The NGE Fan-Geeks Commentary Project [Archive] - Page 5

Reichu

May 5th, 2006, 08:32 AM

Damn poll. What a horrible idea.

Right this moment I'm trying to "water the plant" a little (AchtungAffen, this is all your fault!) and throw together a very straightforward update "just to let people know I still care", adding some Geektionary entries, LuigiHann's Clue, and a few things that I've been selfishly hoarding on my HD (or just left idling). (Ooo, and e-mailing back my poor aide Mr. Tines, too.) Then, of course, comes suffering through the rest of NGE2, and seeing where things go from there... I hope.

Just wanted some thoughts on Geektionary entries we need the most. Upgrades for ANF and EMF, obviously. Apostle, Duel of the Seeds, MPB (Metaphysical Biology), FAR (First Ancestral Race), Super Robot Wars (what happened to Sharp-kun?), and the "Seed of Life" version of SoL are ones that come immediately to mind as "might be good ideas". What about "THAT BOARD"/a-l-s.com, side dish, and some of the other wonky Reichu-ben, like Bridge Entity? Is there any other geek terminology that's been concocted for theories and used by, say, at least three other people without prompting by the creator? (The "rule of three" is usually a sign of "permeating into the common consciousness".)

Also, possible ones to include for reasons of recent cultural infamy: Revelations Incident, Akira, Femme-Kaworu. However, if these were to be included, I wouldn't dare write them myself; something from a "neutralistic party" would be required.

Gotta fly. Gratuitously unedited post. Let me know your thoughts.

LuigiHann

May 5th, 2006, 05:02 PM

I'd like to see "fruit of life" and "fruit of wisdom" added to the 'tionary as well.
And if I think of it I'll write up a paragraph or two for my Clue bit tonight.

Reichu

May 5th, 2006, 05:40 PM

I'd like to see "fruit of life" and "fruit of wisdom" added to the 'tionary as well.

Those are in the acronym table at the top, but those are the sorts of things that would go into a lexicon for terminology from the show. (There's some stuff in the Geektionary now that will be eventually moved.) That would obviously be quite useful as a general reference, given the recurring confusion over just WTF certain terms actually denote (or, at least, what they DON'T), but that needs to be put off until I get some annoying crap done and the truly collaborative part opens again...

The Geektionary is mostly for geek-culture, like short-hand and fabricated terminology, (in)famous or noteworthy figures in the gaijin arena, and... I dunno. There's SOME kind of logic to it. The Nihongo will get siphoned off onto a page specifically for that sort of thing sometime -- though I still have no idea what it should end up being called. I'm going to need a title by the time NGE2 goes onto the site and the real fun can FINALLY begin. (groans)

Mmmkay, back to work...

Reichu

May 6th, 2006, 06:46 AM

Boy, no other Geektionary comments so far? "You people disappoint me."

Intentional exaggeration, but I do want to emphasize the bit about wanting feedback on what to add and what not to add. And especially if the three bits of Reichu-related notoriety should be added, someone needs to volunteer to write them...

Added a little news header announcing the torrent and the addition of, yes, more supplemental images. Mostly public links for things I've used in forum stuff lately. Captioned & Doctored Images got moved to omake (it felt like a good idea at the time), and I wrote up little blurbs about most of my own "pieces" due to their oftentimes mysterious nature. Or just for the hell of it. Or because RyoTD requested it a while back. I dunno.

But, crap. "This is your brain" is missing! Argh.

Also, people should let me know if any of the "capdoc" images are so blatantly unfunny/unamusing that they should be banned to my HD. It's hard to tell from my POV, since I (well, mostly I) only ever make those images because I extract some degree of insidious delight from the process.

Gotta fly... Work will resume later today.

Mr. Tines

May 6th, 2006, 07:07 AM

Boy, no other Geektionary comments so far? "You people disappoint me."

"I'm thinking. Give me time, give me time..."

I've been slacking (aka otherwise occupied by what is laughingly called "Real Life"). I have June05, and am in the process of retrofitting the navbar to previous archives. Maybe progress this month. :lol:

I might try my hand at the 3 notorious entries.

As for the capdoc images - I find the twisted sense of humour appeals to me, and that they are worth judicious quotation in the right circumstances.

HeWhoPostsStuff

May 6th, 2006, 08:34 AM

Boy, no other Geektionary comments so far? "You people disappoint me."
Did I ever suggest that "LTP" (Literal Translation project) be added in there? It's referred to a few times in the main commentary pages, and perhaps some newcomers might not know what it is...

Reichu

May 11th, 2006, 06:57 PM

Did I ever suggest that "LTP" (Literal Translation project) be added in there? It's referred to a few times in the main commentary pages, and perhaps some newcomers might not know what it is...

Alright, on the list.

Almost done throwing the omake stuffs together. One thing I wanted to get up were the subtitle transcripts I have lying around, but I did notice that about ... five are in an anamolous format. It would be nice if they were all fixed before I put them up. Reformatting can be easily doled out to pawns, so if you would like to put some sacrifice in, give me a buzz...

Is the near-dead* nature of the project responsible for the lack of input on the sadly-needed Geektionary update? Well... I guess I'll have to make do...

:goes back to work:

* I prefer to think of it as being cast in carbonite. Reversibly. (More or less.)

AchtungAffen

May 11th, 2006, 08:04 PM

I was working on making scripts out of platinum subtitle transcripts remember?

http://pics.reiliberationparade.com.ar/tempdl/platinum_scripts/scripts/

I have one more to reformat before I run out of raws. If you want, give me more platinum subs episodes and I'll keep reformatting into script format.

Reichu

May 11th, 2006, 09:49 PM

I was working on making scripts out of platinum subtitle transcripts remember?

"Crap." I have that bad habit of asking about things, then going into "ADHD Mode" and forgetting about them. >_<

Of the Plat ones you have there, we've already got #01~#08 + #12 done, plus Polaryzed did #21', #22', #24', and #25 for me (random, I know). Collection (ADV's original DVD subs) are done up to #05. (Both versions of #01 need to be modded into the current format.)

For more randomness, #26' of #animedivx's EoE fansub is done. Both #25' and #26' of the a2000a fansub and #26' of Mangle's are in the old format and need to be reworked..

By "format", I mean the guidelines I drew up for those hard-to-get (but oh so blessed) toadies to follow, which looks like so (http://www.evacommentary.org/misc-files/script-format_1-1.txt). To pick one of the resultant transcripts randomly: #24' (http://www.evacommentary.org/misc-files/24_adv_npc_platinum.txt). (It's going to get tweaked more eventually, so that all of the designated speakers match the official script, and such.)

I have one more to reformat before I run out of raws. If you want, give me more platinum subs episodes and I'll keep reformatting into script format.

I have more raws, although what would you think about pooling our efforts (like I suggested a while ago before promptly forgetting about it) and using the FGC format I cooked up (or some revision thereof)? I want to eventually have a complete collection of transcripts prepared, but the format needs to be consistent throughout.

The Japanese scripts (what few have been typed in full) aren't as in quite as much demand (if, like, much of any), so those can idle on my HD for now...

MORE SLAVES! NEED MORE SLAVES!

Hexon.Arq

May 11th, 2006, 10:09 PM

I'm on strike, in case anyone gives a damn. (Not that I remember doing any work before the hiatus...)

AchtungAffen

May 11th, 2006, 10:40 PM

Well, I'll have to modify the software I'm using to fit the guidelines. Gimme them raws and I'll see to that. BTW, do you have online all the finished work?

Reichu

May 12th, 2006, 06:06 AM

Well, I'll have to modify the software I'm using to fit the guidelines.

You're using software? Tell me more. (I'll give you raws... after I get sleep, probably.)

BTW, do you have online all the finished work?

No -- I was hoping to put them officially online after those five aforementioned scripts were revised, or otherwise launch what I had finished soon as the Geektionary/Omake upgrade is ready. Why, should I put them online now for you? ;)

Would we we able to modify your #09 ~ #15 (- #12) to fit into the format, too?

I miss you, Hex. (I STILL want the full-sized Wanted Poster image.)

AchtungAffen

May 12th, 2006, 12:34 PM

I did this little app which made it easier to convert the raws I got at evamonkey forums. Other type of raws require a filter to modify them for the program to catch em allright. I have the app online, although not sure which version:

http://pics.reiliberationparade.com.ar/tempdl/platinum_scripts/Scripter2.rar

Noone from the minions which once helped me on this used it, so I believe I kept the best version to myself. Don't remember. It's been a while since the last time I did this job.

I could create a converter or something to reform the script formats, I believe.

LuigiHann

May 13th, 2006, 04:17 PM

Speaking of the Geektionary, the link there to the Thumbnail Theater zip is dead.

Reichu

May 13th, 2006, 06:41 PM

Speaking of the Geektionary, the link there to the Thumbnail Theater zip is dead.

How'd you notice that already?...

K, fixed.

Ugh. Update. Needed. So. Bad. Must. Keep. Working...

Reichu

May 23rd, 2006, 05:40 PM

It's hard to know what the hell to do first when your list is so damned long...

Over here (http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=191667&page=2&pp=15), OMF finally reappeared and made a suggestion:

My main suggestion at this point is for everything else to be dropped and the commentary to be resurrected. If trudging through obsure mathematical tomes has taught me one thing, it's that you get nowhere by simply sitting about thinking. You have to do something if you really want to understand. My gut tells me that through creating the commentary, we will gain new insights into the show that would otherwise be impossible to realise.

So let there be commentary pages. We can create them. We have the technology. Or at least, we will once Reichu gives me the spec.

By everything else being dropped, does that include NGE2 translation?

Most definitely. I could relate tales of manys the long night lost in a futile effort to grasp unintelligable and tersely worded theorems, but I will simply leave it at; "We learn by doing".

I suppose that may not be such a bad idea at this point... If nothing else, we can put up the unfinished work in its current state, with rockthing's translations if I haven't devised anything more refined, and I can pick away at it "as inspiration dictates"... since I'm about as ADHD as they get. Someone would need to throw it together, though.

So, um... Once I get this little update I keep on talking about out of the way, should making the forum operational be top priority? :P We (= anyone who still gives a crap about FGC) are going to need to discuss a lot of stuff, since a relaunch equates to "****load of matters to attend to all at once". One of the reasons I dread it so much.

And this is probably something you've gone over with me before, OMF, but what's the "spec" you refer to above?

Shin-seiki

May 23rd, 2006, 05:54 PM

The reason I advocated concentrating you efforts on the NGE2 was that it was a finite, doable project. You're better situated than I am to assess how much more of your time and effort it would take to finish it. If you're getting burned out on it, them don't force yourself, but I would think that getting the Commentary up and running is going to be even more work, and, unlike the NGE2, it would be a project without any clear end in sight.

thewayneiac

May 24th, 2006, 10:26 AM

Mr. Tines

May 24th, 2006, 11:25 AM

I keep nudging - ep#5 part 1 has been nearly ready for months now - but perhaps just one more heave might do the trick.

Vaikyuko

May 24th, 2006, 02:22 PM

I suggest commentary - shelve NGE2 for later, at this time.

Reichu

May 24th, 2006, 03:14 PM

"I know you're overwhelmed... but you're responsible for much more than yourself, you know? I mean, 14 freaking months! Get with the program, already!" http://www.evacommentary.org/forums/images/smiles/rant.gif
"Yeah, yeah... Reichu knows." http://www.evacommentary.org/forums/images/smiles/blankie.gif

...... http://www.evacommentary.org/forums/images/smiles/lastresort.gif

Just kidding. But a bucket of water would be useful here and there.

OMF

May 24th, 2006, 03:39 PM

And this is probably something you've gone over with me before, OMF, but what's the "spec" you refer to above?

For that commentary creation application I was talking about. Actually, I'm not sure if I mentioned that yet.

I take it by NGE2 translation, we're not talking about simply the classified information? Has Reichu taken it upon herself to translate the entire game?

I think the commentary is the best thing to work on in any case. I think the main benefit will be to get people creatibe juices flowing, and perhaps even lure a few old pike out from their lairs. Once the collective NGE community builds up momentum, I think creativity will follow.

Reichu

May 24th, 2006, 04:16 PM

For that commentary creation application I was talking about. Actually, I'm not sure if I mentioned that yet.

I think you mentioned it to me once or twice... but my brain probably won't be ready for a change in methodology until #06. :P

I take it by NGE2 translation, we're not talking about simply the classified information? Has Reichu taken it upon herself to translate the entire game?

Nope, just the CI. I need to finish grooming rockthing's translation (as it's problematic in places), but I run into a lot of tough patches, and it's been notoriously difficult to find human help willing and able to answer questions. (The place with the most potential, a professional translators' mailing list, humored by first batch, then promptly 'neglected to respond' to anything else...) Probably due to the source material being so hideously otaku.

If I stopped letting myself get hung up on trouble-spots and just noted them for the future, I'm sure it wouldn't take me that long to finish applying spit 'n' polish. These things tend not to take very long once I apply myself, but I am a woman of a 1,000 distractions...

I think the commentary is the best thing to work on in any case. I think the main benefit will be to get people creatibe juices flowing, and perhaps even lure a few old pike out from their lairs. Once the collective NGE community builds up momentum, I think creativity will follow.

I dunno if it's just (or at least partially) because I'm the one drowning in resources for FGC, but I've found that I've been having the exact opposite problem: inundation with ideas, to the point where my mind's been taken far off the 'public charts'. That's made it easier to get disconnected, as it were, since I get caught up the flurry of rapid-firing neurons and lose a sense of exactly "where everyone else is".

Anyway, 'nuff ranting. I have too many things to do.

Ornette

May 28th, 2006, 11:38 AM

Nope, just the CI. I need to finish grooming rockthing's translation (as it's problematic in places), but I run into a lot of tough patches, and it's been notoriously difficult to find human help willing and able to answer questions. (The place with the most potential, a professional translators' mailing list, humored by first batch, then promptly 'neglected to respond' to anything else...) Probably due to the source material being so hideously otaku.

If I stopped letting myself get hung up on trouble-spots and just noted them for the future, I'm sure it wouldn't take me that long to finish applying spit 'n' polish. These things tend not to take very long once I apply myself, but I am a woman of a 1,000 distractions...
I think the easiest thing to do (and I think you suggested it somewhere else too, maybe I'm imagining things) is to leave the big problem areas with footnotes and finish all the easy stuff. Since the translators mailing list seemed to have neglected to respond, maybe some of the people here who understand Japanese may be able to give some input. I'll even make rockthing check the thread every so often (internet connection pending). Then at some later time in the future, you can comb the thread and finally put up a finished version somewhere (like here and the FGC).

Of course, I'd love to see the Commentary start up again, it just seems (to me anyway, but I wouldn't really know) with the NGE2 CI being so close to a finished state, would be a shame to put it on the backburner. Having most of it posted, with the footnotes or sections marked "need help here" or something, would be awesome IMO, seeing as how the more juicier sections are towards the end. And then I wouldn't have to quote rockthing's translation whenever I want to cite references from the CI :)

Reichu

June 2nd, 2006, 03:16 PM

^ Yes. I like the thought of closure. A Reichu who cannot even get through the goddam NGE2 CI is no Reichu capable of putting her captain's cap back on.

Alright, sweethearts. I've uploaded updates for Supplemental Images (duh), and, more important-like, the Geektionary (THANK GAWD) and Omake. Please take a look and make sure I haven't fudged up anything huge. There is some other stuff lying around that I really need to just get off my HD (two PCPs, for example), but this will suffice for today.

One thing specifically: Here (http://www.evacommentary.org/omake/omake.html#capdoc), do the images show up as a bulleted list in Firefox for anybody? They're supposed to, but my browser is still choking on it (tho the coding minion says it works).

zx06

June 2nd, 2006, 03:35 PM

The bullets show up fine for me in firefox. There are a few small things in the omake section. Woman Solicits Penguin For Sex! links to the Zero-head image and the rollover is off on the links (it's one line higher though easily overcome). Looking foward to more.

Ornette

June 2nd, 2006, 04:52 PM

One thing specifically: Here (http://www.evacommentary.org/omake/omake.html#capdoc), do the images show up as a bulleted list in Firefox for anybody? They're supposed to, but my browser is still choking on it (tho the coding minion says it works).
hmm. Firefox 1.0.8 Linux i686, The links starting from "Food Court: all Gainax parodies" and ending with "???: Darth Gendo" kinda mess up the link highlighting. Looking at the HTML, it looks like you're using Definition Lists <dl>, which (technically) require a <dt></dt> (the title) and a <dd></dd> (the definition). These links are missing a <dd> field, I downloaded the HTML, added <dd> </dd> and it fixed the problem, but that leaves this blank space underneath each of the links.

Reichu

June 2nd, 2006, 04:56 PM

Oh gawd... Just sat here in very un-Reichu-like manner cleaning up CODE (Reichu + code = ?!?!?) in the Geektionary because IE was being picky where Firefox wasn't. (<dl> <dt> <dd>, I don't even really know what the heck those actually mean. :lol: ) Hopefully that fixes up any entry alignment problems in Internet Explorer. (Although there are other ones that I don't know how to fix.)

The bullets show up fine for me in firefox.

Alright, time for me to do some inspection work on my end. ;)

There are a few small things in the omake section. Woman Solicits Penguin For Sex! links to the Zero-head image

Oh dear.

and the rollover is off on the links (it's one line higher though easily overcome).

I did notice a problem with the anchor-links. For example, this (file:///C:/Pics/Neon%20Genesis%20Evangelion/!Commentary/omake/omake.html#emk) puts "Just paying my dues to this..." at the top of the page rather than the line just above, "Evil Manga Kaworu <etc.>". Is this happening to you?

Looking foward to more.

NOES! DON'T SAY THAT!

Oh, if by "more" you mean "the things that are already more or less done", then that's okay. ;) </ambiguous>

EDIT:

hmm. Firefox 1.0.8 Linux i686, The links starting from "Food Court: all Gainax parodies" and ending with "???: Darth Gendo" kinda mess up the link highlighting. <snip>

Hmm... Better leave this one to Steve, once he gets back.

RANDOM: "Swiss Army Spear" seems to have started clamoring for its own entry recently.

Mr. Tines

June 4th, 2006, 08:13 AM

Looking at the HTML, it looks like you're using Definition Lists <dl>, which (technically) require a <dt></dt> (the title) and a <dd></dd> (the definition).

Technically, it is valid HTML to have several <dt /> elements attached to a single <dd />; though the definition then strictly refers to all the title elements preceding it (which is a slightly different meaning to how it is actually being used). Bullets are then added on this page as a list counter CSS generated content for non-IE, and by script injection of a literal string for IE <= 6.

Alas, Reichu's HTML editor is a little flaky with <dl> lists, so, after I've caught up on everything from a happy week mostly off-net, I shall have to get out Notepad, and be a good little minion.

Reichu

June 4th, 2006, 08:45 AM

Alas, Reichu's HTML editor is a little flaky with <dl> lists, so, after I've caught up on everything from a happy week mostly off-net, I shall have to get out Notepad, and be a good little minion.

To be fair to DreamWeaver, I think that a lot of the problems stem from me (= teh n00b) going into the coding and making additions and edits to the page by attempting to emulate what's already there. Sometimes I can't figure out how to make DW's WYSIWYG editor do the things you've implemented (or I've just been too 'lazy' to find out ;) ), or it just doesn't cooperate otherwise -- but sometimes I screw up. -_-; I think I fixed a lot of my own flubs in the Geektionary, though.

Reichu

June 18th, 2006, 06:39 PM

I received an interesting ultimatum from Dr. Nick today: Either the slightest intimations towards "femme-Kaworu" are completely obliterated from the site now and forever*, or he is gone from the project for good. (There is more to the attitude problem than this, though.) When confronted with the rather lame options of "selective enforced censorship" and "loss of long-trusted and valuable colleague", which would you choose?

* Save for the capdoc images: "...you're allowed to keep those; I don't see them problematic outside the context of forum assholiousness".

CanonRAP

June 18th, 2006, 07:22 PM

I received an interesting ultimatum from Dr. Nick today: Either the slightest intimations towards "femme-Kaworu" are completely obliterated from the site now and forever*,

Just from you, or from everyone???

Wait, you pretty are the only one...

or he is gone from the project for good. (There is more to the attitude problem than this, though.) When confronted with the rather lame options of "selective enforced censorship" and "loss of long-trusted and valuable colleague", which would you choose?

It really is your choice, isn't it? We (...I) don't completely know how important Dr. Nick is to you ^_^.

Ah, now I've gone and made myself feel useless. Foo.

Shin-seiki

June 18th, 2006, 07:29 PM

I wonder why he finds that notion (which, to be sure, I still don't buy one bit, and don't really anticipate that my mind is likely to change either) so offensive. It's a pretty strange idea, and one that frankly speaking, is not likely to gain much long-term traction on this forum, much less the NGE fan community at large, but hey, we've all advocated some odd ideas and theories in the past that didn't stand up to peer scrutiny and feedback. I'm just mystified as to why he sees this one particular issue as deserving of such a harsh stance. I certainly agree that we all would benefit from getting the Good Doctor back on board, especially since the Commentary Project seems to be on the verge of revival. I can't help but remember tho, that back when Reichu seemed to want to banish anti-A/S shipping from the Commentary, we all (Dr Nick included) thought that was a bad idea, one that would set an unfortunate precedent, so I wonder why he now wants to advocate something comparable in this case. I think that as long as Reichu makes it clear that this is just a pet theory of hers, and is not remotely to be considered canon, nor does it at all represent the consensus of this forum, then I don't see the harm in mentioning it at the appropriate time (when we get around to doing #24). But if it comes down to it, maybe we should just humor him in this regard.
I would like to invite Dr Nick to come back to the forum, and allow us all, if he so wishes, to discuss and hash out together whatever issues have been alienating him for the past months...

BLACKANGEL32076

June 18th, 2006, 07:48 PM

the only thing I can say to that is this;

Present him an argument for the whole "femme-Kaworu" that he cannot argue against. If after that, he still want to go, let him. If you cannot, give up on this whole notion of yours until either you can present such an arguement, or until he comes up with the notion of femme-Kaworu being logical himself.

Reichu

June 18th, 2006, 08:02 PM

I think that as long as Reichu makes it clear that this is just a pet theory of hers, and is not remotely to be considered canon, nor does it at all represent the consensus of this forum, then I don't see the harm in mentioning it at the appropriate time (when we get around to doing #24).

Yeah, I think it's obvious that I'm well-aware of my position. :P I don't even know if F-K'll still be around that far from now, but the concept of enforced censorship (rather than just letting an idea organically play itself out, and then ... whatever) is a slightly disturbing one. Considering Dr. Nick's adversarial nature when he left, I honestly wonder if he would leave things at killing a somewhat harmless pet theory.

I can't help but remember tho, that back when Reichu seemed to want to banish anti-A/S shipping from the Commentary, we all (Dr Nick included) thought that was a bad idea, one that would set an unfortunate precedent, so I wonder why he now wants to advocate something comparable in this case.

That came to mind, as well. In my saner moments, I really don't think that sort of stuff is good voodoo.

But if it comes down to it, maybe we should just humor him in this regard. ... I would like to invite Dr Nick to come back to the forum, and allow us all to discuss and hash out together whatever issues have been alienating him for the past months...

I don't think there's anything else *I* can say to him at this point without degenerating the situation further, so perhaps some words from you, or others, would be a good idea. (As I've alluded, this "femme-Kaworu" thing really IS NOT where my anxieties here begin and end, but it does serve to highlight a greater problem.)

I really want to avoid this "final terms" nonsense if I can help it, though.

Present him an argument for the whole "femme-Kaworu" that he cannot argue against. If after that, he still want to go, let him. If you cannot, give up on this whole notion of yours until either you can present such an arguement, or until he comes up with the notion of femme-Kaworu being logical himself.

Well, I "give up" on things when it feels natural to me. Most people made up their minds about this one on the day of its lame-o conception, so about all I do is "idly mention" it now and then, seriously or not. Try to debate it with Dr. Nick? I think I'd rather get ulcers...

Jabberwok

June 18th, 2006, 08:13 PM

I received an interesting ultimatum from Dr. Nick today: Either the *slightest* intimations towards "femme-Kaworu" are completely obliterated from the site now and forever, or he is gone from the project for good. (There is more to the attitude problem than this, though.) When confronted with the rather lame options of "enforced dictatorial censorship" and "loss of long-trusted and valuable colleague", which would you choose?
You are presented with a bit of a dilema, one that I can not advise on easily.

In my time, I have been know to be a cold bastard with some of my good friends over certain (read stupid) issues. I have yet to speak with them after many seasons. I guess I have no problem hitting the 'baleeted' key on a friendship sometimes. At other times though, I have been known to acquiesce and accept my lot rather patheticly. Sometimes I have regrets, sometimes not.

It appears a gauntlet has been thrown down before you. You have been given binary decision with no room for compromise; unless you have paraphrased the 'ultimatum', I see no hint of the previously suggested "Ghetto'.

Dr. Nick's opinions on Eva's resident bishounen seem pretty clear cut and rather unyeilding, but I can tell you one thing: If I was part of the Commentary Project (I am not necessarily asking to be, although it looks like much fun), when Ep:24 rolls around you can bet I'd open my stupid mouth, make a couple of witty (read retarted) jokes during the appropriate scenes (Kaworu, why do I see snails and puppy-dog's tails but hear sugar and spice? Or: This scene looks alot like the one from the carrier. Shinji, are you ready for the stuff that comes after, too?), and then move on. If that would spark something along the lines of "Blank, not more of this blank she-Kaworu blank. I thought we banned this blank.", then I'd have to say "Blank you, buddy." I have my own little pet theories too. Would the rest of those get thrown in the "Memory Hole" if I mention them, even in a non-serious manner?

A normal commentary track is done by those that had hand in the creative process. Unfortunately those people do not seem to be forthcoming. Commenters add what they can to a commentary, and those close to or in the action add the best. We are not such people. Nor were Manga. Would Mr. Jaffe, were he a part of the Commentary Project, be told to shut his cake-hole and stick to the hard facts? Those with cinematic and animation backgrounds contribute their knowledge of composition, mood, and other nonsense words. Those with psychological, religious, or cultural knowlegde offer their insight. The rest of us plebeians offer discussion, theories, and, in my case, bad jokes.

What I got out of the Commentary was very much what I got out of these boards, albeit in a condensed and visual form. I got to see things I never noticed before. I got to hear lines I never heard before. Connections I had never made before and references I never heard found before. I got to chuckle at joke or two, and, above all, I got to say "Lol u noob. Thats not what that means." and then tap my scroll-wheel and get the f**k over it.

To make a short story long: Given a black and white choice like the one above, I would tend to do what I want to and say piss off. But I don't know the parties involved enough to give that advice. I can only hope that the end result of the Project retains the massive quality advantage it has over the Commentary of Evil.

CanonRAP

June 18th, 2006, 08:40 PM

A normal commentary track is done by those that had hand in the creative process. Unfortunately those people do not seem to be forthcoming. Commenters add what they can to a commentary, and those close to or in the action add the best. We are not such people. Nor were Manga. Would Mr. Jaffe, were he a part of the Commentary Project, be told to shut his cake-hole and stick to the hard facts? Those with cinematic and animation backgrounds contribute their knowledge of composition, mood, and other nonsense words. Those with psychological, religious, or cultural knowlegde offer their insight. The rest of us plebeians offer discussion, theories, and, in my case, bad jokes.

Very nicely summed up. I wish I can do more than nod and agree, but I'm tired and I've always been a quiet lurker.

What I got out of the Commentary was very much what I got out of these boards, albeit in a condensed and visual form. I got to see things I never noticed before. I got to hear lines I never heard before. Connections I had never made before and references I never heard found before. I got to chuckle at joke or two, and, above all, I got to say "Lol u noob. Thats not what that means." and then tap my scroll-wheel and get the f**k over it.

And that is the greatness that is the FGC project, and why it should be revived. "Lol u noob" hehe...

To make a short story long: Given a black and white choice like the one above, I would tend to do what I want to and say piss off. But I don't know the parties involved enough to give that advice. I can only hope that the end result of the Project retains the massive quality advantage it has over the Commentary of Evil.

"Compromises make everyone miserable."

And doesn't the project already, in its unfinished state, kick the CoE's *** thrice over??

Reichu

June 18th, 2006, 08:54 PM

It appears a gauntlet has been thrown down before you. You have been given binary decision with no room for compromise; unless you have paraphrased the 'ultimatum', I see no hint of the previously suggested "Ghetto'.

Ordinarily I wouldn't post this sort of thing publicly, but... To avoid the ambiguities of paraphrasing, the quote goes:

There are two things I won't tolerate on our site, Femme-Kaworu and any sort of evidence manipulation attempts. If you want to have those, you'll need to kick me out first.

(... "evidence manipulation attempts"?)

To make a short story long: Given a black and white choice like the one above, I would tend to do what I want to and say piss off. But I don't know the parties involved enough to give that advice.

Dr. Nick is a vet' who has been around since that magical Summer of 2003. He was there for FGC's conception -- and there aren't many people still participating in forum discussion here who have that qualification*. He's been one of its/my strongest supporters in the subsequent years, despite the extremely frequent downtime, and put a lot of his own time and energy into helping me out. Some kind of huge psychic schism formed when I went "batshit crazy" at the turn of the year (2005-->2006), though, and it doesn't really seem to have healed. (Only, perhaps, been "conveniently ignored".)

In any case, my goals for the site aren't any different now (I don't think...) than they were before, and losing Dr. Nick at this point would be ... well, not especially groovy.

* Uh... me... Shin-seiki... thewayneiac... :mind goes blank:

Mr. Tines

June 18th, 2006, 10:12 PM

Can you say "emotional blackmail"? I knew you could.

I'm actually more concerned about the implications of the "evidence manipulation" assertion, which casts aspersions on the integrity of the whole project.

But then I am one of the few who took the F-K idea and said "That makes a weird sort of sense!". And the primary target of the anti-anti-shipping provision, too.

Ornette

June 18th, 2006, 11:17 PM

(... "evidence manipulation attempts"?)
Maybe he meant the processing of images to get a clearer picture? Like the overlayed images from the Reiquarium and stuff.

I'm really curious about what the real root of his problem is because it seems to me that it's not just f-K and "evidence manipulation". There could just be other issues that pop up in the future even if we do remove the f-K stuff.

Reichu

June 19th, 2006, 07:39 AM

Maybe he meant the processing of images to get a clearer picture? Like the overlayed images from the Reiquarium and stuff.
Well, just to rant a little: Those are results that can theoretically be replicated. You just capture all of the frames for when a 'mystery image' is displayed and select one of them to use as a template. Then you go through the various frames looking for sections of the image that are the least affected by the watery distortion (i.e., appear crisp); then lasso them, copy + paste + properly locate them onto the "template" image; and do a little blending around the edges for integrative purposes. Soon enough, you get something that looks considerably better than any one screenshot. Pretty straightforward procedure. I suppose if all that counted as pernicious image manipulation, then the creation of my standard-issue composites would have to be included, as well.

But I have my doubts that Reiquarium images are foremost on Dr. Nick's mind.

I'm really curious about what the real root of his problem is because it seems to me that it's not just f-K and "evidence manipulation". There could just be other issues that pop up in the future even if we do remove the f-K stuff.
That's what I think, as well.

Can you say "emotional blackmail"? I knew you could.

(Perhaps, but that aspect of things might best be left alone... :cough:e-drama:cough: )

I'm actually more concerned about the implications of the "evidence manipulation" assertion, which casts aspersions on the integrity of the whole project.
VERY bad voodoo.

But then I am one of the few who took the F-K idea and said "That makes a weird sort of sense!". And the primary target of the anti-anti-shipping provision, too.
How does this follow from Point A?

Magami No ER

June 19th, 2006, 08:17 AM

Might as well chime in.
IMO, TRUE pet theories won't go away until given clearance from the creators, specifically Anno, and since that'll never happen, we must make do.
It's where we draw the line between our discoveries and theories that we apparently can prove that causes conflict.(I must stress I'm not refering to anyone/thing in particular, even if the subject is F-K)
I hope something works out between you two, personally.

*On a sidenote, I think Dr.Nick once made a comment about "image manipulation" long ago, in terms of using speific images together to prove a point within a post, therefore not allowing the public in essence to see other parts of the scene that would allude to the theory not having as much substance as we or the poster would have liked....that's why the line blurs, because sometimes I feel that is the case, and hence I don't comment, and sometimes, I completely agree with the idea. But, it's not like we can't just watch the specific scenes/episodes ourselves to see what we think.
The important thing to rememeber though is the mission of the commentary project, it may be as much for ourselves and our own experiences as it is for the public gone astray with ACTUAL misinformation, but we must be able to acknowlege the fact that we can't agree on everything, and neither may some of the traffic visiting the site.
If we intend on not censoring anything, disclaimers must be used when needed.
That's all.

Reichu

June 19th, 2006, 10:19 AM

A note for the Common Peoples: In conjunction with the creation of a translation notes page for NGE2 CI, I'm also going to start up that "Japanese in NGE" page. This would basically cover key terms and phrases in the show -- not actually a lexicon, but a LINGUAL guide. So, for example, it would include the Japanese versions of the terms, along with the various English-equivalent / transliterated versions. It's difficult to explain what I mean, so here's a sampling of how things might work...

Angel ... see Shito.
Apostle ... see Shito.
Embryo of Lives ... see Inochi no Taiga.
Inochi no Taiga ... 命の胎芽. Used by Fuyutsuki in such-and-such line in #26' to describe ToL... translated by bochan_bird as PoS... more accurate translation seems to be...
Lance of Longinus ... see Longinus no Yari.
Longinus no Yari ... ロンギヌスの槍. Officially translated as "Spear of Longinus", blah blah blah...
Propagule of Souls ... see Inochi no Taiga.
Seed of Life ... see Seimei no Tane.
Seimeitai no Minamoto ... 生命体の源. "Source of Life (Living Things)". Used by Misato to describe Adam and Lilith in #25'.
Seimei no Tane ... 生命の種. "Seed of Life". Used to designate Adam and Lilith (and unnamed others?) in the NGE2 CI. Seems to be synonymous with Seimeitai no Minamoto.
Shito ... 使徒/"Angel". Japanese literally translates to "apostle" or "disciple", but "angel" was chosen as the English language counterpart, blah blah blah.
Spear of Longinus ... see Longinus no Yari.

Notes on terminology that arise while I do the CI stuff would go here. The creation of this section would provide a proper location for some of the stuff in the Geektionary and elsewhere, as well.

Now, the problem is, what the heck would be a groovy and concise name for this section?!?

IMO, TRUE pet theories won't go away until given clearance from the creators, specifically Anno, and since that'll never happen, we must make do.
I dunno. Pet theories of mine have taken to the grave before. You forget about your Tamagotchi and ignore it, it dies a horrible death. ;)

It's where we draw the line between our discoveries and theories that we apparently can prove that causes conflict.(I must stress I'm not refering to anyone/thing in particular, even if the subject is F-K)
(Nice abbreviation, isn't it? "Oh, F--K!!!")

In this area or anywhere else, passions can always get in the way of subjectivity, and personal viewpoints that are "right until given some reason to be abandoned for something else". I obviously teeter between various mindstates, and left to my own devices FGC would likely become a veritable "Reichu World". You can probably see indications of that in the Geektionary and the PCPs, which haven't really gotten the editorial sweep from others... The absense of the community aspect of this project does keep me from adding much stuff to the site. (ph34r of my own destructive capabilities!)

Actually, the problems with the Geektionary (and such) are one of the reasons why I asked for ideas about what should be added in the update, and blah blah blah -- to avoid a huge axe session later. (You bet the Doctor handed me one of those.)

I hope something works out between you two, personally.
Would be nice. (And thanks.)

*On a sidenote, I think Dr.Nick once made a comment about "image manipulation" long ago, in terms of using speific images together to prove a point within a post, therefore not allowing the public in essence to see other parts of the scene that would allude to the theory not having as much substance as we or the poster would have liked.... But, it's not like we can't just watch the specific scenes/episodes ourselves to see what we think.

Yeah, and it's not as if the people here are complete "'tards". Selectively using images is obviously not "proving a point" if people can poke holes in it; it's the same thing for whatever somebody presents when they advocate an idea. Forum debate and the development of ideas (and their individual success, or lack thereof) are organic processes, never perfect, and it's what actually ends up on the site that matters. (There would optimally be a check and balance system for preventing absolute lunacy on the part of the webmaster, in any case...)

that's why the line blurs, because sometimes I feel that is the case, and hence I don't comment, and sometimes, I completely agree with the idea.

Feel what is the case? "Evidence manipulation"?

but we must be able to acknowlege the fact that we can't agree on everything, and neither may some of the traffic visiting the site.
If we intend on not censoring anything, disclaimers must be used when needed.

I wasn't planning on absolute censorship of anything, really. Certain policies and favoritisms are in place, to be sure -- since FGC has no pretensions of being Wikipedia, which has a crappy NGE section anyway :P -- but it's not as if, say, the people who don't buy into "female Evas/Seeds" won't have a place where they can express their misgivings. Even if I said "NO!", the ideas would still exist, so why not be thorough?

Besides. I can go against the grain, and I would want to be able to at least throw fringe ideas into the fray. And not be a loser-hypocrite in the process.

Mr. Tines

June 19th, 2006, 10:34 AM

How does this follow from Point A?

Just declaring my possible conflicts of interest...

a comment about "image manipulation" long ago, in terms of using speific images together to prove a point within a post

As the FGC will be comprehensive, all the context will be immediately available. That means that it should be easy to distinguish the genuine signal (one frame of WTF!? around 2I) from the misleading selective choice (Asuka apparently eyeing up Shinji's package - or lack thereof - in ep#9).

Reichu

June 19th, 2006, 10:53 AM

As the FGC will be comprehensive, all the context will be immediately available. That means that it should be easy to distinguish the genuine signal (one frame of WTF!? around 2I) from the misleading selective choice (Asuka apparently eyeing up Shinji's package - or lack thereof - in ep#9).
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/Reichu/09_asukashinji_rofl.jpg

"He hasn't responded yet! What a boring boy..."

I believe this particular one was used as an example of when step-framing yields the sorts of humorous or amusing results generally missed by 'the naked eye', but not necessarily ones that mean anything. (But, uh, Asuka is weird enough that I won't discount the possibility offhand. ;) )

CanonRAP

June 19th, 2006, 11:57 AM

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/Reichu/09_asukashinji_rofl.jpg

"He hasn't responded yet! What a boring boy..."

:blink: :shifty:

Ornette

June 19th, 2006, 12:19 PM

Now, the problem is, what the heck would be a groovy and concise name for this section?!?
How about: "English NGE vs Japanese NGE"? Also, if it isn't already there, I think Kami should be added.

I wasn't planning on absolute censorship of anything, really. Certain policies and favoritisms are in place, to be sure -- since FGC has no pretensions of being Wikipedia, which has a crappy NGE section anyway -- but it's not as if, say, the people who don't buy into "female Evas/Seeds" won't have a place where they can express their misgivings. Even if I said "NO!", the ideas would still exist, so why not be thorough?
I think this is a good point. The trivial disclaimer being a "this is not wikipedia" type of thing. However, some ideas (like the F-K, or 15 monoliths, or others) that harbors a wide (and colorful) range of acceptance/vehement rejection that it's hard to clearly express everyone's take on the matter without a lot of background discussion. But those are probably rare in comparison to all the solid stuff you guys have already come up with.

"He hasn't responded yet! What a boring boy..."
sorry, that image was screaming to be doctored... (http://buzzy.tesuji.org/images/animated/09_asukashinji_rofl.gif)

edit: added a frame to the doctored image

LuigiHann

June 19th, 2006, 06:25 PM

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5705/eyesup4aq.png

Reichu

June 19th, 2006, 08:13 PM

...what have I done?!? So, what do you think? Animation quirk, or intentional? :shifty: I always did think Asuka was a master of projection: "HENTAI!" "Speak for yourself, beeyotch! I saw you eyeing my crotch at school!" "You liar! You tried to kiss me in my sleep!" "...!!! STFU! I stopped!" "Hah, I was just kidding! You mean you really did try to kiss me? Why the hell DID you stop?!? :socks Shinji in the temple:"

How about: "English NGE vs Japanese NGE"? Also, if it isn't already there, I think Kami should be added.

I suppose that would suffice as a temporary page designation; I'm at a lack for anything "short and clever" or "long and catchy" right now. Kami would definitely be there -- however much a nightmare that particular entry would be.

Between this page, the Geektionary, and the lexicon that will hopefully emerge, there will inevitably be at least some overlap, but the inherent functions would all be different enough that this probably won't be a problem.

However, some ideas (like the F-K, or 15 monoliths, or others) that harbors a wide (and colorful) range of acceptance/vehement rejection that it's hard to clearly express everyone's take on the matter without a lot of background discussion. But those are probably rare in comparison to all the solid stuff you guys have already come up with.

Those particular examples are ones which have a pretty obvious current status. (If any mention of them needs to be banished from the Geektionary, or whatever, my "complaint box" remains open.*) I'm really not "finished" with any of them, but come what may in the long-term; it's like anything else.

Although not explicitly mentioned in the 'final terms', Dr. Nick also holds very harsh judgments towards F-K's two buddies. (The Big Three, for old times' sake, are Femme-Kaworu, Ghosts of the Lake, and Keel Lorenz Made My Dad Gay. In some cases, such as here, the latter can be expanded into general Dr. Katsuragi is Important territory.) I've always had "strange ideas", and if they're "that strange" the only thing people need to do is not agree with them (assuming I'm not acting like a f***ing idiot); but the Big Three, due to the circumstances behind their introduction and various factors beyond my comprehension, seem to have been mutated into symbols of a higher "psychic schism". (Christmas trees, anyone?)

But suffice to say -- yes, over this much time the amount of stuff we've that's been generated on this forum (and bits and pieces other places, by people associated with it) is vast. "Solid" can take on varying shades of subjective, and even continents can shift below your feet, but certainly a sturdy foundation for basic operations seems to have been put together, and a very large body of ideas and information has amassed. (...Eventually producing the particular brand of "batshit crazy" geekitude this subforum evidently suffers from. :P ) And a lot of it is stuff that most people can agree on.

So this is all probably a VERY rambling way of saying, "Yes, I agree."

* Mentioning things like F-K and such seemed like "a good idea at the time" if for no other reason than 'cultural notoriety'. But I can be quite adept at bad judgment.

Dr. Nick

June 20th, 2006, 10:21 AM

I would like to invite Dr Nick to come back to the forum, and allow us all, if he so wishes, to discuss and hash out together whatever issues have been alienating him for the past months...

I took a little break to prevent myself from participating in forum drama. "If your hand tempts you to sin, cut it off" etc. No more about that.

Might as well chime in.
IMO, TRUE pet theories won't go away until given clearance from the creators, specifically Anno, and since that'll never happen, we must make do.

Thank you so much for posting this. You see, ladies and gentlemen, the F--K is not your typical pet theory, because it is 100% provably false. In this respect it's similar to Fuzzy Chicken's infamous "Rei never died" theory. Kaworu is a boy, this is told us in the show by an omniscient third person narrator. There's no ambiguity whatsoever.

Like Reichu said, I don't like some of her ideas, but that's no reason for me to start randomly axing them. When there's room for discussion, we'll discuss. That's one of the important principles of the Commentary, IMO. But as some of the older members here probably know, I'm not especially fond of misinformation. Please remember, why did we start this project in the first place? Because we, the fans, wanted to fight the rampant misinformation and provide the noobs a trustworthy information site. And as it happens, the logic processor in my brain says that if an information site contains false information, it has failed in its purpose.

Believe it or not, but this ultimatum I made is my way of taking responsibility of my work. If this project is turned into something it was not supposed to be originally, i.e. a fan-fiction site instead of an information site, I can at least comfort myself by thinking that I did all I could to prevent that.

(... "evidence manipulation attempts"?)

So that everybody knows what the hell I was talking about, I was referring to this (http://animenation.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5555528&postcount=4). I see that it was a bad idea to put it together with the F--K declaration: It doesn't make a good ultimatum, because it isn't anything clearly defined. It was not my purpose to suggest that if Shin-seiki even mentions the word "parallelism", I'll bite his head off like Ozzy Osbourne back when he still could rock. I'm not quite that radical. So, uh, try to think the F--K and this as two slightly separate issues. There's a difference in strictness.

But theories based on this sort of selective methodology must not be permissible, because that will make the project self-destruct. I'm not kidding: if we accept just about anything, some joker will eventually exploit this potential and spam the commentary to death with Dennis Redmond -esque theories, just because ve can. You see, there is a potentially infinite amount of incorrect ideas, and only limited number of correct ideas. Simulated situation:

RahOtaku in disguise: "Hi u guys, you know what I realized yesterday? Whenever the word "gene" is mentioned in NGE, it doesn't refer to human biology, but in fact to Gene Simmons! There's nothing in the show that directly disagrees with this idea, and I also got fan art supporting my point!"
INCORRECT PROCEDURE: *sigh* "I guess I'll have to create another appendix, then..."
CORRECT PROCEDURE: "Prove that you're not making this stuff up or GTFO."

I've been parroting this over and over again. Burden of proof. Burden of proof. Burden of proof. Either that or chaos. And Geektionary entries for Santa-Rei. And Gene. As I said, I can't - and I won't - start randomly axing people's submissions, but by golly, we need some sort of guideline here.

As my closing words I want to apologize if I come off as an aggressive bastard; it is not my purpose to offend Reichu, or any other crew member for that matter. But when I say what I honestly think, I won't sugarcoat my words. This ultimatum is, to use a great cliche, a desperate action by a desperate man. Misinformation or me, take your pick.

Reichu

June 20th, 2006, 11:21 AM

As a general rule, I would hope that a sort of democracy would come into play when it comes down to designating "lame bullsh!t not to be given any real coverage whatsoever", rather than giving one person dictatorial censorship power. That's the ugly offal that this issue boils down to, ultimately, together with a fine sprinkling of needless hypocrisy and "jumping the gun".

Mr. Tines

June 20th, 2006, 11:38 AM

There's another parallel strand that aims at the heart of the project, though, that Dr Nick raises by implication.

"Do we trust the preview narrator?"

and if we start distrusting the source material, then everything ends up writ in water. AFAIK the episode 23 preview is one of the few places where the language is reasonably unambiguous about gender and such.

In the interests of avoiding spoiler, such a narrator is allowed to mislead, but equally should not commit the lie direct.

But we have a dilemma here, too. The narrator says boy, while omitting other significant facets of Kaworu's nature. OTOH, saying "an entity that superficially appears to be a boy", would give the game away.

Reichu

June 20th, 2006, 12:02 PM

AFAIK the episode 23 preview is one of the few places where the language is reasonably unambiguous about gender and such.
In the Jikai Yokoku, multiple results turned up for kare (he), kanojo (she), shounen (boy), and shoujo (girl) alone.

Shin-seiki's already described the status of F-K ("pet theory" that convinces next to nobody), so I'm not sure what the point of triggering debate over its logic here would be, because then we would start a whole 'philosophical' debate and begin to filter out every single idea held by one of the commentary participants that is "demonstrably false" (at least, from a certain point of view) and thus must be censored from the site on an absolute basis. If you set a precedent, you should at least go all the way, right?

The sentiments from my last post remain.

Dr. Nick

June 20th, 2006, 12:10 PM

As a general rule, I would hope that a sort of democracy would come into play when it comes down to designating "lame bullsh!t not to be given any real coverage whatsoever", rather than giving one person dictatorial censorship power.
I wholeheartedly agree, when there's room for discussion. Facts, on the other hand, are much simpler things to handle. If/when RahOtaku-in-disguise suggests that NGE is a 49 episodes long series, I don't think there's any need to take a vote whether or not this statement will be included in the commentary, eh?

EDIT:
In the Jikai Yokoku, multiple results turned up for kare (he), kanojo (she), shounen (boy), and shoujo (girl) alone.
When referring to Kaworu?!? :blink:

Reichu

June 20th, 2006, 12:48 PM

When referring to Kaworu?!? :blink:

Hmm, I guess I creatively misread. I thought he was talking about gender in the Jikai Yokoku as a whole. http://www.evacommentary.org/forums/images/smiles/paranoid.gif

Mr. Tines

June 20th, 2006, 01:00 PM

I was at fault; I was thinking of places where the gender of non-Lilim is concerned (Adam in particular), but was not being clear in expressing myself.

Dr. Nick

June 20th, 2006, 10:20 PM

Shin-seiki's already described the status of F-K ("pet theory" that convinces next to nobody), so I'm not sure what the point of triggering debate over its logic here would be, because then we would start a whole 'philosophical' debate

Uh, what the hell? Solid facts have nothing to do with personal viewpoints. First Impact didn't kill off the dinosaurs, this is true to you, me, Amanda Winn Lee and the Space Pope, regardless of our personal beliefs. The only way to turn this into a "philosophical debate" is to start questioning basic concepts such as "truth" and "narrator", classic Fuzzy style. That's what he did when he found himself cornered, he turned into a kitchen sink Aristotle and started picking apart the, I dare to say rather clear-cut concept of canonicity.

and begin to filter out every single idea held by one of the commentary participants that is "demonstrably false" (at least, from a certain point of view) and thus must be censored from the site on an absolute basis.

You make it sound as if this sort of thing happens all the time. Please, provide me an example of a similar situation where a commentator tries to put forward a blatanly false idea, igniting a raging "philosophical debate", because I sure don't remember seeing any of those recently.

If you set a precedent, you should at least go all the way, right?

Yes. That's exactly what I'm after. And when we allow one demonstrably false argument to sneak in, what happens next? RahOtaku-in-disguise submits a new theory: Hideaki Anno is, in fact, a female. A Mon Calamari female. Now, there are two options: the theory is either accepted or rejected.

The former option basically destroys the entire commentary, as it signals that everything's free game, that there are no facts but just different personal viewpoints. The whole meaning behind the project suddenly vanishes into thin air. The latter option, on the other hand, would be power abuse, as it would mean that only certain people in the crew are allowed to inject false info into the commentary. The project would not die, but it would be turned into a some kind of forum rep/post count based dictatorship. In either way, the site's credibility is gone for good. It's a lose-lose situation.

The Femme-Kaworu is a small issue, laughably small, but it is so dangerous that it can bring the entire house of cards down. It is the commentary Antichrist, and I'm half serious about that.

Reichu

June 20th, 2006, 10:58 PM

My sense of willpower on the matter seems to have asphyxiated several hours ago, so, in place of a self-directed "pwnd" image, a deep, hard kanchou of the Geektionary will show up sometime after I get actual sleep. If all goes well, I will not grow green fur and start living in a trash can. (At least, not permanently.)

(I'm not sure if I can prevent such ventage as Evil Manga Femme-Kaworu manglings from showing up in general, though. That would just be too cruel.)

Dr. Nick

June 21st, 2006, 05:53 AM

So does this mean we can return to our regularly scheduled programming and start doing something productive for a change?

(I'm not sure if I can prevent such ventage as Evil Manga Femme-Kaworu manglings from showing up in general, though. That would just be too cruel.)

Don't worry. I overreacted once in Go Hikari! but I'm not planning to repeat that scene. I've learned not to care about the things that end up on the forum, so you can post nude pictures of yourself for all I care. And I must admit - and I'm sorry if this looks like I'm stealing Treize's lines - that on a conceptual level the idea of female Kaworu is in a way kinda hot.

But updates, you say? *coughworkinprogresspagecough* *coughepeniscough*

Reichu

June 21st, 2006, 08:17 AM

So does this mean we can return to our regularly scheduled programming and start doing something productive for a change?

What, you mean like the cerebral torture of translating the Classified Information?

Don't worry. I overreacted once in Go Hikari! but I'm not planning to repeat that scene. I've learned not to care about the things that end up on the forum, so you can post nude pictures of yourself for all I care.

So this includes the to-be FGC forum, I hope? (Nude pictures? I shudder at the thought.)

And I must admit - and I'm sorry if this looks like I'm stealing Treize's lines - that on a conceptual level the idea of female Kaworu is in a way kinda hot.

Whoa whoa whoa! Hold it! Are you talking about THIS female Kaworu (http://www.evacommentary.org/images_capdoc/reichu_shower-wtf.jpg), or THAT female Kaworu (http://www.evacommentary.org/images_capdoc/reichu_kaworei.jpg)? (Just curious...)

(On a virtually non-related note, were you kidding about my avatar being "GARish"? His purple-haired bishieness must know!)

But updates, you say? *coughworkinprogresspagecough* *coughepeniscough*

Yeah, but that page is, like, "_offline", so it doesn't matter that much. :P I'll look at it ... later.

Having trouble giving the ANF entry the kancho. When did the Golden Age stop again? What the heck sort of Age are we in now? (Mid-Life Crisis with desperate need for college reunion? Wait... that doesn't sound very optimistic.) Is this forum's collective history actually considered that great by the Internets at large, or are we just full of ourselves? Can someone else rewrite this entry or something so I can stop thinking about it?

And, no other ideas for a title for the thing mentioned at the top here (http://animenation.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5811702&postcount=1050)?

Dr. Nick

June 21st, 2006, 09:14 AM

What, you mean like the cerebral torture of translating the Classified Information?
Yeah, and I shall continue rippin' da subs. Citizens: all Platinum episodes have been cleared, so don't waste your time on them anymore. Instead, I'd be very grateful if someone could provide me with raw subtitle transcripts of Perfect Collection episodes 6-24. By raws I mean straight-out-of-the-machine text files that look like this (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/Dr-Nick/useful/subraw.gif).

So this includes the to-be FGC forum, I hope?
Naturally.

Whoa whoa whoa! Hold it! Are you talking about THIS female Kaworu (http://www.evacommentary.org/images_capdoc/reichu_shower-wtf.jpg), or THAT female Kaworu (http://www.evacommentary.org/images_capdoc/reichu_kaworei.jpg)? (Just curious...)
I was thinking of something more like this... (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/Dr-Nick/NGE/manrei.gif) And what in the name of our Lord Sean McCoy is that second picture of yours?!? :crybaby:

(On a virtually non-related note, were you kidding about my avatar being "GARish"? His purple-haired bishieness must know!)
Oh dear, this is going to be difficult to explain, especially because I'm not one of the cool kids who invented the term... As far as I know, GAR is, uh, somewhat an umbrella term for certain kinds of vaguely homosexual vibes. For example, "I'm totally GAR for Char; he makes pink flight suits look so manly". Apparently, GAR doesn't carry any sort of negative connotations the way common "gay" does. Shortly put,
"That was incredibly gay!" = usually a negative comment
whereas
"That was incredibly GAR! = a great compliment

I hope that makes some sense, and please, do correct me if there were any mistakes in that explanation attempt. -_-;

And, no other ideas for a title for the thing mentioned at the top here (http://animenation.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5811702&postcount=1050)?
Moonspeak Main? Weeaboo Central?

Mr. Tines

June 21st, 2006, 11:18 AM

RahOtaku-in-disguise submits a new theory: Hideaki Anno is, in fact, a female. A Mon Calamari female.

That, of course, crosses levels, out of the text. A better example would be that Gendo is in fact a Slitheen (http://www.cuttingsarchive.org.uk/newwho/season01/epguide01.htm#ep104). Or maybe it's Keel who fits that assertion better?

And, no other ideas for a title for the thing mentioned at the top here (http://animenation.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5811702&postcount=1050)?

How about "Translation Hell"?

And what in the name of our Lord Sean McCoy is that second picture of yours?!? :crybaby:

A head transplant.

Reichu

June 21st, 2006, 01:36 PM

I was thinking of something more like this... (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/Dr-Nick/NGE/manrei.gif)
Noes! Don't you see, that's really Mana in disguise, trying once again to infiltrate Nerv HQ by posing as Rei's long-lost sister!

And what in the name of our Lord Sean McCoy is that second picture of yours?!? :crybaby:
You've never seen that one before? 'Tis the result of a two-step process: (1) Replace front-GNR's face with front-GNK's; (2) replace rear-GNK with rear-GNR. A little Photoshop magic, and tada!

As far as I know, GAR is, uh, somewhat an umbrella term for certain kinds of vaguely homosexual vibes. ... Apparently, GAR doesn't carry any sort of negative connotations the way common "gay" does.
Oh, well, if that's what you meant, then I agree. :naughty: Seems to encompass the artistic intent, at any rate.

His pretty face shall depart from the page presently -- but, wait, if fan-art is the grave of our credibility, what about all of the other fan-stuffs associated with the Geektionary? And, incidentally, are images created for illustrative purposes "fan-art"? What connotates "okay" use and "bad" use? Reichu must know...

Moonspeak Main? Weeaboo Central?

Urban Dictionary just can't keep up with you! What's a girl to do?

That, of course, crosses levels, out of the text. A better example would be that Gendo is in fact a Slitheen (http://www.cuttingsarchive.org.uk/newwho/season01/epguide01.htm#ep104). Or maybe it's Keel who fits that assertion better?

Well, if Shinji is half alien, that would provide another parallel to Asuka, who demonstrably has a reptiloid pedigree, as indicated by her ability to shoot blood from her eye. (Wait... So what species would that make her dad, again? I'm too lazy too look this one up.)

How about "Translation Hell"?

Hmm, possibly... I suppose I'll start it up and see what sort of overall form it takes. After those last two goddamned entries are done, that is. An example like kami does bring the word "Hell" to mind, surely enough.

ANF entry! ANF entry!

Mr. Tines

June 21st, 2006, 01:50 PM

And, incidentally, are images created for illustrative purposes "fan-art"? What connotates "okay" use and "bad" use? Reichu must know...

Technically, yes. But we can do this in a democratic fashion, you know, one person, one vote. And you're the one person.

Urban Dictionary just can't keep up with you! What's a girl to do?

"Lurk moar!" ... (4chan is a sadly corrupting influence).

(Wait... So what species would that make her dad, again? I'm too lazy too look this one up.)

A Reptoid Grey from Zeta Reticuli ... the Slitheen, btw, infiltrate by using the skins of their victims as disguises.

Ornette

June 21st, 2006, 01:59 PM

Urban Dictionary just can't keep up with you! What's a girl to do?
http://70.86.201.113/imageserv2/stilltemporary/PBF009BCWeeaboo.html
It was a wordfilter on /b/: wapanese->weeaboo. Wapanese being a gaijin that obsesses over japan (culture, women, etc).

edit: btw, the Perry Bible Fellowship comic strip is hilarious, it was where "weeaboo" came from originally, not having any meaning whatsoever, but on 4chan it's taken a life of its own. And every new years I swear to stop visiting that ghetto but always find myself ending up there when I have 2 minutes of free time and nothing to do.

Reichu

June 21st, 2006, 02:02 PM

Technically, yes. But we can do this in a democratic fashion, you know, one person, one vote. And you're the one person.
I'm confused...

"Lurk moar!" ... (4chan is a sadly corrupting influence).
I always DID think that 4chan was evil. It must be counter-corrupted by yet another evil in order for anything good to come of it!

A Reptoid Grey from Zeta Reticuli ... the Slitheen, btw, infiltrate by using the skins of their victims as disguises.
Ah, sort of like the Bugs in "MiB". ("Gendo, your skin is hanging off your bones...")

Mr. Tines

June 21st, 2006, 02:06 PM

I'm confused...

Making the decision as to "good" and "bad" can be made democratic. The allusion is to the various "democratic" "republics" around the world ... "<country> is a democracy, you know - one man, one vote; and <autocrat> is that man."

Reichu

June 21st, 2006, 08:11 PM

General molestation of Geektionary complete. Awaiting further axeage.

Degradation of mental processes: Proceeding...
Ego integrity at 52.4%
Estimated time before total A.T. Field collapse: Approximately 2 months.
Reichu Voodoo Dolls Sold: 57.6

Making the decision as to "good" and "bad" can be made democratic. The allusion is to the various "democratic" "republics" around the world ... "<country> is a democracy, you know - one man, one vote; and <autocrat> is that man."

So... basically... everyone gets a vote, but they are purely ceremonial because the only one that actually counts is mine due to dictatorial authority, unless drastic measures like kamikaze tactics are employed? :unsure:

***

EDIT: Oh yeah. And I tweaked a couple of things on the Reiquarium page so that I sound slightly less like an overconfident snob. (Maybe.)

Dr. Nick

June 22nd, 2006, 03:30 AM

but, wait, if fan-art is the grave of our credibility, what about all of the other fan-stuffs associated with the Geektionary? And, incidentally, are images created for illustrative purposes "fan-art"? What connotates "okay" use and "bad" use? Reichu must know...
It's not like I have any sort of plan here, but I would personally suggest that we use as little fan-art as possible if the context is, you know, serious, since fan-art tends to carry (more or less explicitly) a certain "amateur" label. I guess diagrams and such are okay, though, if we for example need to illustrate how much candy Matt Greenfield contains.

To further explain my point: The Geektionary's "shipping" entry contains a whole load of disturbing fan-art, and I think that's perfectly fine, because shipping is mostly a rather light-hearted pastime (some people think otherwise, of course, and they scare me). It's a humorous entry, thanks to those images. Also, I think it's quite apparent from the context that we didn't create the images, but they were done by those fans. (...Or were they?)

This is going to sound weird, but in Akira's case the combination of fanon name and a fan-art potrait might give the readers wrong kinds of vibes, because with a quick glance it looks like an original character introduction blurb from some fan-fic site. It's absurd, I know, but quick glances are what the internet is all about.

May I suggest that you put a full-sized Akira in the Omake instead, once the selected stories of Lorentz Keel's Chronicles of Male Seduction are put online? But of course, if you want to put the pic back into Geektionary, go ahead. There's a reason why minor nitpicks are minor; that means you can do whatever the hell you want with them.

How about "Translation Hell"?

But what if along comes an even more brain-crunching section that could use the word "hell" in its name? For example, "The Hell of Second Impact" for a supplemental page discussing what actually goes on during the 2I?

You've never seen that one before? 'Tis the result of a two-step process: (1) Replace front-GNR's face with front-GNK's; (2) replace rear-GNK with rear-GNR. A little Photoshop magic, and tada!

For some reason a Far Side strip named "young Victor Frankenstein" comes to my mind...

HeWhoPostsStuff

June 22nd, 2006, 06:05 AM

Reichu Voodoo Dolls Sold: 57.6
Who bought the 3/5 of a Reichu doll? ;)

For some reason a Far Side strip named "young Victor Frankenstein" comes to my mind...
If it's the one I'm thinking of, the subtitle is more along the lines of "A young Victor Frankenstein stays after school," or something like that...and yes, it's scary that I'd (think I) know that.

Magami No ER

June 22nd, 2006, 07:46 AM

May I suggest that you put a full-sized Akira in the Omake instead, once the selected stories of Lorentz Keel's Chronicles of Male Seduction are put online? But of course, if you want to put the pic back into Geektionary, go ahead. There's a reason why minor nitpicks are minor; that means you can do whatever the hell you want with them.

Considering I started the Adam's Embryo thread and orginally proposed such possiblilties ONLY for the hopes of doing a doujin("yeah, right" at this point), that sounds good to me. It's good that that thread at least brought up new disscussion concerning Second Impact, disscussion not as controversial as Akira himself.

Reichu

June 22nd, 2006, 09:02 AM

It's not like I have any sort of plan here, but I would personally suggest that we use as little fan-art as possible if the context is, you know, serious, since fan-art tends to carry (more or less explicitly) a certain "amateur" label. I guess diagrams and such are okay, though, if we for example need to illustrate how much candy Matt Greenfield contains.

What I was thinking of, in particular, is instances in which, you know, "a picture is worth a thousand words". So, for example, if the wacky Reichu theory about EVA-01's origins made it in, faux-academic illustrations would probably get the point across rather more effectively than trying to awkwardly describe it. That sort of thing.

This is going to sound weird, but in Akira's case the combination of fanon name and a fan-art potrait might give the readers wrong kinds of vibes, because with a quick glance it looks like an original character introduction blurb from some fan-fic site. It's absurd, I know, but quick glances are what the internet is all about.
Self-professedly gratuitous, too. The entry was axed down enough that it can't "accomodate" an image anyway.

May I suggest that you put a full-sized Akira in the Omake instead, once the selected stories of Lorentz Keel's Chronicles of Male Seduction are put online?
:lol: That's once a satisfactory full-sizer is executed (my favorite only exists as that tiny avatar) and I feel inspired enough to mosh the crap on my computer into one big, juicy, disclaimer-stamped emo-fest. But, yeah, if gratuitous fanartsy/ficcy stuff from FGC-people would go anywhere, omake would be it...

But what if along comes an even more brain-crunching section that could use the word "hell" in its name? For example, "The Hell of Second Impact" for a supplemental page discussing what actually goes on during the 2I?
I dunno... Maybe inspiration will strike later.

For some reason a Far Side strip named "young Victor Frankenstein" comes to my mind...
I'll need to comb my books for that one.

Who bought the 3/5 of a Reichu doll? ;)
Somebody who didn't want the rest. :ph34r:

Mr. Tines

June 22nd, 2006, 10:44 AM

But what if along comes an even more brain-crunching section that could use the word "hell" in its name?

Perhaps "Translation Purgatory"; or even more simply and directly: "Traduttore, traditore".

---

On the non-commentary fanac - if you're still paying for garden-of-tebel, Rachel, then there's a separate bucket to put things in.

Reichu

June 22nd, 2006, 11:00 AM

Perhaps "Translation Purgatory"; or even more simply and directly: "Traduttore, traditore".

I do not speak your Spanish!

On the non-commentary fanac - if you're still paying for garden-of-tebel, Rachel, then there's a separate bucket to put things in.

Yeah, but that means I'd have to set up a whole 'nother website just for a couple of things that are already Eva-related, and, like, that website is probably never going to happen anyway. I'm just squatting because I can.

I could always hide Akira in a ghetto.

Mr. Tines

June 22nd, 2006, 11:19 AM

I do not speak your Spanish!

That's Italian, actually; and quite a well known phrase: lit. "Translator, traitor" Originally coined with the difficulty of preserving meaning and implication between European languages in mind. Japanese is worse.

Reichu

June 22nd, 2006, 11:38 AM

That's Italian, actually
I figured. But I wanted to save "I do not speak your Italian!" for whenever you use a French phrase.

and quite a well known phrase: lit. "Translator, traitor"
Reichu is uncultured.

Originally coined with the difficulty of preserving meaning and implication between European languages in mind. Japanese is worse.

Hmm. Maybe I can find the Japanese version somewhere. ;)

EDIT: Ah, that was easy.

翻訳者は裏切り者。 = Hon'yakusha wa uragirimono.

Doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

Reichu

August 4th, 2006, 08:06 PM

I'm aware that it is August and still no Commentary. I've actually finally realized that I would probably rather die than continue doing things the same as before (just at a different forum), so a mere continuation simply will not happen. Once I get home, I will begin investigating the "options" for switching the site over to a totally different, and 452% more efficient (at least) system. There is no other way to exist. Seriously.

Soluzar

August 4th, 2006, 08:44 PM

The Femme-Kaworu is a small issue, laughably small, but it is so dangerous that it can bring the entire house of cards down. It is the commentary Antichrist, and I'm half serious about that.

I don't read this thread often, and I certainly don't take any part in this project beyond my currently extant comments, but I just have to say...

<3 <3 <3 Dr. Nick.

Reichu

August 4th, 2006, 09:00 PM

Please don't rub salt into wounds. It's not nice, mmkay?

Soluzar

August 4th, 2006, 09:12 PM

Please don't rub salt into wounds. It's not nice, mmkay?I can see how you'd take it that way. However, I'm simply stating my complete and total agreement with Dr. Nick, admittedly in an unconventional manner.

You can choose to view it as rubbing salt into the wound if you wish. I prefer to believe that Dr. Nick was acting in your best interests and in the best interests of your project, and for that, I admire him. I am quite certain that he has no personal ax to grind with you.

Our differences of opinion on the direction of NGE analysis pre-date this particular tiff you've had with the good Doctor, and when I happened to read this thread today, I was pleased to see that he has chosen to support what I have always seen as being the correct position in this matter.

In truth, he and I have discussed this matter briefly via email, but since the bulk of the posts in this thread are expressing support to some extent for the Reichu camp, I thought it would be rather nice to balance matters somewhat by casting my support firmly to the Dr. Nick camp.

I can only tell you that I have no reason to wish to rub salt into your wounds, since I do not bear you any ill-will. To the perforce limited extent that I am involved in this discussion, my only intent is to express my opinion on Dr. Nick's stated position.

Dr. Nick

August 4th, 2006, 10:03 PM

Please, Soluzar, don't bring up this old conflict anymore. I'm not especially proud of the things I posted back then.

@ Reichu: What is it this time? I don't want to downplay your obviously stressful captain's job, but we've seen "AAAh I can't do it!" announcements like this before.

Soluzar

August 4th, 2006, 10:10 PM

Please, Soluzar, don't bring up this old conflict anymore. I'm not especially proud of the things I posted back then.
As you wish, sir. I wasn't really aware that it was such an old conflict. It remains my opinion that you should be proud of those things, but this is the first time that I have felt whimsical enough to read the commentary thread since that time. You have both now heard my last word on the topic, except through private means of communication, if you desire.

I don't want to downplay your obviously stressful captain's job, but we've seen "AAAh I can't do it!" announcements like this before.Far be it from me to even attempt to put words in Reichu's mouth, but as long as I am here anyway, I should point out that this isn't an "I can't do it" announcement. This is an "I can't do it this way" announcement. I'd suspect that she has some plans for a better way to create the comment tables, which seems logical enough. If not that, then the next most logical candidate would be something regarding screenshots.

*disspears in a puff of apathy once more*

Reichu

August 5th, 2006, 01:07 PM

I should point out that this isn't an "I can't do it" announcement. This is an "I can't do it this way" announcement.
"You are correct, sir!"

I'd suspect that she has some plans for a better way to create the comment tables, which seems logical enough. If not that, then the next most logical candidate would be something regarding screenshots.
I was thinking more along the lines of "better way to do the entire project" -- meaning, a way in which things actually get done. This will involve switching over to a system where forward progress does not rely so completely on me, creation and modification is more spontaneous, and labor is cut down significantly. Basically, the only way FGC will ever grow beyond its current paltry state at anything faster than an abysmal snail's pace (= Speed of Doom) is if I, in essence, "give power to the people" (e.g. other contributors/participants). A Council of Elders could be in place, and all of the changes would liberate Reichu to do the things that Reichu must do.

So I'm thinking along the lines of a Wikimedia system tailored to suit our needs. OMF was working on some kind of improved commentary system a while back -- I'll have to ask him what that was all about.

Changing things completely is rather ambitious, and I don't know how we'll pull it off, but it will be lightyears ahead of what we have now. The site is a testament to my inability to handle so much responsibility. Time to open things up.

thewayneiac

August 6th, 2006, 03:16 PM

So I'm thinking along the lines of a Wikimedia system tailored to suit our needs.

Umm...

I hope that doesn't meant that people will be able to edit each other's posts and wreck havoc upon the project. Is Wikimedia anything like Wikipedia?

Reichu

August 6th, 2006, 05:28 PM

The "spontaneous editing" of pages has innumerable advantages over whatever the hell I'm doing right now. There is absolutely no reason why things would need to degrade into havoc. Anonymous users would not be allowed, only registered ones. There would be rather particular guidelines about contributing and editing (etc.), and violators (plus any damage dealt by them) could be easily dealt with.

Aside from the commentary itself, I have long wanted FGC to be host to a broad range of other resources. The ANF forum (and EMF, too, to a lesser degree) exemplifies the level of quality content that has been generated and posted over the years. Changing the FGC site's system would allow multiple individuals (including the body of trusted familiars) to post the same sort of content -- only compiled, ultimately, into organized pages/articles, rather than scattered across hundreds of posts in dozens of threads. So much material for the site could be eked from what already exists, and that is a task that many people other than myself can do.

Wikip/media doesn't create bad Eva pages -- people create bad Eva pages.