Poll: NGE or RahX and why? [Archive]

hamster

June 1st, 2004, 10:57 PM

Which do you think is better and why? After watching the all the episodes for RahX it is undeniable that there are similarities between the 2 animes. Which, do you think, does it better? And which is better overall? State your reasons!

My pick is on NGE. The character development is just so much better. All the characters in NGE are unique and VERY memorable. The RahX characters are rather...confusing at times. At one point i was unsure whether Kamina KNEW that he killed his girlfriend... by killing the Aria. The characters in RahX also seem rather dull, although there are glorious moments of self-sacrifice, breakthroughs, etc. In terms of mecha combat, I think NGE is clearly the winner. The first few episodes had the worst mecha to mecha combat ever. Seeing Kamina butcher the angels without any effort at all really sucks. Talk about combat... The mecha design themselves weren't too appealing, but that is just a matter of personal taste. In terms of plot, I'd say that both NGE and RahX have equally as beautiful storylines, so they are currently on a tie here. In conclusion, I say NGE is my preferred anime (doesn't mean it's better.) What's your view?

Depression

June 1st, 2004, 11:56 PM

I don't really prefer one over the other but enjoy both quite a bit.

I don't know if I'm alone when saying this but I really felt Evangelion's character breakdown period really seemed forced. It was as if falling into depression suddenly became the 'hip' thing to do.

I think John has summed up one of the best comparisons between the two shows. Which can be found Here (http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=549)

EigthSealX1999

June 2nd, 2004, 12:31 AM

I say stop with all the comparing. Everybody seems to love comparing one series to another when each series should be appreciated for it's own merit and not based on how close it is with another. Face it, originality is becoming more and more scarce as time goes by. In a couple years, anything that could be considered "new" and "innovative" will probably become impossible to find. So stop with all the "Is Naruto a copycat of DBZ?" or "Isn't Ai Yori Aoshi just the same as Love Hina?".

I say, just enjoy a series for what it is and not based on the possibility that it's just another Eva clone or DBZ copycat. Soon, every series is just going to be a retread of a past one.

Mako-chan

June 2nd, 2004, 12:46 AM

How are they similar? Comparing them is silly.

Anyhow, I prefer RahXephon, though EVA will always have a special place in my heart. I just like love stories.

RahOtaku

June 2nd, 2004, 05:43 PM

RahOtaku

June 2nd, 2004, 05:55 PM

Now that I've said that Let's talk RahXephon.

RahXephon has many memorable characters. Most memorable are Mishima and Ayato. The Obvious reason is that it's the main story arc.

Other characters like Megumi and Kim also have fleshed out pasts, but their pasts simply aren't analyzed enough. There aren't enough viewers of Rahxephon to strike up enough conversation.

Most people don't know enough about Quon's Past to talk about anything.

So the reason why everyone says RahXephon isn't as fleshed out as Evangelion is because no one has told them yet. Unlike Evangelion where many many people have already written Character Analysis for.

I've finally finished My Case of Rei Ayanami and I'll be starting on Cases for RahXephon Characters as soon as I get the website running.

http://www.rahotaku.com/mishimawind_rah1.gif

^_^

Mako-chan

June 2nd, 2004, 09:55 PM

I disagree. There are reasons to compare Evangelion and RahXephon. They are so much alike but different, that alone is enough to compare them.

So now can someone TALK ABOUT RAHXEPHoN and Evangelion in peace?

No one here is saying that RahXephon is a Ripoff Evangelion at all.

^_^

You can compare Evangelion with any introspective mecha series. They're alike only in the way that the main character is a teen who's introduced to some government agency bent on surpressing the advent of alien forces. Even that is an anime staple.

If anything, RahXephon is much more like Macross, or maybe Xenogears a bit.

hamster

June 2nd, 2004, 09:58 PM

Ok some spoilers on the characters here.

IMO Kamina's into some weird, weird behaviour. For example, I found it lame when he was said something about pilotin the xephon to protect person X.. Y... and Z.. First it was that (can't remember her name) girl who nearly slept with him, then it was mamoru and then afterwards it was haruka? It just seems that he doesn't have the kind of dedication to each character (is that what the anime's trying to connote?) making the scenes less sentimental. Speaking of which, it was unsure whether Kaminda knew that he killed (whatever her name is) indirectly. IMO not enough tears/emotional breakdown. To me, Kamina as a character is rather deadpan and unresponsive. IMO the key features which make a character memorable is how unique it is, and Kamina seems even less human than non-anime characters.

Shocking Alberto

June 2nd, 2004, 10:44 PM

Huh? I thought it was pretty clear to Ayato that he was in fact responsible for what happened to Asahina. And the way Ayato keeps saying he'll protect someone different all the time is more about his desire to protect the people he cares about in general and not just because of one particular individual. To him that is the only thing he cares about when he pilots the RahXephon, and not simply to defeat the Mu.

mjmurd

June 2nd, 2004, 11:44 PM

i don't know if you can really make a case for kamina acting wierder than shinji ("help me, Asuka!" wtf?) IMO RahXephon is exponentially better than NGE. I never really connected with NGE (shinji drove me insane because our personalities are pretty polar) and while there is a lot of pyschological stuff going on the characters still didn't feel fleshed out. Maybe its because i have never been so wrapped in my own ******** to shut out the rest of the world like some of the characters. i guess the main difference, and thus the main appeal of Rah vs. NGE is that Rah was a complex drama between complex individuals, whereas Eva was a complex drama about complex individuals (meaning i thought Rah had more interaction between individuals, where as Eva was far more indepth and introspective on the individual level.) as to the combat, i never really watch any mecha shows for the combat (i am a huge fan of Big O, Blue Gender, and Gasaraki, as well as RahXephon) i really prefer the environments and interactions they create. I know some people take issue with the episode where Kamina fights Hiroko's Aria, but honestly it made more sense to me than most of the **** Shinji pulled. Kamina's motives are made completely obvious, sometimes to the point that i was wondering if the director thought we were all stupid. anyway, i have watched RahXephon about 5 times in the last couple months, and i never even bothered to watch NGE again (however i watched the DCs). i guess thats just my 2 cents

RahOtaku

June 4th, 2004, 06:34 PM

What made Shinji great was his personality. He was the ultimate Anti-hero.

He is everything a Hero isn't.

Kamina is more like a Gundam/Macross Pilot. He fights to protect.

Ultimately he kills what he vows to protect.
I don't think that's strange it just makes us hate him for what he's done.

If you look at my name, you might have guessed that I like RahXephon more.

^_^

thx3876

June 4th, 2004, 06:56 PM

I personally prefer Evangelion.

Both are good, but the anti-climactic ending to RahXephon just brought down the whole series a bit for me. Granted, the ending of the Evangelion TV series was pretty much bunk, but most consider the End of Evangelion movie to be the true ending of the story.

The main difference to me is that RahXephon seems more like a science fiction induced love story while Evangelion was more about the connection between all human life and mostly Japanese society in particular.

Krueger

June 4th, 2004, 09:24 PM

RahXephon. I enjoyed the characters better. Also, the animation, the music, the overall story was just more appealing to me in every possible way I can think of. :P

It's my #1 favorite series, so of course I'm biased.

Krueger

June 4th, 2004, 09:25 PM

The main difference to me is that RahXephon seems more like a science fiction induced love story while Evangelion was more about the connection between all human life and mostly Japanese society in particular.

That's exactly right, I agree. :)

hamster

June 5th, 2004, 03:06 AM

Huh? I thought it was pretty clear to Ayato that he was in fact responsible for what happened to Asahina.
He didn't seem sad, except for a few tears. I thought he would, I dunno, lock himself in a room or something and not really care about his own life anymore. But clearly, he does, as shown in the next episode when he obeys the silvery hair dude. It's almost like Asahina's death was a frickin' statistic to him. For god's sake, Ayato nearly SLEPT with her and just before leaving her he said that he would fight to protect HER. Doesn't that prove that there is a very strong emotional attachment between the two?

And the way Ayato keeps saying he'll protect someone different all the time is more about his desire to protect the people he cares about in general and not just because of one particular individual. To him that is the only thing he cares about when he pilots the RahXephon, and not simply to defeat the Mu.
To me, it appears that Kamina makes more and more half-baked excuses to pilot Rahxephon. First he wants to protect Asahina.. then Haruka... then Terra... then ugh. How could it be that he didn't want to protect anybody else (apart from individual X) in the first place, and then suddenly want to protect Group Y afterwards? It seems kinda phony, but mabye it's just me. ;)

BebopStampede

June 5th, 2004, 09:55 AM

thx3876

June 5th, 2004, 10:37 PM

The title menu for every RahXephon disc was the same music. It also happened to be music that was used by Evangelion years before. If I'm not mistaken it was in the movie when Asuka was tearing those Berserk Evas a new anal cavity.

Are you refering to the R2 DVDs? Because I don't remember that particular piece of music (Bach's II Air orchestrial suite #3 in D major) being on the RahXephon R1 DVDs.

BebopStampede

June 6th, 2004, 09:42 AM

Are you refering to the R2 DVDs? Because I don't remember that particular piece of music (Bach's II Air orchestrial suite #3 in D major) being on the RahXephon R1 DVDs.

I'm not really sure what disc of Evangelion it was on, but I do remember them playing that song that they play every RahXephon title menu.

zep

June 6th, 2004, 05:37 PM

i am fan of evangelion when i saw rahxephon i though that was great series but not more, sometimes i watch again evangelionn but you know with rahxephon its no the same, its cause i think evangelion its bettre thant this... hehehe

thx3876

June 7th, 2004, 12:34 AM

I'm not really sure what disc of Evangelion it was on, but I do remember them playing that song that they play every RahXephon title menu.

The music that is played on the title screens for the RahXephon DVDs was not used in Neon Genesis Evangelion at any point. In fact, the piece that you are refering to was composed specifically for RahXephon years after the completion of Eva. It sounds similar to some of Shiroh Sagisu's work from Neon Genesis Evangelion, but alas... no dice.

Westlo

June 7th, 2004, 08:43 AM

Simply put I prefer RahXephon it's one of my top 5 series ever along with Berserk, Infinite Ryvuis, The 12 Kingdoms & Escaflowne.

Visually it would be unfair to compare the two titles considering the time difference RahXephon is an easy winner, but the equivilent title for RahXephon around Eva's time period would be Escaflowne which had no shortcuts taken in animated the series like Evangelion.

They both had a dud episode in terms of animation, I think RahXephons was 21 and Evangelions was 6 or 7. It was like they outsourced those episodes to another animation studio who was nowhere near as good as the main studios. And of course I'm not taking into account the last two eps of Evangelion.

Musically I think RahXephon has the far superior opening and closing theme combination, Hemisphere is one of my fav jpop songs ever and the team of Maaya Sakamoto and Kanno never lets you down and this is their finest moment imo. The series BGM was mostly forgettable for both series apart from the classical music Evangelion lifted and a few odd pieces from both so I would tie it overall.

As far as characters go I actually enjoyed watching the cast of RahXephon interact which is something I can't say about Evangelion except for a few scenes, the character development for RahXephon spread over a much larger cast than Evangelions but it left itself a little thin. It's no Infinite Ryvuis in that department but then again what is?

Fight scenes Evangelion had much better ones but let's not kid ourselves Evangelion strenght is not in it's action scenes. The reason Ayato and the Xephon had such easy fights is because it is a god in terms of power.

I still don't know why animes like Brainpowerd, Argento Soma & RahXephon got lumped together as clones of Evangelion since they featured staff from the company that created that genre with Mobile Suit Gundam and Space Runaway Ideon. is it because Evangelion was the first taste of this type of anime for most people, still it's a tad naive to assume that it's the first.

Anyway shouldn't you have made this a poll?

RahOtaku

June 7th, 2004, 02:25 PM

This would have been a great poll.

Hemisphere is probably the best song in the RahXephon Collection.

A definite Can't miss.

But Cruel Angel's Thesis isn't that far behind.

^_^

mookiemeister

June 7th, 2004, 03:24 PM

I've seen the whole NGE series and first 4 volumes of RahXephon. I like NGE better. I like the dialog better and the story in NGE seem more coherent than RahXephon.

Westlo

June 7th, 2004, 11:01 PM

Wouldn't it make sense to compare them after completing both?

Though at least your not saying Samurai Champloo is better than Rurouni Kenshin based off a trailer.

Quiddity

June 8th, 2004, 06:43 PM

At first I thought RahXephon blew Eva out of the water. As time went on and I watched it more and more, RahXephon's flaws soon became apparant and it fell a few notches. I'd put both in my top 10, with Eva slightly edging out RahXephon.

Characters: I'd give the edge to RahXephon. Eva goes in to tremendous depth with their characters, that is undeniable. But through this they made practically all their characters extremely hateable. RahXephon on the other hand has a very likable cast with the exception of a few people like Sayoko and Mokoto. And I personally despise both main characters. Shinji for his constant hypocritical whining, and while I was happy that Ayato was not the now cliche anti-hero, he was so oblivious about so many things that it drove me insane (two that easily come to mind are Watari talking about his 'son' in front of him, and Itsuki talking about the man who Haruka loved right in front of him. Both were obviously talking about Ayato and it went right over his head). People bash RahXephon for its huge cast, but I'm one of those out there who enjoyed that.

Plot: Evangelion edges out RahXephon in this. Both shows are ones focused much more on character than on plot, and hence their plots are rather simpler than shows with a more serial like nature, like a Gundam series. RahXephons whole Mu, Tokyo Jupiter, Dolem, etc... stuff was interesting. But Eva's Third Impact, Angels, Seele stuff was even more interesting.

Pacing/Structure: RahXephon is better planned, with less filler and doesn't waste too much time on strategy, like Eva did. Then again, that also severly harms RahXephon from a fighting aspect, the battles in Eva are quite interesting, while those in Rah suck.

Technical Issues: No contest in animation. Rah slaughters Eva with ease. Likewise, I think overall the music in RahXephon was better, especially the opening and closings (I don't care for Cruel Angel's Thesis and I loathe Fly Me to the Moon). But Eva tended to have better songs on a singular basis. More individual songs are faves of mine from Eva than from RahXephon (although the fact that they leave the vast majority of the good songs off the RahXephon OSTs certainly unfairly harms Rah).

Endings: Pitting RahXephon against Eva's TV ending, RahXephon blows it out of the water easily. Likewise, EOE blows Rah's ending out of the water. Taking Eva as the full package, TV series and movie, Eva wins in this category.

I gave Rah the edge in most of the categories, yet say I like Eva more. Why? Well its hard to put in words. How you view an anime series has a large effect on how you'll rate it among your favorites. I started watching Eva approximately 6 months after Gundam Wing introduced me to TV anime. It was one of the first 5 anime TV series I ever saw. I saw RahXephon years later, after seeing tons more anime, a lot of mecha ones. The fact is, the fact that I saw Eva so much earlier in my fandom than I saw RahXephon has a large effect on how I rate them. (I admit it, why don't others that praise Eva as its god's gift do? @_@) Had I seen RahXephon before Eva, back in 2000 instead of 2003, I wouldn't be surprised if I ranked them the other way. I'll never deny the fact that a big reason why I rate Gundam Wing and Escaflowne so high is that they were the first and second respectively, anime TV series I ever saw. Thats just the way things are. Its not really something I can put in a category to compare Eva and Rah at length with.

RahOtaku

June 9th, 2004, 12:34 PM

I'm curious about what you think about the RahXephon Movie.

You never mentioned it.

^_^

Quiddity

June 9th, 2004, 02:00 PM

I'm curious about what you think about the RahXephon Movie.

You never mentioned it.

Talking to me? I have yet to see it, so I can't comment on it :P It's coming out on DVD soon though, so I'll soon get my chance. Who knows, maybe it will enable RahXephon to topple Eva... O_o

RahOtaku

June 9th, 2004, 03:21 PM

I liked the movie. I'm sure you'll like it also.

The ending still is more traditional then Eva's and that's why alot of people like it.

Also Sayoko and Ishiki both are pretty much removed from the film.

So the two characters you didn't like are both gone.

^_^

TougeSil80

June 16th, 2004, 05:11 PM

I would get flamed badly for this. But I think NGE is a much better anime than RahXephon. RahXephon has a empty storyline. It tries to be philosophical like NGE, but it's really not. The characters are not nearly as memorable as NGE's characters. The story is the typical save the world story. At the end Ayato just recreated the world and made everything better.That teaches nothing about how to live or anything. Like when Ayato killed his girlfiriend, that just shows he's a dumbass. I want compare RahX to NGE, but that's an insult to NGE.

hamster

June 16th, 2004, 08:20 PM

RahOtaku

June 17th, 2004, 10:14 AM

NakedEYE666

June 17th, 2004, 10:21 AM

Haven't seen RahXephon, so I can't exactly vote on the poll, but Evangelion definetly has a happy ending, and a great life message.

About Rah's movie, is it majorly important? I heard from a guy who heard from a guy that it was just a rehash of the series, is it that?

TougeSil80

June 18th, 2004, 02:26 AM

I haven't watch the RahX movie, but even if the movie is good, I still don't think RahX as a serie can compare to NGE.

hamster

June 18th, 2004, 06:14 AM

RahXephon does have a happy ending. And not one with Ayato Strangling Mishima. (unlike Eva)

But I don't think Eva teaches much about life either. Besides the fact that Shinji's a jerk before and he's still a jerk after.

I think you're both comparing Evangelion with it's movies to RahXephon alone.

Watch the movie also then RahXephon will have a better standing Evangelion.

Imagine comparing RahXephon TV with Eva TV.

Damn, I wish I can get myself together and finish RahOtaku.com

^_^

Er... it gives a glimpse into the psychology of the characters. A rather large glimpse at it, too. Ya can't really say Shinji's a jerk, at least not in the conventional sense. Also I quite liked the strangling. It's what happens when ppl try to reaffirm their existence in reality. I think the largest thing for me is that Shinji is more alive. He's a very real, genuine character. And interesting too, unlike Ayato. He didn't even do a single outrageous thing in the anime!

RahOtaku

June 18th, 2004, 09:18 AM

hamster

June 19th, 2004, 07:25 AM

Heh, that wasn't what I was trying to say. It's just that anime should feature either realistic or exaggerated characters, so they appear more intense, but Ayato is neither. There are hardly anybody in the world who would be so stagnant, in terms of emotions, and even if Ayato is supposed to be like that, capitalising on boring, un-sentimental characters really drives the attraction away. As for the end of evangelion... Shinji isn't helpless. SPOILER!!!

He can undo what happened. According to Rei or Kaworu (forgot who), all who have the will to live can return. So in that respect, it IS a happy ending not just for him, but for everyone else as well!

NakedEYE666

June 19th, 2004, 08:18 AM

Eva has a happy ending in the same way RahXephon does.

The lovers are separated and the Girl dies of course...

The two lovers are reunited. "Ayato and Mishima" or "Shinji and Asuka".

But what's unhappy is that Shinji still is completely helpless at the end. He can't undo what's happened. Ayato on the otherhand is Godlike and can.

Shinji had his chance at God-like powers, and he refused it because Rei, Kaworu & Yui showed him that real life is better, that he isn't hopeless, that he can be happy. He's not hopeless at all. And the people can come back, that's a major point of the movie aswell.

As for Ayato... I haven't seen much of RahXephon, like I said, but since I'm apparently in a discussion about it I might aswell say that I don't like him much. People always say that Ayato isn't as much of a whimp as Shinji, but what was up with that scream when he saw the tank on fire? That wasn't scary. atleast when Shinji screams he's had some major traumatic experience. And thus far Ayato's actions just don't seem sincere to me. He's like a child.

Oh yeah, that reminds me, this could be a new topic but I won't do that unless I've seen the whole series to judge.

Does anyone else get a very surreal feeling from RahXephon? I'm not saying it's bad thing, I love atmospheric stuff like that, but I get a very surrealistic vibe from RahXephon, like it's not really there and I'm just watching a projection that my mind made or something. I do like it, though it has sort of hindered my developing care for the characters. (Well, not all the characters, just the more surrealistic ones like Ayato & Mishima, and Ayato's mother)

RahOtaku

June 19th, 2004, 12:06 PM

Shinji had his chance at God-like powers, and he refused it because Rei, Kaworu & Yui showed him that real life is better, that he isn't hopeless, that he can be happy. He's not hopeless at all. And the people can come back, that's a major point of the movie aswell.

That's true... Shinji does find new meaning to life. He returns... Then after Asuka caresses his cheek he remembers that his mother is gone forever, and there isn't a single thing he can do.

People can come back... But coming back does what?

"How disgusting"

As for Ayato... I haven't seen much of RahXephon, like I said, but since I'm apparently in a discussion about it I might aswell say that I don't like him much. People always say that Ayato isn't as much of a whimp as Shinji, but what was up with that scream when he saw the tank on fire?

I dislike both Ayato and Shinji... They both are whimps. The people who say Ayato isn't like Shinji are not fans of Eva.

But that scream is from an accumulation of having your friends hurt in a train wreck. Seeing Enemy fighters come in and blow up your hometown.

Remember, that whole city is an artificial Dome created to nurture the ollin. He has had a life without any conflicts, much less seeing Entire city blocks destroyed in seconds.

That wasn't scary. atleast when Shinji screams he's had some major traumatic experience. And thus far Ayato's actions just don't seem sincere to me. He's like a child.

They both are children... pathetic little children.

But does that get in your way of liking Evangelion? It doesn't bother me.

Oh yeah, that reminds me, this could be a new topic but I won't do that unless I've seen the whole series to judge.

Does anyone else get a very surreal feeling from RahXephon? I'm not saying it's bad thing, I love atmospheric stuff like that, but I get a very surrealistic vibe from RahXephon, like it's not really there and I'm just watching a projection that my mind made or something. I do like it, though it has sort of hindered my developing care for the characters. (Well, not all the characters, just the more surrealistic ones like Ayato & Mishima, and Ayato's mother)

RahXephon begins surreal and ends surreal. The opening scene even has melting clocks and crosses. It reminds me of Dali's work.

Maya can fly. A girl named Mishima mysteriously appears and is identical to the girl in his painting. Mulians have blue blood. The world is all a lie. The real Year is 2027.

That's all very surreal.

^_^

Sharp-kun

June 20th, 2004, 06:45 AM

NakedEYE666

June 20th, 2004, 09:51 AM

Levon

June 21st, 2004, 12:45 AM

I like RahXephon more & it might only be cuz I just liked the love story. I thought it was sweet(am i the only one who thinks that?). Made me feel good but still a little depressed. Evangelion just made me feel bad & depressed.

???

shin_gyokakuran

June 21st, 2004, 01:00 AM

I like eva over Rahx. EVA started it. Rahx just followed and made something better>for some i guess, but not for me<>copied was more like it<. If there was no Eva, there will be no Rahx. Plus i like everything gainax, Gainax is good. Gainax owns you, and i think we should be thankful too. Without Eva there wouldn't be Furi Kuri.

Westlo

June 28th, 2004, 10:40 AM

Westlo

June 28th, 2004, 10:45 AM

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Eva suffers from poor pacing, and ends up with too much crammed into the last 4 eps (ie Rei dies and comes back 5 minutes later, a few episodes without her would have been more effective. The same with Kaworu, he wasn't around long enough). Had Anno planned it better, it wouldn't have had those problems.

Rah on the other hand, while good, never engaged me as much as Eva did. I enjoyed it a lot, but the characters just didn't appeal to me as much.

I prefer Eva, though both have their strenghths. Eva has better characters, but Rah tells it's story in a more effective manner.

See thats how you have an intelligent opinion, he's not blinded to one series faults and picks out both. RahXephon did spread itself too think in characters (like I said it's no Ryvuis) and Evangelion's pacing was off.

He doesn't criticize one series because he doesn't fully understand it or for things that could apply to the series he's backing like most of the people here have done.

And really I don't know how you can argue about the characters when your only seen a few eps.

shin_gyokakuran

June 28th, 2004, 09:38 PM

I like eva over Rahx. EVA started it.

Complete Bullshyt.

Evangelion was influenced by animes that some members of RahXephon's staff had worked on. See Space Runaway Ideon, see Mobile Suit Gundam, just because you saw something do something first don't assume it was the first thing to do that.

Evangelion was influenced by Space Runaway Ideon, Mobile Suit Gundam, Gunbuster (thx to Gunbuster we got Eva and FLCL and Gunbusters better than both ;p)

RahXephon was influenced by Ideon, Gundam, Megazone 23

Evangelion fans love to rewrite history when it comes to this stuff, they would claim Evnagelion started the monster of the week thing if it was a good aspect :rolleyes:

I like RahXephon more & it might only be cuz I just liked the love story. I thought it was sweet(am i the only one who thinks that?).

Yes the love story was another reason why I prefered it to Evangelion but you know Levon there could be people on here who can't relate to love stories *shrugs*

*yawn* gunbuster was gainax, Eva IS gainax but rahx is not gainax, only sounds like it. Here's my bull and poop for you.

To edit:
The mech design in rahx just looks like a rip off between a Go Nagai work and an eva. Don't tell me what a gunbuster is boy cause i have seen it before the us release. And eva isn't gunbuster>though they are both super robots<

Guess i'm not into pretty boy pilots. Only females and angel eating robots are okay for me.

shin_gyokakuran

June 28th, 2004, 09:53 PM

See thats how you have an intelligent opinion, he's not blinded to one series faults and picks out both. RahXephon did spread itself too think in characters (like I said it's no Ryvuis) and Evangelion's pacing was off.

He doesn't criticize one series because he doesn't fully understand it or for things that could apply to the series he's backing like most of the people here have done.

And really I don't know how you can argue about the characters when your only seen a few eps.

*yawn* and a trouble in my opinion. I see only one side of a coin? Your telling me i didn't watch rahx. Another bull and poop for you. Saying it like this reminds me a work of Ozamu Tezuka's Kimba the white lion and Disney's Lion King. Do i hafta understand that lion king is an original piece by disney? no in my country we call that "De ja vu robbery."

remember scenes from rahx where when you watch it, it really feels like eva? I do and it does make me sick. Want to watch a space opera love story? Choose Macross. If you can't accept the fact that rahx is a complete rip off, then it's no sense telling what is REALLY good and what is not.

To edit:
I rather be blind and a monkey. Atleast i know my own banana. :lol:
And sorry for not being intelligent enough to uh' PLEASE your views.

Sharp-kun

June 29th, 2004, 03:33 AM

The mech design in rahx just looks like a rip off between a Go Nagai work and an eva.
Actually Rah's mech design is very much like Brave Raideen. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=1990)

If Rah looks like an Eva, then doesn't that mean that the Eva's are rip off's of Raideen?

Just not quite as nice.
Don't tell me what a gunbuster is boy cause i have seen it before the us release.
And? Loads of people have seen Gunbuster.

And eva isn't gunbuster>though they are both super robots<
No, but Eva had a lot of its ideas tested in Gunbuster.

RahOtaku

June 29th, 2004, 10:37 AM

Oopart 5A -the Xephon- is designed after Raideen.

But your comments that Gainax owns us is amusing. Not everything gainax makes is that great.

^_^

shin_gyokakuran

June 29th, 2004, 06:56 PM

yeah if there wasn't gainax rahx will be an original anime. Oh wait scrath that thought.

To each his own, i shouldn't be saying this coz this is a rahx thread. If there was no EVA there wouldn't be a rahxephon.

i rather watch argentsosama or dual:parallel worlds.:lol:

RahOtaku

June 29th, 2004, 07:23 PM

If there was not Evangelion, then there wouldn't be Rahxephon? So Evangelion is better since it came first?

Isn't the same thing true for Mobile Suit Gundam? I could say that If there was no "Tomino" and no Mobile Suit Gundam, then there wouldn't be Eva.

No, I doubt that Anno would have made Eva if he had not watched Mobile suite Gundam. If there wasn't Gunbuster or Ideon, Anno would never had made Evangelion.

To me this type of reasoning is flawed. And I don't agree.

^_^

shin_gyokakuran

June 29th, 2004, 07:33 PM

Yes evangelion is better FOR me.

mobile suits are real robo. Eva and gunbuster nare classified as super. If there was no real robo, there still would be super robots.:lol:It's really possible.

Why copy something, when you can make something better. There are alot of coincidence in Rahx that i say is in eva.>i would be calling it Evangelion:rahxephon saga. Only if i like rahxephon that much which isn't<

I'm really not a fan of rahx so i'm just voicing out my opinion on it.

To edit:
Speaking of roboto origin. I think eva is much more close to mazinger z than to a gundam. :lol:

RahOtaku

June 30th, 2004, 01:53 PM

Well then the reason you like Evangelion better is just because you like Eva.

Well that's fine.

As with Eva or RahXephon being clones, either notion is fool hardy.
^_^

CrossboneGundam

June 30th, 2004, 02:42 PM

This has been said in Ask John articles, but there's nothing Eva has done that hadn't already been done in anime before Eva.
And Rahxephon takes a LOT more from Yuusha Reideen than it does from Evangelion.

But anyway, I like Rahxephon a lot, because it actually has likable characters, unlike Eva.

Quiddity

June 30th, 2004, 02:46 PM

Mako-chan

June 30th, 2004, 02:51 PM

i would be calling it Evangelion:rahxephon saga. Only if i like rahxephon that much which isn't<

A very intelligent option, considering they're entirely different shows.

The Million Dollar Prons

June 30th, 2004, 04:36 PM

RahXephon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evangelion.

Its like comparing Chocolate, to ****.

BebopStampede

June 30th, 2004, 07:04 PM

shin_gyokakuran

June 30th, 2004, 07:16 PM

Eva's influences from Gundam have little to do with the mecha, as Gundam is a real robot show and Eva is much more of a super robot show. But Gundam has the original angsty teenage mecha pilot, Amuro Ray. The character that influenced Gainax into creating Shinji, the main character of Eva. The likenesses are absurd, as I've talked about many times. Since Shinji is the heart and soul of Evangelion, you can certainly argue that Eva would not exist if it wasn't for Gundam. When you say that even without Gundam there would still be giant robot shows, yes(although it should be mentioned that the reason why we call them giant robot shows is because of Gundam), but the effect Gundam had with it's far from perfect main character and the much more realistic and less super heroish storyline was monumental on all that came from the mecha genre from that point on, including both real and giant robot shows.

are you really sure that Amuro was the first angsty teenage mecha pilot? What about Kabuto from mazinger z or Ryoma from getta robo? Go nagai's characters are known to be delinquents too.

So this is a flame. its really foolish for someone>like me< to debate terms on this thread. But we have to experience everything once on a lifetime :lol:

So guys tell me why should i REALLY like Rahx. :P

Mako-chan

June 30th, 2004, 08:33 PM

are you really sure that Amuro was the first angsty teenage mecha pilot? What about Kabuto from mazinger z or Ryoma from getta robo? Go nagai's characters are known to be delinquents too.

So this is a flame. its really foolish for someone>like me< to debate terms on this thread. But we have to experience everything once on a lifetime :lol:

So guys tell me why should i REALLY like Rahx. :P

LOL You don't need to like it, just don't make ignorant statements like it was based off of Evangelion. ^^;

It's like saying Rurouni Kenshin is based off of Blade of the Immortal because they're both samurai series.

Levon

June 30th, 2004, 09:05 PM

So guys tell me why should i REALLY like Rahx. :P

The romance.

hamster

July 1st, 2004, 03:53 AM

What's so good about Rah's romance? What's that dude called, Ayato? - he's not even true to his love. This guy falls in love with a different girl every day of the week. It just happens that the girl from a previous day dies ^^
As for Gundam starting the whole angst-filled teen thing, hmm, I don't think so. I thought the director of eva experienced the same kinda stuff and simply translated it into the anime (or so I've heard.)

Levon

July 1st, 2004, 05:27 AM

Sharp-kun

July 1st, 2004, 05:37 AM

shin_gyokakuran

July 1st, 2004, 06:46 PM

......

They are not remotly comparable. The closest you would get would probably be Tetsuya, and even that's pushing it.

i really don't know the definition of angst in western terms. :lol:

I guess westerners really like rahx for its realistic approach. Sad to say i have a copy of it >rahx<, my brother gave it to me.:lol:

I'm not much into robo romance.
Wonder if rahxephon made it into the SRW series?

http://www.valandria.net/pics/srw/movieshots/funnels.jpg

Sharp-kun

July 2nd, 2004, 04:23 AM

Wonder if rahxephon made it into the SRW series?

http://www.valandria.net/pics/srw/movieshots/funnels.jpg
Rah has featured in Super Robot Wars MX. Makes a good combo with Raideen. It's Akira that helps Ayato in some missions, given the similarities.

shin_gyokakuran

July 3rd, 2004, 03:49 AM

really! man i really have to own a PS2! >damn gamecube!<

hamster

July 9th, 2004, 03:51 AM

Doesn't even seem like you've seen all of RahXephon have you?

Not true to his love :lol: if you only knew. Watch it all before you think you know everything.

he does not "falls in love with a different girl every day of the week", but girls fall in love with him. his heart is for only one person.
I've watched the whole series already.
Hey, not true. Ayato likes Mishima (1st motivation for piloting Rah), "loses" her, nearly sleeps with *can't remember her name* which becomes his next motivation for piloting Rah, loses her too, then finds out *damn, can't remember her name either, the 30ish y/o woman* was his girlfriend earlier and drives rah to protect her... and then what? He becomes a God and "does it" with Quon. His heart is for one person, did you say? Yeah, but it seems temporary and is prone to changing whenever a NEWER, ALIVE girl falls for him.

BebopStampede

July 9th, 2004, 10:26 AM

For someone who has seen the whole series, you sure suck with names.

Levon

July 9th, 2004, 11:52 AM

I've watched the whole series already.
Hey, not true. Ayato likes Mishima (1st motivation for piloting Rah), "loses" her, nearly sleeps with *can't remember her name* which becomes his next motivation for piloting Rah, loses her too, then finds out *damn, can't remember her name either, the 30ish y/o woman* was his girlfriend earlier and drives rah to protect her... and then what? He becomes a God and "does it" with Quon. His heart is for one person, did you say? Yeah, but it seems temporary and is prone to changing whenever a NEWER, ALIVE girl falls for him.

None of that made any sense. Are you sure you've seen all the show?:lol:

Do you even know who Mishima is?
Megumi & Asahina had a crush on him, he was friends with them. Big deal, how does that mean he isn't true to his love? Its not true he falls in love with a different girl every day of the week.
He diddn't have sex with Quon, unless I misunderstood.
Haruka is his true love. Everyone knows that.

NeRv1evangelion

July 14th, 2004, 06:26 AM

Evangelion is my personal favorite of the two. however it was easier for me to relate to ayato and other rah chars. eva is just way too fascinating heh!

hamster

July 15th, 2004, 08:33 AM

None of that made any sense. Are you sure you've seen all the show?:lol:

Do you even know who Mishima is?
Megumi & Asahina had a crush on him, he was friends with them. Big deal, how does that mean he isn't true to his love? Its not true he falls in love with a different girl every day of the week.
He diddn't have sex with Quon, unless I misunderstood.
Haruka is his true love. Everyone knows that.
But the dude keeps having new reasons to pilot the rah, protect Mishima, protect Asahina, protecting Haruka... and in the end he has sex with Quon (when they're goin' to their mechs Quon says something like "don't be too rough".) I mean how did he SUDDENLY fall in love with Haruka, only after SUDDENLY knowing that she was his childhood lover? I didn't see Ayato thinkin' about any of that when Asahina climbed on top of him in bed (that is, before he knew the truth about Haruka. If he didn't mind back then, then obviously his feelings for the woman weren't too deep.)

Krueger

July 22nd, 2004, 05:44 PM

Krueger

July 22nd, 2004, 05:53 PM

nearly sleeps with *can't remember her name* which becomes his next motivation for piloting Rah, loses her too

If you mean Asahina, at that point in the story Ayato thought Haruka was Itsuki's girlfriend since he saw her kissing him in the bar. He kinda wanted to get over her, and saw Asahina as the rebound since she has a crush on him. No better opportunity to get back at her... though I did found it a bit shocking they almost kissed. I think Ayato very well knows that's Mamoru's girl... but of course we know how Asahina feels about Mamoru.

then finds out *damn, can't remember her name either, the 30ish y/o woman* was his girlfriend earlier and drives rah to protect her...

He's been protecting Haruka since the beginning when he got the giant robot.

and then what? He becomes a God and "does it" with Quon. His heart is for one person, did you say? Yeah, but it seems temporary and is prone to changing whenever a NEWER, ALIVE girl falls for him.

"Does it" with Quon? If you mean kill her and aborb her to tune the world, then yes, he "does it" with Quon. Only in the movie version did they used the terms of "making love" for the tuning, and even that is subject to opinion, since we obviously saw them trying to kill each other! :P

And that last comment was not needed.

But the dude keeps having new reasons to pilot the rah, protect Mishima, protect Asahina, protecting Haruka...

He wants to protect those dear to him. He even piloted the RahXephon to protect Mamoru, remember? But of course we know how that ended up. I don't think Ayato got a clue about the whole Mulian/Dolem thing when he fought Asahina. :/

I mean how did he SUDDENLY fall in love with Haruka, only after SUDDENLY knowing that she was his childhood lover?

He didn't suddenly fell in love with her. Did you miss the whole episode where Ayato got trapped in a dolem playing mind tricks on him? Those mind tricks are based on Ayato's feelings, and of course we saw a scene of him with Haruka drinking coffee in the cafe/bar, with him groping her chest and she telling him it's ok... he's always felt attracted to her, just never wanted to be honest with his feelings since Haruka is obviously an older woman, and he's not usually into those. :P Though once he knew who Haruka was, he didn't care about their age difference and decided to be more honest with himself and accept and love the current Haruka. We see this develop slowly as the series progress, and reaching the conclusion of it in episode 24 (first episode in the last DVD).

And technically, it was his teenage lover, a little more mature right? :P

I didn't see Ayato thinkin' about any of that when Asahina climbed on top of him in bed (that is, before he knew the truth about Haruka. If he didn't mind back then, then obviously his feelings for the woman weren't too deep.)

Well... like I said before. At this point in the story, he was feeling betrayed or ignored by Haruka so he thought about going with somebody else. Besides, if you were in bed with a horny cute chick right next to you... would YOU kiss her? :P

goddessofanime

July 24th, 2004, 04:55 PM

I"ve only gotten back into this show recently after seeing the first ten shows last year....but to me, Rahxephon has more likable characters. I haven't gotten that far though where he does that to Asahina...

Spoiler:

is she the pinkhaired girl from the beginning that was hanging out with Ayato and that other kid?

Krueger

July 24th, 2004, 05:02 PM

^No, Megumi is the one with pink hair. Asahina has brown hair.

Asahina
http://www.rahxephon.com/onair/images/chara_asahina.gif

Gasaraki

July 24th, 2004, 07:15 PM

I very much prefer RahXephon, it's probably my favorite anime series while I pretty much hated Evangelion. I just like the story better, the characters are much more likeable. I like the slightly more romance based nature of the show, and the ending is my favorite. I love it, I've watched the series several times now, and I just think it's much better.

Logic89

September 20th, 2004, 02:38 PM

Rahxephon is my second favorite anime of all time but evangelion is #1 in my list. I know a lot of people seem to hate this anime but i'm one of the people who loves this anime. Evangelion has it all good plot,Good characters(though very tragic),good art and music and it also contained very powerful scenes. I'm glad they're doing Eva:platinum..anyway even though rahxephon is agreat series and one of my favorites,I'm gonna go with NGE.

CrossboneGundam

November 10th, 2004, 04:28 AM

If you want to compare Rahxephon to any other anime, compare it to Raideen. The similarities between Eva and Rahxephon are few and far between. Rahxephon is practically a spiritual sequel of sorts to Raideen, considering how similar they are. But it's a waste of time to compare them anyway.

I like Rahxephon a lot more than Eva, by the way.

Ikari_Shinji

November 10th, 2004, 10:27 AM

Sharp-kun

November 10th, 2004, 01:56 PM

Unlike Rahxephon, Eva didn't dive head into the thick of the story, instead, it took its sweet time (better).
Actually no. Much as I love Eva that was its major flaw. Anno wasted time in various things and ended up cramming too much into the last few episodes. Rei's death has little time to impact on the audience, as she's back 5 minutes earlier. Kaworu arrives, but we don't really get to know him before he dies.

Why couldn't Rei have died a bit earlier, and stayed dead before reappearing? That way I might actually have missed her. At the same time, the audience could have been building up a relationship with Kaworu. Plot pacing is not Eva's strong point.

Also, hasn't anyone noticed this "conveniant" similarity between Eva and Rah? ;)
Like the similarity between Space Runaway Ideon and Eva? ;)

Oops :censored:

As CrossboneGundam said anyway, Rah has far more similarities to Raideen than Eva, its just that nobody notices.

Logic89

November 10th, 2004, 07:26 PM

being similar to something else isn't always a guarantee that the product is bad.

There's so much more to rahxephon then its skin similarity and i think its unfair to always compare it to eva(Some people use this comparison to bash rah). there are many things that have similarities but similarities don't lessen the quality,Eva and rah though not free of similarities to previous series are still two well done series(IMO 2 of the best).

Malchiel

December 14th, 2004, 08:45 PM

Here's my take :P some ppl are bashing rahx for being an eva clone because they're very similar.

But if eva were a chimp, and rahx is human, and yea they're very similar, but I wouldn't confuse one with the other. Nor would I confuse which one is better... of course some members of PETA might have a different opinion.

eva is like a work of a half crazed, psychotic director/writter. Barely coherent, hardly cohesive, full of psychotic characters. Rahx on the other hand is very coherent, well planned and thought out, even from the very start. Yes the two are very similar, but whereas EVA is a failure by my standard, Rahx is the perfection of EVA :P

Eva is dumb! Go watch Rahx! :þ Makes way more sense. And yes I watched Eva first, and I hated it. I thought it's a waste of time to even see it. Watching eva is about as interesting as watching psychotic ppl in an asylum, doing crazy stuff. And I don't buy the excuses ppl give to pimp eva. They're just stretched out too thin.

subedii

December 16th, 2004, 08:40 AM

At the risk of getting embroiled into a flame war that I really, really don't want to get myself into (but can't help myself when it comes to giving my opinion :P ) I'd have to say RahXephon over Eva for me.

I liked the characters much more, they seemed much more real to me than those in Eva. Shinji and Rei in particular, just felt too 'angsty' and caricature like for their own good. Just when I thought Rei was going to open up and display some real character developement, she closed up again.

Aside from that, Ayato felt like a much more pro-active character to me than Shinji ever did. That's probably more down to personal preference but I really did feel that Shinji was constantly just letting things happen to him and going with it, while Ayato was making the effort to make his own decisions. Actually, there's a review from over at http://www.themanime.org/viewreview.php?id=761 that sums up quite well why how I feel about the Eva cast at times (although it's a bit on the extreme side. Plus aside from the characters, I disagree with a lot of the rest of the negative stuff he has to say about Eva). I just felt as if they were never really developing as characters.

I could go on about the other caracters and how I felt they contributed, but then, that would probably take ages. However, after skimming through this thread there is one more point I wanted to address, which is the one about Hiroko's death. First off, Ayato definitely knew that he had killed To me that was a superbly handled event in the series, down to Ayato's initial shock and reaction and how he tried to deal with it amongst everything else that was going on as well. How it's handled is subtle, but it's definitely there. Especially come the last episode, where he stops trying to avoid everyone in his life and confronts the choice he has to make. To me, episode 19 was one of the defining moments of the series.

As for the story? I liked RahXephons story because it was fundamentally character based, but don't take that as saying it was better than NGE's. In this area there's definitely a difficulty in comparing the two, because the emphasis of NGE's storyline is firmly and unabashedly more on the philosophical aspects. Here it just depends on what you like to go with.

What else? Animation Quality? Well RahXephon definitely has an advantage here as it was released later, but Eva had some really good action sequences in it as well. So I'd say about even for me. But then, animation quality isn't too much of a deciding factor for most when the show's good. If it were, nobody would bother with Castle of Cagliostro (which incidentally, if you haven't seen, you should). ;)

Music? I think both styles of music really fitted their respective shows, so again, it's hard to compare here. The style of music is fundamentally different. My personal preference, again, has to go with Xephon and it's scene setting melancholy piano solos, but that's down to personal taste.

Overall, I'm going with RahXephon. I will admit though, that I haven't seen Evangelion movie(s). But then, I haven't seen the RahXephon movie either. I'm basing this of the series content. On a final note though, I really can't see how people are saying that Xephon is an Eva clone. To me, they're both very different shows, both in stylistic approach, and in actual storyline.

EDIT: One final thing. You may have noticed that I haven't talked about the endings of either series. This was deliberate. I understand that what is considered the 'true' ending of the Eva series is in the movies, so it would be difficult for me to address that since I haven't seen the movies yet. I loved the ending for RahXephon (the movie doesn't matter too much there since it's essentially a different re-telling of the story), but I don't think it would be right for me to say anything about how Eva ended until I see the movies.

Mordecai

December 16th, 2004, 01:30 PM

Being two of my favorite series it's hard to say which one I enjoy more.
I never really saw the similarities that between them that I had heard so much about.
Even if they were very similar I would still see no reason to hate one or the other.

...but if given a choice to keep only one I would pick Eva.

....maybe :P

ley

December 16th, 2004, 03:00 PM

wow, a very heated topic. Is there one of these in the NGE camp? I'd love to look at that. One thing I've noticed is that Eva fans are almost a stero type and claiming "they stole it from Eva!" is common behaviour.

I like RahXephon, I like almost everything about it. I like NGE just not as much. Why are those two compared? just like Windows and Mac, Pen or Pencil these are there for a reason, to entertain, to create an easy interface, to be able to write/draw. Almost everything is has borrowed something from something else before it lanuage, building, cars, clothing ARRGGHH its too much!!!! LEAVE EACH ALONE AND LOVE BOTH!!

I'd really like to watch the RahXephon moive, anyone played the game? I heard it had some OAV with it

subedii

December 16th, 2004, 04:36 PM

^ Besides, everybody knows that PC pwns Mac. :P

Headcrab

December 16th, 2004, 04:41 PM

I say both because their both series you can sit and have a good cry to

Rahxephon91

December 22nd, 2004, 11:30 PM

I love Rahxephon but I think it has one problem with it. Unlike Eva I dont think we'll be discusing it for as long as EVA. What I'm saying is it dosent have that long lasting appeal. Why?, because Rahxephon has a clear ending.

juri_miki

December 25th, 2004, 12:03 AM

I thought Eva was bettter than Rah because I thought Eva was much more well done, and better thought out. The character development in Eva rivals any anime ever made. Unlike Rahxephon, Eva didn't dive head into the thick of the story, instead, it took its sweet time (better)... A little too similar...

Yeah I think you're COMPLETELY wrong there. If you had a complete understanding of what was going on in Rahxephon you would have not even made that statement. The fact that Eva jam packed it's story until the last minute is as clear as day to anyone who had watched it. Rahxephon may have taken its "sweet time", but you better believe that in each of those 26 episodes there were a couple of stories that were being told, unfolded, and ultimately intertwined.

Like that is as apparent as both Rahxephon and Eva having mecha in their anime. Like I am completely boggled by the fact that you made that statement. Also, the two are NOTHING alike. Both told very DIFFERENT stories. This is also another fact as CLEAR as the sky that both you and I walk underneath.

Goldarmy

December 25th, 2004, 09:56 AM

Could a poll be called a poll if it doesn't have a poll?

For me RahXephon is to Evangelion in the same way Scream is to horror films. Both are great series that I love.

Sharp-kun

December 25th, 2004, 09:57 AM

wow, a very heated topic. Is there one of these in the NGE camp? I'd love to look at that.
Hasn't been in ages.

One thing I've noticed is that Eva fans are almost a stero type and claiming "they stole it from Eva!" is common behaviour.
Actually Rah "stole" more from Yuusha Raideen than it ever did from Eva.

KT Kore

December 26th, 2004, 10:15 AM

What sort of things does RahXephon take from Raideen?

Sharp-kun

December 26th, 2004, 10:16 AM

What sort of things does RahXephon take from Raideen?
The mechs are very similar, and share many attacks (bow for example). Raideens ultimate move, God Voice, also involved it using sound...
Raideen also had had the Mu.

TsunamiShijo

January 21st, 2005, 01:17 PM

Personally i think EVA was a weak anime made by an insane man. Though the concept was good, although it was heavily influenced by MSG and Space Runaway Ideon as is a topic of discussion in the EVA boards so don't start flaming here. RahXephon tells a much more beautuiful story, and does not take the last five minutes of the show in order to tell the entire plot. On top of that EVA was filled with many of what i would like to call filler episodes that were not essential to the show at all. Where as in RahXephon if you miss an episode you won't know what is going on. For example of you miss the episode of EVA where the gigantic angel is a giant explosive, you wont be missing out on anything important to the plot at all, IMHO. RahXephon over EVA any day of the week for me. Someone should put a poll up.

MonkeyBoy0314

January 21st, 2005, 02:09 PM

well, eva is tied for my favorite series (along with trigun), although i have never seen rahxephon before. but im gonna see it tonight, so, ill report back here tomorrow.

Sharp-kun

January 21st, 2005, 02:10 PM

although it was heavily influenced by MSG and Space Runaway Ideon as is a topic of discussion in the EVA boards
What does that have to do with its quality as a show though? MSG and Ideon were both heavily influenced by previous works.

Rahxephon, as I've said many times borrowed heavily from Yuusha Raideen, right down to the Mu and the mecha designs and attacks.

What influnced a show has nothing to do with the quality of that show.

TsunamiShijo

January 21st, 2005, 02:45 PM

That not the point I was trying to make. I was simply stating that because im tired of people saying that RahX rips off of Eva. And as i've stated many times Eva has a weak story supported by strong emotional content. which doesnt make for an amazing anime IMO.

layn

January 21st, 2005, 08:44 PM

Eva has a better research and concept than Rahxephon. I don't even remember what was Rahxephon historical concept.

Eternal Love

January 21st, 2005, 09:14 PM

I very much prefer Rah over Eva. To be honest the first 15 episodes of Eva weren't really good to begin with. The story was inconsistenly presented and very rushed as i was only compelled to rewatch the later part of the series to clarify the story. In Rah's case however, the story was crafted so well that everything was done for a reason as every episode presented a new twist that will keep u guessing and never gets ahead of itself. The thing that really bothered me the most in Eva was the characters who were very shallow and unconvincing and of coursed very self centered. The characters were depressing but never real as they all try to get sympathy but never the answers in which we all try to find in life, annex with the dismal character development that was truly forced onto the characters. As for the characters in Rah, they're all very easy to empathize and are sympathetic which is shown very well in the main character Ayato Kamina who is not afraid to express his true feelings nor afraid to seek answers and be strong in hard times. The character development is maneuvered wonderfully as u come closer and closer to an understanding of all the indiviual characters. I don't think eva is bad but the only thing that i truly liked about the series was the complex story. Overall, i can't say enough great things about Rahxephon as it is one of my top favorites and also the last anime that i truely enjoy greatly of.

Mr. Tines

January 23rd, 2005, 09:10 AM

The thing that really bothered me the most in Eva was the characters ... As for the characters in Rah, they're all very easy to empathize and are sympathetic which is shown very well in the main character Ayato Kamina...

Now I admit I'm not yet in a position to make a fair like-for-like comparison, as I've not seen the RahX movie yet, but...

There's no doubt that the characters in RahX are much nicer people who have generally have their acts together, whereas, excepting possibly the bridge bunnies, everyone in NGE needs counselling at the very least. And that if one judged the series by the lead character, Ayato beats Shinji by a mile - when Ayato refuses to pilot, he is amenable to reasoned persuasion by Kim.

The advances in the state of the art mean that the visual quality of RahX is much the lusher; and the soundtrack - especially the intro and outro tracks, of RahX are much more to my taste than those of NGE (I tend to play them for RahX and skip them for NGE). And RahX provided closure whereas NGE, even with EoE left things open at the end.

Yet for all the points I listed that would seem to argue in favour of RahX, NGE is the one I found the more affecting on an emotional level (watching EoE again would be hard work) - RahX was much drier, and intellectually engaging in comparison.

Perhaps it was the larger cast making it less easy to get into any individual character; perhaps it was because they were not so demanding of solace, but when the story of RahX was done, there was nothing more I felt needed to be said.

EDIT

Of course there are negative comparisons that can be made. The fairest one I know of is to start with the comparison between Classic Star Trek, and Next Generation. It has been said (I've only seen a couple of episodes of tNG so can't vouch for this) that tNG took the main characters from Classic, and split the obvious traits of each of them between two characters e.g.

Kirk -> Picard (commander) + Ryker (womanizer, action hero)

In the same vein, one could call RahX Eva:tNG by noting

Misato -> Haruka (emotionally troubled guardian) + Elvy (hard drinking military type)

Asuka -> Meg (potential girlfriend) + Kim (tragic past)

Gendo -> Jin (leader) + Prof Kamina (father who does not acknowledge his offspring)

Rei -> Mishima Reika (mysteriously appearing girl) + Quon (enigmatic peer)

and possibly more if I could remember the names of the RahX characters

MightyDustLoop

January 28th, 2005, 12:45 AM

Don't think I can live without either of these two shows, though Eva's earlier existence made it a greater factor in my life. First anime TV show I collected, buying each VHS for MSRP as they were released. Wouldn't be in anime without it. Rah is a more tightly planned, highly "tuned" show, but Eva, for its time, it was certainly something out of the ordinary for me. But then, most people into anime then who were attracted to Eva hadn't already seen Gunbuster and Ideon. Those shows were comparitively low-key, so rehashing them in such a way that brought their concepts to the attention of many watchers is something worthy of admiration.

Infrazael

March 21st, 2006, 11:40 PM

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

RahXephon and Neon Genesis Evangelion have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THEMES presented in each respective Anime.

I'll go into detail later, but these two are NOTHING ALIKE in my opinion. A simple discourse of philosophy, theology, and fiction should solve this quarrel in no time. But apparently, people would rather make connections on the lowest and obvious levels, rather than looking at the allegorical context presented in each respective Anime.

Infrazael

April 19th, 2006, 11:00 PM

Here's another viewpoint.

EVA tackles the depths of the mind via methods that are like "OMG I'm Acid!!!"

EVA is pretty much 80% introspective

There's so much internal crap that half of it is worthless . . . . . . . . the idea is "oh we make it look all complex and stuff."

RahXephon is more "complete" IMO . . . . . in the sense that its pacing is like 100 times better.

ALSO:

It's a rather STUPID argument to say that "if EVA is more psychological, then it's mroe intellectual," and then go on saying how "well RahX is just a love story etc, etc" . . .

Because face it, I can begin to discuss the philosophy of "love" for 5 pages, the ideas surrounding it, the reality of such a notion etc, and its context within RahXephon.

i can take the Ayato-Reika-Asahina triangle and make that in and of itself a philosophical discussion on the human condition and "love," reality, determinism/causality, etc, but that's being stupid. people draw connections where there ISN'T MEANT TO BE ANY.

Gboz

April 20th, 2006, 02:05 AM

Whether you believe it or not, RahXephon was inspired a great deal by Evangelion. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but Rah is not the groundbreaker Eva was at all.

Infrazael

April 20th, 2006, 10:52 AM

Eva was a groundbreaker because it was popular. What about Space Runaway Ideon?

Levon

April 20th, 2006, 11:00 AM

Whether you believe it or not, RahXephon was inspired a great deal by Evangelion.

Whether you believe it or not, Evangelion was inspired a greater deal by Ideon.

Infrazael

April 20th, 2006, 11:03 AM

Whether you believe it or not, Evangelion was inspired a greater deal by Ideon.

Hahaha.

Everything is inspired by something else. Everything simply "is" because there is not other option (well if something was A, it can't be B).

Anyways I'll stop my rantings regarding determinism and logical axioms.

drgenestarwind

April 20th, 2006, 07:34 PM

EVA is very.....well, you get a lot of information in a short period of time and its painful on the mind. Rah is more slowly presented to tell the story. IMO i prefer NGE.

Infrazael

April 20th, 2006, 09:02 PM

EVA is very.....well, you get a lot of information in a short period of time and its painful on the mind. Rah is more slowly presented to tell the story. IMO i prefer NGE.

Right. And I can go on a rant about how inferior pacing/directing makes RahX better, but I won't because that's a stupid argument.

Seriously, people talk as if they understand philosophy, but in truth, they have no clue what they're talking about =_=

Gboz

April 20th, 2006, 09:21 PM

True. I don't argue. But I think it was obvious that the director of Rah had watched Eva quite a bit before creating the series.

Infrazael

April 20th, 2006, 09:31 PM

True. I don't argue. But I think it was obvious that the director of Rah had watched Eva quite a bit before creating the series.

I took many things from both RahX and EVA when I started creating short stories for a fantasy setting my friend and I are making.

Does that mean I'm stealing stuff? Well if you're an extremist, I guess you could say yes.

But I think it's simply influence -- when something is that superb, you can't help but be influenced.

Gboz

April 21st, 2006, 12:53 PM

I took many things from both RahX and EVA when I started creating short stories for a fantasy setting my friend and I are making.

Does that mean I'm stealing stuff? Well if you're an extremist, I guess you could say yes.

But I think it's simply influence -- when something is that superb, you can't help but be influenced.
That's why I said Rah was INSPIRED by Eva. I didn't say stealing.

GadmaCross4

May 12th, 2006, 11:53 AM

I just finished watching all of RahXephon... I thought it had a beatiful love story... That's one thing that is in Rah that makes it different than Eva. I thought it was very emotional and kinda cute...
But.... I don't think there is much to compare between Evangelion and RahXephon... we might as well try to compare Pokemon with Eva, that it'd be almost the same...
RahXephon is a beutiful story that I was glad to see, I think the story was a lot more beautiful than that of evangelion... but evangelion was not meant to be a fairy tale with a happy ending in the first place so everybody should take that into count before judging. Rah is nice, but it can't be compared to Eva to the same degree that some are doing.
I see a lot of people comparing the music, the action, how likeable the characters are, etc and then trying to come up with a decision on which one is better based on that... It seems like judging poems based on how beautiful the hand writing and the notebook in which they were written is...
RahXephon is a beautiful story, one of the most beautiful I've seen....

But talking about Evangelion that way is irrelevant, because Evangelion is definitely about what Anno is trying to tell.. Eva is about the meaning... So even if evangelion was made in Charles Chaplin's time with no sound and B&W, that wouldn't take away any of the greatness of its essence.
http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-m26/m26_C459_i_big.jpg
Evangelion will be there, and people are going to keep talking about it for years to come... In some way it makes sense comparing NGE itself with Eva-01 in the EoE... after Yui said that the earth, the moon and the sun someday are going to dissapear but unit01 will still be there... Eva will be a testimony of humanity's existence and how great of a species we were..... And this related to the story would mean that Neon Genesis Evangelion and its message will live on (forever maybe) even after all the others from its time are forgotten...

But, will RahXephon?

Soluzar

May 12th, 2006, 01:21 PM

That's why I said Rah was INSPIRED by Eva. I didn't say stealing.

I think it was inspired a whole lot more by things like Raideen. Sharp-kun pointed out just how much, only one page back. There are two of these pointless threads bumped right now. :P

VSh

May 15th, 2006, 10:29 AM

I finally gave up and watched RahXephon a week ago. It was not good. Don't scream - it was enjoyable. Definitely, it was worth to watch once.

This is a comparison thread between Evangelion (NGE) and RahXephon (RX). Yes, plots of shows are very similar. OK, let's begin.

Heroes in NGE are 14 years old, in RX are about 17. Interesting that their intended auditory are exactly reverse. Though even children can watch NGE, obviously they cannot understand many things due lack of life experience. RX is somewhat childish, it is amazing how adult characters are infantile. I can understand it, RX's creators tried to make the show more understandable for young people, but they made it in a wrong way, in my opinion.

Music is supposed to be the main point in RX, it has failed also. NGE music is a masterpiece. RX - there is almost no music here. The best (read good enough) is ending theme "Fledgling Dream" by Ichiko Hashimoto. Opening theme "Hemisphere" is one of the worst works of Yoko Kanno. It looks like she tried to avoid any references in her melody. Rest sounds are simply random and don't have any independent significance. Of course it isn't the sound I want the world "suffused" with.

About animation. RX is painted better, but again something isn't enough here. Many faces are similar and emotions aren't natural. In NGE the art is simpler, but much warmer, and looks more alive.

NGE has some defects, but they are relatively small and destiny of geeks in Evangelion forum. RX simply has too much that should have been made better. I am afraid, but all this says about weak effort of creators or absence of talent.

Malchiel

May 20th, 2006, 06:24 PM

I finally gave up and watched RahZephon a week ago. It was not good. Don't scream - it was enjoyable. Definitely, it was worth to watch once.

This is a comparison thread between Evangelion (NGE) and RahZephon (RX). Yes, plots of shows are very similar. OK, let's begin.

Heroes in NGE are 14 years old, in RX are about 17. Interesting that their intended auditory are exactly reverse. Though even children can watch NGE, obviously they cannot understand many things due lack of life experience. RX is somewhat childish, it is amazing how adult characters are infantile. I can understand it, RX's creators tried to make the show more understandable for young people, but they made it in a wrong way, in my opinion.

Music is supposed to be the main point in RX, it has failed also. NGE music is a masterpiece. RX - there is almost no music here. The best (read good enough) is ending theme "Fledgling Dream" by Ichiko Hashimoto. Opening theme "Hemisphere" is one of the worst works of Yoko Kanno. It looks like she tried to avoid any references in her melody. Rest sounds are simply random and don't have any independent significance. Of course it isn't the sound I want the world "suffused" with.

About animation. RX is painted better, but again something isn't enough here. Many faces are similar and emotions aren't natural. In NGE the art is simpler, but much warmer, and looks more alive.

NGE has some defects, but they are relatively small and destiny of geeks in Evangelion forum. RX simply has too much that should have been made better. I am afraid, but all this says about weak effort of creators or absence of talent.

I always get a laugh out of ppl who think that Eva is mature...

Hate to tell you this, Eva is not mature. Eva is for 14 year old teenagers who are depressed, ain't got no friend, live in a dysfunctional home and is an emo. In fact eva is something those teenagers that're involved in cases such as Columbine shooting would come up with if they became a director. Pshtt it's no surprise that Ano himself wasn't psychologically healthy.

In fact Eva looks like it's written by some madman or a cult leader or both. Chuckle. If you call any of these type of ppl mature <_< You need to chk in with a psychiatric. In fact Eva is the perfect anime for otakus and 14 year old emos like I've described above, who 's pretty much given up on life and is susceptible to bouts of bitter ranting about the world in general.

Now Rahxephon on the other hand IS mature. It's an anime for ppl who're mentally healthy, who's more capable in dealing with their personal demons, who's has tasted love, perhaps even love with a beautiful older woman, as have I ;) Who understands the meaning of faithfulness, perseverance to the point of being fatalistic.

Now that's maturity for you. It's not some kids crying, screaming every eps, and blowing up the world. And let's not even get to the art, art in Eva is laughable, the monsters look like something I drew when I was 5 year old XD So much for maturity indeed!

Well just may be... may be... the ppl in Rahxephon are talentless dolts, but hey at least they're normal ;) And not some half crazed, yes childish madman who can't cope with his own demons and let it spill all over his professional life. ;)

Soluzar

May 20th, 2006, 07:05 PM

Malchiel, we all get that you don't like Evangelion. Nobody is in any doubt about this. We all get that you like RahXephon. Nobody is in any doubt about that either.

What I don't understand is why you have to be so rude about the sort of people who like it. There's no way to get around the fact that what you wrote is just plain rude. So was my first response, too. There's no getting around that either, but I am not going to sink to your level. God knows, I want to, but I'm not going to. Just take your enormous chip that you have there on your shoulder and go somewhere else, because you know what? Nobody is impressed, except you and your (probably fictious) older woman.

Samurai Drifter

May 21st, 2006, 10:23 AM

I always get a laugh out of ppl who think that Eva is mature...

Hate to tell you this, Eva is not mature. Eva is for 14 year old teenagers who are depressed, ain't got no friend, live in a dysfunctional home and is an emo. In fact eva is something those teenagers that're involved in cases such as Columbine shooting would come up with if they became a director. Pshtt it's no surprise that Ano himself wasn't psychologically healthy.

In fact Eva looks like it's written by some madman or a cult leader or both. Chuckle. If you call any of these type of ppl mature <_< You need to chk in with a psychiatric. In fact Eva is the perfect anime for otakus and 14 year old emos like I've described above, who 's pretty much given up on life and is susceptible to bouts of bitter ranting about the world in general.
Yeah, because everyone knows observations on psychological human behavior are immature. Just because someone's view of the world isn't particularly bright doesn't mean they're "emos". Eva points out that there are walls that form between people; that keep them from forming close relationships largely due to the way they were raised. That's basic psychology.

Now Rahxephon on the other hand IS mature. It's an anime for ppl who're mentally healthy, who's more capable in dealing with their personal demons, who's has tasted love, perhaps even love with a beautiful older woman, as have I ;) Who understands the meaning of faithfulness, perseverance to the point of being fatalistic.
I don't understand how maturity = mental stability. And the characters in Eva aren't capable of dealing with their personal demons. Don't you think that's more realistic? People ultimately succumb to the flaws of their own personality. And if I remember correctly, Ayato wasn't all that well off mentally for much of RahXephon.

Well just may be... may be... the ppl in Rahxephon are talentless dolts, but hey at least they're normal ;) And not some half crazed, yes childish madman who can't cope with his own demons and let it spill all over his professional life. ;)
Ah, so I suppose your the type who dislikes anything different because it's not "normal". I suppose, then, you dislike the work of Salvador Dali and Pablo Picasso because it's "weird". That type of mindset is so incredibly different from mine I can't even identify with it enough to argue it, so I'll just say this: RahXephon and Evangelion actually had many similarities in the mentality (and "weirdness") department. Remember about halfway through the series when Ayato is trapped in a dream world? That's not much different from the last two episodes of Evangelion. Ayato's inner thoughts and temptations took physical form.

Now, all of that said, I think I like RahXephon better than Evangelion. But both are good, and you put forth moronic (and rude, as Soluzar said) reasons for thinking otherwise.

Joeshie

May 22nd, 2006, 01:07 PM

Don't worry about Malchiel. He is just a troll that won't leave AN.

Whenever I think about Malchiel, I always think about this comic. Except replace Jack Thompson with Malchiel and the Pong video game with an Evangelion VHS.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/Jack_Thompson.jpg

VSh

May 23rd, 2006, 07:08 AM

@Malchiel: All gifted people are psychologically unhealthy. Unfortunately it doesn't work in reverse direction.

Yeah, because everyone knows observations on psychological human behavior are immature.
It is some unusual thesis. On the contrary, people that outlived their juvenile egocentrism are interested in psychological experience of other people, and try to understand their hidden motives and thoughts. Else they can't be successful with their spouses/partners, children, colleagues, etc.

Eva points out that there are walls that form between people; that keep them from forming close relationships largely due to the way they were raised. That's basic psychology.
Yes, but it isn't the point of NGE. The main point is consequences.

And the characters in Eva aren't capable of dealing with their personal demons. Don't you think that's more realistic? People ultimately succumb to the flaws of their own personality.
They are capable enough for usual life. Their demons are well hidden and need years of life to show. Anno put them in extreme situations to do it in short period of time.

Everyone has his/her demons. Welcome to the real life!

Patthebeast

May 29th, 2006, 11:41 PM

I first watched NGE when I was like 12. So at that point I was more interested in sappy romances and badass robot fights. Naturally I was confused and dissatisfied. However im now 14 and watching it for the second time. But my problem is and was that with all the christian stuff thrown in there you miss the pysc points the series tries to make. I think NGE does have many simalarities to The Wall [pink floyd, look it up] in that its about the metaphorical wall around you [a.t. field] and the fact that being on drugs helps you understand it. Another thing I think is that NGE is a great work with deep meaning that cant be fully understood by anyone but its creator. Staying on thread topic though- I dont think you can compare the art seeing as NGE was done before rahxephon. Music wise I dont believe opening and ending amv's are what this should be judged on but the music that sets the atmosphere [battle music, sad music etc] personally in this respect I prefered RahXephon. The stories are totally different so you cant compare them deeper than personal preferance. One final thing about NGE that made me angry was the fact that shinji was such a loser. Masturbating over a girl in a coma?! also he made me depressed and I watch anime to escape from reality, not get dragged down. kinda like a bad acid trip. expecting bunnys and stuff but instead getting chased by feral dogs. whatever I get too angry from single characters and they end up ruining it for me.

So my final word is that I enjoyed rahxephon a bit more due to the lack of extraneous symbolism, and a non-retarded main character

ps. sorry for the bad spelling, grammar, and lack of general sense in my post. its 2:40 and im sleepy

VSh

August 8th, 2006, 06:24 AM

Forgot to finish the opponent:

Well just may be... may be... the ppl in Rahxephon are talentless dolts, but hey at least they're normal
I would say untreated. Have you watched extras on RahXephon DVDs?

Uchiha-Itachi

August 8th, 2006, 08:34 AM

eva over raXephon. not only is EVA>RahXephon, RahXephon is just a hard-copy of Evangelion. i'd rather the original

Westlo

August 8th, 2006, 02:33 PM

dbz over naruto. not only is dbz>naruto, naruto is just a hard-copy of dbz. i'd rather the original

Levon

August 8th, 2006, 02:45 PM

Or.

eva over raXephon. not only is EVA>RahXephon, RahXephon is just a hard-copy of Evangelion. i'd rather the original

ideon over eva. not only is IDEON>Evangelion, Evangelion is just a hard-copy of Ideon. i'd rather the original

:rolleyes:

Uchiha-Itachi

August 9th, 2006, 06:38 AM

This thread is asking you a question you can obviously only have an opinionated answer.

p.s. Many Naruto/ DBZ Fanz like myself would kill you for such an outrageous statement.
and, i do like Ideon better than EVA.

Uchiha-Itachi

August 9th, 2006, 06:51 AM

1.I stated the truth: Rah is a copy of EVA
2. i stated my opinion.: EVA> Rah
3. im through with these threads and idiodic statements that keep 'em alive. both the shows ARE GOOD.

NOW SHUTUP

Westlo

August 9th, 2006, 07:04 AM

Kill over that statement? Please take your pathetic trash talk elsewhere.

Bernard_Monsha

August 9th, 2006, 08:11 AM

Gentlemen, please take your lame attempts at Machismo somewere else.

DarthMigit

August 12th, 2006, 05:55 AM

This will be my only comment, for what the comment of a newbie like me is worth.

The very fact that RahXephon shares traits with NGE is a clear testement to its inferiority. NGE did it first, RahXephon copied, what are we still arguing about?

I dispute long winded comparisons with two similar shows. The fact is they are both great works of anime but NGE was original, RahXephon was not.

We need a poll here...

Westlo

August 12th, 2006, 09:28 AM

All of what I say next is fact and not opinion.

Studio Bones made RahXephon
Studio Bones are made up of Ex Studio Sunrise Members
Evangelion was inspired by several Sunrise animes.

Now for opinion....

Japanese viewpoint

Mazinger Z ----- Gundam --- Ideon --- Macross ---Zeta Gundam ------- Gunbuster ----------------Evangelion - Escaflowne -------- RahXephon

Western viewpoint

Evangelion - Escaflowne -------- RahXephon --- Fafner

Unless people actually make the effort to watch what came before Evangelion they will more than likely assume that Eva did things first because it's the oldest thing they saw that did them.

See how Escaflowne came after Evangelion? It was called a ripoff of Eva back in 01 by quite a few people just because it contained mechas. (Yep it's true, even though their was promos for Escaflowne before Eva) This is what I mean by how people just judge based off what they have seen.

Now imagine the anime boom happened 2 years ago.....

<Hypothetical late anime boom>

RahXephon --- Fafner --- <insert another mecha title>

Now you would have people calling Fafner and whatever else is in the genre a ripoff of RahXephon and the people who bring up Ideon would be bringing up Eva instead.

Just because you watch an anime do something first does not mean it was the first or only anime to do it. FFS look outside anime, something you think is original has more than likely been done before in some form of film or novel.

Krueger

August 12th, 2006, 06:49 PM

Van > This Thread
RahXephon > Evangelion
Me > You

End of story. Lock. Ban. Delete.

SKaze

August 15th, 2006, 12:59 PM

I think RahXephon is more or less of an Eva copy. It has some interesting ideas, like the whole music/sound topic, but otherwise it is mostly inferior to Eva. And I'm not necessarily a big Eva fan.

Roland

August 15th, 2006, 02:53 PM

Levon

August 15th, 2006, 03:05 PM

Evangelion sort of created this new mecha genre, much like how Mobile Suit Gundam credted a new giant robot genre. First there were Super Robots, then realistic mecha & now this more philosophical mecha.

Its like saying after Mobile Suit Gundam that mecha anime such as Macross is a rip-off.

Ark

August 15th, 2006, 03:11 PM

This is becoming one VERY sad topic... And what is it exactly that has Eva fans so turned on when they hear the name RahXephon? I can't seem to recall any Rah fan EVER starting this topic.

Every positive review I've read of Rah (which is sadly most of them) makes reference to Eva.If people are saying ridiculous crap like "Rah was the show Eva tried to be" whose fault is that?

Its like saying after Mobile Suit Gundam that mecha anime such as Macross is a rip-off.

Does MSG have giant aliens and pop idols?

Levon

August 15th, 2006, 03:34 PM

Every positive review I've read of Rah (which is sadly most of them) makes reference to Eva.If people are saying ridiculous crap like "Rah was the show Eva tried to be" whose fault is that?

AnimeOnDVD, Chriss says "This review is 100% Evangelion-Comparison free.".

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/reviews/display.php?id=434

^ Nothing EVA....

Does MSG have giant aliens and pop idols?

Does Evangelion have singing mecha & romance story?:rolleyes:

The point I was making is that just because an anime was influenced by another doesn't mean its a rip-off.

Evangelion fanboys seem to confuse "influence" with "rip-off" & "copy". I'v always found Evangelion fans to be way too arrogant, even before RahXephon was made.

Ark

August 15th, 2006, 04:00 PM

AnimeOnDVD, Chriss says "This review is 100% Evangelion-Comparison free.".

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/reviews/display.php?id=434

^ Nothing EVA....

I'm praying to God that was supposed to be ironic for the sake of your soul.

Does Evangelion have singing mecha & romance story?:rolleyes:

Ramiel sings. And Eva did have a love story.Why do you ask that anyway?

Did RahXephon?

The point I was making is that just because an anime was influenced by another doesn't mean its a rip-off.

I agree. Calling it a rip-off suggests that what it borrowed increased its quality.I'd call it a caricature.

Krueger

August 15th, 2006, 05:49 PM

This is becoming one VERY sad topic... And what is it exactly that has Eva fans so turned on when they hear the name RahXephon? I can't seem to recall any Rah fan EVER starting this topic. If all you Eva fanboys out there are SO sure of the might and fury of The Show®, then WHY insist on stomping over the "inferior" Xephon?

I know, seriously. People often ask me why I hate Evangelion so much, and the fans are like 80% of the reason. It doesn't help that I'm also a RahXephon fan so I get double the heat.

And Eva did have a love story.Why do you ask that anyway? Did RahXephon?
What love story? Misato and what's his name? Shinji jerking off to a half-naked Asuka? How can you even compare the intricate love story of RahXephon to whatever was in Evangelion?

I agree. Calling it a rip-off suggests that what it borrowed increased its quality.I'd call it a caricature.
Calling a rip-off doesn't suggest increased quality, what kind of person would even say that? A rip-off, like plagerism, is a blatant copy without giving credit where it deserves. RahXephon is no rip-off, it had many influences other than Evangelion and ones much better at that.

A caricature, or cartoon, is a parody. Would you care to elaborate on how RahXephon is a parody? Does it ridicule any other anime by exagerating certain traits? Dual! is a parody, Nadesico is a parody... these are shows that openly and bluntly make fun of Evangelion and other mecha. RahXephon's goal was no where close to a parody. This is actually the first time I heard someone even say this of all the RahXephon attacks I've defended.

At least get your facts straight before you lash out an attack like this one again. The only conclusion I can come for someone to say a comment like this one is to rile fans up.

Roland

August 16th, 2006, 12:47 AM

Every positive review I've read of Rah (which is sadly most of them) makes reference to Eva.If people are saying ridiculous crap like "Rah was the show Eva tried to be" whose fault is that?

"Ridiculous crap" is something I'm tempted to use right now but since I'm SUCH a cool guy, I won't. Anyhow, if the whole Eva community tries to mantain their delusion that Evangelion is the one and only show that is, was, and shall EVER be, and that makes people who liked RahXephon say it is better, than whose fault is that?

And Eva has a love story almost as much as Hellraiser had...

Mordecai

August 16th, 2006, 02:39 AM

You know... Hellraiser's love story was amazing.

Roland

August 16th, 2006, 03:18 AM

Yeah, wasn't it just...

Soluzar

August 16th, 2006, 03:31 AM

This is becoming one VERY sad topic... And what is it exactly that has Eva fans so turned on when they hear the name RahXephon? I can't seem to recall any Rah fan EVER starting this topic.
You forgot Malchiel the uber-troll. He'd come into the Eva forum to pick this fight, and he wasn't certainly the most venomous poster on this subject I've ever encountered.

Ark

August 16th, 2006, 03:40 AM

I know, seriously. People often ask me why I hate Evangelion so much, and the fans are like 80% of the reason.

What a ridiculous basis to judge something.I hate the first Matrix film and I think it gets an insane amount of praise but that has nothing to do with why I don't like it. Likewise I think Shrek gets way too much praise but I still find it mildly entertaining.

What love story? Misato and what's his name? Shinji jerking off to a half-naked Asuka? How can you even compare the intricate love story of RahXephon to whatever was in Evangelion?

I was being slightly sarcastic (obviously I know RahXephon was supposed to have a love story) but I'd say Asuka and Shinji's relationship was more interesting, less absurd and less sexist than RahXephon. If you want I'll explain why.

Calling a rip-off doesn't suggest increased quality, what kind of person would even say that? A rip-off, like plagerism, is a blatant copy without giving credit where it deserves. RahXephon is no rip-off, it had many influences other than Evangelion and ones much better at that.

People generally call something a rip-off as excuse to why it's so good.

The point is that RahXephon borrows too many things from Eva.I assume Big O was influenced by Eva as well but the elements it borrows from Eva you could count on one hand. That isn't the case with RahXephon.

A caricature, or cartoon, is a parody. Would you care to elaborate on how RahXephon is a parody? Does it ridicule any other anime by exagerating certain traits?

It's Eva with three times as many main characters, humanoid martians controling the angels and Shinji falling in love with Misato. Sounds like a parody to me.

Roland

August 16th, 2006, 03:48 AM

You forgot Malchiel the uber-troll. He'd come into the Eva forum to pick this fight, and he wasn't certainly the most venomous poster on this subject I've ever encountered.

Still, it's one person. See how many of you are here? I think half the people who write in this forum are actually Eva fans, trying to bash Xephon. It's sick.

Ark

August 16th, 2006, 04:29 AM

I think half the people who write in this forum are actually Eva fans, trying to bash Xephon. It's sick.

Considering the few people who actually come to this forum overall. Yeah it is pretty sick.

Roland

August 16th, 2006, 04:37 AM

Well, unlike the "Shinji is gay! I have it on tape!" kind of topics one can see in Eva forum, Rah fans don't need to actually TALK about their favourite show as much...

Ark

August 16th, 2006, 04:40 AM

Rah fans don't need to actually TALK about their favourite show as much...

I think "can't talk" would have been more relevant.

Soluzar

August 16th, 2006, 04:48 AM

Still, it's one person. See how many of you are here? I think half the people who write in this forum are actually Eva fans, trying to bash Xephon. It's sick.
Hey, excuse me, but... screw that. When did I bash RahXehpon? Nope. I don't think it's an Eva clone, I don't dislike it, and I'm not wasting my life away criticising it on this forum. I don't find it to be one of my favourites either, but you'll find that I haven't said anything in this topic that is actually critical of RahXephon.

I find Ark's behaviour to be just as appalingly misguided as I find Malchiel's to be.

Ark

August 16th, 2006, 05:00 AM

Levon

August 16th, 2006, 05:10 AM

Hey, excuse me, but... screw that. When did I bash RahXehpon? Nope. I don't think it's an Eva clone, I don't dislike it, and I'm not wasting my life away criticising it on this forum. I don't find it to be one of my favourites either, but you'll find that I haven't said anything in this topic that is actually critical of RahXephon.

I find Ark's behaviour to be just as appalingly misguided as I find Malchiel's to be.

He said "half" & your on the half that doesn't bash & act like an arrogant fanboy:P

I'm praying to God that was supposed to be ironic for the sake of your soul.

I diddn't know you were so literal, I thought you just meant reviews that compare the two.

Yes, Chris says "This review is 100% Evangelion-Comparison free." but thats all. It doesn't mean anything, he is just saying he won't compare the two like all the fans do. BTW it was an EVA fan who created this thread & they always seem to compare the two when they mention Rahxephon like yourself.

And that ANN review says nothing of Evangelion.

Ramiel sings. And Eva did have a love story.Why do you ask that anyway?

Ramiel sings?:lol: I thought it was just making a creepy noise, didn't sound like singing to me.

EVA have a love story?:lol: There are Disney films with better & more romance. Theres hardly romance at all.

If people like RahXephon more than Eva then that's their choice.

However if they're gonna be making objective arguements about why Rah is better than Eva then I feel obliged to step in.

So your saying your fine if people like RahXephon more than Evangelion but they can't give their reasons why they like RahXephon more than Evangelion. I'm sure no matter what the reasons are you'll find them to be an "objective arguement".

I like RahXephon more than Evangelion because for one the characters, you actually care about them unlike Evangelion where most are annoying & messed up in the head.

Also Evangelion follows an annoying monster of the week theme of beating Angels that RahXephon doesn't.

Roland

August 16th, 2006, 05:14 AM

I think "can't talk" would have been more relevant.

I' sorry, was that supposed to be sarcastic or smthg? You are being uninventive, my friend :)

Soluzar

August 16th, 2006, 05:14 AM

What behaviour?

If people like RahXephon more than Eva then that's their choice.
Well, for starters I don't find your arguments either convincing or logical, arguably because I've got more experience of the mecha genre, and recognise the influences that it takes from much more obscure shows. For another thing, I find it hard to approve of posts like this:

I think "can't talk" would have been more relevant.
I just don't think it's wise or appropriate for you to be snarky when your arguments for the superiority of Eva are mostly based on a house-of-cards that takes as a foundational assumption that Rah is anything more than trivially referential of Eva.

I also just don't see the point of this discussion, and as such, I find the behaviour of all those who are seriously presenting arguments either way to be wanting to a certain degree. Neither anime is superior. You prefer one, Roland prefers another. End of discussion, right?

I mean, this topic has been alive in one thread or another since before I even found AnimeNation Forums. It was boring back then, and it's boring now. Getting involved in this discussion on a partisan basis is nothing to be proud of. The same goes for most other vs. threads that try to compare apples to oranges.

Ark

August 16th, 2006, 05:25 AM

I' sorry, was that supposed to be sarcastic or smthg? You are being uninventive, my friend :)

I'm saying Rah isn't multi-layered. There are plenty of things to discuss about Eva (although they've all possibly been discussed now be someone) that aren't stupid like "Is Shinji gay or not". Though I don't actually think that is as stupid as it sounds considering there is evidence for and against it.

Soluzar

August 16th, 2006, 05:26 AM

He said "half" & your on the half that doesn't bash & act like an arrogant fanboy:P
Actually, he did say half. I just saw the word "you", and failed to take "half" into account. I have to say, it might be nice to get some proper RahXephon discussion going again. When was the last time we actually had a decent thread about the characters, or anything other than how RahXephon is influenced by other anime?

I can't say it's a favourite of mine, but it's still a mecha anime that I like. I'd talk about it if anyone else was talking about it.

Ark

August 16th, 2006, 05:33 AM

I just don't think it's wise or appropriate for you to be snarky when your arguments for the superiority of Eva are mostly based on a house-of-cards that takes as a foundational assumption that Rah is anything more than trivially referential of Eva.

I didn't watch RahXephon assuming it was going to be like anything.I was actually hoping to enjoy it. The Eva borrowings are not the main weakness of the show or why Eva is better although they don't help.In fact the reason why I was so suprised by them is probably because I didn't expect them to be that severe.

Westlo

August 16th, 2006, 05:33 AM

I mean, this topic has been alive in one thread or another since before I even found AnimeNation Forums. It was boring back then, and it's boring now. Getting involved in this discussion on a partisan basis is nothing to be proud of. The same goes for most other vs. threads that try to compare apples to oranges.

I've seen this topic and argued in them many times, as far as I've concerned no one's arguments are as compelling as the massive Rah/Eva thread from AnimeOnDvd. That was an epic argument especially since the flamming was kept to a minimum.

EvaXephon's website though stunned me in the sheer scope of it's stupidity. I would argue that Ayato's Scream in episode 2, is closer to Gohans from Cell Saga, than Shinji's in Eva.

Ayato screamed because someone he knew (in his mind she was a schoolmate) *apparantly* died
Gohan screamed because someone he knew died
Shinji screamed because he saw the true form of the Eva

While Gohan had it zoom out of his pupli for Shinji & Ayato it was inwards, now what do you value more. The Reason for the screaming or if it zoomed inwards instead of out?

Also not to mention Gohan & Ayato actually killed the things they were fighting while Shinji went into sulk mode.

Westlo

August 16th, 2006, 05:36 AM

Actually, he did say half. I just saw the word "you", and failed to take "half" into account. I have to say, it might be nice to get some proper RahXephon discussion going again. When was the last time we actually had a decent thread about the characters, or anything other than how RahXephon is influenced by other anime?

I can't say it's a favourite of mine, but it's still a mecha anime that I like. I'd talk about it if anyone else was talking about it.

After scanning the Evangelion forums I'm thinking of doing a Go Megumi thread, anyone up for it :p

Roland

August 16th, 2006, 06:00 AM

Ark

August 16th, 2006, 06:04 AM

And I'm saying Rah IS multilayered. Prove me wrong.

It lacks layers.

I can't prove that it doesn't have something.

Levon

August 16th, 2006, 06:20 AM

I'm saying Rah isn't multi-layered. There are plenty of things to discuss about Eva (although they've all possibly been discussed now be someone) that aren't stupid like "Is Shinji gay or not". Though I don't actually think that is as stupid as it sounds considering there is evidence for and against it.

There plenty to discuss. Theres a great site with questions & answers on the complex issues.

Questions like:

"What is Ernst von Bahbem's purpose for creating the RahXephon?"

"Why was Bahbem helping Terra, an anti-Mu organization, if he's a Mulian himself?"

"Who really is Reika Mishima... or WHAT is she for that matter?"

"Why was Asahina connected to a Dolem? Why didn't Asahina know what was going on? Why did Asahina's Dolem show up like it did? Why did it seem like it was out of her control? Who exactly was the ghost like figure hunching over here while it was going on?"

"Why does Ayato destroy his painting? How come Itsuki did the exact same painting?"

"Why did Maya establish Tokyo Jupiter?"

"Asahina couldn't see that her blood was blue while inside Tokyo Jupiter because of the mind control from the Mu?"

Can you answer any without going to that site to find the answers?
Since you consider RahXephon so simple layered I assume.

Roland

August 16th, 2006, 09:39 AM

Ark

August 16th, 2006, 11:26 AM

Is there some problem with the forum?

I've tried several times to quote Levon's big post with all the questions and every time internet explorer freezes.I'm not having a problem quoting big posts in other forums.

Anyway assume I did quote it.

Apart from the Itsuki painting question I can answer all of them.I've seen the film though.

I never said the plot wasn't complicated. I said it wasn't a multi-layered show

Ark

August 16th, 2006, 11:29 AM

Erm, I can answer them quite easily WITHOUT going to any site. Multi-layer is something I connect with psychology or emotional complications or filosophy. And I think RahXephon does well, especially in the second departament. The intricate net of relationships betwen the characters is something not many shows can offer.

That's just complication (I don't mean in a negative sense) though.

That isn't depth.It has no philosophical or psychological aspects and the emotional element is aweful.

Roland

August 16th, 2006, 12:03 PM

I don't agree. The way characters interact in Xephon is way deeper and more complicated (and I DO mean multilayered when I say that) than ANY anime I've seen, including Eva. Yes, Eva's characters are more human, more realistic, but in a way their interaction with each other is WAY too sketchy. Everyone has MAJOR issues and eveyone is trying to be as rude with everyone else as possible. Ok, I simplified it alot, but still, in the character interaction departament RahXephon is way ahead of Eva. And way more delicate too, without beeing infantile.

Ark

August 16th, 2006, 12:33 PM

I don't agree. The way characters interact in Xephon is way deeper and more complicated (and I DO mean multilayered when I say that) than ANY anime I've seen, including Eva.

How?

Everyone has MAJOR issues

Their high school friends don't have issues and neither do the Techs or Kaji really.Plus you make it sound like they're anxy the whole way through. You don't even find out about Misato's problems till episode 12.

eveyone is trying to be as rude with everyone else as possible.

Well that's just factually untrue.

And way more delicate too, without beeing infantile.

How is it delicate?

Roland

August 16th, 2006, 02:01 PM

Sorry, if you haven't fealt it, I can't find a way to explain something as emotional.

Levon

August 16th, 2006, 02:12 PM

I felt more emotional for the characters in RahXephon because you actually care about them, unlike Evangelion where the characters can die badly & you wouldn't get any emotion out of me.

One of the most emotional scenes in RahXephon was between Ayato & Haruka near the end before Ayato goes in the RahXephon for the last time.

Another is Asahina's death.

Ark

August 16th, 2006, 02:24 PM

Sorry, if you haven't fealt it, I can't find a way to explain something as emotional.

That's what you call subjectivity.

Krueger

August 16th, 2006, 06:45 PM

What a ridiculous basis to judge something.I hate the first Matrix film and I think it gets an insane amount of praise but that has nothing to do with why I don't like it. Likewise I think Shrek gets way too much praise but I still find it mildly entertaining.
It's not the praise... it's the fans. Get it? It's like being a RedSox fan stuck in a room full of Yankee fans. Or the employee who has to tolerate everything his bossy manager likes... am I being clear? The Evangelion fans annoy me, and that only gets carried on everytime I see Evangelion.

And I love the Matrix and Shrek, but I haven't met any obnoxious fans for either film.

I was being slightly sarcastic (obviously I know RahXephon was supposed to have a love story) but I'd say Asuka and Shinji's relationship was more interesting, less absurd and less sexist than RahXephon. If you want I'll explain why.
Yes, please elaborate. I'd love to hear this one.

People generally call something a rip-off as excuse to why it's so good.
Ummmm... no. "Rip-off" is usually intended as an insult and that it could never measure up to the original. Something you're doing with every post you make in this board. If that's not your intention, then stop using the word.

The point is that RahXephon borrows too many things from Eva.I assume Big O was influenced by Eva as well but the elements it borrows from Eva you could count on one hand. That isn't the case with RahXephon.
We're sounding like a broken record by now, so I'll say it one last time. RahXephon is influenced by many other series other than Evangelion. Ok? It can only suggest that Evangelion is far from original itself. It's a groundbreaking series, but you're giving it too much credit.

It's Eva with three times as many main characters, humanoid martians controling the angels and Shinji falling in love with Misato. Sounds like a parody to me.
Wonderful. You just proved why I shouldn't even be bothered by anything you say. Don't bother replying.

Quiddity

August 16th, 2006, 08:22 PM

Mordecai said:
You know... Hellraiser's love story was amazing.

Roland said:
Yeah, wasn't it just...

The Julia - Frank thing was the best part of Hellraiser if you ask me, and the most original and scary. Lame love story indeed, but the best part of the franchise before they ruined it by making it into another slasher-type series...

Demon_Eva01

September 11th, 2006, 12:56 PM

I prefer Eva

Roland

September 13th, 2006, 01:20 AM

Now that's refreshing. After only 12 pages discusiion...

Leader Desslock

September 13th, 2006, 01:59 AM

...unlike Evangelion where the characters can die badly & you wouldn't get any emotion out of me.
It's off-topic. but you just summed up my reaction to Gundam. Rooting for interesting character deaths was the only enjoyment I got out of it after a while.

...I assume Big O was influenced by Eva as well but the elements it borrows from Eva you could count on one hand.
Of course, if you wanted to count the elements Big O borrows from Batman you'd need both hands, both feet and a couple friends.... ^_^

Since Big O has been brought up, I'll say that's my favorite of the three. It's more... how should I say it... tomatoey.

Ark

September 13th, 2006, 02:43 AM

Of course, if you wanted to count the elements Big O borrows from Batman you'd need both hands, both feet and a couple friends.... ^_^

Well yes the batman cartoon obviously. It borrowed much more from Blade Runner though as many animes have. The difference is I found the end product enjoyable which I didn't with RahXephon.

Levon

September 13th, 2006, 03:10 AM

It's off-topic. but you just summed up my reaction to Gundam. Rooting for interesting character deaths was the only enjoyment I got out of it after a while.

Gundam has nothing to do with what I said, yet you reply to my opinion of Evangelion's characters into your opinion of a reason you don't like Gundam. Its clear its because I'm a Gundam fan because I know you wouldn't say that otherwise. You seem to enjoy being disrespectful to me.

Leader Desslock

September 13th, 2006, 10:32 AM

Gundam has nothing to do with what I said, yet you reply to my opinion of Evangelion's characters into your opinion of a reason you don't like Gundam. Its clear its because I'm a Gundam fan because I know you wouldn't say that otherwise. You seem to enjoy being disrespectful to me.
No, I just meant it as an amusing footnote. I chuckled when I read your post because it actually did sum up my major mental block with Gundam: after a while I simply can't care about anyone or anything in any Gundam series I've seen.

The irony that you, the penultimate Gundam fan, would sum this up in a critique of another show was too much for me to pass up without a small comment, is all. No offense was intended. Maybe I'm the only one that sees the irony. Oh, well. My bad.

Well yes the batman cartoon obviously...
More the entire Batman legend, I'd say. Yes, visually, there's the similarity to Batman: TAS, but there's a lot more going on there. He's even got a butler and a Batcave. Granted, he makes a bit more noise when he LEAVES the BankCave, but Big O needs a bit more elbow room than Boy Wonder.

And yeah, it draws a bit from Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep. The cyber-existentialism. It borrows from Metropolis. It borrows from a lot of sources. Really, EVERYTHING draws a other sources, so it's not surprising.

Want me to count off the references to Shakespeare in Big O? They're all over the place. Of course, they weren't original to Shakespeare either, so should I cite HIS sources? Does it really matter?

I've really never understood why the Rah <-> Eva thing generates such a big "who copied what" debate specifically. I don't hear this complaint about other series. Did Tenshi Muyo copy Urusei Yatsura? Absolutely. But I never hear the Lum fans scream at the Tenshi fans about how their show is just a rip-off, nor the Tenshi fans defending their series by citing references common to both series. Big O got brought into the conversation. The worst "rip-off" reaction you get to Big O is a mild chuckle about the visual similarity to Batman:TAS. Once it's stated, the point gets dropped.

Why does the Rah <-> Eva thing generate such a disproportional amount of animosity? Would anyone who FEELS this animosity (on either side) care to elaborate? I really don't get it. Why is the issue of each series lack of originality on certain points anything more than an amusing chuckle?

Roland

September 14th, 2006, 11:32 PM

ElDusto

September 15th, 2006, 10:39 AM

Beats me. I'm a Rah fanboy, yet I loved Eva when I saw it and I'v never tried comparing both shows. For some people though it seems to be a blasphemy to create a really good show that so much resambles Evangelion...
The one and only time I ever made a connection between the two shows, was in the beginning, when it just seemed so similar, but then it branches off on it's own and it's one of the best animes I've ever watched. I think anytime someone makes a show that has teenagers piloting giant robots, you are going to get someone saying, "OMFGzorz! Th3y @r3 r1pp1ng 0ff EV@!!!111!!1!!!"

VSh

September 18th, 2006, 09:51 AM

Why does the Rah <-> Eva thing generate such a disproportional amount of animosity? Would anyone who FEELS this animosity (on either side) care to elaborate? I really don't get it. Why is the issue of each series lack of originality on certain points anything more than an amusing chuckle?
Probably, RahX fans feel so insulted by the idea... that I begin to think that EVA was about them.

Atriede

September 22nd, 2006, 01:55 PM

I have seen neither anime (a sin, I know), but judging from the opinion of both criticts and anime fans, I get the feeling EVA wins it, and some people have been know to say it is the greatest of all time. I personally, have not heard equal praise for Rahx.

Levon

September 22nd, 2006, 02:04 PM

That doesn't mean anything. DBZ has a huge fanbase with many fans calling it the best anime ever made. Does than mean its better than something else compared to DBZ that doesn't have the fame/hype/fanbase of something like Yu Yu Hakusho? Hell no.
Evangelion has a much larger & diehard fanbase, but that doesn't mean its better.

http://www.themanime.org/viewreview.php?id=335

"I can honestly say that it isn't often that I enjoy an anime series as much I enjoyed this one. This is one of those series that is powerful, intellectual, and beautiful at the same time. In conclusion, RahXephon is, in my humble opinion, one of the greatest anime ever, a sublime experience that is rivaled by very few existing titles."

http://www.animeacademy.com/finalrevdisplay.php?id=414
http://www.animeacademy.com/finalrevdisplay.php?id=366

Roland

September 23rd, 2006, 01:23 AM

Yep. "Let's eat ****. A hundred billion flies can't be wrong". That's not saying Eva is ****, of course, I just wanna point that the fact that many people like something, doesn't mean it's "the best ever" or something like that.

Westlo

September 23rd, 2006, 04:15 AM

I love how to most the popularity of something is meaningless unless it's something they like. For example you could have someone go....

"Virtua Fighter is a much better series than Tekken, Tekken only sells more because it's more casual friendly."

"ROH is so much better than that crappy mainstream WWE."

"So what if Eminem sold 10 million albums, Talib Kweli is way better, he's keeping it real"

And then they will say some crap like, Evangelion is better beause it has more fans.

Yeah you gotta love some people's logic....

Roland

September 23rd, 2006, 05:02 AM

I never said popularity is meaningless. It's just that way too often something popular is popular just because it's easy to understand, simple and fashionable. Dan Brown anyone? I'd always trust my tasтe over that of a mass of humanity I don't know. People tend not to think when they see something is popular. My favourite anime is not as popular as the BIG names, but I do believe it outshines half of them easily. So who's right? Me, or the crowds? No one, as usual :)

Atriede

September 23rd, 2006, 06:33 AM

Actualy a think I didn't explain myself very well so I'll give it another go.
Usually when something is popular but not very impressive you get a split fanbase i.e. those who love it for what it is, and those who critisise its flaws (enters, DBZ).
With EVA, not only does it appear as an anime appealing to a huge fanbase, but it also appears impressive. There are very few split opinions about EVA (minus that famous ending )
The reason it appears impressive are because both critics ( who know their stuff) and fans, give EVA outstanding praise. EVA appears to be the most talked about anime CONSISTENTLY recieving good reviews, and recieving fewer bad critism than any other anime I know of.
Therefore I am not saying EVA appears impressive simply because it is popular but also because, alot of people and criticts give valid, coherent points about why it is good, whilst very few people give it bad critisism

And we all know how people love to critisise-especialy critics :P . Therefore there seems to be a general consensus that EVA is exceedingly excellent.

Popularity doesn't always equal greatness,the spider man film grossed much more than Citizen Cane ever did, proving its general appeal and much greater popularity,yet Citizen Cane is GENERALY considered as the greatest film of all time, !). But evangelion has got both the huge appeal and universal recognition as the greatest.

Ark

September 23rd, 2006, 07:03 AM

I'd add that the people who say DBZ is the greatest anime ever are probably mostly below twenty or still living with their parents.

Westlo

September 23rd, 2006, 07:53 AM

EVA appears to be the most talked about anime CONSISTENTLY recieving good reviews, and recieving fewer bad critism than any other anime I know of.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaha, oh god brother if you beleive that I've got a bridge thats golden to sell to you.

Levon

September 23rd, 2006, 08:08 AM

Evangelion is hated & gets bashed all the time, there are tons of haters for it. And many consider it overrated because of all the hype of fans & the company calling it "the best anime ever made".

Its one of those anime where most ethier love it or hate it. Of course there are few like me that just think "like" it, not "love" or "hate".

Atriede

September 23rd, 2006, 10:40 AM

Evangelion is hated & gets bashed all the time, there are tons of haters for it. And many consider it overrated because of all the hype of fans & the company calling it "the best anime ever made".

.

Really I never got that impression when I checked it out. Whilst we're on the topic of greatest anime is cowboy behop also got a hate fanbase, what do people generaly think of it. That is one anime I have been highly advised to watch, they showed a bit on MTV once but it was all in jap with no subtitles so I could'nt enjoy it.

Levon

September 23rd, 2006, 10:43 AM

Where do you live? The only US channel to air Cowboy Bebop is Cartoon Network. MTV in America wouldn't air it in raw Japanese.

Cowboy Bebop does have its large share of haters, just like Evangelion.

Atriede

September 23rd, 2006, 11:03 AM

Saw it in Holland, the real land of freedom.

Levon

September 23rd, 2006, 11:23 AM

Just what is the point of saying "the real land of freedom"?

Anyway, both Cowboy Bebop & Evangelion have really huge fanbases but there are many fans that consider them overrated. They seem to be a magnet for newbies, especially Cowboy Bebop. Actually Cowboy Bebop & Evangelion were some of the first anime series I watched & I back then Cowboy Bebop was one of my favorites until I saw more anime & saw how weak the anime really was. I still enjoy Cowboy Bebop but it got old & theres not really a story. Its more style & action than anything else.

Westlo

September 23rd, 2006, 02:44 PM

I still don't know why people think Bebop's story is weak, is it one of the best? No far from it but because it's not linear like everything else it's considered crap. (I guess people like linear storytelling... look at Final Fantasy's 10 sucess...)

Really I never got that impression when I checked it out.

The reason is because just like UC Gundam if you dare to say Eva is not perfection you are suddenly surrounded by millions of fanboys who flame the **** out of you. Aren't you they guy who made the dbz sucks thread? Take the reaction of that thread and magnify it 10x and thats what uc gundam fanboys would do, magnify that by another 10 and thats eva.

Zeta Gundam and Evangelion while 2 of the best shows around, their fanbase is left... "lacking" at times. This board is pretty good in that regard it's mainly other forums where it applies.

Atriede

September 23rd, 2006, 04:17 PM

I am educated now Van.

Just what is the point of saying "the real land of freedom"?

Go to Holland and you'll find out.
ps, I'm not actually gonna tell ya where I live cause thats creepy. ^_^

Levon

September 23rd, 2006, 04:59 PM

Zeta Gundam and Evangelion while 2 of the best shows around, their fanbase is left... "lacking" at times. This board is pretty good in that regard it's mainly other forums where it applies.

I don't really goto other forums but its not like that here, all us Zeta fan's admit to its flaws & that its unoriginal but the story, characters & action are great.

Go to Holland and you'll find out.

I still don't understand what that has anything to do with what we were talking about-_-; But whatever.

Mr. sickVisionz

September 23rd, 2006, 06:57 PM

I haven't seen RahXephon all the way through yet (i'm at episode 13), but it does seem that Eva had more of a balance of action:pilot drama.

Eva is an action show with alot of pilot drama in it. Pretty much every episode consist of like a pilot drama A part, then an action filled B part. RahXephon is like all pilot drama. Alot of times episodes start off at the tail end of a fight and you feel like you missed a really cool battle. But then again, RahX isn't an action show, so it'd almost be a waste of time to show fights when you could be showing more pilot drama.

At first I hated RahX cuz everyone compared it to Eva. I came in to the first episode expecting massive fights like Eva, but was upset when I didn't get that. But as I watched it more it finally sank in that the two shows are like two totally different viewpoints on the "robot mech" genre. Now i'm really starting to enjoy it for what it is.

Elysial

July 23rd, 2007, 02:37 PM

Well, personally, I liked Eva better.

I mean, RahX was really good, and all that. I'd give it like, an 8/10 or something. Really good animation, I appreciated the fact that an anime with a music motif actually had fantastic music, the story was nice and interesting, and episode 19 was crazy good. One fatal flaw, though. The characters. They were flat, boring, and failed to connect to me on any emotional level whatsoever. I didn't really care about the love story, because it only came up in the last few episodes or so and felt kinda tacked on.

Eva had really good animation for it's time barring the last few episodes, music was pretty great, the story was somewhat vague, but to a degree that it still has people discussing and theorizing today about it's plot (check out the Eva Discussion part of EMF, lose your mind) and is complex and very interesting. Eva had something Rah did not. Characters. Characters in Eva were highly psychoanalysed, formed complex relationships with each other, with some excellently done development and a protagonist that still gets hate today for being perfectly human. Had a huge personal impact on me, whereas Rah didn't.

miyalovesneji

July 27th, 2007, 11:37 AM

Seen both through twice, and I gotta say Rahxephon, without a doubt.
I reckon Evangelion will always get more popularity though because it had such huge impact on release (one of the biggest anime of its decade, ne?) and Ayanami, Asuka and Shinji are practically as iconic as Bugs Bunny. Its hard to beat that.
For me, Xephon had a much better developed (and coherent) story, better character development, and stunning animation that Eva just lacked. The emotion also felt more 'real' for me, whereas Eva was a bit all over the place. The music....ah, okay, its a tie on the bgm, both stunningly atmospheric :) but Xephon again just tips the balance for me with 'Tune the rainbow' and 'garden of everything', two of the most beautiful songs ever! Evangelion also surely loses points for having one of the most annoying protagonists of all time. I usually empathise with characters who question their own self worth, but after 26 episodes of hearing him constantly b*tch, I would have happily wrung Shinji's neck myself.

Despite what everyone says though, isn't it a little wierd to compare them? Anyone who really understands both of them can see they're worlds apart-Xephon is truly an epic drama/love story while Eva is far more action/fighting aliens orientated. Sure, they both fit in the giant robot mecha genre, but then FMP and Azumanga both fit in the high school comedy genre and no-one compares them! Just enjoy em seperately for what they are ^___^

UrsusArctos

July 30th, 2007, 08:50 PM

Not saying anything against RahX, since I've seen next to nothing of it, but from what I've seen, it's a lot more surreal, and awfully artistic, in ways Eva just can't compare...of course, the animation quality has a lot to do with it. And I love 'hemisphere' (Although I don't think any less of 'A Cruel Angel's thesis').

But after seeing NGE(and very few of its influences), I couldn't help but wince at the 'drop of water/awakening' motif, 'winged figure' motif and other visual/character similarities...NGE's obviously been a big influence, although it'd be going way too far to say that RahX just ripped off NGE just like that.

But to all the criticisms of NGE...
(1) The Action/Angels orientation is just a cover for the real story. If you look closely from the first episode onwards, you can see NGE's deeper story hidden inside. The Angels themselves serve as a plot device in the same sense as the animals in classic stories like Aesop's fables- the monsters and bizarro beings hide reflections of our own character, and you can see that the pilots' plugsuits mirror Sachiel's design as a hint to what the Angels actually are.

(2)Shinji, Asuka, Rei, Gendo, et al, are exaggerated in one way or the other but their conflicts and problems are actually very, very human, and like it or not, such people really exist and their problems aren't exclusive to them, it could be anybody. People with pasts less black than Shinji or Asuka have very much the same problems and conflicts as them, and other much less troubled people do have the very same sense of denial, the same confusion about what to do, and so on. It just isnt' as severe, but it might be problematic.

I don't deny how confusing and messy NGE can be, and I've got nothing particular to say about RahX, but I do stand up for how good NGE is, no matter how badly executed people may find it. Being a Halo fan and understanding how Bungie rushed to get Halo 2 done from scratch in ten months, I know that rushing to complete something with a severe time, or in this case, budget, limit is actually a case of surprisingly good execution and not bad. Gainax really did what they could with their budget slashed, and it's thanks to their ingenuity that the series ended at all.

*Phew! I hope I made sense.*

Vir

July 31st, 2007, 01:20 PM

You all make sense, and it's fun to see how the opinions on the characters are so different.

Me, I don't know which I like better. But miyalovesneji raises an excellent point. With the "similarities" between the show being perhaps two references, both shows being in the same genre, and some outright fabrications (played out on the AnimeNation forums no less), and with so many other super robot shows out there, why was the "feud" so high volume in the West? Was it because it came from the same distributor, or was it simply the first show in this genre (teen-piloted super-robot mecha) to come along which was as good as this since Evangelion?

Brill

July 31st, 2007, 01:42 PM

I think most of the hyped controversy comes from the fact that they have similar character achetypes, similar story development along with a similar ending, plus couplef with the fact that they came out within years of each other-there is no way they couldnt be considered copycats. They were the first of a new subgenre of mech show that persists to this day.

As for which I like better it has to be Eva. I couldn't sympathize with Hayate like I could for Shinji. I'd watch Hayate-a normal kid- suddenly freak out and wonder why the hell is he losing his marbles. While the animation in Rah is by far superior I just liked the story, cast and style of Eva better.

Vir

July 31st, 2007, 06:18 PM

I couldn't sympathize with Hayate like I could for Shinji. I'd watch Hayate-a normal kid- suddenly freak out and wonder why the hell is he losing his marbles.

Watching Hayate the Combat Butler by any chance?

Eva parody in Hayate:
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/2721/hayate302vo1.jpg
(imageshack.us)

Tidusauron12

August 4th, 2007, 02:27 PM

About 5 years ago... I finished EVA. Then I went on to Youtube and watched RahX... about 5 months ago. I couldn't bring myself to watch episode 2. I only saw episode 1. It didn't seem like EVA at all to me. That was good, but... I just seemed... stale to me. I was actually put off by watching the first ep. I'll watch it some day...

Levon

August 4th, 2007, 02:35 PM

Magami No ER

August 4th, 2007, 02:37 PM

Eh, Sailor Moon says differently for me...XD
Although, I must say Rah gets much betetr after the first episode, which I too found stale. The ending wasn't my favorite unfortunatly, or, more like, the episodes leading up to it.

Tidusauron12

August 4th, 2007, 02:40 PM

Watching any anime episodes on YouTube would make them stale to anyone...

!

I beg to differ!

While I was in California last month, and I couldn't download fansubs... Youtube and Crunchyroll became my friend for watching fansubs... not to mention Naruto. I watched practically the entire series on Youtube (I started downloading when Shippuuden came out). Sure, the quality can be bad (especially at crunchyroll), but I thought the quality on Youtube was REALLY good for RahX. It's just that... the way it happened... The way the episode played out... guh.

I'll watch it eventually... probably not on Youtube, but I will. Then again, I like to watch longer series on Youtube and download the shorter usually... Maybe I should download RahX...

Levon

August 4th, 2007, 02:42 PM

Youtube is such crap to actually watch full episodes:lol: Episodes are split into 3-4 parts & quality is never good. :x :x :x :x

Tidusauron12

August 4th, 2007, 02:48 PM

Youtube is such crap to actually watch full episodes:lol: Episodes are split into 3-4 parts & quality is never good. :x :x :x :x

Yeah... so true. I got pissed when I was watching Bleach... trying to find my place amongst five 'part 2's of the same ep. That's why I went to crunchyroll (worse quality... but full ep). Back when I watched Naruto however, Youtube didn't have the 10 minute limit... so the Eps. were either full or in two parts. It wasn't hard to navigate my way through Naruto at all... and the quality was actually really good. But that was Naruto... so... it ain't no big deal.

Bleach had me reeling for more (I was in the SS arc) and I couldn't even find new eps on youtube... I got pissed. Again, CR fixed that... but now that I'm home, I'm downloading again. I watch ahead on TV-links though...

Westlo

August 30th, 2007, 08:52 AM

Was it because it came from the same distributor, or was it simply the first show in this genre (teen-piloted super-robot mecha) to come along which was as good as this since Evangelion?

Rah = Eva ripoff whining began after the first episode was fansubbed, one of the more drilled points during the first few eps was "lol it's set in the same year as eva lol!". Which of course got shut down as soon as they escaped Tokyo Jupiter.....

Had nothing to do with distributor, as for genre.. didn't really stop Brain Powered (Yep they accussed the guy who made most of the stuff to inspire Eva of ripping eva off), Betterman, Argento Soma, Nadesico, Dual (what part of parody do eva fans not understand!), Escaflowne (lol was announced first?) and Xenogears from being given the Ripoff tag at one point or another.

The ending of the South Park Episode "Simpsons did it" pretty much applies to the Ideon/Eva/RahXephon issue. Also just because something did it first doesn't make it better, I'll take Evangelion over Ideon any day of the week in terms of which show is better.

SPARTAN117CJL

December 1st, 2007, 05:17 PM

I Like EVA better, Even Just if its on the basis that it has something to say. A point to make, and I think a Rather Humanistic and truthful point to make.

Now, As for the Charachters of both shows.

I have no Idea, why anyone would say that the Charachters from RahXephon are more Likeable then NGE. I feel like Im watching Laguna Beach when im watching RahXephon, everyone is good looking, they're all happy, Normal People (Besides the Fact that they all work at TERRA) Theres no real problem with these Characters, nothing they really have to overcome. Well, actually they did have to overcome but nothing made me particulary interested in If they actually overcame it or not. I found most of the Characters Un-Intresting, Except for Qu'on, Isshiki and Mishima. Isshiki because he is Really one of the few Non-generic characters (Plus he's Obviously Insane, which makes him the only flawed characters of the series) He has a Napoleon Complex, Which results in a Huge ego. I like that Because I'd always been a Big fan of Napoleon I, Un-luckily for him, Alexander got bull-headed after losing Moscow. And also Qu'on and Mishima were cool For their mystic and Mysterious qualities. Plus they're hot.

Anyway, I really did love RahXephon, Mostly because of all the Indigenous American folklore and stuff.

Now as for the Characters in EVA, I found them all more like able. Why ? Because they're all human, Except for Rei, But i'll get to her later. Now, Im not talking about Human as in Homo-Sapien, Im talking about Human as people who are realistic, people that you'll find in AA or at your Shrinks Waiting room. People who have issue's. Take Shinji For example. This kid's life sucks, He watches his Mom Die when he's around 3 years old, which has to leave a terrible effect on his sub-conscious, His dad is a Sad Mockery of a Father, and literally is the prince. He's been abandoned, and thus he feels abandoned and un-wanted. He lives with his teacher, alone, no friends, Then all of a sudden he has to pilot a huge purple (Pride color ! Some one call Jeri Faldwell) Robot to save all of Humanity, Oh, that wont be too much pressure. Fast forwarding to episode 8, He maintains a life of Happy Normalcy (Besides being an EVA pilot) Now, when it gets to episode 16, things start to go down hill. Said Hill Covered in Booby traps, Bamboo stakes, and Human feces with Genghis Khan and 5000 Pissed of Mongols at the bottom of it. He Almost kills his friend (TY dad !) Kills His Other Best friend/ Possible lover, See's the girl he has feelings for have her mind rape, then He jerks off to him to her while she's in a comma, then he see's her killed by the MP Eva's. Not a pretty story. This is why i Hate when people call shinji an Emo/*****/French (J.K. I Am French, And i for one know their history) At first glance you would say 'God damned when a ****ing French emo Pussbag !' But his state is Justified by his experiences, He, Like everyone in the series is the sum of what he's been through. I like that, I have always believed that Your are what you are based on what you have gone through in life, That sort of thing appeals too me. So, Basically, the reason why Eva Characters are likeable is because they are all so terribly ****ed up.

P.S. Someone throw Megu a Bone, I mean for god's sake.....

Westlo

December 2nd, 2007, 05:39 AM

Man I beasted in this thread.

Vir

December 3rd, 2007, 07:02 AM

(...) RahXephon, everyone is good looking, they're all happy, Normal People (Besides the Fact that they all work at TERRA) Theres no real problem with these Characters, nothing they really have to overcome.
:blink: :lol: Hahaha, oh wow.

Well, actually they did have to overcome but nothing made me particulary interested in
Well that sounds like a better argument. I liked the scheeming and conflicts and personal issues.

the only flawed characters of the series)
Hm. The only "non-flawed" characters without issues from the very beginning I can think of of the regulars would be
- the reporter guy,
- the two guys in the control room (Gomi and Yomoda),
- Elvy's pilots
- and maybe Souichi.
the rest have issues.

Now as for the Characters in EVA, I found them all more likeable. Why ? Because they're all human, Except for Rei,
:angry:
She is not a doll.

But i'll get to her later. Now, Im not talking about Human as in Homo-Sapien, Im talking about Human as people who are realistic, people that you'll find in AA or at your Shrinks Waiting room.
I think you kind find Rei-like personalities out there.

This is why i Hate when people call shinji an Emo/*****/French (J.K. I Am French, And i for one know their history) At first glance you would say 'God damned when a ****ing French emo Pussbag !' But his state is Justified by his experiences,
Agreed for the most part. I think his actions are closer to what many 14 year old boys would do in that situation - but there would also be many hotblooded hero warriors. After all what we call children in their teens have fought in wars as soldiers before - and they are still being used as soldiers or cannon fodder in Africa and the Middle East.

P.S. Someone throw Megu a Bone, I mean for god's sake.....
I'd throw her a bone, if you know what I mean.

UrsusArctos

December 9th, 2007, 05:54 PM

Child soldiers/martyrs/terrorists are brainwashed and conscripted by adult ringleaders who either forcibly take them from their parents or who twist their minds around and make them join. It isn't heroism at all...it's SICK.

Shinji acts like a real person, and that's why people hate him so much. He's not the way people like to see themselves, but the way people are. We all like to be like Ayato, as a hero who can make his way through the world and triumph, saving the people he loves and living happily ever after with his significant other. We don't like being Shinji, because many of us are like him. We get upset, cowardly, frightened, and have problems with a whole lot of people, and that's because we're all human beings. I can relate to Shinji in particular. It takes much less than having your mom die and your dad dump you at four to make you like Shinji.

Shinji's actually very nice and it's amazing that he cares so much despite having his mom die and his dad dump him like trash. In the very first episode, he goes straight to help the injured Rei (Whose nurses leave as soon as she's brought in) after she falls off her stretcher, while most people were staring at what Eva-01 did in that scene. Even Kaji (A very manly man, by any standards) says that Shinji isn't weak to know what suffering is like.

The critical thing about Rei is not her robotic lack of emotional display, but the way she just doesn't care about herself and refusal to connect with people.

Vir

December 9th, 2007, 08:04 PM

Good points, but it's not just their situations that make Ayato and Shinji different. Ayato is also brainwashed by Maya - indeed Tokyo Jupiter was formed supposedly mainly to protect Ayato. Also the maturity difference between 14 and 17 is quite significant - at least as I remember it.

About child soldiers under 15, its certainly true that those who use them today truly are evil and sick men who use kidnapping etc. of children as young as 9 or 10, but I think that when you become about 14 or 16 years old (depending on your maturity) that you're capable of wanting to volunteer for fighting. International conventions say that children under 15 must not take part in hostilities, and some countries that have compulsory service for - say - 19 year olds allow volunteers at age 16 for example.

I just read a bit about this issue, and again I get a chance to roll my eyes at our focus, as a big fuss is made about a few UK soldiers who are a few months shy of 18 being sent to Iraq, while there are "liberation movements" with thousands children in them about 11, 12 and 13 years old who are given drugs and alcohol to fight, or young girls being used for sex.