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	<title>Comments on: Ask John: Do Americans Hate Ugly Anime Characters?</title>
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		<title>By: AnimeNation Anime News Blog Blog Archive Ask John Do &#124; Wood TV Stand</title>
		<link>http://www.animenation.net/blog/2009/05/25/ask-john-do-americans-hate-ugly-anime-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-2775</link>
		<dc:creator>AnimeNation Anime News Blog Blog Archive Ask John Do &#124; Wood TV Stand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 21:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15997#comment-2775</guid>
		<description>[...] AnimeNation Anime News Blog Blog Archive Ask John Do   Posted by root 34 minutes ago (http://www.animenation.net)        Though i think i can stand it more than the pretentious crap from that i think that america is just as guilty of giving the spotlight to pretty movies tv comics etc leave a reply you must be logged in to post a comment animenation anime news blog is proud        Discuss&#160;  &#124;&#160; Bury &#124;&#160;    News &#124; AnimeNation Anime News Blog Blog Archive Ask John Do [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] AnimeNation Anime News Blog Blog Archive Ask John Do   Posted by root 34 minutes ago (<a href="http://www.animenation.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.animenation.net</a>)        Though i think i can stand it more than the pretentious crap from that i think that america is just as guilty of giving the spotlight to pretty movies tv comics etc leave a reply you must be logged in to post a comment animenation anime news blog is proud        Discuss&nbsp;  |&nbsp; Bury |&nbsp;    News | AnimeNation Anime News Blog Blog Archive Ask John Do [...]</p>
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		<title>By: AnimeNation Anime News Blog Blog Archive Ask John Do &#124; Paid Surveys</title>
		<link>http://www.animenation.net/blog/2009/05/25/ask-john-do-americans-hate-ugly-anime-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-2752</link>
		<dc:creator>AnimeNation Anime News Blog Blog Archive Ask John Do &#124; Paid Surveys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 16:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15997#comment-2752</guid>
		<description>[...] AnimeNation Anime News Blog Blog Archive Ask John Do   Posted by root 12 minutes ago (http://www.animenation.net)        So character design alone doesn 39 t necessarily ensure american success however the tenjho tenge anime overcame leave a reply you must be logged in to post a comment animenation anime news blog is proudly powered by wordpress        Discuss&#160;  &#124;&#160; Bury &#124;&#160;    News &#124; animenation anime news blog blog archive ask john do [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] AnimeNation Anime News Blog Blog Archive Ask John Do   Posted by root 12 minutes ago (<a href="http://www.animenation.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.animenation.net</a>)        So character design alone doesn 39 t necessarily ensure american success however the tenjho tenge anime overcame leave a reply you must be logged in to post a comment animenation anime news blog is proudly powered by wordpress        Discuss&nbsp;  |&nbsp; Bury |&nbsp;    News | animenation anime news blog blog archive ask john do [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron H. Bynum</title>
		<link>http://www.animenation.net/blog/2009/05/25/ask-john-do-americans-hate-ugly-anime-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-2745</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron H. Bynum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 01:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15997#comment-2745</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s partly an eye of the beholder argument, for me.

When Katsuhiro Otomo was asked why his female characters (in AKIRA) were designed atypically, he instinctively responded with: &quot;Are you saying that my girls are ugly?&quot;

Much of it is stylistic preference, but at its core, it&#039;s how much a viewer can suspend his disbelief or disinterest in the superficial qualities of a character until some component of the program or film&#039;s storytelling validates said character&#039;s facade.

There are plenty of narratives that make this difficult to acknowledge, and there are plenty of directors that make this a struggle with every stroke of the pencil (or digital pen, as is the case nowadays)... but it is my opinion that a solid character designer knows every psychosocial pressure point of the characters they mold, after their work is done, it&#039;s up to the director and the storyboard artists to determine how much time passes, and in what way time passes, until the viewer is granted leniency in deciphering why characters are the way they are and why they do the things that they do.

Is it to shape the program&#039;s worldview of how a type-a woman behaves? Is it to deceive a viewer into thinking a character is cool, when in reality, he&#039;s lost all hope in life?  Is it just to appear &quot;realistic,&quot; merely because the thematic intrigue of the story itself mirrors an alternate historical norm?  Is it to seduce an audience to suppose, even if for a split second, that every single character in the anime is pure fiction, except for maybe the dreams one lucky/unlucky little girl?  Or is it to wildly and uncharacteristically frame honest, adult emotions through the lens of a child who keeps asking himself &quot;where do the lies end and the truth begin?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s partly an eye of the beholder argument, for me.</p>
<p>When Katsuhiro Otomo was asked why his female characters (in AKIRA) were designed atypically, he instinctively responded with: &#8220;Are you saying that my girls are ugly?&#8221;</p>
<p>Much of it is stylistic preference, but at its core, it&#8217;s how much a viewer can suspend his disbelief or disinterest in the superficial qualities of a character until some component of the program or film&#8217;s storytelling validates said character&#8217;s facade.</p>
<p>There are plenty of narratives that make this difficult to acknowledge, and there are plenty of directors that make this a struggle with every stroke of the pencil (or digital pen, as is the case nowadays)&#8230; but it is my opinion that a solid character designer knows every psychosocial pressure point of the characters they mold, after their work is done, it&#8217;s up to the director and the storyboard artists to determine how much time passes, and in what way time passes, until the viewer is granted leniency in deciphering why characters are the way they are and why they do the things that they do.</p>
<p>Is it to shape the program&#8217;s worldview of how a type-a woman behaves? Is it to deceive a viewer into thinking a character is cool, when in reality, he&#8217;s lost all hope in life?  Is it just to appear &#8220;realistic,&#8221; merely because the thematic intrigue of the story itself mirrors an alternate historical norm?  Is it to seduce an audience to suppose, even if for a split second, that every single character in the anime is pure fiction, except for maybe the dreams one lucky/unlucky little girl?  Or is it to wildly and uncharacteristically frame honest, adult emotions through the lens of a child who keeps asking himself &#8220;where do the lies end and the truth begin?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: GATS</title>
		<link>http://www.animenation.net/blog/2009/05/25/ask-john-do-americans-hate-ugly-anime-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-2728</link>
		<dc:creator>GATS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 20:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15997#comment-2728</guid>
		<description>Yotaru: &quot;So you think that people will make some connection to the art (which I donâ€™t see)&quot; 

Import a copy of the Devil Man Amon manga, and you&#039;ll &quot;see&quot; better. ^_-

&quot;and jump to renting/buying the old shows?&quot;

Well, they&#039;re doing that with Tezuka, so it&#039;s all about patience on the others.

&quot;I watched the first volume, and while I wasnâ€™t disappointed in it, there wasnâ€™t much there.&quot;

Then that means it&#039;s perfect for today&#039;s fandom. =p

John: Sort of like how most people like Hanna Barbera, but John K. would rather gouge out his eyes than work on another one of that company&#039;s cartoons? ^_-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yotaru: &#8220;So you think that people will make some connection to the art (which I donâ€™t see)&#8221; </p>
<p>Import a copy of the Devil Man Amon manga, and you&#8217;ll &#8220;see&#8221; better. ^_-</p>
<p>&#8220;and jump to renting/buying the old shows?&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, they&#8217;re doing that with Tezuka, so it&#8217;s all about patience on the others.</p>
<p>&#8220;I watched the first volume, and while I wasnâ€™t disappointed in it, there wasnâ€™t much there.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then that means it&#8217;s perfect for today&#8217;s fandom. =p</p>
<p>John: Sort of like how most people like Hanna Barbera, but John K. would rather gouge out his eyes than work on another one of that company&#8217;s cartoons? ^_-</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.animenation.net/blog/2009/05/25/ask-john-do-americans-hate-ugly-anime-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-2724</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 18:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15997#comment-2724</guid>
		<description>YotaruVegeta does make a good point.  A large percentage of the character design style that we may think of as &quot;ugly&quot; hails from a certain time period in Japan, so it may have a bigger following in Japan because its contemporary fans grew up with it while it doesn&#039;t have any nostalgia value for Americans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YotaruVegeta does make a good point.  A large percentage of the character design style that we may think of as &#8220;ugly&#8221; hails from a certain time period in Japan, so it may have a bigger following in Japan because its contemporary fans grew up with it while it doesn&#8217;t have any nostalgia value for Americans.</p>
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		<title>By: YotaruVegeta</title>
		<link>http://www.animenation.net/blog/2009/05/25/ask-john-do-americans-hate-ugly-anime-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-2721</link>
		<dc:creator>YotaruVegeta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 17:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15997#comment-2721</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll disagree with some points of GATS&#039;s uh, &quot;eccentric&quot; post. So you think that people will make some connection to the art (which I don&#039;t see) between Death Note and devil man/lady and jump to renting/buying the old shows? Good luck for that.

Going to the topic, I think that people don&#039;t give something like Air Master a shot because maybe they don&#039;t like it? I watched the first volume, and while I wasn&#039;t disappointed in it, there wasn&#039;t much there.

I think that the person posing the question is tha all&#039;s fair in what visiblity all anime are offered initially. I think that america is just as guilty  of giving the spotlight to &quot;pretty&quot; movies, tv, comics, etc, while some great stuff may be cult or people might not get past the art

It&#039;s also funny that the writer mentions Matsumoto, when most people I&#039;ve heard or read mention his works if they are of a certain age. Ditto for Nagai Gou (Go Nagai, as I&#039;ve heard it). I loved the shit out of Cyborg 009, but that art is an aquired taste for sure. It&#039;s a &quot;childish&quot; (not even the right word) style but the show was kind of more mature. It also reminds me of something from the 70s to 80s.

So really, you&#039;re talking about styles that speak to a certain time period. Do kids like ANYTHING their parents did? Not a lot, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll disagree with some points of GATS&#8217;s uh, &#8220;eccentric&#8221; post. So you think that people will make some connection to the art (which I don&#8217;t see) between Death Note and devil man/lady and jump to renting/buying the old shows? Good luck for that.</p>
<p>Going to the topic, I think that people don&#8217;t give something like Air Master a shot because maybe they don&#8217;t like it? I watched the first volume, and while I wasn&#8217;t disappointed in it, there wasn&#8217;t much there.</p>
<p>I think that the person posing the question is tha all&#8217;s fair in what visiblity all anime are offered initially. I think that america is just as guilty  of giving the spotlight to &#8220;pretty&#8221; movies, tv, comics, etc, while some great stuff may be cult or people might not get past the art</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also funny that the writer mentions Matsumoto, when most people I&#8217;ve heard or read mention his works if they are of a certain age. Ditto for Nagai Gou (Go Nagai, as I&#8217;ve heard it). I loved the shit out of Cyborg 009, but that art is an aquired taste for sure. It&#8217;s a &#8220;childish&#8221; (not even the right word) style but the show was kind of more mature. It also reminds me of something from the 70s to 80s.</p>
<p>So really, you&#8217;re talking about styles that speak to a certain time period. Do kids like ANYTHING their parents did? Not a lot, really.</p>
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		<title>By: GATS</title>
		<link>http://www.animenation.net/blog/2009/05/25/ask-john-do-americans-hate-ugly-anime-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-2718</link>
		<dc:creator>GATS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 22:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animenation.net/blog/?p=15997#comment-2718</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s not entirely accurate a letter. Cutey(ie?) Honey and even Devil Lady have a bit of a following here. But yeah, in the case of Go Nagai, American fans are turned off by sideburns nowadays, and they prefer androgynous and asexual men like Aaron Carter. [Did you hear how he beat Shaq? =p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oITCug7v7Q ]  But there&#039;s always hope, as that Twilight guy is the scruffiest we&#039;ve gotten in recent years, while Shia&#039;s the first successful teen idol with a trimmed Jew-fro; plus the screening of the LA Cromartie at AX actually had a lot of people; so maybe those Aryan emo elves are slowly going out of fashion. 
Plus, Death Note ripped the hell out of Devil Man&#039;s artwork; so eventually, people are going to make that connection and give the original a shot. I wish Go Nagai didn&#039;t allegedly cancel Verotik editions of the manga, though, because those were friggin&#039; awesome. The only singles I would have paid for back then, too. 

As for Ishinomori, well, I&#039;m guessing the real reason Cyborg 009 didn&#039;t take off as well as it should have is because Tokyopop published it in the the chronological order of how it was published in Japan, rather than the chronological order of the story, and it&#039;s really confusing, since certain characters show up who don&#039;t make actual appearances until later on in the series. The American edition of Astro Boy suffers from a similar problem, but since that series has a bigger fanbase, it could get away with that format. [Though if Tokyopop was a smarter company, it would have slapped a &quot;From the creator of the Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past manga&quot; on the cover of 009, since that&#039;s the one Ishinomori manga which has been well received in the U.S.] 

OTOH, that 009-1 thing seems to have done ok for ADV and FUNimation, which makes me think someone should license the manga for it, and see if it works out any better. The anime for 009 would have definitely benefited from a similar modernization. I don&#039;t think making it &quot;pretty&quot; would have made a difference, since Zoom, the closest thing we&#039;ll get to a Hollywood 009 movie until Peter Chung&#039;s version, had some good-looking actors, and it still bombed. What would have helped is if it didn&#039;t look like something &quot;Saturday Morning Watchmen&quot;[Youtube it.] would be parodying. The Japanese don&#039;t care, since they&#039;ve been going for those types of team shows since Gatchaman, but American fans like their heroes to stand out a bit more. I think that&#039;s where 009-1 succeeded better.

As for Matsumoto&#039;s Tetsuro, well, if he&#039;s good enough to be &quot;recycled&quot; into a South Park character, he&#039;s good enough for anime fans. And anyone who doesn&#039;t think his women are hot doesn&#039;t have any taste in women, period. Still, the fact that FUNimation just picked up his classics GE: 999 and Harlock indicates there is an audience for his older work. I think the problem with how his stuff was sold here before was that companies were releasing the remakes and variants of his older anime, and so it ended up confusing newer fans who might not necessarily be familiar with the characters. 

Finally, there&#039;s Air Master. While it&#039;s true the women on the cover weren&#039;t the most attractive of the bunch, I think the fact that the covers didn&#039;t exactly let you know what to expect from the show is what hurt it. Ikki Tousen makes it clear it&#039;s an action/comedy series. Air Master&#039;s covers just feature a pissed-off girl on them, which isn&#039;t exactly bankable here. Also, to be fair, Oh! Great&#039;s not that &quot;great&quot; here, in terms of popularity, if a &quot;PG version&quot;[as Toren Smith puts it.] of Tenjho Tenge can&#039;t cross over to shojo fans. Air Gear is probably more successful in the U.S. because of its similarity to typical shonen fare which is popular here than the actual artwork.  

Oh, and last time I checked, Peach-Pit is not actually popular, or RozenMaiden and DearS would have been enough to save Geneon. Plus, if hot chicks were enough to make anime and manga and hit, then Masuzaku Katsura would be bigger in the U.S. than Ken Akamatsu. 

However, I will agree with John that some &quot;ugly&quot; art doesn&#039;t grab me, which is probably why I never bought into Umezu. I mean, his stuff would have done great if there was still a market for horror comics, like during the EC Days, or even horror novels, like during the Goosebumps days; but it&#039;s sort of cheesy by today&#039;s standards of torture porn. [Though I think I can stand it more than the pretentious crap from that Uzumaki author, and despite its better artwork, it doesn&#039;t seem to do much better for Viz.] 

As for Initial D, it seems to be doing alright enough here, if Justin Lin can use it for inspiration for Tokyo Drift. The likely reason it never hit big here was that it was a guy-oriented show with little female involvement. Ping Pong Club bombed, because it came out of the tail end of the Beavis and Butthead craze. Dead Leaves disappointed, because it looked like one of those arthouse things they used to tack onto an American animation anthology in the 80s. I think Wolf&#039;s Rain did well because it successfully cashed in on Bebop. Afro Samurai&#039;s appeal had more to do with Ninja Scroll-esque violence than anything else. As for Shin-chan, if you recall, the manga was a disaster for Comics One; and I&#039;m betting that was because people thought it was a kiddie comic, because of the covers, rather than a dirty comedy. The FUNi re-writes of the show are still close to the main ideas of the anime; the revisions just have more blatant innuendo than the Japanese versions. But I&#039;m guessing that the reason Shin-Chan became popular is because the re-writes have more originality and energy to them than any recent episode of the Simpsons, even though the latter show actually has a better budget.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s not entirely accurate a letter. Cutey(ie?) Honey and even Devil Lady have a bit of a following here. But yeah, in the case of Go Nagai, American fans are turned off by sideburns nowadays, and they prefer androgynous and asexual men like Aaron Carter. [Did you hear how he beat Shaq? =p <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oITCug7v7Q" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oITCug7v7Q</a> ]  But there&#8217;s always hope, as that Twilight guy is the scruffiest we&#8217;ve gotten in recent years, while Shia&#8217;s the first successful teen idol with a trimmed Jew-fro; plus the screening of the LA Cromartie at AX actually had a lot of people; so maybe those Aryan emo elves are slowly going out of fashion.<br />
Plus, Death Note ripped the hell out of Devil Man&#8217;s artwork; so eventually, people are going to make that connection and give the original a shot. I wish Go Nagai didn&#8217;t allegedly cancel Verotik editions of the manga, though, because those were friggin&#8217; awesome. The only singles I would have paid for back then, too. </p>
<p>As for Ishinomori, well, I&#8217;m guessing the real reason Cyborg 009 didn&#8217;t take off as well as it should have is because Tokyopop published it in the the chronological order of how it was published in Japan, rather than the chronological order of the story, and it&#8217;s really confusing, since certain characters show up who don&#8217;t make actual appearances until later on in the series. The American edition of Astro Boy suffers from a similar problem, but since that series has a bigger fanbase, it could get away with that format. [Though if Tokyopop was a smarter company, it would have slapped a "From the creator of the Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past manga" on the cover of 009, since that's the one Ishinomori manga which has been well received in the U.S.] </p>
<p>OTOH, that 009-1 thing seems to have done ok for ADV and FUNimation, which makes me think someone should license the manga for it, and see if it works out any better. The anime for 009 would have definitely benefited from a similar modernization. I don&#8217;t think making it &#8220;pretty&#8221; would have made a difference, since Zoom, the closest thing we&#8217;ll get to a Hollywood 009 movie until Peter Chung&#8217;s version, had some good-looking actors, and it still bombed. What would have helped is if it didn&#8217;t look like something &#8220;Saturday Morning Watchmen&#8221;[Youtube it.] would be parodying. The Japanese don&#8217;t care, since they&#8217;ve been going for those types of team shows since Gatchaman, but American fans like their heroes to stand out a bit more. I think that&#8217;s where 009-1 succeeded better.</p>
<p>As for Matsumoto&#8217;s Tetsuro, well, if he&#8217;s good enough to be &#8220;recycled&#8221; into a South Park character, he&#8217;s good enough for anime fans. And anyone who doesn&#8217;t think his women are hot doesn&#8217;t have any taste in women, period. Still, the fact that FUNimation just picked up his classics GE: 999 and Harlock indicates there is an audience for his older work. I think the problem with how his stuff was sold here before was that companies were releasing the remakes and variants of his older anime, and so it ended up confusing newer fans who might not necessarily be familiar with the characters. </p>
<p>Finally, there&#8217;s Air Master. While it&#8217;s true the women on the cover weren&#8217;t the most attractive of the bunch, I think the fact that the covers didn&#8217;t exactly let you know what to expect from the show is what hurt it. Ikki Tousen makes it clear it&#8217;s an action/comedy series. Air Master&#8217;s covers just feature a pissed-off girl on them, which isn&#8217;t exactly bankable here. Also, to be fair, Oh! Great&#8217;s not that &#8220;great&#8221; here, in terms of popularity, if a &#8220;PG version&#8221;[as Toren Smith puts it.] of Tenjho Tenge can&#8217;t cross over to shojo fans. Air Gear is probably more successful in the U.S. because of its similarity to typical shonen fare which is popular here than the actual artwork.  </p>
<p>Oh, and last time I checked, Peach-Pit is not actually popular, or RozenMaiden and DearS would have been enough to save Geneon. Plus, if hot chicks were enough to make anime and manga and hit, then Masuzaku Katsura would be bigger in the U.S. than Ken Akamatsu. </p>
<p>However, I will agree with John that some &#8220;ugly&#8221; art doesn&#8217;t grab me, which is probably why I never bought into Umezu. I mean, his stuff would have done great if there was still a market for horror comics, like during the EC Days, or even horror novels, like during the Goosebumps days; but it&#8217;s sort of cheesy by today&#8217;s standards of torture porn. [Though I think I can stand it more than the pretentious crap from that Uzumaki author, and despite its better artwork, it doesn't seem to do much better for Viz.] </p>
<p>As for Initial D, it seems to be doing alright enough here, if Justin Lin can use it for inspiration for Tokyo Drift. The likely reason it never hit big here was that it was a guy-oriented show with little female involvement. Ping Pong Club bombed, because it came out of the tail end of the Beavis and Butthead craze. Dead Leaves disappointed, because it looked like one of those arthouse things they used to tack onto an American animation anthology in the 80s. I think Wolf&#8217;s Rain did well because it successfully cashed in on Bebop. Afro Samurai&#8217;s appeal had more to do with Ninja Scroll-esque violence than anything else. As for Shin-chan, if you recall, the manga was a disaster for Comics One; and I&#8217;m betting that was because people thought it was a kiddie comic, because of the covers, rather than a dirty comedy. The FUNi re-writes of the show are still close to the main ideas of the anime; the revisions just have more blatant innuendo than the Japanese versions. But I&#8217;m guessing that the reason Shin-Chan became popular is because the re-writes have more originality and energy to them than any recent episode of the Simpsons, even though the latter show actually has a better budget.</p>
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