but then, you would have had to have been there. Also, many names are missing (perhaps on purpose, no?). And why does a paper on USA fansubbing include the distro network out of Canada? I don't remember him (Chow)....but then, I am not on the West Coast and never have been and I was into anime for more than a decade before him. I kept all my old zines from that period and before (it's in a box I have here called "Anime Fandom History"). Perhaps I should donate it but I think Fred Patten's stuff may have gone to one of the So. Cal universities when he was forced to move some years ago and that collection was much more extensive since Fred is much older than I. I'd scan it in for archival purposes but that's a big job and I'm not much interested in doing that. My letters have mostly been lost or destroyed but that was my own fault when I ran out of room in my house some years back. The same thing happened with my collection of anime mags that I had kept since the early 80s. No more room. At least someone is trying to preserve their own history. Bravo!

[DazarGaidin]

hi guys this is my first post here , I like this thread its really helpful , but I could not find what I want really , I need a good torrent site for anime and i mean good one because most of the anime torrent sites does not have that much of new released anime .

If you would read like 3 posts into this thread you woulda seen the link to animesuki.

[Ironroot]

Hi all
After reading through this thread I thought I would add my two cents to the mix.

I understand what everyone is saying about how fansubs are not legal.
However as long as the major companies don't change then fansubs will never go away.

First of all the time it takes for an anime to get to America is way too long.
For example Slayers Revolution was released last year in Japan but will not come out until late 2009 or early 2010.

If the companies do release subbed version earlier and faster then it will decrease the need for fansubs.

Secondly the cost for anime is extreme. We pay $30 or so for only 4 episodes.

A DVD can hold up to 4 Gigs of data now. That means that for most shows 1 or 2 DVDS will be needed to hold all of the episodes. If we could buy 2 DVDs that hold a whole show then $30 or more would be a good deal.


As these two examples shows the reason fansubs are around is that anime fans have no other way to get the shows they want. The companies don't care about the fans all they care about is making money.

With new technology companies need to adapt and grow. If they don't then over time the fans will leave them and find their shows another way.

Some have started to adapt but they all need to spend up the process or they will never make any head way.

Again that is just my thoughts on the matter and I am sorry it is so long

[Gibb]

Hi all
After reading through this thread I thought I would add my two cents to the mix.

I understand what everyone is saying about how fansubs are not legal.
However as long as the major companies don't change then fansubs will never go away.

First of all the time it takes for an anime to get to America is way too long.
For example Slayers Revolution was released last year in Japan but will not come out until late 2009 or early 2010.

If the companies do release subbed version earlier and faster then it will decrease the need for fansubs.

Secondly the cost for anime is extreme. We pay $30 or so for only 4 episodes.

A DVD can hold up to 4 Gigs of data now. That means that for most shows 1 or 2 DVDS will be needed to hold all of the episodes. If we could buy 2 DVDs that hold a whole show then $30 or more would be a good deal.


As these two examples shows the reason fansubs are around is that anime fans have no other way to get the shows they want. The companies don't care about the fans all they care about is making money.

With new technology companies need to adapt and grow. If they don't then over time the fans will leave them and find their shows another way.

Some have started to adapt but they all need to spend up the process or they will never make any head way.

Again that is just my thoughts on the matter and I am sorry it is so long

You're overlooking a couple of pretty important things.

In Japan, anime is a highly expensive hobby. It's not uncommon to see a single DVD contain 2 episodes (I've even seen a bunch with 1 episode) for rather high prices. $30-$40 is a pretty typical price per 2 episode DVD. When a Japanese publisher licenses out a series to an American group, they charge a pretty substantial amount of money for said license. In order to recoop this initial investment, the American groups try to balance episode amount per disc with a cost that will help them recover the licensing cost.

You should be happy that you can buy an anime DVD with 3 or 4 episodes on it for $20-$30, since the same thing would likely cost you $60 to $80 in Japan (with only the one language and no subs I might add).

[goddessofanime]

Hi all
After reading through this thread I thought I would add my two cents to the mix.

I understand what everyone is saying about how fansubs are not legal.
However as long as the major companies don't change then fansubs will never go away.

RIAA tried to stop downloading completely by suing random people and failed big time. It's not really the companies, it's just the fact that there's always going to be someone out there trying to figure out how to get something for free...

First of all the time it takes for an anime to get to America is way too long.
For example Slayers Revolution was released last year in Japan but will not come out until late 2009 or early 2010.

If the companies do release subbed version earlier and faster then it will decrease the need for fansubs.

They already are in some ways. Nozomi/Right Stuff and Bandai are two companies that I know of that have put out sub only titles for cheap.

Secondly the cost for anime is extreme. We pay $30 or so for only 4 episodes.

Lrn to lrk moar.

There's plenty of places online nowadays that you can get something for a reasonable price. As for Brick and mortar stores, you need to know how to look.




As these two examples shows the reason fansubs are around is that anime fans have no other way to get the shows they want. The companies don't care about the fans all they care about is making money.

With new technology companies need to adapt and grow. If they don't then over time the fans will leave them and find their shows another way.

Some have started to adapt but they all need to spend up the process or they will never make any head way.

Again that is just my thoughts on the matter and I am sorry it is so long

It's ok. :)

Some companies are trying to grow..for example Viz just started putting up Naruto Shippenden on crunchyroll.

[Ironroot]

goddessofanime and Gibbs

You both made some good points.
As for the cost. My point is that Americans have a diffrent view of what something should cost. For a lot of my friends who enjoy anime paying $30 for 4 episodes is insane. Yes it is cheaper then what people pay in Japan but the American industry must look at what consumers here will pay.

Yes I was using the basic price at Brick and mortar stores because that is where a lot of people still shop. I personal have bought most of my anime from Right Stuff or Amazon when it is on sale.


Ture some stores are changing, however it is only a small number so far and there is still a lot that needs to change for the industry here to grow.

Right now Anime is populare but it still makes up such a small part of the Entertainment industry that for it to grow it has to find a way to bring more anime to america and make so that more people can gain access to it easyer.

Again these are my 2 cents but this is the type of discussion that is needed to help an industry that I think everyone on this board wants to see grow.

[goddessofanime]

You have to keep in mind too that in this day and age, people aren't buying as much as before. And with anime, a lot of it is because people are checking out download/stream sites...hell I do it too. So, in turn, the companies begin to suffer and thus certain aspects of entertainment like anime, begin to suffer in sales causing stores to shorten or get rid of what's not selling.


You go on Amazon and Right stuf? And you're complaining about paying 30 a pop? They're cheap. As for brick and mortar stores...Best Buy is good. And most of my Bleach collection pretty much comes from Wal Mart.

Also, some advice...check out places that sell used dvds. Even here (AN).

[Jon]

You have to keep in mind too that in this day and age, people aren't buying as much as before. And with anime, a lot of it is because people are checking out download/stream sites...hell I do it too. So, in turn, the companies begin to suffer and thus certain aspects of entertainment like anime, begin to suffer in sales causing stores to shorten or get rid of what's not selling.
Same here I check out anime on Youtube, but the difference is that I actually buy it. Anime is all over Youtube and simple google searches will find what you want, in about 1 second. It's really a shame since not only has this been hurting the anime industry for years, along with fansubs, but this whole economic recession makes the niche genre even LESS of a money maker.

You go on Amazon and Right stuf? And you're complaining about paying 30 a pop? They're cheap. As for brick and mortar stores...Best Buy is good. And most of my Bleach collection pretty much comes from Wal Mart


Amazon is (from my experience) really expensive when it comes to anime, but great for everything else. Right Stuf is good when they have sales...

Best Buy has great prices, but the company scaling down their anime sections, at most of their stores. :( They're moving a lot of anime inventory to online only because they know the people it caters to are people who buy a lot of online, and dont' really walk int the store to make a purchase. Luckily mine isn't that way, because it's one of the busiest stores in the area.

[goddessofanime]

I'll have to check it out.

Overstock is pretty good as well. And I've gotten majorly cheap stuff on Amazon Marketplace.

[Jon]

Deep Discount is the best, I always order stuff from them. Their regular prices are better than most of their competitor's sale prices :lol: Then whenever they do sale prices (usually around American holidays) they are insane.

Always free shipping and no tax too :)

[Jon]

oooo deep discount's a bad idea. Many rumors bout where they get there stuff.^^
I've been buying from them for years, all my stuff has always been in perfect condition and they always have the lowest prices (plus free shipping on everything).

[Mr. sickVisionz]

I have a question/rant: In the current day (2009), with the industry being in the state that it's in and more companies being willing to simulcast there shows for free or chump change, what is the point of fansubbing?

In the past you would hear, "well they don't sell it here." Well, now they do for the most part. Then it became, "It takes to long to release." DVD release speeds have gotten very fast. Then it became, "fansubs come out faster". The industry responded with simulcast that come out before fansubs.

Yet with all of this, fansubbing is still out there. But now, you go around on forums and trackers and you see stuff like "f*** Funimation, Crunchyroll, etc". WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS? I don't why I care so much, but it irks me to no end to go on a tracker and see people ripping files from sites that give away shows for free. Like, what is the purpose? Now watching a 15 second commercial is too high a price to pay?

It's like there's been a shift to where fansubbers now see anime makers as enemies. Do you guys really feel like, "Arghh, I hate Funi! They're giving me brand new one piece hours after broadcast for free. How dare they".

WTF? I don't get it. Is this what you really want? I thought day and date releases was the goal, not something you guys were fighting against. I just don't get why you would steal something that's being given to you for free. Like the companies bowed to your demands.

[HSaabedra]

I have a question/rant: In the current day (2009), with the industry being in the state that it's in and more companies being willing to simulcast there shows for free or chump change, what is the point of fansubbing?

In the past you would hear, "well they don't sell it here." Well, now they do for the most part. Then it became, "It takes to long to release." DVD release speeds have gotten very fast. Then it became, "fansubs come out faster". The industry responded with simulcast that come out before fansubs.

Yet with all of this, fansubbing is still out there. But now, you go around on forums and trackers and you see stuff like "f*** Funimation, Crunchyroll, etc". WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS? I don't why I care so much, but it irks me to no end to go on a tracker and see people ripping files from sites that give away shows for free. Like, what is the purpose? Now watching a 15 second commercial is too high a price to pay?

It's like there's been a shift to where fansubbers now see anime makers as enemies. Do you guys really feel like, "Arghh, I hate Funi! They're giving me brand new one piece hours after broadcast for free. How dare they".

WTF? I don't get it. Is this what you really want? I thought day and date releases was the goal, not something you guys were fighting against. I just don't get why you would steal something that's being given to you for free. Like the companies bowed to your demands.

Not every show from the given season is streamed quite yet, but the fansubbers that exist today are nothing like the ones that were around in the 80's and 90's. The new era of sub groups that are currently doing the bulk of the new shows are looking for any excuse possible to troll licensor and content portal alike for no reason other than internet fame.

[Meegle]

I honestly I think one day there will be no use for fansubs anymore. But right now I think,as Hsaabedra mentioned, simulcasts and such aren't covering all the releases that Fansubs are.

[Arnold]

Not every show from the given season is streamed quite yet, but the fansubbers that exist today are nothing like the ones that were around in the 80's and 90's. The new era of sub groups that are currently doing the bulk of the new shows are looking for any excuse possible to troll licensor and content portal alike for no reason other than internet fame.

Back in the day, fansubbers did what they did because they wanted to grow the market, not kill it. Whether or not that worked, they at least did it because they cared.

I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I don't fansub, because I do. But it seems like some fans have turned their back on the US industry completely...

[HSaabedra]

Back in the day, fansubbers did what they did because they wanted to grow the market, not kill it. Whether or not that worked, they at least did it because they cared. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I don't fansub, because I do. But it seems like some fans have turned their back on the US industry completely...

I'm well aware of the history of fansubbing, as I participated in a local Dallas area group that actively traded Japanese DBZ tapes and learned the ins and outs of the activity.

What is happening now could be equated to the computer warez scene rather than any form of fansubbing, as most of it takes place outside of the US save for a few groups.

[superplough]

All those legal streams that FUNi and others put up are usually only available in the US. If you live somewhere else (like me) you cant watch them.

When I finally catch up to where One Piece is currently at, I would gladly switch to FUNi's streams instead of watching fansubs, if they were available in NZ. But I dont see that happening. FUNi's One Piece DVD's arent even available here yet. So other than importing R1 DVDs I have no choice to watch fansubs if I want to watch One Piece.

inb4 I dont HAVE to watch one piece and that fansubs are illegal etc

[Mr. sickVisionz]

What's up with fansubbers loving the words f****t and n****r? Especially ones that sub moe like Chihiro and others? I've noticed that these guys drop the words left and right on their sites and even jokingly refer to themselves as them sometimes. I always think that these groups are made up of like 13 year olds but then they tell their ages sometimes and everyone is over 20.

[Hajime Saitou]

Chihiro

If you're even visiting Chihiro's site, let alone watching anything from them, then you're doing it horribly wrong. They're one of the worst fansubbing groups out there and it doesn't surprise me that they would talk like that. But I've never heard of them putting anything like that in any of their subs...

To answer your question, there's this place called 4chan, and those two words are an integral part of numerous memes. Anyone that visits an anime forum frequently will no doubt have seen 4chan mentioned, and if you're talking about people that are involved with anime to the point where they have websites dedicated to their own fansub group, they've probably gone there at least once and picked up some bad habits. :P

As for prevalence, I don't know who the others you mentioned were, but I've never seen those kinds of things on any of the fansub groups' sites that I've visited(and I watch a lot of anime you'd consider moe) other than GG, and those guys were the biggest trolls around so it was to be expected.

[Toddler Naruto]

Sorry for the necropost, but I have a question.

Is it allowed to discuss about illegal downloads of R1 TV/DVD/Web Rips here too, or is it just limited to fansubs?

[superplough]

I'm pretty sure you would get away with just talking about it, but as soo as you start actively doing it/posting links and such you'll get burned

[Toddler Naruto]

I'm pretty sure you would get away with just talking about it, but as soo as you start actively doing it/posting links and such you'll get burned

That'll never happen, I don't support illegal downloading/uploading, and I don't know how to rip/burn/encode anyways.

[superplough]

You're fine then.

[Len]

That'll never happen, I don't support illegal downloading/uploading, and I don't know how to rip/burn/encode anyways.

orly? http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Baby_Naruto

[Black Cat]

one question we're all afraid to ask is whats the best place to you know what fansubbed anime

[DazarGaidin]

Not really, the answer is on the first page of this thread as far as i know. Of course animesuki doesn't list licensed anime.

[drgenestarwind]

Mininova went legit this week, was my main source for finding new (and old) releases. luckily most FS groups have their own websites.
how does this affect your habits and or sources for fansubs? what does it say on the piracy thing as a whole. what site is likely to become the next biggest torrent site?

[Toddler Naruto]

orly? http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Baby_Naruto

Yes, really, and what does linking my anime list have to do with this?

[Clayton]

You can m,ake any fansubs you want as long as you don't sell them, can't you?
I mean isn't that what most AMVs are?

http://dubthis.net/comics/dt20001212.jpg

[goddessofanime]

Uh no. It doesn't work that way exactly..

[Schadenfreude]

But Clayton always knows what he's talking about, so it's ok.

[Leader Desslock]

You can m,ake any fansubs you want as long as you don't sell them, can't you?
No.

Distribution without license is distribution without license. Monetary gain is not required for conviction.

I'd tell you to look up the relevant laws and be enlightened, but since you're an author, you already know this stuff.

I mean isn't that what most AMVs are?
Illegal? Yes, they are. And what would deeply and truly warm the cockles of my heart would be for the winner of this year's AMV contest to be sent to prison for copyright infringement, as they deserve. I would laugh with glee at pictures of them being dragged out of school in handcuffs, I truly would.

You know that part on the copyright warning on most DVD's that says "use of the content, in whole or in part, without explicit written permission, is strictly prohibited"? Yeah, that's kinda the giveaway there. Again, if you're really the writer you claim to be, you already know this stuff.

I don't care if you troll, but could you stop spreading misinformation? Thanks.


Okay, so since we all know that fansubbing and making AMV's is absolutely 100% illegal without expressed written permission from the relevant copyright holders, can we now go on to whatever else this thread was supposedly about? When I started this crusade, the answer to that question might've been in doubt among the ignorant, but by now, we've beat this horse to death. It's illegal, move on.

[Clayton]

And yet it gets done anyway. Gods bless America!

[Schadenfreude]

Not all of them are American...

[old hat]

Yes, really, and what does linking my anime list have to do with this?

Because some of the stuff listed as completed on your MAL is stuff that has not been legitimately released on DVD in region 1. The 3rd Bleach movie hasn't gotten a legit region 1 release yet but you have seen it. The last time I looked Code Geass R2 was not completely released for region 1 but you have seen it all according to that. Code Geass R2, part 4 won't be released until the beginning of next month. So did you download the Bleach movie or buy a bootleg?

[Toddler Naruto]

Because some of the stuff listed as completed on your MAL is stuff that has not been legitimately released on DVD in region 1. The 3rd Bleach movie hasn't gotten a legit region 1 release yet but you have seen it. The last time I looked Code Geass R2 was not completely released for region 1 but you have seen it all according to that. Code Geass R2, part 4 won't be released until the beginning of next month. So did you download the Bleach movie or buy a bootleg?

I saw all of the Code Geass R2 English DUB on Adult Swim as it aired.

As for the third Bleach Movie, I watched it online subbed, but I don't remember where.

[KT Kore]

I watched it subbed

You did what? YOU?

[old hat]

Well, that explains Code Geass but I'm pretty sure the third Bleach movie isn't available in a legit sub yet. It's fansub or bootleg.

[Toddler Naruto]

You did what? YOU?

My impatience got the best of me.

I still plan on watching Viz's dub though, whenever that comes out.

I'm also about to start watching Hanamaru Kindergarten subbed, it looks like a cute show.

Well, that explains Code Geass but I'm pretty sure the third Bleach movie isn't available in a legit sub yet. It's fansub or bootleg.

All I know is that the site said it was legal and ok, but I guess they were lying.

[KT Kore]

My impatience got the best of me.

I still plan on watching Viz's dub though, whenever that comes out.

I'm also about to start watching Hanamaru Kindergarten subbed, it looks like a cute show.

Good job BN. See? Subs aren't all that bad. :P It opens the door to new horizons when you don't limit yourself like that.

[Toddler Naruto]

Good job BN. See? Subs aren't all that bad. :P It opens the door to new horizons when you don't limit yourself like that.

I'm considering changing my policy from "dubs only" to "dubs only if possible, but subs too if I want to check out a show before it gets dubbed and/or it looks like it'll never get an english dub".

[goddessofanime]

My impatience got the best of me.

I still plan on watching Viz's dub though, whenever that comes out.

I'm also about to start watching Hanamaru Kindergarten subbed, it looks like a cute show.

Thought you were a big dub snob?



All I know is that the site said it was legal and ok, but I guess they were lying.

Where did you go? Crunchyroll or somewhere else? Because certain sites like that are legal and have the blessing of the company...like CR, Hulu, ANN...

[goddessofanime]

I'm considering changing my policy from "dubs only" to "dubs only if possible, but subs too if I want to check out a show before it gets dubbed and/or it looks like it'll never get an english dub".

I understand that you're trying to do the ethical thing by supporting the company for dubs, but not a lot is getting licensed anymore.

Though Nozomi and Sentai seem to be licensing a helluva lot.

Also, I think Funimation and Viz are the only ones still sticking with dub/sub on their dvds. Everyone else has pretty much abandoned dubs to stick with subtitles.

[Toddler Naruto]

1.) Thought you were a big dub snob?

2.) Where did you go? Crunchyroll or somewhere else? Because certain sites like that are legal and have the blessing of the company...like CR, Hulu, ANN...

1.) I still am sorta.....

2.) I don't remember the name or the web address of the website, sorry.

I understand that you're trying to do the ethical thing by supporting the company for dubs, but not a lot is getting licensed anymore.

Though Nozomi and Sentai seem to be licensing a helluva lot.

Also, I think Funimation and Viz are the only ones still sticking with dub/sub on their dvds. Everyone else has pretty much abandoned dubs to stick with subtitles.

I will buy sub only DVDs for shows like Reborn!, Gintama, Hayate the Combat Butler, etc if I have to, but I would rather prefer them getting English Dubs and all you know.

[Levon]

Also, I think Funimation and Viz are the only ones still sticking with dub/sub on their dvds. Everyone else has pretty much abandoned dubs to stick with subtitles.


Bandai & Media Blasters still have dubs on most of their releases.

For Media Blasters its usually the Yuri/Yaoi that don't gets dubs and some less known anime like Zetsubou-Sensei. But Media Blasters does dub the shows they think will sell well such as fanservice anime(Kanokon, Queen's Blade, Ikkitousen 2).
They will be re-releasing Bludgeoning Angel Dokuro-chan with a dub this time around, so they do care about dubs. I hope Veronica Taylor will voice Dokuro-chan, its the perfect role for her.

Bandai Ent are the same way, but instead of fanservice being their hot seller its mecha :P

[Schadenfreude]

Zetsubou-Sensei.

Will never get dubbed since so much of it relies on Japanese Wordplay.

[Leader Desslock]

That's what I said about Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, but then someone gave it a try.

[Quarkboy]

That's what I said about Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, but then someone gave it a try.

By completely rewriting the dialog?

I'm sure that would go over just dandy for Zetsubou-sensei

[Soluzar]

By completely rewriting the dialog?

I'm sure that would go over just dandy for Zetsubou-sensei
I wanted to post the same thing, but I wasn't entirely sure of my ground.

[Leader Desslock]

^ I didn't say it'd be a good idea, just that there's always someone willing to try something really stupid to make money.

Cardcaptors, anyone?

[Schadenfreude]

^
Please never speak of that abomination again.

[Toddler Naruto]

Cardcaptors Dub was alright, then again last time I watched it was when I was a little kid, lol.

[DazarGaidin]

Didnt they change it to where shaoran li was the protagonist instead of sakura?

[Levon]

Didnt they change it to where shaoran li was the protagonist instead of sakura?

I made a comparison of Nelvana vs Bang Zoom dub: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcFMuzfBMqE


Nelvana dub I find absolutely dreadful, and I've never even seen the series only some of the movie which almost killed me(I should sue them).
I don't care much for the Bang Zoom dub but at least they gave it a decent effort and made it accurate.

Seems the only people that like the Nelvana version are those that grew up watching it.
Tomoyo's Vally girl voice is hilarious. Like totally :lol:

[Toddler Naruto]

I made a comparison of Nelvana vs Bang Zoom dub: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcFMuzfBMqE


Nelvana dub I find absolutely dreadful, and I've never even seen the series only some of the movie which almost killed me(I should sue them).
I don't care much for the Bang Zoom dub but at least they gave it a decent effort and made it accurate.

Seems the only people that like the Nelvana version are those that grew up watching it.
Tomoyo's Vally girl voice is hilarious. Like totally :lol:

There was a Bang! Zoom Dub? I thought only Animax-Asia and Nelvana dubbed CCS in english.

[Schadenfreude]

I made a comparison of Nelvana vs Bang Zoom dub: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcFMuzfBMqE


Nelvana dub I find absolutely dreadful, and I've never even seen the series only some of the movie which almost killed me(I should sue them).
I don't care much for the Bang Zoom dub but at least they gave it a decent effort and made it accurate.

Seems the only people that like the Nelvana version are those that grew up watching it.
Tomoyo's Vally girl voice is hilarious. Like totally :lol:

I grew up with the nelvana dub and yes, it was absolutely atrocious. Not that bang zoom's was great by dubbing standards but it was, as you said, a little more accurate.

[Levon]

There was a Bang! Zoom Dub? I thought only Animax-Asia and Nelvana dubbed CCS in english.

Bang Zoom only did movie 2.

[Toddler Naruto]

Bang Zoom only did movie 2.

Oh. I thought you were talking about the actual series, my bad.

[FIREworks]

Cardcaptors, anyone?http://i39.tinypic.com/2gtuskg.jpg Yeah. It's a great magical girl anime. The second best after Sailor Moon. I like it.

[Schadenfreude]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2gtuskg.jpg Yeah. It's a great magical girl anime. The second best after Sailor Moon. I like it.

The dubs of both of those got beaten to a bloody pulp by the American Syndication stick. Watching them subbed is actually bearable.

[FIREworks]

^ Very true lol. I like the DiC Sailor Moon dub though (probably because I watched it and loved it as a kid), but I totally understand why anyone else wouldn't like it, or the Cardcaptor Sakura dub.

[Michiyo_Yoshiku]

I only get shows that will never see the light of day here, or did see the light of day here but were then taken away from us. (in this case Sailor Moon which I do own 2/5th of and Hokoto no ken which I also have legit copies of the movie/new HNK of)

That said.... are any of the old unlicensed Tatsuoko shows subbed? I know ADV HAD Gatchaman but I don't know if the licensee survived the restructuring

[Leader Desslock]

I think it's funny how being widespread doesn't make those things any more legal.

[drgenestarwind]

question in regard to fansubs. if, after purchasing a set of dvds for a show, is it problematic to watch the fansubs of same? personal examples: Spice and Wolf and Higurashi (When they Cry)

[The Million Dollar Prons]

It's not illegial to watch them, but it is illegial to download them, even if you already own the anime

[old hat]

Why do so many of the people doing anime fansubbing seem to hate anime and anime fans so much?

[DazarGaidin]

Probably because they get constant whining about release times and errors. They aren't getting paid and probably get few thanks, at least in relation to the effort they expend doing it.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

What exactly is the point of fansubs when most of the content "fansubbed" is:

1) Fansub of a show that's legally available for free
2) A rip of a free stream from a legal site
3) DVD/BD rips of licensed shows

None of this seems like it's really about introducing new anime to people and it seems more like it's just about not supporting the industry. It actually goes past simple non-support when you rip streams from sites and do other acts of sabotage. Modern fansubs seem less about getting anime out to people and more about trying to punish anyone who would dare license anime or dare to provide a free and legal way of viewing anime.

[old hat]

Probably because they get constant whining about release times and errors. They aren't getting paid and probably get few thanks, at least in relation to the effort they expend doing it.

I know of at least one group who say they do it entirely because they hate Crunchyroll (for unspecified reasons) but appear to despise anime and anything to do with anime including JPop. I'm seeing more and more of this. It used to be 'by fans and for fans' for the most part with groups admonishing viewers to buy a commercial release when it becomes available. Now I see more of these spiteful sorts of reasons.

[Leader Desslock]

^ Let me get this straight....

There are people putting in the hours to fansub anime series... because they hate anime and anime fans?

Why would you do that?!? That makes no sense, except maybe ... as a long-term plot to cause the industry's financial collapse. Which still makes no sense, really.

[old hat]

That's what they say.

- No, we won't add karaoke, SO SHUT THE **** UP ALREADY ****ING WEEABOOS (Japanese songs suck anyway).
- We aren't doing this for e-penis but for the sole reason of pissing off Crunchyroll.
- We don't care about you. Seriously, **** you.

Copypasta from their website

[adadqgg]

That's what they say.

- No, we won't add karaoke, SO SHUT THE **** UP ALREADY ****ING WEEABOOS (Japanese songs suck anyway).
- We aren't doing this for e-penis but for the sole reason of pissing off Crunchyroll.
- We don't care about you. Seriously, **** you.

Copypasta from their website

Lol.

They are indeed horrible.

[superplough]

Lol.

They are indeed horrible.

http://i51.tinypic.com/24fefwi.jpg

[Arnold]

I know of at least one group who say they do it entirely because they hate Crunchyroll (for unspecified reasons) but appear to despise anime and anything to do with anime including JPop. I'm seeing more and more of this. It used to be 'by fans and for fans' for the most part with groups admonishing viewers to buy a commercial release when it becomes available. Now I see more of these spiteful sorts of reasons.

I gotta wonder what the final straw will be for Crunchyroll and Funimation and they actually start to sue these people.

[LISA HAYES]

I would buy original but in this country you can barely find some most comercial manga (or anime forget about something less popular and amazon dont deliver here so what i can do

[KateSawyer]

what the? why would people sub anime if they hate fans & such? makes no sense....
but i can understand a little, bcuz if people r always bugging them to hurry up and they get no thx for their hard work, so i guess that would piss them off..
but still. and old hat's quote from the site is just plain rude. what the hell is up w/ these people?

[Levon]

what the? why would people sub anime if they hate fans & such? makes no sense....
but i can understand a little, bcuz if people r always bugging them to hurry up and they get no thx for their hard work, so i guess that would piss them off..
but still. and old hat's quote from the site is just plain rude. what the hell is up w/ these people?

Because its not actually true. Its their persona. To act like the bad guys/villains that rip from official streaming(Crunchyroll, FUNimation, etc.) Hence the horrible in "HorribleSubs".

[KateSawyer]

ah! thx, levon! i get it. but that's a little wierd...

[leeyn]

Ive stickied this thread, if people can expand with useful links on the history legalities etc.......:naughty:

[anispot]

Well, HorribleSubs just rip CrunchyRoll, they don't sub anything themselves..
I can only talk about my experience with knowing different fansub group members and hanging out in their chat rooms..
Most individuals in groups that actually sub anime are anime fans, or they wouldn't be putting in countless hours to put together a sub. I'm sure there may always be outliers however.

[Toddler Naruto]

Why are there not more fansub groups out there, than there are right now?

[Soluzar]

Why are there not more fansub groups out there, than there are right now?
I'd assume because it takes a fair amount of dedication to get started, and because there's a lot of legal streaming so fansubs aren't required as much right now as they once were.

There still seem to be a lot of groups though... if maybe not quite as many as in the fansubbing boom a few years ago when a half dozen groups would each do the first episode of the new popular series.

[Toddler Naruto]

I'd assume because it takes a fair amount of dedication to get started, and because there's alot of legal streaming, so fansubs aren't required as much right now as they once were.

There still seems to be alot of groups though...if maybe not quite as many as in the fansubbing boom a few years ago, when a half a dozen groups would each do the first episode of the new popular series.

Oh, that makes sense I guess.....I only go with fansub groups myself, if there is no way to legally watch the show english subbed.

[anispot]

CR has made them less relevant.

What's keeping them alive is
A) fans of the groups
B) people who dislike CR subs
C) Shows not picked up by CR

I used to hang out in fansub chans all the time, but with CR there's less of a need.
Fansub groups seem to have shrunk in following also but, I haven't idled in a fansub group chan in quite a while... I just am friends with fansubbers. I will definitely say I've seen a number of fansubbers say CR subs are POS and stuff... so I'm sure some individuals are unhappy... but really, for the average anime watcher... I think we should be happy that CR is providing officially subbed shows because A) the subs are already ready and available faster than any fansub group can produce and B) we can support the animation studios/producers.

And I certainly don't mean any disrespect to fansub groups; I greatly appreciate the work they do!

[MechaFan]

It's funny that google pretty much offers you a stream or torrent (still havnt used torrents) of any anime available out there.. Shoot, even Youtube provides a lot of licensed/unlicensed material.. It's pretty crazy to think back about 10 years ago when downloading MP3's on Napster was something new and unique..

My question is, is this hurting the anime industry? I'am not a fan of subs myself so i never got into fan subs, and i actually enjoy shopping online for the best deals on anime so i rarley need to stream.. But i've noticed that the amount of anime (not to mention quality) has sort of gone down hill, especially dubbed animes.. Is this because of fan subbing? I guess i'am not to versed in the subject.. I just miss the late 90's earlie 2000's when i could flip on my TV and find an assortment of dubbed anime just on basic cable..

Btw im not against Fan subbing.. I can completley understand wanting to see a series when its released in Japan and not have to wait years until it gets an american sub..

[Beet28]

I just got a new computer.

I gotta know, what would be a good torrent program to dl to install? (I'm completely out of the loop in those kinds of things.)

[Levon]

Get uTorrent.

[Jon]

Get uTorrent.

This. I've used it for ages and it just keeps getting better and better.

[DazarGaidin]

It's funny that google pretty much offers you a stream or torrent (still havnt used torrents) of any anime available out there.. Shoot, even Youtube provides a lot of licensed/unlicensed material.. It's pretty crazy to think back about 10 years ago when downloading MP3's on Napster was something new and unique..

My question is, is this hurting the anime industry? I'am not a fan of subs myself so i never got into fan subs, and i actually enjoy shopping online for the best deals on anime so i rarley need to stream.. But i've noticed that the amount of anime (not to mention quality) has sort of gone down hill, especially dubbed animes.. Is this because of fan subbing? I guess i'am not to versed in the subject.. I just miss the late 90's earlie 2000's when i could flip on my TV and find an assortment of dubbed anime just on basic cable..

Btw im not against Fan subbing.. I can completley understand wanting to see a series when its released in Japan and not have to wait years until it gets an american sub..

I think it does have an impact on current sales of anime, but thats bound to happen. The anime industry needs to adjust and find ways to monetize this themselves. Some are doing it through advertising in their own legal streams, especially funimation. If i can see a good quality stream that is legal, and its releasing fast, i will pick the legal option. Examples, jellyfish princess and house of five leaves, both streamed on hulu. A small ad before or in the middle isnt much of an inconvenience.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

My question is, is this hurting the anime industry? I'am not a fan of subs myself so i never got into fan subs, and i actually enjoy shopping online for the best deals on anime so i rarley need to stream.. But i've noticed that the amount of anime (not to mention quality) has sort of gone down hill, especially dubbed animes.. Is this because of fan subbing?

I think fansubbing hurts way more than it helps if we're talking about right now, 2011. For every fansub supporter that actually buys content on a regular basis, I think it creates multiple people who grow up in anime thinking that it should never be paid for under any circumstances and that zero support is naturally and logically how the industry should work.

As far as fansubs affecting quality of anime produced and licensed, I don't think there's a connection. Consumers are totally in control. If people stopped buying shows in genre x and started buying shows in genre y, you'd eventually see a huge decline in the production/licensing of shows like x and increase in shows like y. I don't think fansubs are a part of the equation as to why more people want to buy shows like y and less like x, especially when it's very likely that both of them were fansubbed so they're kinda on equal ground as far as that is concerned.

[Siendra]

I doubt most of the people who exclusively dl subs would buy anime if there were no subs. It's the same for films and music.

If the distributors/production houses were going about this properly they would be setting up a dedicated streaming service with a monthly fee, and shifting their profit focus to licensed merch, but hey - that makes too much sense.

[Jon]

If the distributors/production houses were going about this properly they would be setting up a dedicated streaming service with a monthly fee, and shifting their profit focus to licensed merch, but hey - that makes too much sense.
I think some companies get it (Funimation, to be specific). Lately I've been seeing tons of anime on Netflix, which IMO is awesome.

[Cyborg 002]

Utorrent, Crunchyroll, Netflix all this is new to me.

I buy DVDs, I started buying anime in the VHS days still have some of the VHS that don't have a DVD release.

When you download an anime do you keep it on a hard disc forever?
Kinda like owning it but just on a hard disc instead of DVD or Bluray?

Netflix and Crunchyroll that's more like renting than buying is it not? You don't get to keep it do you?

[Ryvius]

Utorrent, Crunchyroll, Netflix all this is new to me.

I buy DVDs, I started buying anime in the VHS days still have some of the VHS that don't have a DVD release.

When you download an anime do you keep it on a hard disc forever?
Kinda like owning it but just on a hard disc instead of DVD or Bluray?

Netflix and Crunchyroll that's more like renting than buying is it not? You don't get to keep it do you?
Yeah, you could say streaming pretty much = renting. So no unless you can download that stuff officially or whatever, you'd have to keep up a subscription to watch stuff through those services.

uTorrent is just a torrent program by the way, lol.

[Levon]

When you download an anime do you keep it on a hard disc forever?
Kinda like owning it but just on a hard disc instead of DVD or Bluray?

It all depends if you want to keep it or not, but you can always burn fansubs to DVD's so you don't have to keep it on a hard drive. DVD's are cheap and hard drives are getting cheaper & cheaper every month(1 TB for around $50!) so storing is not a problem for most.

Although I think most people just delete the fansubs after they watch them. After all if they want to watch the show again they can just re-download it.

[Ryvius]

Although I think most people just delete the fansubs after they watch them. After all if they want to watch the show again they can just re-download it.
Usually.

I like to archive shows I enjoy a good bit though personally, and I get OCD about keeping any and every old OVA even if they suck or not, since those are the harder ones to find off and on. Lately though I often find myself redownloading better releases of older shows, whether it's an upgrade from VHS rips to DVD rips, or just a better group... it's been happening a lot lately, lol. Not that I'm complaining, a good excuse for me to rewatch that stuff.

The timing on it is always funny though. I watch Votoms, few months later GP releases super HQ releases of it. Same deal with Tekkeman Blade. Then Kimagure Orange Road. etc etc etc, lol.

[Cyborg 002]

Yeah, you could say streaming pretty much = renting. So no unless you can download that stuff officially or whatever, you'd have to keep up a subscription to watch stuff through those services.

uTorrent is just a torrent program by the way, lol.

It all depends if you want to keep it or not, but you can always burn fansubs to DVD's so you don't have to keep it on a hard drive. DVD's are cheap and hard drives are getting cheaper & cheaper every month(1 TB for around $50!) so storing is not a problem for most.

Although I think most people just delete the fansubs after they watch them. After all if they want to watch the show again they can just re-download it.

Thank you very much for the info guys.

[Toddler Naruto]

When you download an anime do you keep it on a hard disc forever?

Kinda like owning it but just on a hard disc instead of DVD or Bluray?

I keep my illegal downloads of fansubs and english dubs on my External Hard Drive, but only because my mom's computer does not have a DVD Drive/Burner.

Which means I usually do have to delete anime after I watch it, so I always have some free space left.

(not to mention I feel guilty for downloading anime illegally)

[DazarGaidin]

BTW, disks arent really 'forever' either, they get scatched/damaged and even affected by temperature over time.

I archive my favorite anime on an external. I do this less now though, as i plan to buy anything i really enjoy when it is released (if price is reasonable). I used to save everything but quickly realized that takes too much space and most shows dont really have a rewatch value.

[Schaed]

How much cash do these subbers make, if any? I am sure it has been asked in this thread somewhere, but forgive my laziness!

[Mickeymac92]

How much cash do these subbers make, if any? I am sure it has been asked in this thread somewhere, but forgive my laziness!

Pretty much no money at all. Some do have donations, but I think it's usually just to pay for servers and raws and stuff.

[Toddler Naruto]

Pretty much no money at all. Some do have donations, but I think it's usually just to pay for servers and raws and stuff.

At least that's what they say the donations are used for ;).

(just teasing :P)