Should games be trreated like anime?

[sfried]

With my other recent post, I've been beginning to question of the legitimacy of games being treated like respected localized anime. I for one, see that this has some benefits, but then there are some things that belong only in the animation real that should never trancend the boundaries of games, and likewise, vise versa.

1.Translation and localization will be alot more accurate if games were treated with such respect.
2.Localization costs would increase.
3.Delays in release of games.
4.(Hopefully) more accurate voice dubbing.
5.Even though games would simply clearly translate text bubbles, there might be arguments of how "pure" these text bubbles are. Soon honorifics will have to be left "as is".
6.If, heaven forbid, worse comes to worse, we WILL see big yellow subtitles underneath already translated text bubbles. What's worse, what they say won't even correspond.
7.Ending credits for each finished gameplay session, even when you're not done playing (it has been done before).
8.Fan service (of the dirty, none-gameplay kind) to the point of insanity and tastelessness.
9.The release of more dating sims.
10.The fact that they will be slightly priced higher than most of the other games (around $60).
11.Gameplay terminology becomes somewhat hard, because in sticking true you now use the Japanese terms instead of what would otherwise be translated English (or what any other language) terms.

I could really see some very good things if games were treated the same way, but do we really need it to be almost exactly like anime to be enjoyable? I mean, there are somethings that games could improve on, like localization and dubbing, but some things that will always remain feverent in gaming, like gameplay. That's why I Think game are indeed a different industry from films and animation. There is that third dimension of interaction which always has to be present.

[Mercenary]

I am sick of localization. I am even more sick of bad dubs, keep the original audio and have it subbed (most games have text anyway with voices). And for all that is good, keep in the original opening/closing songs.

Fanservice annoys me, keep it out.

[Arsinol]

I don't really care. There isn't a big demand for games to be treated like anime. So you shouldn't expect them to be. Companies can localize it all they want, they own the friggin rights, fans don't. I've also noticed that a decrease in the quality of Japanese games that we get. Most asian RPGs nowadays are cliche, dull, and boring.

[Lemina]

I think they definitely shouldn't. Playing import games as opposed to playing some domestic ones are alot funner in my opinion and I hate how they edit out frames of animation or blood in a game. It just changes how you the game as a whole if you look into those details. Of course this is alot more common in fighters.

[LinkOcarinaMan]

localizers (anime or videogames) have no respect for anything.

They have no respect for the original company that made the product and they have no respect for the original product itself.

Lets look at a recent fiasco here. Mastiff just took the crosses out of La Pucelle because they felt like it. They obviously had no respect for the original product.

The only localizing that should be done is an accurate translation of text. They shouldn't censor anything and they sure as hell shouldn't americanize it. Also if there is voice acting they should ALWAYS leave the japanese audio in. There is no point not to. You can give a game all the crappy dubs you want, but at least give the fans who appreciate the original product the option to turn the japanese audio track on.

[MightyDustLoop]

I love anime, but even I don't want the anime games here.

The localizers suck, and there's still a lot of bias in the US and Euro markets, but I do feel like games have a better shot here just being good. We love a lot of the good Japanese stuff that gets here but some of the better US stuff that goes their direction is pretty much DOA.

I just want bilingual games maintaining the closed caption subs. That'd appease me right there.

[Hokage Izlude]

I dont really care, I play video games for the fun of it, and I do find alot of anime games or anime-style games fun, but I'm not gonna bother complaining about the localization, I just wanna play it and have fun, thats what its there for.

I dont care if Mai's boob bounce in KOF 2000/2001 was taken out or the guns

I dont care if the blood and fatalities in Samurai Showdown are removed

I dont care if reilgious symbols in a Puchelle Tactics have completely vanished

I dont care if the game isnt even bi-lingual (Final Fantasy X)

I dont care if the game removes the original opening/ending music (DBZ Budokai)

This stuff doesnt add to the gameplay, they dont make the game that much more enjoyable at all, there just there to annoy the more purist fan. Games shouldnt be about having voice actors, and glossy openings/endings, and subtitles and all that crap that affects anime.

The video game industry and its fans should be nothing like its anime counterpart

[LinkOcarinaMan]

Fine Izlude

Nice to see you are happy with all the crap that gets shoveled your way.

True fans aren't

[Hokage Izlude]

What do you mean by that?

[Arsinol]

What do you mean by that?

He thinks you're not a true gamer because you'll settle for censored games.

[Hokage Izlude]

Since when has playing and enjoying a game ever been about censorship/localization changes? In the case of censorship, the companies make the rules, they bring a game from a foreign land over to another country, they gotta make it acceptable for its audiences so the parents dont *****.

Then in the case of localization, its all about making an local adaption that the westerns are going to understand, find appealing, but most important of all - play.

If ppl just pushed aside issues of censorship/localization and just played video games, things would be good. But in a world of bad parenting and cultural and language barriers, its hard to say

[Mercenary]

I don't mind censoring, I just hate when they take opening/closing songs out. If you need to change the opening song, do what Wild Arms 3 did. Make it in english, but still sound close to the original.

[Hokage Izlude]

I think games just need to be treated like they always has been, the ideals of anime could easily corrupt production unless done very wisely and carefully (like Disgaea). But not every game is gonna have that same luxary, I mean we got future Final Fantasy's and Namco's Tale's series to look forward to, and Square and Namco cant make a perfect video game dvd that is bi-lingual w/ english subtitles translated directly off the japanese track and keep all the japanese music and stuff, because honestly, that stuff will just turn away the gamer fan who doesnt have any interest in anime.

And let me tell you, I know a ton of gamers out there who do not watch anime or have any interest in it, but they'll play games that got the definite anime-influence, but they arent even gonna care or maybe even know its got anyting to do with anime.

Censorship on the other hand... eh...thats a political morale war all on its own. Its insane and will probably never end long as kids out there are trying to perform fatalites.

[Akihiko]

For Localization purposes, yes, video games should be treated like anime. It would make things alot more traditional.

[Ceraziefish]

I don't mind censoring, I just hate when they take opening/closing songs out. If you need to change the opening song, do what Wild Arms 3 did. Make it in english, but still sound close to the original.

There was also an option, buried deep in some menu, to turn on the original Japanese lyrics, which I thought was a nice touch.

And if you're going to have bad voice acting, at least have bad voice acting in Japanese, so I don't hear all the mispronounced words.

And of course, censoring stuff is dumb. But usually, I wouldn't have noticed had they kept it in (There are certain exceptions: Whoever removed the crosses from La Pucelle was on crack.). And usually, even when I know about it, I still don't care.

[sfried]

I don't mind censoring, I just hate when they take opening/closing songs out. If you need to change the opening song, do what Wild Arms 3 did. Make it in english, but still sound close to the original.

Wasn't that what they did with FF:CC?

[J Dude]

I know I'm reviving a dead topic here, but I think it would be better than just creating a new one, discussing the exact same thing. I really wish video games were treated the same way anime is. I know I'm not Japanese and I've played video games that were localized and etc, like Xenogears, Wild Arms 3, Final Fantasy X, etc etc, but I really think gaming companies should at least include the original Japanese voice acting on games that had Japanese voice acting on them in their Japanese release. I've had the pleasure of hearing a lot of the Japanese voice acting on Final Fantasy X and it sounds so much better than what I remember from the English version, especially Tidus. :x I'd love to play Tales of the Abyss too and oh how I plan to down the road, but it's such a shame that I have to put up with English voice overs when I've heard all the great seiyuu voicing in the Japanese version on the game like Takehito Koyasu (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=662), Yukana (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=5047), and Halko Momoi (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=5595). Now I know that not every gamer out there is also an anime fan and as much as someone like me who would much rather play a video game with its original audio intact. Just look at Castlevania Symphony of the Night, a.k.a. Dracula X Nocturne in the Moonlight. I've played both in English and Japanese and I'd much rather hear the awesomeness of Norio Wakamoto (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=954) as Dracula rather than whoever made him famous for:

"No! This cannot be...... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!"

That game had a great Japanese voice cast. Anyways.... to wrap up what could go on forever, I just wish gaming companies would think a little and not localize songs in video games, like the Wild Arms series for example. Wild Arms 2 had the vocals removed from the songs that contained vocals in the game, while I do admit that I like the instrumental versions of the Disc 1 and Disc 2 opening songs. While of course also at least including a Japanese audio track on the game. I doubt it's not hard to do either. Alas, as it would seem that I don't really have the time or patience to go out and learn Japanese on my own, it looks like I'll have to put up with playing localized games for what might be the rest of my life, which is such a shame.

[Gibb]

I wholeheartedly agree.

Even localizations with a decent dub job (FFX) had an infinitely better sounding original Japanese cast. With Blu-Ray and so forth in the future, I see no reason why game companies cannot leave the original voice track in the game. They can dub it all they want, as it obviously wont sell well without a dubbed track, but simply leaving the Japanese track and adding an option to change it can make so many thousands of fans happy.

I salute NISA for their dedication to pleasing the fans, and having options for Japanese dialog in their games, even as early as Rhapsody for the PS1.

[tenshi_a]

Yeah... gamers are treated particularly badly, compared with anime fans... it's so backwards - as though we were still in about 1995, in anime-industry terms. I actually refused to play the UK version of Makai Kingdom (Nippon Ichi's "Phantom Kingdom") because it's dub-only for no reason, whereas the US version is dual audio. (I adore Koyasu Takehito and can't abide Crispin Freeman).

I've actually bought some raw Japanese RPGs for PS2 after playing them in English, just for the improved cast...

Oh and Wakamoto Norio is just as awesome as Dracula as you'd expect in that Akumajo Dracula game. ^_^ So-intimidating-and-so-cool! I got the game in Japanese because at the time you could still buy brand-new copies of the Japanese version of the game for about £15 (including shipping) whereas 2nd hand copies of the game in English cost about £70...

[Gibb]

Funny side story: When I was in Japan I noticed a used copy of Genso Suikoden III for about $12. I grabbed it all excitely, as it's one of my all time favorite games.

When I got back from Japan I tried the game out to realize it never had Japanese voice acting, and neither did the US version. So essentially I bought the exact same game I have in America, only not translated... :P. Whoops.

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

I did not want to vote,but in the end..i did.Games in the USA,and games in Japan are very different.They should remain seperate,but in certain cases,games from both sides can be enjoyed by all.Its hard to sum this up in a few words.

[sfried]

I'd love to play Tales of the Abyss too and oh how I plan to down the road, but it's such a shame that I have to put up with English voice overs when I've heard all the great seiyuu voicing in the Japanese version on the game like Takehito Koyasu (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=662), Yukana (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=5047), and Halko Momoi (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=5595).
If I'm not mistaken, Tales of the Abyss English voice acting was superb, especially whoever did the voice of Jade...

Perhaps you were bred on anime first before videogames and not the reverse like us?

[J Dude]

If I'm not mistaken, Tales of the Abyss English voice acting was superb, especially whoever did the voice of Jade...

Perhaps you were bred on anime first before videogames and not the reverse like us?

Actually I've been a video gamer since I was five years old and got my first NES with Super Mario Bros. and Duck Hunt. I didn't get into anime until 2001, but I did end up taking a break from games during 2004-2006, but now I'm back into video games and stronger than ever. While I haven't really heard the English voice acting in Tales of the Abyss, I'll just take your word for it that perhaps the voice acting is well done. However, it's not the original Japanese voice acting, which is what I want to hear, no matter how well done said dub is. It's the same for me with anime. No matter how good a dub may be or sound, I still prefer watching whatever show in it's original language.

[sfried]

Actually I've been a video gamer since I was five years old and got my first NES with Super Mario Bros. and Duck Hunt. I didn't get into anime until 2001, but I did end up taking a break from games during 2004-2006, but now I'm back into video games and stronger than ever. While I haven't really heard the English voice acting in Tales of the Abyss, I'll just take your word for it that perhaps the voice acting is well done. However, it's not the original Japanese voice acting, which is what I want to hear, no matter how well done said dub is. It's the same for me with anime. No matter how good a dub may be or sound, I still prefer watching whatever show in it's original language.

But unlike most anime, most games produced nowdays (especially the recent Tales games) are made with foreign audiences in mind. And just look at (or listen to) the Metal Gear Solid series...What would Snake be like without David Hater?

[J Dude]

But unlike most anime, most games produced nowdays (especially the recent Tales games) are made with foreign audiences in mind. And just look at (or listen to) the Metal Gear Solid series...What would Snake be like without David Hater?

Well.... I don't really know what to say since I wouldn't have a clue about whether or not the guys in the video gaming industry really are producing them with foreign audiences in mind and I'm not sure where you got that idea either to be honest. What does that have to do with this again? I've heard a bit of the Metal Gear Solid English voices and I didn't think they were bad. I can play a game that's been dubbed into English and has replaced the original Japanese voice overs and still enjoy it, but I would enjoy the game a lot more with playing it with its original Japanese voice cast intact if it has one. I know that Resident Evil (Biohazard) and Devil May Cry all use the same English voice overs even in the Japanese versions, but I think the voices in those are great, not counting the earlier Resident Evil games, where the voices are suppossed to be corny, but they give me a good laugh. I really liked the voice acting in Resident Evil 4 to be honest.

[Ikari Warrior]

On the "fan" end, I'd say video games are already treated like anime. You have sub vs. dub, just like you have Sony vs. MS vs. Nintendo. You have Kenshin vs. Inuyasha, just like you have Dante vs. Kratos.

People take their favorite things (anime or video games) and then sub-divide it into less-enjoyable niches, and then troll about message boards and such.

On the fan end, I think games should be treated in the same fashion as anime should be (but isn't) and that is to simply enjoy it, to hell with anyone else's criticism.

[Noi]

On the "fan" end, I'd say video games are already treated like anime. You have sub vs. dub, just like you have Sony vs. MS vs. Nintendo. You have Kenshin vs. Inuyasha, just like you have Dante vs. Kratos.

People take their favorite things (anime or video games) and then sub-divide it into less-enjoyable niches, and then troll about message boards and such.


Almost anything that has at least two individuals having a disagreement with will be treated like anime. It seems to me that video game discussions are less mature than anime discussion, perhaps due to the fact that gaming is more mainstream than anime (which usually attracts the worse in people).

As for answering the question, I personally feel that video games should be faithfully translated, not localized. I really do not see any point for the various changes made in the Mario games, esp. the names of the characters. There is no point changing Mario's arch-villain from "Koopa" (which was used in the 1989-91 DiC cartoons) to "Bowser" in the English version, or what Square-Enix did to the character "Kuckle" by re-naming him "Angelo" in "Dragon Quest VIII."

[tenshi_a]

Almost anything that has at least two individuals having a disagreement with will be treated like anime. It seems to me that video game discussions are less mature than anime discussion, perhaps due to the fact that gaming is more mainstream than anime (which usually attracts the worse in people).
Now *that's* trolling. Dismissing all gamer debate like that.

Particularly when folks like J Dude and I, playing import games for the seiyuu who are in them, then disappointed by the dub-only localisations when they finally get a translated version. That's... really not mainstream behaviour. And it's also a complaint that games are being done for the mainstream, when there's this undercurrent of people (who cross over with anime fandom) who want Japanese voices in their games. Now, those people are being catered for by anime DVDs, but not in gaming, in general.

The non-mainstream genres of *visual novels* (see the US publisher "Hirameki International"'s stuff, or Himeyasoft's "Eve Burst Error" as examples), will give you english text and Japanese voices as the only option available. That's the same with most hentai games localised to the US, too. That's the norm for those genres, and for some people, that is a perfect setup. It's what we'd like to see for RPGs, at least.

Perhaps up to now it's been down to the limitations of the actual games; they've been made to only hold one audio track, being made without localisation in mind. If the future is going to emphasise the importance of localisation, each game should be made with the ability to hold many languages. Not just for us who want to hear Japanese but read English, but for the mainland Europeans who are stuck with English rather than their own language, or the rest-of-Asia who are stuck with Japanese rather than their own language. Each language optional, just adding more optional languages as the game gets localised for each additional territory. There'll be room; this new storage media gives plenty of room for something like audio... or they could add languages via downloads for an extra $5 or something. Which is something they love doing on all the current consoles.

So if a game originates in Japan, it's released in Japanese first. Then it can move to USA and they can add English and Spanish or whatever, then go to Canada and they'll add French too, then come to Europe and they can add Italian, German, Swedish, Norwegian, etc...

Or if a game originates in France, it comes out in French, then add the languages for English, German, Italian ... all the way round the world... and eventually end up with the ability to play the game in Japan in French as the original language, with Japanese text. Mix and match!

I think there might be a market for it. I know there exist fansubs of old BBC shows in original English language with hard-subbed Japanese subtitles, so the idea works in all language directions.

[MightyDustLoop]

My take on the whole thing is including the original Japanese track along with a revised one would increase production expense. There's a lot of pretty cult rpgs that do and don't make it here to North America, but start throwing costs like that in as though they are necessary, and we'd likely never see games like the Tales franchise and such.

[tenshi_a]

My take on the whole thing is including the original Japanese track along with a revised one would increase production expense.
Please explain why.

[MightyDustLoop]

Please explain why.

The voice actors will probably receive some cut, or the company who hired the voice actors will take that extra cut and give the actors absolutely nothing (sucks to work in Japan sometimes), but there will be extra cash involved. Faithfully translating the Japanese track with honorifics and such is extra dough. Subtitles will have to be added manually for any dialogue that is not currently receiving subtitles. And if the last two reqs are not met, there would be more complaints than if they never started on the whole bilingual concept.

Give anime fans an inch and they want a mile. I still love the media, but damn, the fans are overbearing sometimes. They either steal it, or they drop dough but insist everything be perfect BECAUSE they're not stealing it. Never does the whole "doing the right thing" aspect cross their minds.

[aoishonen7]

When it comes to censorship yeah I do wish that they would treat games like Anime (Not like what 4kids does to anime hell no!). Honestly I don't belive in censorship it's a futile practice (Because of idotic & iresopnsible parents). Video game companies are not meant to raise children. So I would love to see more video games brought over to the U.S. uncensored. But since it's not a perfect world it's not gonna happen. Anytime soon at least.

[Jon]

I think games are fine as is, though the majority of my games aren't RPGs (I own a couple of the PSX Final Fantasies, along with my one of favorite RPG being Golden Sun).

Though the only game I really, really wished had an option for Japanese voices would have to be Baten Kaitos for the GC. It was a great game, you could even turn off the horrible voice actors, but it was kind of dull without someone talking.

[tenshi_a]

The voice actors will probably receive some cut, or the company who hired the voice actors will take that extra cut and give the actors absolutely nothing (sucks to work in Japan sometimes), but there will be extra cash involved. Faithfully translating the Japanese track with honorifics and such is extra dough. Subtitles will have to be added manually for any dialogue that is not currently receiving subtitles. And if the last two reqs are not met, there would be more complaints than if they never started on the whole bilingual concept.

Give anime fans an inch and they want a mile. I still love the media, but damn, the fans are overbearing sometimes. They either steal it, or they drop dough but insist everything be perfect BECAUSE they're not stealing it. Never does the whole "doing the right thing" aspect cross their minds.

Hmm, looks like you've got an idea of *a group of people* in your head, and you hate them so much you think *any situation* whereby *they get something good* is an automatic *lose* situation. So you've made up most of your theory based on that. Shame really, since doing so gets in the way of good logical thinking...

When it comes to licensing agreements, each contract is unique, so there's no way you can generalise and say *this will be more expensive in each case*. Perhaps there isn't an option to buy the game with a reduced price for having parts removed. "You can release the next game in your country for $500000, but it's only $450000 if we manually remove the voice track first!" seems an unlikely negotiation, but you're right, it may occur. But as standard, for every game?

Regarding subtitles... games ought to be subtitled anyway, to provide accessibility to deaf people. It seems that most good games come with subtitles for all cutscenes nowadays, if only for this reason.

Regarding quality of translation, and whining gamers... everyone knows the level of translation of games has always been poor. It's become traditional. From the first days we saw the mysterious "1-up" and the phrase "GAME OVER", gamers have been expecting poor English as the norm. People are happy with the dialogue in Taito games (e.g. Puzzle Bobble) making *no sense whatsoever*. It's ok. Zerowing wouldn't have a cult following if the words "All your base are belong to us" didn't appear.

Ok, the quality of translation in games has come a long way since then, and the level of expectation has risen, but... personally, I'd just rather have the option to listen to some of my favourite seiyuu in a game, even if the accompanying text was Hong Kong Bootleg quality... some people might complain about petty things like honorifics, but you'd just say "hey, at least this isn't dubbed! you can hear the honorifics yourself!" to them, and it ought to be enough...

[J Dude]

I'd just rather have the option to listen to some of my favourite seiyuu in a game, even if the accompanying text was Hong Kong Bootleg quality... some people might complain about petty things like honorifics, but you'd just say "hey, at least this isn't dubbed! you can hear the honorifics yourself!" to them, and it ought to be enough...

I totally agree with you.

[sfried]

Regarding subtitles... games ought to be subtitled anyway, to provide accessibility to deaf people. It seems that most good games come with subtitles for all cutscenes nowadays, if only for this reason.
The problem with subtitles is, if the dialogue occurse in-game, then big, fugly subtitles can impede with the gameplay (see Radian Silvergun as an example). I agree with you that there should be consideration for deaf people, but I think text boxes would be a better idea than subtitles (fits within the gaming realm, too)...Unless you can make the subtitles translucent, unlike those big, fugly yellow DVD ones.

Overall, unless subtitles are overlayed in neat areas such as black borders such as in MGS, or they fae in and out a la Ninja Gaiden for XBOX, then it can be a nuance.

(Besides, some people just need to give English VAs some slack. Otherwise, where would've all those memorable lines come from?)

[grgspunk]

I definitely agree that games should be treated the same way as anime is. Heck, I wouldn't even mind if videogaming was as niche as anime either, as unrealistic as that sounds. That way, companies who release video games would be forced to listen to their fans or instantly lose sales.

If you want to see an example of massive editing and censorship in a game's localization process, look no further than a flight shooting game known as Ace Combat 3: Electrosphere, released in 2000.

The Japanese version had 52 missions, a full-fledged storyline with cutscenes between missions, numerous anime-style characters with lots of voice acting and a branched story structure with 5 endings.

The English version of it only had 36 of the 52 missions, hardly any cutscenes, no characters, no voice acting, a severly streamlined story (aka barebones), only one ending, and a few flyable aircraft short of it's Japanese counterpart.

Now THAT is one hell of a bastardization of a perfectly good game.



Throughout the years, we've had to deal with the numerous changes in script, names, plots, content, etc. Thankfully, I'd say we've improved a lot even over the past 2 years (soon after Mastiff censored La Pucelle), as I've seen more and more games featuring dual voice options accompanied with better dubs, content that we would never expect in a stateside release (loli themes in Rule of Rose, anyone?), retaining of original music and heck, even reinserted content that was taken out of, or edited in their Japanese counterparts (see Yggdra Union and translated H-games). A lot of this has to do with emerging companies like Atlus and NIS America, as well as other game companies who actually listen to fans, all of whom have gained my utmost respect.

[tenshi_a]

It's a bit annoying with La Pucelle... which I've been playing this weekend... I bought the NTSC-USA version because at the time I knew that none of the Nippon Ichi games were coming out here in Europe with Japanese language (they were all dub-only all the way up to Disgaea 2) (well actually Atelier Iris as a NISA game and is dual language)... and the European version is not-stupidly-edited and has some bonus material (an extra dungeon, or something) added... but is dub-only.

So I'm playing the American version. It lets me hear Hiyama Nobuyuki being stupidly heroic, and Tamura Yukari being stupendously cute. Plus, I tried the dub and the characters all *felt wrong* from the start.

So I'm intentionally playing the edited version.

To me, it's somehow the most enjoyable option. That probably sounds idiotic.

Rule Of Rose was banned before release here in Europe. Incidentally one of the few games that always had English language from the start. It was in English in Asia.

Also, Sony stomp on any company that wants to sell PSP/PS3 games and consoles to Europe from outside of Europe. This is so that prices can be kept artificially high. So getting the original Japanese/Asian-version of games is becoming difficult for a person who wants that version. I sometimes think they'd far rather we download pirated versions than buy their products! I'd say it sucks to be a gamer here, if it weren't for the fact I can import everything else pretty easily, and we get a lot more Simple 2000 games released here than in the US and those games are crappy-but-fun! (plus they're so cheap no-one bothers with English language dubbing!)

[ryushe]

J Dude I absolutely agree with everything you said, But I thought I just had to quote this...

I just wish gaming companies would think a little and not localize songs in video games, like the Wild Arms series for example. Wild Arms 2 had the vocals removed from the songs that contained vocals in the game, while I do admit that I like the instrumental versions of the Disc 1 and Disc 2 opening songs. While of course also at least including a Japanese audio track on the game. I doubt it's not hard to do either.
This especially goes for the "Tales of" series. ToA "Karma" was a fantastic song and even though I particularly like the instrumental version at the beginning of the game, I still wish they included it. It's like game companies are afraid of Japaneses in their games.

[J Dude]

J Dude I absolutely agree with everything you said, But I thought I just had to quote this...


This especially goes for the "Tales of" series. ToA "Karma" was a fantastic song and even though I particularly like the instrumental version at the beginning of the game, I still wish they included it. It's like game companies are afraid of Japaneses in their games.

I also agree with that. I love the Tales of the Abyss OP. I still like the instrumental version, but not as much as the original, which would be nice if they had left it untouched. It's always a good thing in my opinion when a company doesn't bother to dub a RPG I like. :lol: Breath of Fire III and Legend of Legaia for example. They all had the Japanese voices intact and BoFIII even had the vocal song Pure Again left untouched in the end credits on the domestic release.

[sfried]

Throughout the years, we've had to deal with the numerous changes in script, names, plots, content, etc. Thankfully, I'd say we've improved a lot even over the past 2 years (soon after Mastiff censored La Pucelle), as I've seen more and more games featuring dual voice options accompanied with better dubs, content that we would never expect in a stateside release (loli themes in Rule of Rose, anyone?), retaining of original music and heck, even reinserted content that was taken out of, or edited in their Japanese counterparts (see Yggdra Union and translated H-games). A lot of this has to do with emerging companies like Atlus and NIS America, as well as other game companies who actually listen to fans, all of whom have gained my utmost respect.

Which is why I'm wondering: Wouldn't the industry be better off having anime licensed to Atlus? In fact, wouldn't the industry be better of having shows be licensed by game companies instead? We all know ADV is sort of like Namco Hometek in that only the higher profile titles get royal treatment, so why not let Namco Hometek deal with localization instead of ADV? And Geneon is pretty much like Capcom...

[grgspunk]

As far as Atlus and NISA is concerned, they would be ideal for localizing anime in region 1, as they have excellent track records here in the United States.

However, after how they raped the English installments of Ace Combat 3 and Xenosaga 3, THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD EVER TRUST NAMCO HOMETEK WITH THE REGION 1 ANIME INDUSTRY. I wouldn't trust Capcom either; they do not listen to or appeal to fans (otherwise they would have released Megaman 9 a long time ago), so they are NOTHING like Geneon.


I'd much rather have small game companies license anime working alongside existing anime licensors as opposed to trusting the whole industry to large game companies, since they tend to listen to fans more often. There's too much editing risks involved with larger game companies as they tend to be obsessed with making their products appeal to the mainstream market.


As far as Sony is concerned, Maddox says it best.

http://maddox.xmission.com

[Tom Servo]

Naturally all game content should be retained, if you were watching a movie and discovered that a scene had been removed simply because it featured a shot of say... the world trade centre, you'd be annoyed.

I'd like to see the following done with both Japanese games and anime:
Translate the talky talky into text and sub the game/anime, keeping the original voiceacting, and release it - this is for the hardcore gamers who want their games/anime straight away and without all the bells and whistles later added.
Next, go over the text and fill in any gaps not covered well by the language barrier, do the dub and add all the fancypants stuff you like - this would be the main release for western audiences still.

[Gibb]

I'd like to see the following done with both Japanese games and anime:
Translate the talky talky into text and sub the game/anime, keeping the original voiceacting, and release it - this is for the hardcore gamers who want their games/anime straight away and without all the bells and whistles later added.
Next, go over the text and fill in any gaps not covered well by the language barrier, do the dub and add all the fancypants stuff you like - this would be the main release for western audiences still.

That would be the best of both worlds, literally. I'm not sure how the process of localizing a game goes, but I doubt most companies would take the time to write 2 sets of scripts for the game, an accurate translation version, and a more fitting to a US audience script. However, if they actually start with an accurate translation before conforming it into a more mainstream version, then it should be easy enough to put both versions in the game. Options are heavenly.

[DazzleKitty]

Yes, because I'd be so happy to have more dating sims.

[sfried]

...but I doubt most companies would take the time to write 2 sets of scripts for the game, an accurate translation version, and a more fitting to a US audience script.

This is the problem for people who take the term "Western" to mean only American... *rants about the European market and how they managed to have Snatcher and Terraenigma translated properly without needing to water it down to the lowest common denominater i.e. casual American audiences*

Let's face it. It would be better if most games and anime were translated at the hands of Atlus than, say, Funimation. Besides, as grgspunk mentioned, some games have been censored in Japan could be uncesored back here or elsewhere. I hear Capcom games like Resident Evil 4 and God Hand had their violence toned down when brought back to their homeland (and in certain parts of the world like Germany).

[J Dude]

I hear Capcom games like Resident Evil 4 and God Hand had their violence toned down when brought back to their homeland (and in certain parts of the world like Germany).

In Resident Evil 4, there is a lady impaled to a wall with a pitchfork through her face. However that was removed from Biohazard 4 in Japan. In Resident Evil 4, Leon can also get decapitated via chainsaws and they actually show him being decapitated and his head falling to the ground from what I remember. That was also removed in Biohazard 4.

[Len]

My copy of Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was treated much like an Anime. You could turn on subtitles and change languages and turn off subtitles.. Honestly I think they are doing it to more games now. Also, my copy of Spirit Caller GX for the DS turns into the english equivilant when I put my settings on my DS to english, and vice versa. It's quite neat.

[tenshi_a]

Oh and of course there's the best thing ever from Capcom for their DS Gyakuten Saiban / Phoenix Wright games... the Japanese (region free) cart comes with English text selectable! :w00t:

I don't expect other games/companies to do the same, but... it truly is the greatest thing. And not just because the games come out in Japan years before here in the UK and cost only 2/3 of the price. But that's also good.

[grgspunk]

Let's face it. It would be better if most games and anime were translated at the hands of Atlus than, say, Funimation.

Atlus, yes, it probably would do a better job. But don't think that every gaming company is ideal for the job. I specifically said small gaming companies. Funimation, though not as good as Atlus, would do a far better job than a company like, say, Electronic Arts. *shrugs*

[Hajime Saitou]

Electronic Arts. *shrugs*

Please don't even joke about that :lol:.

And I would like to second the notion that Atlus and NISA are doing a great service to gamers who want games to be as close as possible to the source.

[J Dude]

I talked about it earlier in this thread, but I must say that even with the dubbing on Tales of the Abyss, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. Forgetting about the fact that it's not the Japanese voice acting, it's easy on the ears at least. Don't get me wrong though. If I had my way, I'd be playing the Japanese version of the game if I knew Japanese, just so I could hear the voices. Not to mention it seems there are no voice overs in the skits on the domestic release, which is kinda lame. If this were my perfect world though, all video games would be released 100% unedited from their original Japanese counterparts minus being translated faithfully into English, and this doesn't mean removing Japanese vocals and voice overs and replacing them with English vocals and voice overs only. It's not that hard to just leave the Japanese audio and voice track for those who want it.

[tenshi_a]

BTW this might interest you - there's a fan-made Xenogears patch available now; you take your copy of the USA release of the PS1 game, apply the patch, and it makes a version of the game with Japanese voices, original controls and fixes some other stuff too. Though I guess you can only play what you've made on a PS1 that can play backups or a PS1 emulator...

[J Dude]

BTW this might interest you - there's a fan-made Xenogears patch available now; you take your copy of the USA release of the PS1 game, apply the patch, and it makes a version of the game with Japanese voices, original controls and fixes some other stuff too. Though I guess you can only play what you've made on a PS1 that can play backups or a PS1 emulator...

That sounds very nice, but I remember the last time I tried to play Xenogears on a PS1 emulator, and it wasn't a very fun experience. Even with the crappy dubbing, I still love the game. I haven't played it in years, but it's one of the best RPGs I've played. If I ever play it again, I'd rather just play it on my PS2 with my old discs I have of it and be able to just lay back in my bed while I play.

[Makunouchi]

So, what do you guys think about Phoenix Wright's localization?

I personally thought it was great.